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#1
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#2
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![]() Well that's certainly an added value.
It reminds me of what Dennis Miller said: "I like Palin because so many people I don't respect hate her".
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"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#3
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![]() Palin is adored because of how deeply she's hated, and that she has played on this. I don't think she's made her various gaffes on purpose, but she's been purposefully coy about running for President. She's put herself out there in the big painted bus, constantly being attention-whorish, and she's been making a mint from it all.
I used to listen to Mr. Miller's show, but that was one of the statements he made that caused me to stop. At first he was all like, I want the show to be a salon, I want it to be a forum for ideas. At some point it changed, and the Palin point was evidence that he was changing to being "tribe against tribe" and no longer about ideas. At first he was engaging the callers that disagreed with him. At some point he started to mock the callers that disagreed with him. It was a very disappointing moment for me, I shut his show off and feel very good about that decision. Last edited by Undertoad; 08-21-2011 at 02:29 PM.. |
#4
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![]() Does Obama deserve to be re-elected? Civil liberties, really, that's what's most important, 2011-2012? I'm sure a third party candidate will be coming along that will suit your needs, and the other 0.0009% of voters.
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#5
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![]() Way to put the national-interest of your country and wellbeing of its citizens first, Miller. And the rest of those nearsighted "conservatives".
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#6
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![]() Precisely, TGGP (see my late edit)
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#7
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![]() The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's why we supported Saddam Hussein, the Tallaban, the Shah of Iran, Noriega, and endless other examples. Sometimes it's the only thing to do, as in the alliance with Stalin in WWII, and courting China to weaken the USSR (though there's usually a big cost), but I think the previous examples show that, more often, what you get is less than nothing.
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#8
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![]() Conor has always intrigued me in his apparent cluelessness on many issues, I'm grateful to him for finally acknowledging that the reason is other than the 'extreme security' reaction to 9/11 he really doesn't care, especially about domestic issues. That's a lot not to care about. From now on hopefully he will resist from commenting on these topics is he isn't interested enough to learn the facts or ramifications. That little snippet around the 20 min mark explained alot. What an astounding lack of curiosity, I wonder if (in a moment of honest relfection) he would call it 'Palin-like'.
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#9
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One of the best ones was when one of the refs (who looked just like Alfred Hitchcock) stepped out on the field and Miller said, in that Hitchcockian voice, Good evening! This might have been too subtle for the Budweiser crowd. Anyway, I have noticed a difference in him lately. He just ain't as funny anymore.
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"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#10
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__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#11
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![]() I probably won't be voting for Obama for the exact reasons Adam gives as to what is most important in voting for President. A person is voting for a party when they vote for president, and should vote for the party that best represents their values. (Or, as in my case, against the party that least represents them)
However, I do think Obama deserves reelection for the exact reason that Conor thinks he doesn't. Conor does seem clueless on the threat of terrorism. People gave Bush a pass on 9/11 happening on his watch because nothing like it had ever happened before; Americans were so surprised most don't hold it against Bush for being surprised as well. No other president can be forgiven for being surprised. If something similar to 9/11, or worse (terrorists have the will and seek the means to do much worse), were to happen on Obama's watch, not only would he not be forgiven, the Democratic party would not be forgiven for a long time. That's the political consideration that Obama owes to those Americans on the left who he represents. But a far more important consideration is his primary job in protecting the American people. He could say anything to the loony left regarding national security in campaigning, but when he actually got in office, he has to do what he has to do. And he's done it well for the most part. Domestic policy wise, he's just been unlucky with the economy, and I appreciate the fact that he's reacted much more temperately then the base of his party would have liked. That's responsible leadership. |
#12
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![]() I know there are many who disagree but I think pushing radical change as embodied in ACA in a time of such economic uncertainty was... i can't think of a nice word.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#13
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However, I don't think it is, in the historical context of what the American left is all about, all that radical. I'm also a little skeptical that ACA is a significant factor in holding back the economy, although I'm sure it's contributed some. I think when (if) it goes into effect, the drag will have some significance as all these government takeovers of the economy do. With this in mind, while I completely oppose ACA, I really can't hold it against him as an incompetent move on his part. Those guys won an election, its the sort of thing we can expect. When judging a left wing president's competence, I have to cut him a little slack for having to work with the handicap of his and, (more often), his constituents' ideology. This is the reason I think Clinton, overall, was a good president. Obama still has a year (and perhaps more) to go, so it may be to early too say this, but as it stands now, I'll probably always regard him as a good president. |
#14
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#15
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![]() How dare he. Osama is not dead, he's still alive and kicking the ass of the United States. He won the War on Terror when Obama decided that Americans should not be able to travel without being groped, sacrificing liberty for an illusion of security.
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#16
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It may not be fair for current Dems, but they do have the influence they gave all those hippies in past decades to blame. They should be thanking Obama because he's made some progress in reversing this damage to the brand. |
#17
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![]() Adam Serwer thinks that finding it strange that people would oppose vaccines for their children makes him a liberal. No, it makes him just not a complete moron. Friedersdorf makes good devil's advocate arguments against the HPV-vaccine, but of course, these reasonable objections were not the objections of the religious right. The religious right was upset that young people unlucky enough to be born to fundies, who had sex, could not be punished (presumably by God) with HPV and cervical cancer anymore. This "I WANT MY CHILDREN TO GET CANCER IF THEY HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE"-attitude is reprehensible, and it's evil.
In other words, it's typical of the religious right. |
#18
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Alternatively, profiling could be instituted. 8-year-old children generally don't commit terrorist acts, even if they are Muslims. On the other hand, a 24-year-old named Muhammad Abu Saif ad Din bin Zarqawi? Why don't you have a seat right over there? Of course, Barack Hussein Obama refuses to institute such a policy, because under such a policy, a man named Barack Hussein Obama would be the first to be singled out. No, let's grope little children instead, and humiliate 95-year-old women with adult diapers. For something that has either no discernible or significant effect. Quote:
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#19
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#20
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![]() I'm appalled that, in their discussion of HPV vaccination as a culture wars issue, neither Serwer nor Friedersdorf acknowledge that the rationale for the vaccine is to decrease the prevelance of cervical cancer, almost all of which is associated with HPV infection. That's what it's all about! Whether acknowledging this would have influenced the discussion I do not know (I would hope that it would), but failure to acknowledge it suggests an indifference to women's health of which both parties should be ashamed.
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#21
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But if you've paid attention, that is not my argument. Come on, don't make it so easy for me. |
#22
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Except, what about those hundreds of millions of Muslims who aren't Arabs and don't have Arabic names? |
#23
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Of course, this isn't enough. Profiling of Middle-easterners and people from Islamic countries is also necessary, unless it is clear that they are not Muslims (like being named John). Also, notorious Muslims should be searched more thoroughly, even if they are named Cat Stevens. This won't be a perfect system, some Muslims will slip through it, and some decent people who have abandoned the religion of peace will face treatment they should not get, but it sure beats the current system of groping little children, to prevent Muslims from being offended. Last edited by apple; 08-21-2011 at 08:00 PM.. |
#24
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__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#25
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But more to the point, in addition the environmentalist believes that the damage done to human beings through flying greatly outweighs any risk of being blown up that TSA gropings mitigate. And yet those same gropings give passengers the false impression that flying on planes is safe and encourages more flying, when it actually has huge potential to destroy the planet and humans. Last edited by whburgess; 08-21-2011 at 08:13 PM.. |
#26
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So no, I'm definitely not toning down the rhetoric against the people who want children to get cancer. |
#27
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It's remarkable how many excuses secular conservatives will make for fundies. It's really sad how some sell out rationality, reason and reality to defend the indefensible. I have vowed never to become the tool of anyone, which is why I will criticize everyone, when there is reason to criticize. |
#28
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They were attempting to give the rationale for opposing it. |
#29
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Well, you can criticize people for their motives in the positions they take, or you can criticize them for their facts. You really should stick with the facts and stay agnostic on peoples motives. Its easy to do this when you actually care to listen to how they express their motives rather then impute your own to them. Then you don't make ludicrous statements that only a moron or extreme bigot would believe -- such as: Fundies want their kids to get cancer if they have sex. I actually don't think you believe this, so am still curious as to why you make statements like this. |
#30
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I find such fundies to be absolutely reprehensible. Does that make me a bigot? Then I am a bigot! Telling the truth about people makes one a bigot these days. And I have told nothing but the truth. |
#31
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They believe that giving children the impression the authorities in their life are assuming they're having sex is the same thing as giving them permission to have sex. Quote:
I'd encourage you to be more diligent in seeking to understand how people understand their own motives and less eager to impute the worse motives to them because you disagree with their position. Quote:
You're half way there to understanding the motives of some of those who opposed this.. All you need to do now is understand their assessment of the risk of a 6th grader getting cancer without the HPV vaccination in comparison with their assessment of the risk in letting children believe it is assumed, and therefore permitted, that they are engaging in risky behavior. |
#32
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#33
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![]() Let's test the proposition that you are not a bigot. You wrote "Islam is not severable from Islamic barbarity. People will have to stop being Muslims, for Islamic barbarity to dry up." You also wrote:
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Last edited by ohreally; 08-21-2011 at 10:10 PM.. |
#34
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![]() Conor's standard for "caring" about civil liberties in this segment is just nonsense. He suggests that if liberals really cared about dovish foreign policy and civil liberties then they would be willing to vote for Ron Paul against Barack Obama. That's crazy talk. Ron Paul is adamantly opposed to basically every other liberal value apart from foreign policy, and radically so. If I asked Conor if he vote for a candidate that agreed with Ron Paul on national security and civil liberties while promising to institute a UK-style socialized health system, universal pre-K education, cap-and-trade, government-funded abortions, a nationwide handgun ban, and a half-dozen other left-wing policies, his refusal to support that candidate would hardly make his positions insincerely held.
Beyond this point, I found the whole civil liberties discussion frustrating because it focused so exclusively on the Presidency. Presidents will never reliably restrain the power of their own office. Even someone with a strong prior position about executive power will be a lot more comfortable with it when he/she is the one exercising that power. The place where we need action on these issues continues to be Congress. If Congressmen were to demonstrate any concern for their own relative power, much less abstract concerns about civil liberty and due process, we'd be in a much less worrying place than we are now. |
#35
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![]() Of course, the vaccine itself is just microbes, it transmits no messages.
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Also, I would have preferred that such an initiative take place at a young enough age (assuming the vaccine is permanent--I don't know), say kindergarten, that kids are less sexual, or at an older age where the risk of sex is higher, like 10th grade. 6th grade seems to me the least optimal time to do this, even if I didn't oppose it. Of course I'm giving my own preference--I realize I'm possibly out of sync with every focus group ever assembled. |
#36
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![]() So I just read this. What do you think are some things that the American left is all about that are more radical? And have any of those things been passed into law?
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith |
#37
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As for the matter of core identity, the mere fact that you think that it's part of the "core identity" of people is wholly irrelevant. Some people's core identity includes Nazism, that of NAMBLA-members includes child molestation, that does not mean that they should not be asked to give it up. Quote:
I don't care if you call me a bigot. I've long passed the point where I cared about what leftists think about me. Even many years ago, when I only denounced Islamic radicals (which I thought were radicals, as opposed to mainstream followers of Muhammad), leftists called me a bigot and an Islamophobe. So it doesn't really matter what one says, when one's opinions are inconvenient to the leftist, the leftist will call one an Islamophobe and a bigot. |
#38
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Medicare is as radical. Unemployment Benefits is as radical. I think giving people free money with no controls or requirements on their part is probably more radical. This has happened quite a bit in the past, and maybe still to some degree today. Some versions of health care that have been proposed from the left are more radical then what they passed. What was passed was something largely comparable to what the guy I'm supporting for President, Romney, passed in his state. I do agree with Romney that passing it in a state is a great deal less radical then on the federal level, but other then that, not much different. |
#39
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What the most wretched of men believe is of no concern to me, especially considering the fact that it is always something extremely stupid and unreasonable. I concern myself with the reasonable objections of reasonable and intelligent people. Quote:
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Like I said, you're too nice of a guy, which is why you are incapable of understanding the motives of people who are not decent. Some people always try to find excuses for wicked people. After all, it can't be that some people are wicked, unreasonable and stupid. My friend, if only you knew... |
#40
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They don't believe any such thing. They believe young folks damage themselves and others with premarital sex. Some of them believe it because this is the way they interpret their own experiences with premarital sex. Others because they believe the Bible is against it. Others believe for other reasons. I don't have a problem with it and don't understand why you do. |
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