Go Back   Bloggingheads Community > Life, the Universe and Everything
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Life, the Universe and Everything Post comments about everything else here.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 01-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Matt Yglesias: Creating Jobs by Cutting Wages

Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
Weren't you just upset with me for inferring that you were claiming that the liberal version, described by Haidt, was deficient? I am honestly trying to figure out how the above isn't what I inferred you to be saying, or why you were bothered that I thought you were saying the Haidt model showed a deficiency in liberals.
Ah, coming around to understanding the schizophrenogenic mind!

Let's see how the Nazi phenomenon could be analyzed under Haidt's moral foundations:

His Moral Foundations Theory looks at the way morality varies between cultures and identifies five fundamental moral values shared to a greater or lesser degree by different societies and individuals.[2] These are:

Care for others, protecting them from harm. (He also referred to this dimension as Harm.)
Fairness, Justice, treating others equally.
Loyalty to your group, family, nation.(He also referred to this dimension as Ingroup.)
Respect for tradition and legitimate authority. (He also referred to this dimension as Authority.)
Purity, avoiding disgusting things, foods, actions.

Haidt found that Americans who identified as liberals tend to value care and fairness considerably higher than loyalty, respect, and purity. Self-identified conservative Americans value all five values more equally, though at a lower level across the five than the liberal concern for care and fairness. Both groups gave care the highest over-all weighting, but conservatives valued fairness the lowest, whereas liberals valued purity the lowest. Similar results were found across the political spectrum in other countries.[3]
1. Care for others, protecting them from harm: Sending millions of people to be tortured, mistreated and killed in concentration camps would be a profound violation of this principle. Unlikely that a liberal morality could possible support it.

On the other hand, it isn't unlikely that conservatives will find good reasons to violate this principle: for example torture is justified under certain circumstances, collateral damage in wars is also justified. Both are situations that liberals tend to reject.

2. Fairness, Justice, treating others equally: identifying a group of innocent people by the millions and punishing in the most horrendous way, would violate any principle of justice or equality. Highly unlikely that a liberal morality would support it.

On the other hand, conservatives justify treating certain groups differently, for example discrimination against certain groups: gays and lesbians, immigrants, different race or origin.

3. Loyalty to your group, family, nation: obviously Nazis relied heavily on their nationalism and putting their race and ethnicity above all. It was the perfect example of loyalty and adoration to one's own group. Liberals are constantly accused of their lack of patriotism because they always tend to see how the situation is from the other's perspective.

Conservatives have made a caricature of nationalism and patriotism by elevating the American symbols (and military, constitution, institutions and culture) to a quasi religious relevance.

4. Respect for tradition and legitimate authority. The Nazi movement embraced a return to tradition, and their sense of legitimate authority lead them to their blind pursuit of their goals while ignoring the horrors they were responsible for.

The link between conservatives and respect for tradition is too obvious to explain.

5. Purity, avoiding disgusting things, foods, actions: Nazis are the perfect example of the exaggeration and corruption of the sense of purity, in their case their concept of racial/cultural purity. Similarly conservatives elevate certain values to a level of sanctity where they become above any form of challenge or questioning. They tend to find sacred values as an extension (often) of religious values.

Liberals, although they have their own version of purity (obsessions with organic food, uncontaminated environment and so on), tend to be less concerned with sacredness and seeking purity in actions (as Haidt's studies showed).

So, there's no such link between Nazi like phenomenon and liberalism at all, and even less so according to Haidt's ideas. That erroneous concept seems to align more with Jonah Goldberg's ludicrous ideas, although I would rather not comment on that because I haven't read his book, and I don't intend to.
Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.