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  #1  
Old 01-29-2009, 10:49 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default The Pinkie Finger Prism

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  #2  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:11 PM
BornAgainDemocrat BornAgainDemocrat is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Robert Wright is so funny!
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:54 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The Hand Outstretched

The progressive/liberal diavloggers like Obama, the conservatives don't, and the independents are hopefull and giving him a chance. I don't see how that makes this a "Pro Obama site." Or how this, in any way reflects a transgression on Bob's part. Considering President Obama currently has a 70% approval rating I would say that this site is merely representative of reality. Bob has never seemed to try to make this site lean in any direction or another, aside from being intellectual and a place for great discussions.
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:41 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Hand Outstretched

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
And I'll add that I see a real effort to be more civil from our one formerly banned member who must really struggle to keep things on an even keel. Our most prolific commenter appears to be heading in the other direction, not that I think most notice or care.
Same old gutless kidneystones. Loves to snipe, too chicken to name names.

Can't say your return is likely to help the level of civility. You back to spread more lies about Obama, or have you something new to be deranged about?
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:35 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Bob said it without realizing it, "a day of reckoning has to come".

Watching the reckoning here in CA as tax refunds are stalled and the unions fight the governor who is trying to apply common sense.

Obama's stimulus package really stimulates nothing more than democratic constituents, the time-honored practice of buying votes.

Glad to hear Mickey was able to enjoy himself in Washington as democrats also continued their time-honored practice of flouting the rules they demand of everyone else. What was it, 600 private jets? Classic.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:36 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Bob, while I applaud your effort to maintain (or restore) a more civilized tone to the comments section, I don't quite understand your emphasis on the evil of sarcasm. Sarcasm is a big part of BHTV as with anything else in our culture. Ironically, you use sarcasm probably better than anyone. While everything can be overdone to a detrimental level, I haven't noticed a particular increase in sarcastic comments on this forum. There have always been sarcastic comments. Many times they are funny. Often times not. While I agree that we commentors should try to be somewhat respectful of the diavloggers (after all, they are the ones that we love to watch) I think you are overstating the threat of a little derisive humor and snark. Just to use an example close to me, when someone like David Frum makes statements about the irresponsibility of sending the wrong message to the Muslim world, the most obvious (and my opinion, most relevant) response would be to make a quick sarcastic reference to the "axis of evil" phrase (which just MAY have had some adverse effects on American interests). To me, this sort of thing is infinitely preferable to commentors making non-sarcastic, delusional accusations that so and so is an anti-semite or other nasty slanders. I guess I've just never understood why sarcasm is so frowned upon, when it can be used cleverly and effectively to sometimes make very subtle points in a more entertaining fashion. Anyways, I will try to tone it down, but if you keep having people like Bob Kagan on, I can't promise how well I will be able to stick to that goal.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:05 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
[...]
Very well said, Uncle Eb. As a fellow lover of (good) sarcasm, I second your response to Bob.

I'll add that sarcasm directed at a diavlogger seems entirely within the boundaries, particularly when one considers how offensive or at least disrespectful are some of the things said by some diavloggers, how lackluster an effort some others put in, and how tiresome it is to keep hearing the same things by those in a third set.

As to why we might watch people we don't like, Bob, I'd say first that I, personally, do have a skip list. I may occasionally watch someone on that list because of the other diavlogger. I continue to watch some others whom I dislike because I would like to push back against the message they're trying to spread, however meager my efforts might be.

As for the inter-commenter strife, I'd just advise you to ignore it. As far as I can tell, it always dies away on its own. If you're worried what this might look like to potential new diavloggers, I suggest you point them at places where other diavloggers have themselves weighed in -- I'd say polite responses are obtained more than 95% of the time in these cases, and that this is a far, far better measure of the level of respect the audience has for the diavloggers. The commenter-on-commenter stuff, when it's in the gutter, rarely has anything to do with the diavloggers or the diavlogs' content.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:15 AM
Bobby G Bobby G is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

It's hard to respond to sarcasm. It's often a conversation-stopper. And of course sometimes it's mistaken for non-sarcasm.
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:51 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
It's hard to respond to sarcasm. It's often a conversation-stopper.
True. On the other hand, this may well be the intent, or at least, the challenge is along the lines of, "What you've said is so ridiculous, it doesn't dignify anything other than mockery in response. You're free to restate if you think you had a worthwhile point."

Quote:
And of course sometimes it's mistaken for non-sarcasm.
Yes, print does have this problem.
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:36 PM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default What is a Neocon + I love BhTV

1) Neocon has morphed into a shorthand for someone who has an interventionist foreign policy, was on the right and supported the Iraq war. But I think the old meaning of Neocon is someone who thinks cultural modernity is bad and that the masses have to be reintroduced to religion to save society. I would rather have a war supporter writing for the Times than that kind of Neocon, if I had to pick. (I have been thinking about this since C. Hitchens sort of called himself a Neocon on BhTV, and I was like LOL Whut? Am I incorrect?)

2) The only bad think about BhTV is that Mickey doesn't do diavlogs with other people very often anymore.

3) I would pledge real American dollars for Bloggingheads, of course.
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:39 AM
Richard from Amherst Richard from Amherst is offline
 
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Default Re: What is a Neocon + I love BhTV

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
1) Neocon has morphed into a shorthand for someone who has an interventionist foreign policy, was on the right and supported the Iraq war. But I think the old meaning of Neocon is someone who thinks cultural modernity is bad and that the masses have to be reintroduced to religion to save society. I would rather have a war supporter writing for the Times than that kind of Neocon, if I had to pick. (I have been thinking about this since C. Hitchens sort of called himself a Neocon on BhTV, and I was like LOL Whut? Am I incorrect?)

2) The only bad think about BhTV is that Mickey doesn't do diavlogs with other people very often anymore.

3) I would pledge real American dollars for Bloggingheads, of course.
According to Merriam Webster on line:

neoˇconˇserˇvaˇtive

Function:
noun
Date:
1952

1 : a former liberal espousing political conservatism 2 : a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means
— neoˇconˇserˇvaˇtism Listen to the pronunciation of neoconservatism \-və-ˌti-zəm\ noun
— neoconservative adjective

That is certainly the definition I understand and as definition 1: fits me I guess that I am a neoconservative.

Bob: I stopped posting to the forum in the fall because of the abuse I took from some of the forum regulars and because of the work and personal pressures.

I have remained a regular listener however and try to never miss an episode. I tend to listen via podcast, but enjoy watching when it is convenient.

I doubt I can be induced to again post regularly to the forum given the current climate. Frankly I get enough abuse as a conservative here in Western Mass already without going on line for more.

I know that I am in the minority however I actually enjoyed Bill Kristol's OpEds in the NY Times, warts and inconsistencies and all. I certainly hope the Times replaces him with another conservative. Personally I would like to see Newt Gingrich do some NY Times OpEds.

Concerning contributions to support your enterprise:

I would certainly entertain a NPR type subscription. I'd like to see more science related episodes and more conservative / conservative episodes.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:20 PM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: What is a Neocon + I love BhTV

The very fact that people are asking "who will replace Kristol (who was never really a mainstream conservative) as The Conservtive NYT Writer?" tells you everything you need to know about the NYT.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:34 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: What is a Neocon + I love BhTV

To replace Bill Kristol if that does occur how about a "dyed and the wool" Ron Paul type libertarian? Come to think of it Congressman Paul himself would be a good fit there. He appears to be a prolific writer and may have access to inside scoops. Just a suggestion.

John

Last edited by bkjazfan; 01-30-2009 at 05:38 PM..
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:04 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Bob, regarding civility.

It's a bit late. The clique here has been profane (I even made an few attempts to address it but was shouted down) and/or uncivil with anyone they disagree with for quite some time. The snide remarks, even the demands to ban certain conservative participants here, while always ridiculous, seemed to get much more support than the common sense rebuttal they deserved. Some of the more level-headed on the left have tried to quell the hate but it's been rare.

And you chide (albeit gently) Mickey for not responding here, have you seen some of the hate leveled in his direction? Some of the bile directed at Kaus, Goldberg, Frum, York, Beutler etc for the simple act of disagreement has been beyond the pale for quite some time.

I applaud the effort, but this should have been said long ago. And a site where the civility factor matches that of the bloggers participating, even if it still tilts heavily left, would be something worth supporting.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:19 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
And you chide (albeit gently) Mickey for not responding here, have you seen some of the hate leveled in his direction? Some of the bile directed at Kaus, Goldberg, Frum, York, Beutler etc for the simple act of disagreement has been beyond the pale for quite some time.

Absolutely. As a leftish person, I really appreciate the participation of the smart right. This is the only place with video that gives you the right perspective without being fox newsy.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:24 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
... even the demands to ban certain conservative participants here ...
Again you make this claim, and again I challenge you to document it.

Which you won't be able to do, unless you quote a joke out of context.

As to the rest of your complaints, I'd say a similar thing to you that Bob said to the commenters who don't like certain diavloggers: if it bothers you so much, why do you keep reading? Seems to me you've got a clearly defined list in your mind of people who you don't approve of. Why not just add them to your ignore list?
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:05 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

P.S. I'd also say, harkin, that a lot of the incivility here on this board starts with a few conservative commenters who seem to like nothing finer than coming here to drop flame bait or who often seem bent on picking fights. I would say that you, Salt, piscivorous, danking, kidneystones, and DenvilleSteve are among this group. (There are others, I'm sure, who don't come to mind, or who seem to have vanished.) I do not say about any of you that you do this exclusively, but you all do it to some degree. Maybe you think you're just expressing an opinion to which no one should take offense, but that's just not how it works. What seems reasonable to you may be objectionable to others, and I'm sure you're all aware of this at least some of the time.

While there may be something of worth to your complaints about the tone of the responses, you should also bear in mind what provokes it. Yes, it's reasonable up to a point to ask that people who can't think of anything to say in response except something cutting instead say nothing at all, but only up to a point. Beyond that, it seems to me that asking that someone be allowed to mouth off without pushback is asking for an unwarranted privilege.

Our country is dominated by loutish rightwingers who have too long been allowed to speak unchallenged. The truth of this may be measured by the fact that when objections are raised, you interpret it as "calls for banning." I'll say for the ninety-ninth time at least that you're being hysterical when you say this, and repeat that you're welcome to say whatever you want. Just don't think you can ask for carte blanche.
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:18 AM
Bobby G Bobby G is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
P.S. I'd also say, harkin, that a lot of the incivility here on this board starts with a few conservative commenters who seem to like nothing finer than coming here to drop flame bait or who often seem bent on picking fights.
One man's flamebait is another's obvious truism.I've seen lots of dismissive comments made here about religion where the only responses, at least for some time, are an Amen from the atheist congregation.
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:55 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
One man's flamebait is another's obvious truism.I've seen lots of dismissive comments made here about religion where the only responses, at least for some time, are an Amen from the atheist congregation.
Yep. Part of the price of participating in the public square. Those objecting to such dismissals are free to explain why they find them offensive. Sometimes this works -- see my last marathon thread with an evangelical Christian whose name escapes me at the moment. [Added: it just came to me: rfrobison.] I thought, and others said, as well, that it turned into a pretty good conversation.
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:10 PM
Bobby G Bobby G is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I was more responding to your response to harkin: "a lot of the incivility here on this board starts with a few conservative commenters who seem to like nothing finer than coming here to drop flame bait or who often seem bent on picking fights". Presumably you would agree that a lot of the incivility on this board starts with self-congratulatory atheists or even liberals?
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  #21  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
I was more responding to your response to harkin: "a lot of the incivility here on this board starts with a few conservative commenters who seem to like nothing finer than coming here to drop flame bait or who often seem bent on picking fights". Presumably you would agree that a lot of the incivility on this board starts with self-congratulatory atheists or even liberals?
I wouldn't say "a lot," no. I don't think there's that much self-congratulation, whether by atheists or liberals or anybody else.

I acknowledge that there are some comments that I could imagine are seen this way by non-atheists and/or non-liberals, and I also acknowledge that given my own leanings, it may be hard for me to realize how some other comments come across.

I will make an effort to watch out for this on my own part, but I also think the larger problem is this: there has long been a standard to the discourse in the US where conservatives and religious types get to say whatever they want, while liberals are expected to limit themselves to murmured disagreements and atheists are expected never to criticize religious beliefs. Think of how many times someone from the right will play the "you're a liberal so you have to be tolerant" card. I believe that conservative and religious types are especially skilled at, or at least too used to, playing the victim and working the refs, and despite their claims of being in the majority, tend to act awfully put-upon whenever they find themselves in a situation where a few voices are speaking up against them.

At some point, it is just as legitimate for me to state my own view that a belief or an idea is no more deserving of respect than those put forward by Flat-Earthers, Moon Landing Hoaxers, 9/11 Truthers, the Cult of the COLB, etc., as it is for someone to put forth said beliefs. It is my view that while there may be some discourtesy on my part and the part of others who share my views on these hot-button topics, there is also a sense of special privilege claimed by those who don't. So, as I said, I'll make an effort to be more civil, but I'm not going to pull all punches, and I expect that no matter how polite I am, there won't be any noticeable reduction to the complaints coming from the Outrage Junkies. Many, if not most, conservatives and religious commentators on this board seem perpetually to take disagreement as a personal insult, and see skillful rebuttals only as abuse.
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:15 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I will make an effort to watch out for this on my own part, but I also think the larger problem is this: there has long been a standard to the discourse in the US where conservatives and religious types get to say whatever they want, while liberals are expected to limit themselves to murmured disagreements and atheists are expected never to criticize religious beliefs. Think of how many times someone from the right will play the "you're a liberal so you have to be tolerant" card. I believe that conservative and religious types are especially skilled at, or at least too used to, playing the victim and working the refs, and despite their claims of being in the majority, tend to act awfully put-upon whenever they find themselves in a situation where a few voices are speaking up against them.
And how. I think many conservatives haven't figured out that you can't just bully liberals anymore, and they keep wigging out when it doesn't work.

The sad fact is that after eight years of Bush, after Iraq, after the whole sorry litany, it's just impossible to be sane, sober, and Republican. There's a good reason why there are so many soul-searching Republicans (Frum, Lake, Bartlett, etc) right now. They've completely lost theirs.
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  #23  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:56 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Again you make this claim, and again I challenge you to document it.

Which you won't be able to do, unless you quote a joke out of context.

It took me just a few minutes to find these examples (by checking my own responses and thankfully avoiding your own prodigious output) of your attempting to dictate who/what is and isn't permissable to be here. If these were jokes, your sense of humor has my condolences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Bloggingheads is now linking to Newsbusters? And you have the nerve to criticize Obama for kowtowing to the lunatic fringe of the right, Bob?

Instead of the usual Happy Happy, let's make a New Year's Resolution not to do that anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Bill:

I'm sorry to have to stop listening to you, but I can't take Conn anymore. Please find someone else to talk to. Conn Carroll makes Michael Goldfarb seem like a decent human being. I don't know how you put up with him. More to the point, I don't know why you do.

As I've said before to Bob, please feel free to ask anyone you feel has the potential to bring civilized, informed discussion to BhTV. If I disagree with what they say I may comment but I would never presume to dictate who gets heard and who doesnt.

Thanks again for a great site that (hopefully) is around for a long time and is worth supporting.
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:00 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
It took me just a few minutes to find these examples (by checking my own responses and thankfully avoiding your own prodigious output) of your attempting to dictate who/what is and isn't permissable to be here. If these were jokes, your sense of humor has my condolences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe
Bloggingheads is now linking to Newsbusters? And you have the nerve to criticize Obama for kowtowing to the lunatic fringe of the right, Bob?

Instead of the usual Happy Happy, let's make a New Year's Resolution not to do that anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe
Bill:

I'm sorry to have to stop listening to you, but I can't take Conn anymore. Please find someone else to talk to. Conn Carroll makes Michael Goldfarb seem like a decent human being. I don't know how you put up with him. More to the point, I don't know why you do.
As I've said before to Bob, please feel free to ask anyone you feel has the potential to bring civilized, informed discussion to BhTV. If I disagree with what they say I may comment but I would never presume to dictate who gets heard and who doesnt.
I don't see the word "ban" anywhere in my words. Big deal, I made a couple of suggestions reflecting my views, here, that NewsBusters is not a credible source, and that Conn Carroll is often unpleasant and usually a waste of time who takes up a slot that someone else could better fill. It's hardly "dictating" for me to express myself like this, since I have no power. Your word choices are hyperbolic.

I have made a number of (positive) suggestions about others I'd like to see. See, for example, the thread "New diavloggers we'd like to see."

It's up to you if you think there's something noble about restraining yourself from saying you don't like a particular diavlogger or a particular link. I don't happen to share that value. I also think you're being a little ridiculous here, because you don't seem to have much hesitation about saying other negative things directed at other people.

Like you, I think this is a great site. Unlike you, I see nothing wrong with expressing displeasure when I feel bad choices are being made. Bob is not omnipotent or a mind-reader. Feedback, both positive and negative, and criticism from active participants in the site may well be useful to him. These may also be of some use to the diavlogger in question.

And anyway, for someone who seems so distraught about calls to "limit speech," you seem awfully eager to tell me what I should not be allowed to say.
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Anyuser Anyuser is offline
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
It took me just a few minutes to find these examples (by checking my own responses and thankfully avoiding your own prodigious output) of your attempting to dictate who/what is and isn't permissable to be here.
But you have to keep in mind, he only unsheathes his mighty sword of scorn against bloggers if they really, really deserve it. I honestly think the guy has OCD.

27 and counting.
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:03 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyuser View Post
But you have to keep in mind, he only unsheathes his mighty sword of scorn against bloggers if they really, really deserve it. I honestly think the guy has OCD.

27 and counting.
You're counting my comments and I'm the one with OCD?
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:00 AM
Lyle
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Default Ad Hominem

I concur. I've gotten tired of Franco-American calling me a Yokel or a Hick. Even though he's French, he still doesn't have any manners (excepting his faux erudition). This guy can't say anything without belittling those who disagree with him. One mention of the Maginot Line and he farts in your general direction.

Last edited by Lyle; 02-01-2009 at 04:33 AM..
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:08 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Pledge or Subscribe

I'm not going to make an actual commitment.

But, I would argue, that subscribers like something extra for giving money. I subscribe to publications that give me more than the average web-surfer can get with a click. I wouldn't just pledge money to PBS or bhTV for a mug and a t-shirt. especially if I have to listen to 'heads to whom I wouldn't subscribe separately without a say in the matter.
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  #29  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:15 AM
buckle buckle is offline
 
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Default the surge worked? says who?

Wait, when was it decided that the surge worked? The last thing I saw was that the surge was getting way too much credit for the reduction of violence in Iraq: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0919074830.htm

Has there been any serious response to this? Sure, politicians keep repeating that the surge worked, but politicians say all kinds of things. It seems like the NYT should hire someone who was against the war and who acknowledges the surge didn't work.
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:42 AM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: the surge worked? says who?

Violence started going down around the time the surge happened. Whether you think the surge contributed or that violence would have gone down more with a partition plan or retreat or whatever is largely a function of which party you identify with.

Also, I'd be up for chipping in some jacksons if you're giving away chintzy merchandise with it. Culture11 just closed too, you free content companies are being real downers lately.
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  #31  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:49 AM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: the surge worked? says who?

Quote:
It seems like the NYT should hire someone who was against the war and who acknowledges the surge didn't work.
Cue hysterical cries of "Fairness Doctrine!!"
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  #32  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:47 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: the surge worked? says who?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckle View Post
Wait, when was it decided that the surge worked?
Before it started.
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  #33  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:31 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: the surge worked? says who?

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Before it started.
Nice.
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  #34  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:41 AM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Maybe David Frum should have been held to the "civility" standard when he treated the guy debating Gaza with undisguised contempt. And a few others, like Ann Althouse, are simply nuts and little more than laughable. Frankly I don't think Bloggingheads is a very balanced site - it's an absurd conceit to suggest that Heather Hurlburt is as hard "left" as Frum is nutty neocon right. If someone can show me a Hurlburt crackpot "left" equivalent to Frums "Axis of Evil" rhetoric or that crazy book he wrote with the egregious war profiteer Richard Perle, I'd be very interested.
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  #35  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:56 AM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Agreed. Notice that most of the recipients of the harshest comments (Frum, Goldbergh, Kagan) are people who make their living by spouting ridiculous/hateful comments about others. Not that that is a justification, it is an explanation. I would think that Bob would appreciate this as a simple feedback loop that society uses to reinforce it's norms.

Bob, I hope you give Mickey a stern talking-to after this diavlog. He called (actual BH diavlogger) Rob Reich a "Huckster." And he also used sarcasm more than once. "BH Venture Capitalists...we hardly knew ye."
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2009, 03:32 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Agreed. Notice that most of the recipients of the harshest comments (Frum, Goldbergh, Kagan) are people who make their living by spouting ridiculous/hateful comments about others.
Add Ann Althouse to that list (although, admittedly, her blog is her hobby, not the way she makes a living).

Let's not forget Jerome Corsi was given a platform, too.
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  #37  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:23 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Agreed. Notice that most of the recipients of the harshest comments (Frum, Goldbergh, Kagan) are people who make their living by spouting ridiculous/hateful comments about others.
Most of this type of sniping generally comes from the left. When's the last time you read a post where someone pissed all over Heather Hurlburt? Dare I say the ingroup-i-ness also exists on the left, but I suppose that's a given because there aren't enough conservatives on here to band together. As a lefty, I feel like I have to defend Frum, Kagan, etc., just because nobody else does. Unfortunately, I do a piss poor job of it because I'm just not a con by heart.

It also surprises me how much the lefties on here engage in selective hearing. Isn't it a liberal quality to sort of seek out the truth in things rather than be so in-groupy?

I implore those of you who enjoy spewing your frothy mouthed vitriol (right or left) to watch Jonathan Haidt's lecture on the real differences between libs and cons. Maybe you'll be less pissed off all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs41JrnGaxc
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  #38  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:31 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

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Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
When's the last time you read a post where someone pissed all over Heather Hurlburt?
Hurlburt is absolutely terrific, that's why. Likewise, nobody complains about Drezner. It's the suckiness that appalls. Even Frum is drifting towards the reality-based community, except for that bit about the West Bank being part of Israel.

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I implore those of you who enjoy spewing your frothy mouthed vitriol
Stop right there.
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  #39  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:44 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

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Hurlburt is absolutely terrific, that's why. Likewise, nobody complains about Drezner. It's the suckiness that appalls.
And that's my point isn't it? I like her too, but what about the others who don't meet your standard of terrific? The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters. People can disagree without resorting to ad hominems.

Your personal distaste for Ann Coulter has nothing to do with the validity of her arguments. Gah. I hate getting stuck defending people I disagree with.

Quote:
Stop right there.
Well you should have read further because I was talking to angry people on both sides.

Last edited by sugarkang; 01-30-2009 at 04:47 AM..
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  #40  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:39 AM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

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Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
And that's my point isn't it? I like her too, but what about the others who don't meet your standard of terrific? The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters. People can disagree without resorting to ad hominems.

Your personal distaste for Ann Coulter has nothing to do with the validity of her arguments. Gah. I hate getting stuck defending people I disagree with.
That's probably a bad example because she operates at a lower level than I've ever seen this board sink to. It's too much to ask that we treat with respect diavloguers who don't treat anyone else that way. I'm not sure there have been any that bad (although a lot of people seemed to take the "Liberal Fascism" thing personally) but hypothetically..
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