Commenter Klatch: Light My Fire (Robert Wright & JimM47)

[Bloggingheads]

[osmium]

This was great. Very enlightening about how BhTV works. I would be interested to know if the production effort required for diavlogs has a large standard deviation. i.e. If everything works right, is the effort minimal?

Jim I was just in Minneapolis a week and a half ago, and spent a lot of time outside waiting on buses. And now I am home sick with a cold!

[Florian]

Near the end of the diavlog Bob Wright invites JimM47 to sing Jim Morrison's "Light my fire" on a Lutheran organ...

Bob, you no longer have to strive for immortality.

On the other hand, most diavloggers believe that Islam is a great religion of peace, and they believe that "Islamophobia" is a terrible scourge (no word about Christophobia or Naziphobia). So how about some balance on the Islamic front? I would like to see Robert Spencer debate one of the people who believe that what Islam teaches is basically good.

Also, Jim is younger than I thought. Even when I disagree with him, it's obvious that he's rather well-informed, as well as intelligent and mature - rare qualities.

[chamblee54]

[QUOTE=apple;229725]On the other hand, most diavloggers believe that Islam is a great religion of peace, and they believe that "Islamophobia" is a terrible scourge (no word about Christophobia or Naziphobia).
Concern about phobias has hit a new low.
The Nazis may have killed a lot of people, but they wore snazzy uniforms.

chamblee54

[ledocs]

Well done!

I have looked at the numbers. Even when Drezner is classified as a libertarian, which would never have occurred to me to do, perhaps only because I have not heard him declare himself, I thought he was a moderate Republican, we are only at about 10% of all appearances being by libertarians. So I guess what this shows is that I, and some others, have a low tolerance for libertarians. I did not see any cases of diavloggers whom I would classify as libertarian not being so classified.

Some of the rows in the spreadsheet do not appear to sum to the totals. The columns seem OK.

Yeah, I had no idea that J47 was so young. I thought he was about 40, based upon the Apollo appearance. Must be the beard, as well as the posts. That's my least favorite category, the young libertarian. But you're a gentleman and a scholar, Mr. J47. And there is still plenty of time for you to get off this libertarian jag you're on.

[Wonderment]

Great job, Jim.

Any interviewer who can get Bob to sing a few bars of "Light My Fire" deserves the Peabody Award for Tenderly Eliciting the Subject's Inner Rock Star.

The Lutheran churches factoid reminded me of an old Jewish joke:

A Jewish sailor was shipwrecked on a desert island and the first thing he did was build two synagogues. Years later when he was rescued people were bewildered and asked him why he built two synagogues, to which he replied:
"Oh that other one... I would NEVER go there!"

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

The Lutheran churches factoid reminded me of an old Jewish joke:

LOL!

[sugarkang]

Wilkinson's Free Will was the greatest series ever.
When's Mickey coming back?
Great job JimM.

[TwinSwords]

Great diavlog! And great to see you, Jim. Very interesting discussion, and great research.

About foundation support: If it means more academics, I think that's probably a good thing. I think the academics are probably the main thing that make BhTV so much better than almost all other media -- radio, TV, and even most podcasts.

[TwinSwords]

Great moment. :-D

[TwinSwords]

Okay, just finished watching. I have to say, that was a great interview, Jim. You asked a lot of really interesting questions and allowed us to learn a lot of stuff we've wondered about for a long time.

I also have renewed appreciation for all of Bob's efforts.

[stephanie]

Argh -- just wrote a post on a few of the topics touched on and it got lost. Will have to come back to them later if I can remember.

Anyway, good job, Jim. That was a lot of fun to watch and informative too.

[bkjazfan]

"The Doors": saw them in the summer of '65 performing at a party in a well to do area of West Los Angeles that a group of us had crashed. If memory serves me right sneaking into that place was quite difficult. It entailed climbing a fence, dodging security and the like. Needless, to say they were fabulous. This must have been right before they made it big time.

[JonIrenicus]

Ok, so this will probably never actually happen, but if it did it would vastly expand the user base of bloggingheads.tv


open up the content to other portals

thinking netflix/hulu/etc

now why would they want to bother adding bloggingheads content? not sure, it's a huge long shot, but maybe one of them might want to expand more current and up to date video topic discussions and this could be a start.

[Unit]

Originally Posted by JonIrenicus

Ok, so this will probably never actually happen, but if it did it would vastly expand the user base of bloggingheads.tv


open up the content to other portals

thinking netflix/hulu/etc

now why would they want to bother adding bloggingheads content? not sure, it's a huge long shot, but maybe one of them might want to expand more current and up to date video topic discussions and this could be a start.

The Best of BloggingHeadsTV in 3 easy sets! Only 19.99!

[Ocean]

Great conversation! Congrats to JimM47 for making it into the big screen.

It was very informative to learn about details of production behind the scenes.

Jim, you're not from this city, are you? It would have been a real coincidence.

[jimM47]

Originally Posted by Ocean

Jim, you're not from this city, are you? It would have been a real coincidence.

Oh, Chippewa County, where they said, "Let's have not one, but two, towns named for world-famous cities; and let's mispronounce both of them!" (I grew up an hour north of Monte.)

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by jimM47

Oh, Chippewa County, where they said, "Let's have not one, but two, towns named for world-famous cities; and let's mispronounce both of them!" (I grew up an hour north of Monte.)

That's close enough to be considered a coincidence. What's the other town with a world famous city name?

[jimM47]

Originally Posted by Ocean

That's close enough to be considered a coincidence. What's the other town with a world famous city name?

Milan, MN, spelled like Milan, Italy, but pronounced like Myelin, the nerve insulator.

[rcocean]

Not only did you use your real name, you came across as intelligent and confident. Bob Wright, despite the almost politician's charm, is a rather intimidating figure for anyone unused to public appearances, yet you held your own.

Well done!

As for the site and its guests. I understand all the difficulties and restraints Bob Wright laborers under & also that he is a social and economic liberal. But I still wish he'd have someone like James Bowman on to discuss Movies, or Charles Murray, or *gasp* Pat Buchanan/Michelle Malkin to discuss whatever.

As Jim stated its the internet. So, despite a majority of Americans Opposing "Open Borders" or "Free trade" or "Affirmative action" we still get 90% of the guests supporting said positions.

[DavidIowa]

I love it when gentiles use yiddish words, but I have yet to hear a gentile pronounce the work "kvetch" properly. It's just one syllable, not two. It's not "ki-vetch". It's "kvetch".

Yours kvetchingly,
DavidIowa

[stephanie]

Originally Posted by DavidIowa

I love it when gentiles use yiddish words, but I have yet to hear a gentile pronounce the work "kvetch" properly. It's just one syllable, not two. It's not "ki-vetch". It's "kvetch".

All the gentiles I know (okay, who I work with, anyway) say it as one syllable. Not claiming you wouldn't come up with some other criticism of our pronounciation, though, ;-) but I'm guessing the inability to say it right by the non-Jewish is probably somewhat geographical/having hear more frequently the correct pronunciation.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by stephanie

All the gentiles I know (okay, who I work with, anyway) say it as one syllable. Not claiming you wouldn't come up with some other criticism of our pronounciation, though, ;-) but I'm guessing the inability to say it right by the non-Jewish is probably somewhat geographical/having hear more frequently the correct pronunciation.

Why would anyone who is not Jewish be supposed to know how to pronounce a word in a language used only by Jewish people? I don't even know what kvetch means.

Anyone speaking a language which is not his/her primary language is likely to have pronunciation errors. Isn't that a given, amigous?

[stephanie]

Originally Posted by Ocean

Why would anyone who is not Jewish be supposed to know how to pronounce a word in a language used only by Jewish people? I don't even know what kvetch means.

I don't know about "supposed to know," but many yiddishisms are quite useful and one picks them up. (A long time ago I resisted, although to no avail, when a boss insisted I accuse someone of chutzpah in a letter, because I said I shouldn't write a word I didn't feel comfortable saying, but that was, as I said, a long time ago.)

Oddly enough, around the same time I was at a conference with this elderly state judge who kind of liked to evoke Rodney Dangerfield, I think, plus three other lawyers, where I was by far the youngest, the only woman, and the only non-Jew. The judge kept using yiddish and then turning directly to me and translating. He was trying to be nice/inclusive, but I knew the meanings and just wondered why it was so obvious that everyone else was Jewish and I wasn't.

But in any case, everything that becomes common parlance gets anglicized and then pronounciation is fair game and subject to regional accents and all the rest.

[Ocean]

Yes, I know how that goes. I just found the original comment somewhat odd in the implicit expectation that those who use the term would know the exact pronunciation, when perhaps, they picked it up from written text or heard it only once or twice and tried to approximate the pronunciation.

I have probably said this in this forum before, but, for example, I had to relearn how to pronounce the Latin names given to various illness, the "American way". I had originally learned them with a pronunciation which was close or the same as in Latin. But, of course, in English those names change completely. So the process of learning how to pronounce words the wrong way isn't fun, and yet, that's part of becoming part of a culture. Same with Spanish. If I say my name in the way I would originally say it, people may look at me trying to figure out what I say and not understanding. So, I had to modify the pronunciation, slightly to accommodate. Again, it's part of acculturation I guess.

Viva kivetching!

[Wonderment]

We all are way too into this, but there are a couple of things wrong with David's original post. First of all, there are very few native speakers of Yiddish left in the USA (or anywhere), so 99-1 David is not one of them. Thus, everyone's pronunciation of Yiddish is "wrong" or -- mejor dicho -- accented consistent with the speech patterns of their native language and dialect. In other words, to a native speaker, American Jews and Gentiles sound equally bad in their pronunciation.

Second, even native Yiddish speakers find different dialects quite different. There are some so different, in fact, that they're almost mutually incomprehensible, although the written form is universal (like some dialects of Arabic).

Third, lots of Gentiles, like Stephanie, know as much Yiddish as the majority of Israelis and American Jews (I may be exaggerating a tad, but not a lot). So it's not like your ordinary American Jew has the inside track on knowing what chutzpah, shiksa, kvell or kvetch even mean, much less how to pronounce them in a manner consistent with that of Polish, Hungarian or Russian Jews in the 19th century. (Actually Chutzpah is a Hebrew word, so all Israelis know that one).

[stephanie]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

We all are way too into this, but there are a couple of things wrong with David's original post.

Yeah, yeah, but I think you are being too literal-minded here. Generally, when someone says "you say it wrong," it means "you don't say it like those I recognize as having the correct pronunciation."

I'm really only posting because this discussion reminded me of a movie I saw recently -- Sholem Aleichem: Laughing in the Darkness, which I enjoyed. We were lucky enough to have the film-maker talk after the showing, and it was surprisingly interesting. A lot of it is about Yiddish literature and why it died off (with segments focusing on the US, USSR, and Israel, in particular), so it seemed pertinent.

[graz]

Originally Posted by Ocean

Yes, I know how that goes. I just found the original comment somewhat odd in the implicit expectation that those who use the term would know the exact pronunciation, when perhaps, they picked it up from written text or heard it only once or twice and tried to approximate the pronunciation.

Viva kivetching!

Case in point?

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by graz

Case in point?

If that was the only kind of gaffe we've come to expect from Michele...

[rcocean]

Originally Posted by DavidIowa

I love it when gentiles use yiddish words, but I have yet to hear a gentile pronounce the work "kvetch" properly. It's just one syllable, not two. It's not "ki-vetch". It's "kvetch".

Yours kvetchingly,
DavidIowa

Yes, its like hearing people from the East pronounce "Pulallup Washington" or "Kauai".

[Wonderment]

Yes, its like hearing people from the East pronounce "Pulallup Washington" or "Kauai".

Or hearing Gringos say, "Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, El Paso, San Antonio," or worst of all, "TIAwana."

[rcocean]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

Or hearing Gringos say, "Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, El Paso, San Antonio," or worst of all, "TIAwana."

Oh, I didn't know you were a Mexican.

[Wonderment]

Oh, I didn't know you were a Mexican.

Sí señor, y a mucha honra.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

Sí señor, y a mucha honra.

As I was reading this comment, a very old song, which my mother used to sing around the house at times, came up from my early memories. I always found the lyrics so sad and sweet at the same time.

[Wonderment]

Your mom had good taste in ídolos mexicanos. I think I've seen every movie Pedro ever made (at least twice). Jorge Negrete may have had a better voice, at least according to Plácido Domingo who has acknowledged him as a big influence, but Pedro had the encanto. Here is your Friday night serenata.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

Your mom had good taste in ídolos mexicanos. I think I've seen every movie Pedro ever made (at least twice). Jorge Negrete may have had a better voice, at least according to Plácido Domingo who has acknowledged him as a big influence, but Pedro had the encanto. Here is your Friday night serenata.

Ay, qué romantico!

[rcocean]

Originally Posted by Wonderment

Sí señor, y a mucha honra.

Of course. Actually, the funniest thing is hearing some people go to the other extreme and over pronounce the Spanish place names in California. I was trying to link to SNL's 80s skit on "Nicaragua" - but it seems that's impossible, because NBC wants everyone to buy a DVD or whatever.

[rcocean]

Here

[stephanie]

Originally Posted by rcocean

Of course. Actually, the funniest thing is hearing some people go to the other extreme and over pronounce the Spanish place names in California. I was trying to link to SNL's 80s skit on "Nicaragua" - but it seems that's impossible, because NBC wants everyone to buy a DVD or whatever.

I remember that! And NBC does make it impossible to find most SNL skits.

I also remember some of the national news people pronouncing Valdez, AK the Spanish way at the time of the oil spill. It's Val-dEEZ, damnit. What next, trying to correct the pronounciation of Cairo, IL?

I think my favorite US place name may be the many Versailles in the US. (Although Arab, AL -- that's Ayrab -- is pretty funny.) The most confusing "how do you pronounce that" I've come across in Chicago is Goethe Street (in other words, would I rather sound dumb or be misunderstood, especially since no one seems to agree on the correct way to say it).