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  #1  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Why has the admitted perjurer, tax fraud and notorious liar, Nafissatou Diallo, who entered the US by falsifying her visa application and thus is in the US illegally, not been arrested by ICE and scheduled for a deportation hearing?

And why does an indictment of Strauss-Kahn obtained through the use of perjured testimony (Vance himself admits she lied to the grand jury) still stand?

It appears that the office of the NY District Attorney has at last come to its (feeble) senses. The charges against the French Perv are to be dismissed.

Last edited by Florian; 07-05-2011 at 01:26 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:33 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Why has the admitted perjurer, tax fraud and notorious liar, Nafissatou Diallo, who entered the US by falsifying her visa application and thus is in the US illegally, not been arrested by ICE and scheduled for a deportation hearing?

And why does an indictment of Strauss-Kahn obtained through the use of perjured testimony (Vance himself admits she lied to the grand jury) still stand?

It appears that the office of the NY District Attorney has at last come to its (feeble) senses. The charges against the French Perv are to be dismissed.
I'm more concerned with the DA than Diallo. Diallo was plainly a low-level grifter; the DA should've been able to recognize that and pretty clearly doesn't possess the wisdom and temperament to do his job. We have a bit of a problem with overanxious DAs looking to score big 'wins' and going to unethical lengths to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if Diallo simply slips back into oblivion--she probably has enough shady contacts that she can relocate without much notice.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:45 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Here's an article about the perp walk, inspired by the DSK case:
http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/0...ious-perp-walk
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  #4  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:59 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
I'm more concerned with the DA than Diallo. Diallo was plainly a low-level grifter; the DA should've been able to recognize that and pretty clearly doesn't possess the wisdom and temperament to do his job. We have a bit of a problem with overanxious DAs looking to score big 'wins' and going to unethical lengths to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if Diallo simply slips back into oblivion--she probably has enough shady contacts that she can relocate without much notice.
I was tongue-in-cheek. I bear no ill-will to poor Nafissatou Diallo. I only hope that the law will pursue her with the same merciless incompetence with which it pursued Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:14 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
I was tongue-in-cheek. I bear no ill-will to poor Nafissatou Diallo. I only hope that the law will pursue her with the same merciless incompetence with which it pursued Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
Heh. If only. Unfortunately going after low-level grifters doesn't offer near as much political return as going after high-ranking officials of certain less-popular European countries.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by operative View Post
Heh. If only. Unfortunately going after low-level grifters doesn't offer near as much political return as going after high-ranking officials of certain less-popular European countries.
Tout est dit. That says it all.
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Perhaps Tritane Banon can be deported from France too.

Oh wait, she's a French citizen and a prominent member of the alleged rapist's political party.

Plan B: Maybe both women can simply be gagged, so they won't ever again accuse plutocrats of any criminal conduct.

Oh wait, the hotel worker already was gagged, by DSK's penis.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Perhaps Tritane Banon can be deported from France too.

Oh wait, she's a French citizen and a prominent member of the alleged rapist's political party.

Plan B: Maybe both women can simply be gagged, so they won't ever again accuse plutocrats of any criminal conduct.

Oh wait, the hotel worker already was gagged, by DSK's penis.
It would delight me if BHTV would deport you, perhaps to a lunatic asylum, but, alas, that will never occur.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2011, 10:55 AM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Were you relying on the article in "The New York Post" for this assertion?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/ny...t.html?_r=1&hp
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Were you relying on the article in "The New York Post" for this assertion?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/ny...t.html?_r=1&hp
Which assertion? That the case would be dismissed? Or that Nafissatou Diallo should be deported and that her perjured testimony invalidates the Grand Jury indictment?

The first assertion, which I picked up through Agence France Presse, I knew to be uncertain: that is why I said "it appears." The second assertion, according to an American lawyer friend of mine who lives here in Paris, could be argued.

As I said in my reply to operative, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2011, 12:58 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Never mind, I was mixing up my threads on this topic.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Never mind, I was mixing up my threads on this topic.
But as an experienced lawyer what is your opinion? If a Grand Jury indictment is obtained through perjured testimony, is it still valid?
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2011, 02:29 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Another post on the matter.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2011, 02:47 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
But as an experienced lawyer what is your opinion? If a Grand Jury indictment is obtained through perjured testimony, is it still valid?
Just to be totally clear, I'm not a criminal lawyer. But my memory is that the indictment is not invalid unless the perjury was suborned by the prosecution, which has not been alleged here and would be implausible if it were, or is material. The prosecution's duty is to disclose it to the defense, which is what happened.

I doubt the perjury in question, what the witness did immediately after the alleged rape, would be considered material, but in any case the defense would have to go to court and argue that it was.

Last edited by stephanie; 07-06-2011 at 02:51 PM..
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2011, 02:48 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I generally agree with that. It's not clear to me that any of the new evidence is something that the prosecutor can be blamed for not knowing, and they turned it over as required.

I dislike the practice of seeking publicity by prosecutors, but that would be the same with or without the new evidence.
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  #16  
Old 07-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
I generally agree with that. It's not clear to me that any of the new evidence is something that the prosecutor can be blamed for not knowing, and they turned it over as required.

I dislike the practice of seeking publicity by prosecutors, but that would be the same with or without the new evidence.
Nocera is entitled to think that the DA acted correctly---I think he acted imprudently and with unnecessary haste (and there are plenty of American lawyers who agree)---but the following remark betrays that Nocera is just another ignorant, stupid francophobe. There is not single truth in the following paragraph:

Quote:
To judge by his recent writings, Bernard-Henri Lévy prefers to live in a country where the elites are rarely held to account, where crimes against women are routinely excused with a wink and a nod and where people without money or status are treated like the nonentities that the French moneyed class believe they are..
Is this what passes for intelligent commentary in the US? Crimes against women are "routinely" excused in France? People without money or status are "treated like non-entites"? I am sorry.... but a man who can allow himself to write such inanities is not fit to publish in a major newspaper.

Last edited by Florian; 07-06-2011 at 04:11 PM..
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  #17  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:26 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Is this what passes for intelligent commentary in the US? Crimes against women are "routinely" excused in France? People without money or status are "treated like non-entites"? I am sorry.... but a man who can allow himself to write such inanities is not fit to publish in a major newspaper.
I didn't spend a lot of time parsing it, so perhaps am wrong in my impressions, but that seemed like more of a slam against BHL and his presumed ideal country than a statement about reality in France.

I don't think it's totally fair about BHL, in any case. As I said before, I saw his outcry at the arrest to be more related to friendship and loyalty than some statement about class or dispassionate legal argument.
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
I didn't spend a lot of time parsing it, so perhaps am wrong in my impressions, but that seemed like more of a slam against BHL and his presumed ideal country than a statement about reality in France.

I don't think it's totally fair about BHL, in any case. As I said before, I saw his outcry at the arrest to be more related to friendship and loyalty than some statement about class or dispassionate legal argument.
Stephanie, I'm starting to believe that there will only be one possible way to elucidate this matter. We'll have to organize an expedition to France and see whether the accusations against French society are true. I volunteer to be one of the investigators. A couple of weeks in Paris should do.

Problem solved.
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:44 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

The assertion that the case would be dismissed. There is an article in "The New York Post," the main source of which is "highly placed" (my words, not the Post's) in the prosecution, saying that the case is virtually certain to be dropped, more probably than not prior to the July 18 hearing. I don't know if AFP is getting its information from the "Post," independently but also from the Post's source, or what.

Also, the allegation that Diallo is a prostitute is coming from the "Post," and Diallo’s lawyer says they are going to sue the “Post” for libel, as you know. The "Post" is not a very reputable source, I think, but even "The National Enquirer" gets stories like this right some of the time. My reason for thinking that the prostitution allegation will stick had primarily to do with the defense's repeated assertions that it would argue consent in a trial, and I just think it's virtually impossible that there was consensual sex here unless money was offered or expected. The defense could be lying, they could simply be concocting a defense to speak to jurors of my persuasion, but I don't think that it is. Also, the "Post" knows that Diallo has representation and that Diallo is presumably interested in making some money from this whole affair.

Back to Maureen Dowd and her alleged stupidity. Michael Bloomberg apparently gave a statement in which he approves of the prosecution keeping DSK from leaving the country but disapproves of the perp walk. But a simple point about your argument to the effect that the absence of a US-France extradition treaty was irrelevant did not occur to me until today. It's fine to allow DSK to leave the country and investigate the complainant in the background, if the assumption is that DSK is innocent. But if he assaulted her, and he knows that he assaulted her, and is leaving the scene in a hurry, as has also been alleged, then there is no reason for the prosecution to assume that he will be coming back to New York to resume his duties at the IMF. So I think what the prosecution ought to have done is to have arrested him but not oppose bail and not seek such an unusually high bail with house arrest, but only the proviso that the suspect could not leave the US. And they then take their time investigating the complainant, and they do not go to the grand jury until and unless they are confident about the complainant and her story. And they dispense with the perp walk. DSK is then out on bail in the US while the prosecution is deciding whether or not they want to seek indictment, and on what charges. I certainly agree that there should have been considerably more skepticism of the complainant by the prosecution. Then there is this woman Friel (sic?), apparently the DA’s top sex-crime prosecutor, who is leaving the DA’s office under sort of mysterious circumstances, and there is the question of the extent to which the swift indictment was politically motivated.

And there is the following article in the NYT which sort of argues for my recommended scenario.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/ny...questrausskahn

From the article: “The prosecutors’ swift action on the case may also hint at their belief in their evidence. They obtained an indictment within a week of Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s arrest, even though they could have taken longer because he was granted bail. It is not unusual for prosecutors to delay indictments on sex crime charges for weeks, if not months, while they investigate cases, many of which lack definitive physical evidence and amount to credibility battles between the accuser and the accused.”

In a case of this sensitivity, however, the prosecutor could not take months to reach a decision. They needed to do top-notch investigative work about the complainant as quickly as possible.
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Last edited by ledocs; 07-06-2011 at 08:48 PM..
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:58 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

I think you will need a male representative as well to counter any charges of gender-bias aimed at the inspection team. I volunteer.
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  #21  
Old 07-06-2011, 08:44 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I think you will need a male representative as well to counter any charges of gender-bias aimed at the inspection team. I volunteer.
I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, yeah, you're right. Done.

Now we need to start looking for funding.
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  #22  
Old 07-06-2011, 08:49 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Perhaps Bob is interested in starting a cultural investigation branch for the BHTV Empire!
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:30 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
I didn't spend a lot of time parsing it, so perhaps am wrong in my impressions, but that seemed like more of a slam against BHL and his presumed ideal country than a statement about reality in France.

I don't think it's totally fair about BHL, in any case. As I said before, I saw his outcry at the arrest to be more related to friendship and loyalty than some statement about class or dispassionate legal argument.

I agree with your second paragraph, but even on the best construction the passage I quoted from Nocera makes no sense. BHL's "ideal country" is one in which crimes against women are "routinely" ignored, and people without money are treated like non-entities???? How could anyone reach such a conclusion on the basis of what Lévy has written? Indeed how could anyone think that any writer or journalist, especially a writer like Lévy who is clearly on the left of the political spectrum, could say or believe such things?

It should be fairly easy to find statistics on rape in both countries and compare the number of prosecutions, successful and non-successful. One thing I do know: There has been a significant increase in prosecutions for rape in France in the past 20 years.

Last edited by Florian; 07-07-2011 at 06:11 AM..
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  #24  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:04 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Back to Maureen Dowd and her alleged stupidity. Michael Bloomberg But a simple point about your argument to the effect that the absence of a US-France extradition treaty was irrelevant did not occur to me until today. It's fine to allow DSK to leave the country and investigate the complainant in the background, if the assumption is that DSK is innocent. But if he assaulted her, and he knows that he assaulted her, and is leaving the scene in a hurry, as has also been alleged, then there is no reason for the prosecution to assume that he will be coming back to New York to resume his duties at the IMF.
Yes, all very true, if true. That is what the prosection said in the immediate aftermath of the arrest: that DSK was in a hurry to leave the country (although the plane reservation had been made weeks in advance), and that they had other "proof" of his guilty conscience--such as witnesses who thought he looked nervous etc.... There is only one thing that bothers me about this little scenario, besides the plane ticket and the leisurely lunch DSK supposedly had with his daughter, namely, why would a man in a hurry to leave the country undetected do such a stupid thing as call the hotel and ask them to return his cellphone? Is that the action of a fugitive? All I can say is that, I, Florian, fleeing the scene of one of my many crimes, would have acted more prudently.

Quote:
So I think what the prosecution ought to have done is to have arrested him but not oppose bail and not seek such an unusually high bail with house arrest, but only the proviso that the suspect could not leave the US. And they then take their time investigating the complainant, and they do not go to the grand jury until and unless they are confident about the complainant and her story. And they dispense with the perp walk. DSK is then out on bail in the US while the prosecution is deciding whether or not they want to seek indictment, and on what charges. I certainly agree that there should have been considerably more skepticism of the complainant by the prosecution. Then there is this woman Friel (sic?), apparently the DA’s top sex-crime prosecutor, who is leaving the DA’s office under sort of mysterious circumstances, and there is the question of the extent to which the swift indictment was politically motivated. .
To the extent that I understand American law I agree with this. My American lawyer friend has said similar things. Your last statement seems to me true. One big difference between the American and the French judicial systems is that the procureur and juge d'instruction are not elected officials. They do not need to prove themselves in order to get re-elected.

Quote:
From the article: “The prosecutors’ swift action on the case may also hint at their belief in their evidence. They obtained an indictment within a week of Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s arrest, even though they could have taken longer because he was granted bail. It is not unusual for prosecutors to delay indictments on sex crime charges for weeks, if not months, while they investigate cases, many of which lack definitive physical evidence and amount to credibility battles between the accuser and the accused.”

In a case of this sensitivity, however, the prosecutor could not take months to reach a decision. They needed to do top-notch investigative work about the complainant as quickly as possible.
It is really difficult for the general public to form an opinion about cases like this, especially when the prosecution leaks information about the forensic evidence to the press before it can be properly evaluated by a court of law. Forensic evidence is not "self-evident." Drops of sperm, torn clothes, etc. do not necessarily tell a tale of non-consensual sex.

Moreover, there is a new potentially incriminating piece of information now that we know that Nafissatou Diallo went back to hotel suite supposedly to clean it. It is called: tampering with the evidence.

Last edited by Florian; 07-07-2011 at 06:14 AM..
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  #25  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:44 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Dershowitz in French on American Justice

ACTUALITÉ International
«En Amérique, on adore se précipiter pour juger»

Par Laure Mandeville
07/07/2011 | Mise à jour : 08:31 Réactions (2) Alan Dershowitz est un célèbre avocat pénaliste de New York. Il est professeur de droit à l'université Harvard.

LE FIGARO. -Comment expliquez-vous ce qui ressemble, dans l'affaire DSK, sinon à un ratage de la justice, en tout cas à un excès de précipitation du procureur?

Alan DERSHOWITZ. -Le procureur Cyrus Vance a eu le courage de rectifier le tir, dès qu'il a eu connaissance des faits qui démontraient l'effondrement de la crédibilité de la plaignante. Je connais nombre de procureurs qui se seraient assis dessus! Je lui tire donc mon chapeau. Mais il est allé trop vite, il aurait dû attendre pour faire inculper l'accusé devant le grand jury. La réalité est que le système pénal américain est profondément dysfonctionnel, et notamment dans le domaine des crimes sexuels. La justice pénale est en effet très perméable à la pression de l'opinion publique, car nous avons des procureurs élus, ce qui est une abomination, et des juges élus, ce qui en est une autre! Leur but est évidemment de se faire réélire, et ils utilisent souvent les affaires pour se gagner une notoriété. De ce point de vue, vous êtes plus protégés en France, où vous avez un appareil professionnel moins dépendant.

Que faut-il faire pour améliorer les choses?

Quand j'ai commencé ma carrière, à la fin des années 1950, accuser un homme de viol était un scandale, c'était toujours la faute des femmes, ce qui était inacceptable. Mais, aujourd'hui, le balancier est parti complètement dans l'autre sens. Beaucoup de procureurs font désormais comme s'il y avait un gène de la vérité et un gène du mensonge en fonction de votre sexe. Si vous êtes une femme, vous ne pouvez mentir! C'est devenu un vrai problème, car c'est loin d'être toujours vrai, comme on le voit aujourd'hui. L'Amérique est restée une société très moraliste, dans laquelle les gens ne font pas nécessairement la différence entre relation sexuelle forcée et consentie. Il ne faut pas oublier que nous n'avons aboli le crime d'adultère que récemment et que le crime de fornication existait aussi encore dans les années 1970.

L'immixtion spectaculaire des médias dans ces affaires de justice fait-elle partie du problème?

En Amérique, on adore se précipiter pour juger. Avec le «perp walk», les caméras dans les salles d'audience, l'immixtion des médias est omniprésente. Dans le cas de DSK, on s'est précipité pour condamner cet homme *riche et puissant, et maintenant le balancier repart dans l'autre sens, on se hâte de condamner la plaignante. Regardez ce qui s'est passé hier dans ce procès de Floride qui fait la une de tous les journaux. On a assisté à l'acquittement par les jurés de Casey Anthony, accusée d'avoir tué sa petite fille de 2 ans et demi. Pourtant, la presse, depuis trois ans, l'avait déclarée coupable. C'est ce que j'appelle la justice de Nancy Grace (du nom de cette présentatrice de la chaîne HLN qui a durant trois ans jeté l'affaire Anthony en pâture aux Américains, rassemblant près d'un million de téléspectateurs fascinés, ,ndlr). Dans son show, personne n'est jamais innocent.

Pensez-vous que les charges vont être abandonnées?

Oui, c'est la chose à faire. Simplement, Vance attend un peu, il veut aller par étapes. Pour moi, il aurait dû libérer Strauss Kahn dès vendredi et dire: nous ne saurons jamais ce qui s'est passé dans cette chambre d'hôtel, mais nous ne pouvons continuer cette affaire vu le problème de crédibilité de la femme de chambre.

Last edited by Florian; 07-07-2011 at 07:51 AM..
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  #26  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:56 AM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Quote:
There is only one thing that bothers me about this little scenario, besides the plane ticket and the leisurely lunch DSK supposedly had with his daughter, namely, why would a man in a hurry to leave the country undetected do such a stupid thing as call the hotel and ask them to return his cellphone? Is that the action of a fugitive? All I can say is that, I, Florian, fleeing the scene of one of my many crimes, would have acted more prudently.
This is a good point, but there might be good answers, too.

First, you, florian, would probably not have been in this louche situation in the first place. Second, DSK had several cell phones, apparently, one of which is encrypted. I don't know which one he left at the hotel. But whether it was the encrypted one or not, there can be lots of information on a cell phone that one does not want falling into the wrong hands. The very fact that he lost track of a cell phone could betoken haste in leaving. And he may have been particularly fearful that a cell phone would fall into the hands of Diallo, so he's asking, in essence, "Could you see if the woman who cleaned my room found a cell phone?" And, in his haste and concern, he may have thought that the cell phone could be returned to him via messenger service at the airport or by air courier to France without the knowledge of police (he's still hoping that the police are not involved). Diallo is apparently a very good actress, or she was very upset after her encounter with DSK. But we basically now know that she is a very good actress. There is still the possibility that she was not acting in the immediate aftermath of her encounter with DSK. This is the basic problem facing the police and the prosecution. It took them a long time, too long, to realize that the woman is a consummate actress.

Something that ought to be troubling to people is that DSK is not likely to have been involved in this particular kind of louche situation for the first time here. It may be that this sort of thing, i.e. chambermaids who double as prostitutes, occurs a lot in very high-end hotel suites catering to the international businessman. But that's how it is that this kind of encounter can occur quickly, DSK was not startled in any way, was not taken aback, he was not out of his element. And I agree with the op-ed piece in the NYT of yesterday or so, written by an American anthropologist, which says that it is unseemly for the head of the IMF to be engaging in this sort of conduct with third-world refugees, I actually think that it is unacceptably unseemly, it demonstrates a kind of mepris and out-of-touchness that is horrifying, given his position, or it demonstrates a very serious lack of self-control, or it demonstrates both. And that is why Kahn, the editor of "Marianne," had to retract his "troussage" remark made on TV, a really awful thing to have said. This is also presumably why Luc Ferry took it upon himself to start talking about a French minister who is engaging in homosexual sex tourism with young boys in Asia.

Once DSK leaves the hotel room, his quickest way out of the country is presumably to make his commercial flight, it's too late to charter a private jet. As far as the leisurely lunch goes, as I say, he just needs to make his commercial flight, qua fugitive. That's his best chance. Other than that, he needs to appear calm, so far as possible, so seeking return of the cell phone and having the leisurely lunch are not necessarily inconsistent with wanting to leave the country ASAP.

I thought the most damning part of Diallo's story was that she forgot to mention, for a very long time, that after her sexual encounter with DSK she cleaned another room, not DSK's suite, then went back to clean his suite. This is damning because it implies presence of mind, not a state of emotional upheaval, although it might also imply a kind of robotic behavior, she is in a daze. Similarly, in the Kobe Bryant case, the woman who alleged rape and is working as a desk clerk at a fancy resort, gets dressed after her sexual encounter with Bryant in his room in the wee hours, looks fine, returns to the front desk at 2AM or 3AM in the morning, says nothing to her colleague about anything untoward having happened, her affect is perfectly normal. But I don't think she left anything important behind, like a cell phone, or her panties, which later showed that she had had sexual contact with more than one man before going to Bryant's room.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:23 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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And I agree with the op-ed piece in the NYT of yesterday or so, written by an American anthropologist, which says that it is unseemly for the head of the IMF to be engaging in this sort of conduct with third-world refugees, I actually think that it is unacceptably unseemly, it demonstrates a kind of mepris and out-of-touchness that is horrifying, given his position, or it demonstrates a very serious lack of self-control, or it demonstrates both.
Certainly unseemly, certainly out-of-touch in a horrifying way. The latter may be the "déformation professionnelle" of some politicians. I think for both these reasons DSK's political career is finished. If the case is dismissed and he returns to France, either he says nothing or he confesses. In either case, he is condemned by public opinion.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:46 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, yeah, you're right. Done.

Now we need to start looking for funding.
I'm in. I definitely think Bob should sponsor us.
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  #29  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:59 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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I'm in. I definitely think Bob should sponsor us.
Good luck. But Bob should first sponsor or find sponsors for better diavlogs.

If you come to Paris, you might want to bring some rape protection gear..... some pepper spray or a taser gun. The libido of Frenchmen is notoriously aroused by unchaperoned American females. But if you come with Uncle Eb, I am sure he will fend off any attacks, if only the better to attack you and ocean in your hotel suite.

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Old 07-07-2011, 12:23 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Good luck. But Bob should first sponsor or find sponsors for better diavlogs.
I'm actually planning to post something on a roughly similar topic in the Commenter Court thread in a few minutes.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:47 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Not to worry. My girlfriend would kill me if I went to France without bringing her along.

But France is VERY high on my list of places to visit someday.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Something that ought to be troubling to people is that DSK is not likely to have been involved in this particular kind of louche situation for the first time here. It may be that this sort of thing, i.e. chambermaids who double as prostitutes, occurs a lot in very high-end hotel suites catering to the international businessman.
Please, do not get sucked into Florian's so-far baseless allegations. There is ZERO evidence (to date) that the alleged rape victim was a prostitute. The one tabloid story that appeared has ZERO named sources. No other newspaper has printed a reputable sourced account. On the other hand, there is enough evidence to charge Strauss-Kahn with attempted rape in two cases -- one here, one in France.

I doubt they can get a conviction here, but -- as in the case of Casey Anthony and OJ -- that doesn't mean nothing happened.

Also, I'm sure you are fully aware that rape is not any less a crime if it's committed against a prostitute as opposed to a member of the European elite. The law does not distinguish in social status.
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Do you think there's any way to get the French case in as a prior (assuming French justice were swifter than American and he got convicted there first)?
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Also, I'm sure you are fully aware that rape is not any less a crime if it's committed against a prostitute as opposed to a member of the European elite. The law does not distinguish in social status.
No kidding! Did you even read what ledocs or I wrote? I doubt it. The question remains whether rape can be proved in this case.

Once again you prove that you have impaired reading ability. Now where did you obtain your degree? Do you even have a degree in anything? Are you sure you understand English? Are you sure you understand anything?
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:49 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Do you think there's any way to get the French case in as a prior (assuming French justice were swifter than American and he got convicted there first)?
There's a way, sure, and I don't think there has to be a conviction. Federal law is much looser in sexual assault cases with respect to allowing in past accusations, although it still has to meet basic relevance standards, specifically that it be more probative than prejudicial. There's somewhat of an assumption that it is as compared with how other prior offenses are treated. This, in fact, meant that the rule that currently exists was passed by Congress over the strong recommendation of the judiciary and legal profession, as represented in connection with the rules-making authority. This is unusual.

There are the seeds of a good discussion (diavlog) here about a number of issues, which should be talked about more generally. That would include the intersection of the media/public opinion and criminal law, including the election of DAs and judges (not federal judges) and the politicization of numerous criminal issues. This is one of the reasons the US has the death penalty, as talked about in the other thread, as well as pressure to continually increase sentences and the like. It also would include a discussion about the weird phenomenon of court TV, spawned by OJ, and how this compares with the coverage of court cases in other countries. And, most relevantly, it would include a discussion about various issues and changes in the law and pros and cons when it comes to the trial of sexual assault and molestation cases.

I'm not sure the discussion afterwards would not be as unpleasant and uninteresting to me as the usual one after an Islam-themed topic, but it might be worth a try. Not if it includes Ann Althouse, though.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:26 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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There's a way, sure, and I don't think there has to be a conviction. Federal law is much looser in sexual assault cases with respect to allowing in past accusations, although it still has to meet basic relevance standards, specifically that it be more probative than prejudicial. There's somewhat of an assumption that it is as compared with how other prior offenses are treated. This, in fact, meant that the rule that currently exists was passed by Congress over the strong recommendation of the judiciary and legal profession, as represented in connection with the rules-making authority. This is unusual..
There will be no conviction in the Tristane Banon case as long as DSK remains in the US. By the way, TB filed a suit for attempted rape (difficult to prove under French law) not rape, and DSK's lawyers have already filed a countersuit for defamation. So how exactly could the purely hypothetical outcome of a purely hypothetical lawsuit affect what happens in the US?

Quote:
There are the seeds of a good discussion (diavlog) here about a number of issues, which should be talked about more generally. That would include the intersection of the media/public opinion and criminal law, including the election of DAs and judges (not federal judges) and the politicization of numerous criminal issues.
Dershowitz made the same points in the interview from Le Figaro I posted below.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:36 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Charges against DSK to be dismissed. When will Nafissatou Diallo be deported?

Thanks, Stephanie. Yes, there are a lot of interesting issues to discuss comparing the US judicial system to those of other countries.

I'm hopeful that the charges are not dismissed on SK, but the system should work -- as was discussed in a recent diavlog -- so that guilty people often walk. I think the juries did the right thing in both the OJ and this week's Casey Anthony cases. I'm pretty sure I'd ultimately support a SK acquital too.

Most rape victims in he said/she said cases are worse off. At least SK, like Kobe, Polanski and Michael Jackson, has deep pockets. She can perhaps sue the proverbial pants off him and settle for a few mill.
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  #38  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:50 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Most rape victims in he said/she said cases are worse off. At least SK, like Kobe, Polanski and Michael Jackson, has deep pockets. She can perhaps sue the proverbial pants off him and settle for a few mill.
How so? As soon as DSK leaves the US, if the charges against him are dismissed, he is under no obligation to pay his "victim" anything. And how do you know that the woman in question is a victim anyway?

As usual, you think as sloppily as you write.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:05 PM
jimM47 jimM47 is offline
 
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So how exactly could the purely hypothetical outcome of a purely hypothetical lawsuit affect what happens in the US?
I was going to say that evidence of the accusation might come in for character, since the federal rules are pretty permissive on prior sexual offenses, but in quick googling, I don't see any analogous New York provision (which is what would control).
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:18 PM
jimM47 jimM47 is offline
 
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How so? As soon as DSK leaves the US, if the charges against him are dismissed, he is under no obligation to pay his "victim" anything. And how do you know that the woman in question is a victim anyway?
She could file a civil suit for damages in New York (which is separate from a criminal suit, and has a lower standard of proof). Rusty on this, but: while it might be difficult to enforce a judgment, but there'd be personal jurisdiction over DSK to go forward if you could serve process. If he really cared about never paying, he probably could stay out of New York, but he's rich and presumably DSK values his ability to travel freely.
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