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  #1  
Old 04-03-2008, 05:59 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Facts on the Ground

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  #2  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:12 PM
Eastwest Eastwest is offline
 
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Default Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Bob and Mickey should just ignore the commenters.

a) They're totally unrepresentative of the actual "viewer base."

b) Commenters, almost by their very nature, are digital piranha delighting not so much in truth, civility, or elevated meaning as in scoring points and hopefully extracting a little blood through artful or not-so-artful snark.

So, relax, you're real audience loves you.

I'd go on in this vein, but, having lifted up one corner of the argument, being good students, you can infer the other three.

Cheers (and thanks to BHTV for the access to so many deep conversations from so many different points of view),

EW

Last edited by Eastwest; 04-03-2008 at 07:20 PM..
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  #3  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:47 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastwest View Post
Bob and Mickey should just ignore the commenters.

a) They're totally unrepresentative of the actual "viewer base."

b) Commenters, almost by their very nature, are digital piranha delighting not so much in truth, civility, or elevated meaning as in scoring points and hopefully extracting a little blood through artful or not-so-artful snark.
Says the first pirhana, uh, I mean, guy to post a comment.
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  #4  
Old 04-03-2008, 09:28 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
b) Commenters, almost by their very nature, are digital piranha delighting not so much in truth, civility, or elevated meaning as in scoring points and hopefully extracting a little blood through artful or not-so-artful snark
EastWest, don't be so hard on yourself. Your comments (the ones that don't mention Obama and his supporters) are always excellent.

Seriously, what forum(s) are you comparing this too? Civility seems higher, point-scoring snark is far less prominent and elevated meaning (especially on Sci Sats) is much more apparent on this forum than most of the other forums I have seen.
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  #5  
Old 04-03-2008, 09:37 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
Commenters, almost by their very nature, are digital piranha delighting not so much in truth, civility, or elevated meaning as in scoring points and hopefully extracting a little blood through artful or not-so-artful snark.So, relax, you're real audience loves you.
And pedants! That would be "your real audience," not "you're."

I won't watch vlogs with Mickey anymore. Mickey is a bigot. Every time I hear his snide rants about Mexican immigrants, "welfare" and prisons, I want to vomit.

Bob is a serious thinker whose values I share and whose contributions to our intellectual culture I treasure. What on earth is he doing wasting his time with this schlub?
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2008, 01:55 PM
carson carson is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
I won't watch vlogs with Mickey anymore. Mickey is a bigot. Every time I hear his snide rants about Mexican immigrants, "welfare" and prisons, I want to vomit.
You sound like a great guy and the community here will miss your insightful and nuanced comments but there's no question that addressing that vomiting thing has to take priority.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2008, 03:46 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
You sound like a great guy and the community here will miss your insightful and nuanced comments ...
There is nothing particularly nuanced or insightful about recognizing MK's bigotry. It's blatant and requires no more special insight than one would expect from your average 10-year-old.

I will continue to participate in the community; I just won't watch the vlogs with Mickey in them.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:32 PM
zeke60 zeke60 is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Re: Facts on the Ground

quoting themightypuck: I was a bit troubled by Mr. Wright's seeming assertion that ideas don't matter. I don't intend to create a straw man here, but it seemed to me that this confounding "Marxist" notion was a centerpiece of this discussion. Ideas do matter. Ideas influence actors. Actors make history. Historical materialism is confirmation bias.

If you have trouble with the fact of historical materialism because it's associated with Marx, then read Jared Diamond, Marvin Harris, or Bob Wright himself. Assuming you approach their works without any pre-existing bias against historical materialism, the way you view the world and how it works will never be the same. And anyway, I don't think Mr.Wright meant that ideas don't matter, because if he did his own admirable notion of nonzero sumness wouldn't be the centerpiece of his approach to foreign policy.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Grace Grace is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

I agree.

I've only commented twice. The first time to chide Bob for giggling at Mormon holy garments. I was called a prude, and quickly scuttled back to my lurking spot.

In my second post I cheered the return of the weekly Mickey/Bob diavlogs, even confessing that I a few months ago I recognized Mickey's brother in our local supermarket (from BH.TV), and said to him that Bloggingheads rules. And now I learn that Mickey worries about those of us who cheered his more frequent visits--that perhaps we're a little off.

Hmmmm.

I'm still glad he's back. Even when they talk about nothing, I enjoy the banter. But perhaps I'll scuttle back to the no comment zone for another rest.
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2008, 10:23 PM
bham bham is offline
 
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Default Mickey's tunnel vision on race...

It's interesting that the first and ONLY gripe Mickey mentioned with regard to racial views was blacks towards whites. Furthermore, when Bob mentioned that it may be an old school reaction by older blacks from the Jim Crow era faced severe racism in their daily lives, Mickey claimed "or it might just be a lazy habit". Anger and resentment at extreme, sometimes violent racism, is "a lazy habit"? For the record, I am not calling Mickey racist. Whenever you point out that someone's opinion on race doesn't jibe with reality, people like to minimize your statement by saying "what I'm a racist now?" It's a cheap trick that allows them to dodge the question.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2008, 10:24 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Grace:

Please feel free to comment more regularly. I don't remember the Mormon underwear comment, but I do remember the comment you posted about meeting Steve Kaus. That was a good one.

Chances are, if someone chides you, someone else will defend you. And of course, I'm sure you can defend yourself, as well. You'll see the occasional bit of snark and bombast, but don't take it too personally. Pretty much everyone that says obnoxious things is at least half-jesting. The few who aren't are just trolls hiding behind anonymity, and they can't hurt you.

Quote:
And now I learn that Mickey worries about those of us who cheered his more frequent visits--that perhaps we're a little off.
Mickey is never to be taken seriously when he talks about anything to do with this site, particularly when referring to the commenters. That's just standard blogospheric abrasiveness.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2008, 10:52 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Wow, a positive referrence from Bob (unless that was sarcasm) and a visual taunt from Mickey. I'm truly honored. And mentioned in the company of Brendan, no less.

Today-ay-ay-ay...I consider myself-elf-elf-elf....the luckiest-est-est....
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2008, 03:19 AM
Allan Allan is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

One of the reasons Mickey does not get a lot of favourable comments is
that he often has made it clear he does not read the comments.

I am sure that the majority of Blogginghead viewers do like Mickey
(how can one not like Mickey?)

Unfortunately the comments usually are skewed against Mickey
since there is a small contingent of loony-leftoids
who do most of the posting here.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2008, 03:23 AM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Was this post intended to have this strange stanza-like format? It reads like verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan View Post
One of the reasons Mickey does not get a lot of favourable comments is
that he often has made it clear he does not read the comments.

I am sure that the majority of Blogginghead viewers do like Mickey
(how can one not like Mickey?)

Unfortunately the comments usually are skewed against Mickey
since there is a small contingent of loony-leftoids
who do most of the posting here.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2008, 05:17 AM
Allan Allan is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

All of life is a poem
if formatted properly.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2008, 08:16 AM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Race

It's painful to listen to these guys discussing black people.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2008, 08:20 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Allan:

Speaking as one of the loony leftoids, allow me to make clear that I do, in fact, like Mickey. My criticism of him reflects disappointment in his recent performances. I would like to see him get his groove back, that's all.

It is also untrue, at least in my case, that the explanation for the negative commentary is related to his tendency not to read the comments. In fact, I posted what I did in the hope that someone would call it to his attention.
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2008, 02:46 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastwest View Post
Bob and Mickey should just ignore the commenters.

a) They're totally unrepresentative of the actual "viewer base."

b) Commenters, almost by their very nature, are digital piranha delighting not so much in truth, civility, or elevated meaning as in scoring points and hopefully extracting a little blood through artful or not-so-artful snark.

So, relax, you're real audience loves you.

I'd go on in this vein, but, having lifted up one corner of the argument, being good students, you can infer the other three.

Cheers (and thanks to BHTV for the access to so many deep conversations from so many different points of view),

EW
As to your first point that Bob and Mickey should ignore us:
The depth and insight of your comments makes this nearly impossible.

A) Please explain how you have determined the "actual viewer base."

B) Does this account for your artless, solipsistic attacks on anyone who isn't you?
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2008, 05:29 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Uh oh, wait till Mickey sees this:

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.c...l.php#comments
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2008, 06:32 PM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Ignore the Commenters Mickey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Awesome. Looks like mickey better pack up for the east coast. He should move anyway since he is annoyed be all that spanish chatter around him. What would happen first, president Barr or mickey learning spanish ???
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  #21  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:28 PM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Mickey overstates Bob's wussiness.

I'm pretty sure Mickey is wrong, here, in saying Bob was all wetting-the-bed in fear of blowback after Saddam's death tape leaked.

For whatever reason, Dingalinks don't "take" on diavlogs past a certain vintage, but if one goes to this 1/3/07 diavlog and scroll to 2:08 within the first chapter ("Saddam cell phone snuff film"), Bob says, perfectly clamly and with little concern:
Quote:
You can imagine some jihadists making use of that video, all though of course traditionally he is not a friend of the jihadists... it plays a lot worse outside or Iraq than within it. I'm sure a lot of Sunnis are gonna hate it, but they were about as worked up as they were gonna get; I don't see it giving them a major energy boost or anything
Now of course we could get some people in here to dispute the first lineBob said, but that's not the issue. One thing Bob certainly doesn't say is anything approximating what Mickey misattributes to him. So what's the deal Mickey? Why you gotta play Bob like that?
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Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 04-03-2008 at 07:31 PM..
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:34 PM
otto otto is offline
 
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Default WTF

Mickey reads the second page of comments?!? I didn't think anyone read the second page of comments.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Nate Nate is offline
 
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Default Re: WTF

I look forward to seeing the traveling version of Bob vs Mickey next week.
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2008, 10:54 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: WTF

Maybe he thought there would be pictures...like Playboy.
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2008, 11:35 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: WTF

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Maybe he thought there would be pictures...like Playboy.
Cheese and rice, not so loud. What if Mickey's mom hears?
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:37 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Mickey overstates Bob's wussiness.

Bob, do you realize that when you throw in your 'immigrants?' question on what might be bothering Mickey, you automatically disqualify yourself by refusing to include the word 'iilegal'?

If you don't understand Mickey's position, how could you possibly begin to have a valid opinion on it?
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2008, 08:53 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Mickey overstates Bob's wussiness.

I'm glad that both Mickey and Bob used the term 'race' (re: eugenics) when what I'm hoping they meant was 'species'.

This at least precludes anyone demonizing the Mickster without also throwing Basra Bob under the bus.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2008, 12:13 AM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Re: Mickey overstates Bob's wussiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
This at least precludes anyone demonizing the Mickster without also throwing Basra Bob under the bus.
"Basra Bob" = epic.
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2008, 01:47 AM
a Duoist a Duoist is offline
 
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Default Re: Mickey overstates Bob's wussiness.

Intellectual history counts when a subsequent scholar credits the prior thinking with its influence, or when outside observers can make a better than merely reasonable case that a prior influence is at work. So, paradigm-shifting (Kuhn) thinking like Freud's, Darwin's, or Marx's, influences subsequent intellectual arguments for centuries. But, is then Hillary a fascist because of similarities between her ideals and fascism's doctrines?

Please, the square peg will still not fit into the round hole, despite the best efforts by those writers offering answers than the few intellectual writers asking questions.
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  #30  
Old 04-03-2008, 08:38 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Dingalinks and etymology

My moment of infamy, which Mickey attempts to undermine. For the record, I deny that Mickey is the finest American I have ever known, I deny ever having said that, and I call upon Mickey to produce documentation to back up his assertion. Which he can't do. Which he won't even try to do, because that one day last week of reading comments doubtless cleared his conscience for the next year.

The most modern pop-culture reference Bob has ever made!

Always good: Recognition of strengths and stating achievable corporate goals.

Unrelated: I have long had my suspicions about the true meaning of the name piscivorous. I am dubious that it has anything to do with dietary preferences, and instead expresses that said persona, in fact, claims to be something like a cunning linguist. Pisc, do you deny?
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  #31  
Old 04-05-2008, 12:16 AM
Happy Hominid Happy Hominid is offline
 
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Default Very Funny, BJ!

But let me add a less humorous one. Bob is more sanguine:

http://www.bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs...4&out=00:44:50

And so am I. Well, I'll go further. We have no idea what's going to happen whenever we leave Iraq. Sure, it could be bad. That's certainly a possibility. But they might muddle through without too much bloodshed. Again, we don't know.

And certainly the right-wing bloggers, talking-heads and politicians have been pretty consistently wrong for the last 6 years so how about we just don't listen to their predictions? Instead, let's get our children home from the Middle East, offer HALF the money we spend every month there on economically strategic incentives for everyone there to get together (and as a way to heal the country). We could do all this while simultaneously proving to the world that we aren't there to control oil interests or to bring Christianity or that we are intent on world hegemony.

Now, you might say I'm a dreamer. I hope some day you will join me. Even you, Mickey.
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2008, 09:10 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Very Funny, BJ!

John:

I agree with you in general about the situation in Iraq, and certainly say "hear, hear" to the idea that the hawks in this country have pretty much lost all credibility, but on this particular point, one thing that Bob glosses over a little bit is the reality of the presence of US air power. While I think that there is a lot to the notion that the other parties involved are capable of working things out for themselves, having a bunch of bombers at one's disposal does tip the scales a bit. It's hard to say what Sadr's attitude might have been absent this factor.
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2008, 01:20 PM
Happy Hominid Happy Hominid is offline
 
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Default Re: Very Funny, BJ!

Brendan, I hear what you're saying and I'm fully aware that we, frankly, don't have a clue what's going to happen when we leave. But we should never have been there. We aren't going to install democracy. Either they will take it or they will rebel against it. Our military presence in the Middle East is damaging to our prestige with all Middle Eastern countries except Israel. It's damaging to our reputation with Muslims worldwide. It damages our relations with nearly all of our allies. It makes us less safe in a dangerous world. We have to get out at some point, so why not cut our losses and get out? We can still assist the forces that we find favorable and we can still target terrorists (specific, clear enemies) wherever we find them.
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2008, 01:30 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Very Funny, BJ!

John:

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough in my last reply to you. I do pretty much agree with your outlook on the general situation. I was only trying to make a point about the recent Basra conflict specifically. To reiterate, it's fine for Bob to have taken away from the event the observation that different Iraqi factions could solve something for themselves, but it was a little bit wrong not to take into account the presence of American firepower. For example, Sadr may not have been as willing to negotiate, or may have asked for different terms, if he knew for sure that the capability to bomb the city didn't exist.
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  #35  
Old 04-06-2008, 12:29 AM
Happy Hominid Happy Hominid is offline
 
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Default Re: Very Funny, BJ!

Yeah, but who's gonna listen to YOU, with that middle name of yours?
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  #36  
Old 04-06-2008, 11:35 AM
Loren Michael Loren Michael is offline
 
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Default Re: China tidbit

Minor thing, Bob mentions that China caps or restricts upload speeds or something.

I am in Hangzhou, and have been since last summer.

Here is my current record for download speed, set in a public coffee shop last month: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7...gcancergn0.jpg

I don't take screen shots of my upload speeds, because they regularly meet and sometimes exceed that by at least 100 kB/s.

Yes, it is a pain to access Wikipedia and the like, but using things like bittorrent is essentially completely unrestricted in my experience.

Which reminds me: TORRENT DIAVLOGS, PLEASE. Direct downloads (at least from BH.tv) and iTunes downloads are terribly slow.

EDIT: I should add, this is at least 4x faster than anything I experienced in the States.

Last edited by Loren Michael; 04-06-2008 at 12:46 PM..
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  #37  
Old 04-06-2008, 11:53 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: China tidbit

Loren:

Pardon me for quibbling, but the image you show indicates upload speeds of 269.1 kB/s, compared to download speeds of 759.9 kB/s. Since this appears to be a shot of progress during a torrent session, it's hard to say for sure, but the graph does seem to contradict your claim. Maybe it's different when you're just doing a straight upload from your computer to one other computer.

Your suggestion that BH.tv make their episodes available for torrenting is a good one, though. Have you emailed them with this idea?
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2008, 12:51 PM
Loren Michael Loren Michael is offline
 
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Default Re: China tidbit

At the moment, I'm not downloading anything, that was the only picture I kept around (as I wasn't aware speeds like that were even possible in public wi-fi areas... I probably have leg cancer or something) but as I mentioned unclearly before, I regularly get upload speeds that regularly exceed that download speed by at least 100 kB/s. That is, what, a megabyte a second or so.

Regardless, the upload speed in that picture is pretty fast, even if it's not as silly as that download speed.

And yes, emailed the torrent suggestion a while ago but no changes.

Last edited by Loren Michael; 04-06-2008 at 12:54 PM..
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2008, 10:46 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: China tidbit

Loren:

Thanks for clarifying, especially in noting that the units were, in fact, kilobytes per second, and not kilobits.

I do know that the principal reason download speeds are so much faster here in the US is an artificial one. Most ISPs purposefully throttle upload speed for reasons that are not clear to me, although I suspect it has something to do with worries about people hosting web sites on their home machines, and the potential legal and security headaches that come along with that. So, if I struggle to shake off my provincial outlook, I guess there is no reason not to believe your claim about uploading being faster than downloading where you are.

Still, though, the graph you linked to did show fairly healthy download speeds, more than adequate to download BH.tv episodes, I should think. Unless, of course, what you showed was an outlier. In that case, maybe grab the audio instead of the video?

On the lack of responsiveness to your torrent suggestion, I can only say, hang in there. I get the impression that the admin staff of BH.tv is small and quite busy. Try another email in a few days, and don't hesitate to start a new thread in the General section, to try to garner support. I myself don't often use torrenting, but there might be others out there who would share your desires.
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2008, 06:28 PM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: China tidbit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Michael View Post
Minor thing, Bob mentions that China caps or restricts upload speeds or something.

I am in Hangzhou, and have been since last summer.

Here is my current record for download speed, set in a public coffee shop last month: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7...gcancergn0.jpg

I don't take screen shots of my upload speeds, because they regularly meet and sometimes exceed that by at least 100 kB/s.

Yes, it is a pain to access Wikipedia and the like, but using things like bittorrent is essentially completely unrestricted in my experience.

Which reminds me: TORRENT DIAVLOGS, PLEASE. Direct downloads (at least from BH.tv) and iTunes downloads are terribly slow.

EDIT: I should add, this is at least 4x faster than anything I experienced in the States.
Even though Comcast says they will stop throttling torrent traffic I suspect that they are lying along with ATT and verizon etc. The chinese govt. uses the same tech as Comcast so enjoy that torrent traffic while it lasts.
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