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  #1  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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  #2  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:05 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

SuperPACS are like the Allied bombing of Dresden in WWII.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:14 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
SuperPACS are like the Allied bombing of Dresden in WWII.
Didn't we have a big stupid fight about military metaphors in political rhetoric last year? Do we really have to do this again? Yes, Matthews needs to take a deep breath and keep some perspective, but does anybody think he was not being hyperbolic in the same way that political commentators are always hyperbolic about such things?
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:59 AM
jimM47 jimM47 is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

Chris Matthews doesn't need perspective, he needs to embrace being a caricature of himself. (Obligatory clip from "Network")
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2012, 05:27 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by jimM47 View Post
Chris Matthews doesn't need perspective, he needs to embrace being a caricature of himself. (Obligatory clip from "Network")
When I think of the "mad as hell" guy, I always think of Glenn Beck or Lawrence O'Donnell. Chris Matthews is just an average dude who likes to make sexual innuendo towards Erin Burnett.
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:57 AM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
When I think of the "mad as hell" guy, I always think of Glenn Beck or Lawrence O'Donnell. Chris Matthews is just an average dude who likes to make sexual innuendo towards Erin Burnett.
Is this what I am missing by not having cable tv?
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:03 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by bkjazfan View Post
Is this what I am missing by not having cable tv?
I don't have TV either. I have the YouTubes.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:11 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by jimM47 View Post
he needs to embrace being a caricature of himself.
It seems obvious that he does. That's been his shtick forever.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:27 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
It seems obvious that he does. That's been his shtick forever.
He used to be way more normal.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:20 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimM47 View Post
Chris Matthews doesn't need perspective, he needs to embrace being a caricature of himself. (Obligatory clip from "Network")
Matthews also had some bizarre rant about the GOP being composed of the "garbage" from the Democratic party. Then he went into an ignorant spiel about how Ron Paul had the same sane, rational, old foreign policy views of Barry Goldwater. You know, the guy who was so interventionist he was defeated for his openness to deploying nuclear weapons on Vietnam.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:48 PM
chamblee54 chamblee54 is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Barry Goldwater. You know, the guy who was so interventionist he was defeated for his openness to deploying nuclear weapons on Vietnam.
I was ten in 1964, so I might not be the best judge of events. America was in shock after the murder of John Kennedy. LBJ was assured of victory, barring a dead woman or a live man in a Texas bedroom. (LBJ didn't get caught, anyway)
And now for something completely different... One of these guys... they sound alike when you are multi tasking... said something about Mr. Romney losing Iowa by six or seven points. Instead, Mittens won by eight votes.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:59 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by chamblee54 View Post
I was ten in 1964, so I might not be the best judge of events. America was in shock after the murder of John Kennedy. LBJ was assured of victory, barring a dead woman or a live man in a Texas bedroom. (LBJ didn't get caught, anyway)
Well that's true. I was just thinking of the Daisy ad. Ron Paul is no Barry Goldwater.
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:37 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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Originally Posted by chamblee54 View Post
And now for something completely different... One of these guys... they sound alike when you are multi tasking... said something about Mr. Romney losing Iowa by six or seven points. Instead, Mittens won by eight votes.
chamblee54
The best stuff happened right at the end. There were precinct tallies missing. CNN called some Republican Party official at her home and woke her up. She said all her precincts had reported hours before.

Much drama as Wolf Blitzer drilled down for us.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:32 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Didn't we have a big stupid fight about military metaphors in political rhetoric last year? Do we really have to do this again? Yes, Matthews needs to take a deep breath and keep some perspective, but does anybody think he was not being hyperbolic in the same way that political commentators are always hyperbolic about such things?
In order for hyperbole to work it has to be somewhat close to reality. This is delusional and makes me wonder who he believes his audience is. Keith Olbermann?

But since you don't like criticizing this kind of thing, I'll be interested to see your reaction the next time someone on the right says something really, really stupid.
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Last edited by badhatharry; 01-04-2012 at 11:40 AM..
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:53 AM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Santorum, Romney, Paul

Well, Santorum edged out Romney. I guess this means open season on Santorum now. Good news for Romney, because no one will trash him.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:35 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

I read that Romney won with 25% of the vote. This is such a good illustration of the media's laughable obsession with constructing a horse race story.

Won? Really? What did he win exactly?

A more logical headline would be "Iowans show support for five Republican candidates".
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2012, 11:29 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
A more logical headline would be "Iowans show support for five Republican candidates".
cute. but really only three.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:13 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
cute. but really only three.
Given the volatility of the electorate this year, I really don't understand how someone can spend months campaigning and then give up based on the results from a few farmers in Iowa.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:22 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Given the volatility of the electorate this year, I really don't understand how someone can spend months campaigning and then give up based on the results from a few farmers in Iowa.
It is amazing, isn't it? I think the American primary system of winnowing out candidates is one of the most peculiar in the western world. And why, for heaven's sake, should Iowa lead?
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:30 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
And why, for heaven's sake, should Iowa lead?
Well, there is some logic to leading with small states. It forces the candidates to talk to real voters. And the rest of us can watch on TV. If California were first, it would be a battle of competing television advertisements.
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:31 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
It is amazing, isn't it? I think the American primary system of winnowing out candidates is one of the most peculiar in the western world. And why, for heaven's sake, should Iowa lead?
Maybe it would be good if you listed the things you thought weren't peculiar about America. It would certainly take less time.
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:38 PM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
It is amazing, isn't it? I think the American primary system of winnowing out candidates is one of the most peculiar in the western world.
If it were only the primaries... Take the Electoral College, that nonsensical anachronistic piece of political engineering. Or take the abomination that is the US Senate, which puts California on a par with Wyoming, even though the latter has a grand total of 5 residents (Dick Cheney + 4 illegals working for him). Or take voting on a work day, tuesday (so farmers can spend all of sunday at church and then get on their horses to be at the polling station by tuesday, meanwhile screwing over the farmers addicted to monday night football). Or take the Supreme Court: 9 political appointees to read the tea leaves of the US Constitution and tell us all sorts of things that are not there, such as whether a woman can get an abortion. Or take the US Constitution, for that matter, a virtually unamendable document that is sufficiently ambiguous to mean whatever pleases our Delphic sybils on the supreme court. In fact they could fire all 9 of them and replace them with a monkey tossing a coin on his nose and the outcome would be just as historically informed.

Last edited by ohreally; 01-04-2012 at 07:46 PM..
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:42 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

Quote:
Or take the abomination that is the US Senate, which puts California on a par with Wyoming, even though the latter has a grand total of 5 residents (Dick Cheney + 4 illegals working for him).
Dick Cheney is the illegal, not the people who mow his lawn.
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2012, 08:14 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Dick Cheney is the illegal, not the people who mow his lawn.
I think we can put Dick Cheney and Obama in the same camp now. Obama had threatened to veto the NDAA why? Because it didn't give him enough executive power. Yep, Bush/Cheney/John Yoo power wasn't enough for him. He needed more. And to get more, he made it look, politically, as if he was opposed to such power by threatening a veto. Genius.

Now seems a good time to make a comparison to a racist, anti-Semitic crank, member of the homophobic, Islamophobic party on what to do with Al-Alawki.

I understand why someone would become a neo-con now.
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Last edited by sugarkang; 01-04-2012 at 08:21 PM..
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2012, 04:15 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
..... Or take the US Constitution, for that matter, a virtually unamendable document that is sufficiently ambiguous to mean whatever pleases our Delphic sybils on the supreme court. In fact they could fire all 9 of them and replace them with a monkey tossing a coin on his nose and the outcome would be just as historically informed.
That's my impression. You have to give the sybils credit, though, for subtlety ingenuity, sophistry....what the Germans call Spitzfindigkeit....in updating an 18th document intended for a very different kind of society. At least they are men of learning. American presidents, on the other hand.... I know, I know, what I was going to say isn't a very democratic.
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  #26  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:35 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Given the volatility of the electorate this year, I really don't understand how someone can spend months campaigning and then give up based on the results from a few farmers in Iowa.
The strategy of some of them is based on winning in Iowa and getting momentum from that, particularly those who don't have the money for national campaigns. (This is clearly part of Santorum's plan, and was Huckabee's, etc.) Doing well in Iowa tends to help a lot in the polls overall taken immediately after, as was seen by Obama post-Iowa, somewhat by Huckabee, by how things changed for Kerry, etc.

Bachmann in particular is from a neighboring state, was born in Iowa, and was particularly well-suited for the Iowa electorate (or so the story goes). If she couldn't do well in Iowa, no point in continuing.

Perry, on the other hand, has lots of money and may be able to do well in the South, so might as well continue. (The problem there is he's damaged himself so much.)
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
The strategy of some of them is based on winning in Iowa and getting momentum from that, particularly those who don't have the money for national campaigns.
Right. I'm just saying the voters are very fluid this year. And all the candidates are gaining momentum in terms of name recognition. Even after Iowa and New Hampshire, I think it's early enough that a right or wrong step can bolster or destroy any one of them.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:46 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Right. I'm just saying the voters are very fluid this year. And all the candidates are gaining momentum in terms of name recognition. Even after Iowa and New Hampshire, I think it's early enough that a right or wrong step can bolster or destroy any one of them.
Yeah, that's definitely true.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:05 PM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

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Perry, on the other hand, has lots of money and may be able to do well in the South, so might as well continue. (The problem there is he's damaged himself so much.)
I love this meme that Perry burned silly amounts of money for a 10% showing, when Romney's PAC and Paul's crackpots gave them their wins.

Yes, Perry, the true conservative you can trust with your tax money!
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:01 PM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Given the volatility of the electorate this year, I really don't understand how someone can spend months campaigning and then give up based on the results from a few farmers in Iowa.
Unless, of course, your entire strategy is predicated on a big win in Iowa - and you get 5%! I wonder if Bachmann can even hold her seat now.
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2012, 05:59 PM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Santorum, Romney, Paul

Yes, Romney edged Santorum by eight votes.

And, there was the alternative framing: 75% of Iowa voters dissed Romney!

I guess that assumes Bachmann's supporters didn't just flock to Romney, ut it's likely they would support Santorum.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2012, 08:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

test
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2012, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Iowa (David Weigel & Benjy Sarlin)

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test
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