Science Saturday: Celestial Couch Potatoes (John Horgan & George Johnson)

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by SkepticDoc

What positions are available?

If it was audio only, would the BhTv project be sustainable?

Should we do a fund raiser like NPR, PBS?

What can we do to continue enjoying real, intelligent conversation?

He's talking about the science writing workshop that George conducts in Santa Fe.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by thprop

The Google translation:

LOL! Thank you, thprop.

I'll try my best to tidy it up, but the rhyme will be, well, pushing it.


To both art and science,
This sentence has been cast.
No matter how much we miss,
these programs won't last.

Without love or money
Now this path we will follow.
Until somewhere else we find,
What here we find hollow.

But for the sake of knowledge,
wisdom and curiosity,
We console ourselves at the moment,
With hope but not animosity.


A huge reward,
The future will lift,
while we wait with patience,
Science is our gift!

Ocean

[Ocean]

Another entertaining walk-through science topics by J&G.

Not much to add to their conversation, except a couple of thoughts elicited by the reference to Trivers' book.

According to John, Trivers is an irascible, deceiving individual, with bipolar disorder, who's had a hard time performing to his capacity. Apparently he has been generous in deceiving his significant others. It is of human nature, to reflect on one's shortcomings, engage in self loathing and at the same time try to normalize such behavior by coming up with a narrative that basically states that we are all deceivers. So, how can one not?

Does that mean that his ideas are wrong? No, but they are suspicious.

And as usual, with evo psych, there's a lot of interpretation in the light of the results. At least as told by John, altruism and selfishness lose meaning. We invented the idea of altruism to explain something that people do. We also invented the idea of selfishness to explain other attributes. We can invent how they relate to each other. And why.

Could we get the same results, procuring allies, investing in potential future returns, in ways that don't involve wanting to help others, wanting to decrease others' suffering, or at times even self sacrifice? If that's the case, and I think it is, then there's more to altruism than self deception. Self deception exists and plentifully. But so what? There's also plenty of good things about people. Perhaps they are anomalies. But that's how we're built.

Just random thoughts for what may well be our last Science Saturday with John and George. (Hope not).

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by Diane1976

The left/right pairings sometimes seem like dialogs of the deaf, as they say, but they don't have to be.

I have not found this to be true, but I suppose there are probably a few exceptions. I think it is in the comments section that one experiences this kind of discord. But that's pretty typical of comments sections on the internet. People identify with those who share their views and fight with those who don't. Also, there is the ever popular one-ups-manship that inevitably goes on. C'est la vie.

The same is true of discussions between people who see themselves as being on the same "side" in those terms. They can be boring if all they do is agree with other, rather than discussing their common ground and their differences.

Yes, I get a little impatient with people who say stuff like "conservatives are anti-science" and don't get any pushback from their interlocutor. I had to hand it to Andy Revkin recently when he challenged the guy from Grist for saying stuff like that.

This, btw, is why someone like Christopher Hitchens was so interesting, and, even now, some people are convinced he abandoned the left, so to speak, while it seems so obvious to me that he didn't. Matt Lewis said Huntsman, no matter how conservative he is, doesn't "sound" like a conservative. And, that's what I think about Hitchens, no matter what he said he still "sounded" like a leftist to me, if you listened enough. And it's interesting to think about what that really means.

I was not an avid reader of Hitchens but read enough to know that he was a fine writer. The most vivid thing I noted about him was his utter disrespect for religion which I thought, although he explained it exquisitely, was quite overblown. But it got him attention which I think he enjoyed quite a little bit. And BTW, he explicitly said he was not a conservative.

[dublins1bastard]

"I'm a little man. He's, he's a great man. Um, the man's enlarged my mind."
I always try to steer traffic/friends to this site, but they all say its just too hard to get through. Heh!, shows true colors of the educated today.

[Hume's Bastard]

I'm not going to comment on the future of bh.tv. I just hope I can watch a diavlog a few times a week. And, I really hope there is a Science Saturday-like diavlog on once a week. This is my favorite feature, and I look forward to it every Saturday. Thank you John Horgan and George Johnson for these classic diavlogs and for all the other guests you have engaged when not talking together.

I hope 2012 is a good year for me and bh.tv, because it is the first podcast I listen to that is provided free that I would consider contributing money to.

I love my Kindle. But then, I have few choices here in South Korea to use hardware that can bridge the international gap without too many fees or regulation. I still cannot download certain material or receive software or hardware from most non-Korean outlets. In Korea I have to sign contracts for equipment and services I don't need. The Kindle is exactly what I wanted and I didn't have to pay more for it than it actually costs to make. After that I want to buy a notebook, because I need a keyboard. The tablet is fine for games and media, and maybe with a keyboard connected with USB might be doable. But, it's mostly a social media phenomenon.

[Hume's Bastard]

Thank you for this feature. I really hope you and John can find a way to kep talking and letting us benefit from it.

[discipline]

Another vote from me for continuing Science Saturday. It's what turned me on to Bloggingheads, podcasting, and indeed, science communication in general. As a scientist, it's been fascinating to see how science journalists think -- and I've learned a lot too. Keep it up John and George, please!

[harkin]

Originally Posted by GJohnson

Bob did hint in an email that there may be ways for John and me to contribute in the future.

One of the better things about SciSat is there is always a chuckle or two to be had. Hopefully more 'hints' will be forthcoming.

And while George and John had some interesting moments, I was one of the few (I guess) who welcomed fresh faces on most Saturdays.

Originally Posted by Diane

The left/right pairings sometimes seem like dialogs of the deaf, as they say, but they don't have to be.

Some of the best pairings on BhTV were when diametrically-opposed mindsets came together. Glenn Loury and Amy Wax was tremendous because all the gloating about how Glenn was going to mop the floor with her after her earlier impressive showing looked ridiculous when a woman of intellect and reason dismantled conventional liberal passive-prop (while at the same time receiving ludicrous smears in the comments). True, it's not like TV networks where you can outnumber conservatives or shout them down but that is the real beauty of Bloggingheads.

This, btw, is why someone like Christopher Hitchens was so interesting,............And, that's what I think about Hitchens, no matter what he said he still "sounded" like a leftist to me, if you listened enough. And it's interesting to think about what that really means.

It was the rare political dialoguer here who didn't accuse 'BS!' while at the same time embrace it with both arms.

Bob, the site may change but I still want to see Douglas Murray!

Lastly - Merry Christmas everyone

[Mr. Morden]

Originally Posted by David Edenden

As far as I can understand, Bob is saying that if any regular contributors can continue if they organize themselves into a regular show. That is why "This Week in Blog" will continue ... because Bill, Kristen and Matt are interested and self-motivated to organize themselves.

Really? The sense that I got from this:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/402...4:03&out=18:43

is that Bob would still welcome the regulars to come on rather sporadically, and it wouldn't have to be weekly or even monthly. Just that they can come on if they're willing to set things up themselves, and be more self-reliant.

[Rigid Designator]

Bloggingheads.tv is one of the few sites I check almost daily. It has a lot of content on US politics that doesn't really interest me, but these science/culture/philosophy related videos are really what keep me coming back. For some reason I thought this format was a sure winner.

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by Rigid Designator

Bloggingheads.tv is one of the few sites I check almost daily. It has a lot of content on US politics that doesn't really interest me, but these science/culture/philosophy related videos are really what keep me coming back. For some reason I thought this format was a sure winner.

nothing lasts forever.

[Richard from Amherst]

Bob:

I for one would miss blogging heads if it disappeared and would especially
mis Science Saterday. I look forward to hearing from George & John and their insights and personal travails.

While I wish you well with your endeavors at at the Atlantic Monthly I hope you will find a way to keep Bloggingheads.TV on line.

Richard from Amherst

[sugarkang]

Originally Posted by Diane1976

And, that's what I think about Hitchens, no matter what he said he still "sounded" like a leftist to me, if you listened enough.

And if you listen even more you might find a clip of him on C-SPAN talking about how refreshing it was that, in America, there are these people called Objectivists, disciples of Ayn Rand, who thought that there was too much pity and welfare for the poor.

Pretty WTF for a leftist I'd say.

[Globalcop]

Originally Posted by harkin

... Glenn Loury and Amy Wax was tremendous because all the gloating about how Glenn was going to mop the floor with her after her earlier impressive showing looked ridiculous when a woman of intellect and reason dismantled conventional liberal passive-prop (while at the same time receiving ludicrous smears in the comments). True, it's not like TV networks where you can outnumber conservatives or shout them down but that is the real beauty of Bloggingheads....

Funny, if you search for Amy Wax or Wax, Amy in the BHTV db, her name comes up as a participant, but it says there are no diavlogs with her, "no results."

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Globalcop

Funny, if you search for Amy Wax or Wax, Amy in the BHTV db, her name comes up as a participant, but it says there are no diavlogs with her, "no results."

Here.

[Peter Sibley]

Nothing Bob has said has led me to believe that a Harvard rock star like Steven Pinker wouldn't reappear. Or even a peripheral smarty like Yigal Schleifer on Turkey. Lotta doom, and not much to back it up.

[consider]

This is interesting... Amy Wax's daivlog with Glenn Lowery was deleted but the comments remain. But her daivlog with Adam Serwer remains intact a week earlier. It looks like Lowery wanted his daivlog deleted. Can Bob Wright tell us if that was the case? Have other Daivlogs been erased?

The Erased Bloggingheads....
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/31656

Serwer and Wax
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/31524

[fredsbreakfast]

George - One of my happiest communication media experiences these past few years has been watching you and John do Science Saturday. I sincerely hope you two can find a way to continue with this cool format of Bob's. I don't understand why more people aren't watching - you two guys are fascinating, and your enthusiasm for science is inspiring. It's also quite a pleasure to see how the two of you interact and connect with each other. Most of the others doing Science Saturday have been fun and interesting too, but it'd be wonderful to see you and John together regularly. There must be some way to attract new viewers. Seems to me the problem is marketing; too few adults and children are aware of this thing you do.

[consider]

It turns out the Rainbow Coallition - DARPA conspiracy theory I was forming is wrong.

The Wax Loury episode is up -- my computer was down. Strange glitch.

[Simon Willard]

Originally Posted by Rigid Designator

... these science/culture/philosophy related videos are really what keep me coming back. For some reason I thought this format was a sure winner.

Thanks for posting. Perhaps it would help if more of the lurkers post comments.

[Simon Willard]

Originally Posted by badhatharry

I have not found this to be true, but I suppose there are probably a few exceptions. I think it is in the comments section that one experiences this kind of discord. But that's pretty typical of comments sections on the internet. People identify with those who share their views and fight with those who don't. Also, there is the ever popular one-ups-manship that inevitably goes on. C'est la vie.

Yes, I get a little impatient with people who say stuff like "conservatives are anti-science" and don't get any pushback from their interlocutor. I had to hand it to Andy Revkin recently when he challenged the guy from Grist for saying stuff like that.

Right you are, BadHat. OhReally has overstated the problem. The best diavlogs have an element of disagreement that causes the participants to illuminate the topic from different angles.

In this diavlog, George rightly pushed back against John's nihilistic comments on the value of the Higgs hunt.

I agree the discord of trying to score rhetorical points is a problem. But I learn best when friends with different opinions have a friendly exchange of views.

[Robert Wright]

I'm afraid I have to amend this promise. JimM47 and I *did* tape a Commenter Klatch, but it turned out that only one side of it actually got taped in intelligible form, owing to gremlins that have yet to be identified. Whether a re-tape can be arranged is uncertain. Meanwhile, I have some very heartening news: John and George, in an email exchange prompted by this diavlog, professed a willingness to do more Bloggingheads dialogues--"now and then" as John put it. So stay tuned to find out what exactly "now and then" means. I hope it means a lot.

[Simon Willard]

Originally Posted by Robert Wright

I'm afraid I have to amend this promise. JimM47 and I *did* tape a Commenter Klatch, but it turned out that only one side of it actually got taped in intelligible form, owing to gremlins that have yet to be identified. Whether a re-tape can be arranged is uncertain. Meanwhile, I have some very heartening news: John and George, in an email exchange prompted by this diavlog, professed a willingness to do more Bloggingheads dialogues--"now and then" as John put it. So stay tuned to find out what exactly "now and then" means. I hope it means a lot.

Thanks for this hopeful news. You know, Bob, with a few more posts you may succumb to Commenting Addiction.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by Robert Wright

I'm afraid I have to amend this promise. JimM47 and I *did* tape a Commenter Klatch, but it turned out that only one side of it actually got taped in intelligible form, owing to gremlins that have yet to be identified. Whether a re-tape can be arranged is uncertain. Meanwhile, I have some very heartening news: John and George, in an email exchange prompted by this diavlog, professed a willingness to do more Bloggingheads dialogues--"now and then" as John put it. So stay tuned to find out what exactly "now and then" means. I hope it means a lot.

Maybe some of us should "poke" them every now and then to remind them of their promised responsibilities.

[Hume's Bastard]

Thanks for the encouraging news.

How about just sending a Facebook or short email notice about bh.tv's future? It only takes a little composition, and then compiling the list of commenter emails. A few clicks and it's done.

[uncle ebeneezer]

I'm somewhat surprised that Discovery Channel or other sciencey cable outlets have never put together something similar to Sci Sat (with more graphics/video etc.) John/George, might wanna start talking to your agents about exploring possibilities to hit the big time.

[Ocean]

Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer

I'm somewhat surprised that Discovery Channel or other sciencey cable outlets have never put together something similar to Sci Sat (with more graphics/video etc.) John/George, might wanna start talking to your agents about exploring possibilities to hit the big time.

There are lots of science talks/presentations on the internet. But the unique feature here is that Sci Sat is a mix of science-related people (scientists, scientist-wanna-bes, science journalists) being interviewed and the friendly, and definitely more personal conversations with John and George. Like any informal conversation, they share enough to be informative, and yet the areas that are lacking or controversial are the ones that inspire individual researching of the subject (when we all go googling trying to get additional evidence to support our point or to learn) and discussions among commenters. It's a great format and particularly because there shouldn't be much of a political agenda behind (although as we know there's always a political agenda popping up somewhere), the discussions can be more honest and with fewer talking points.

Or so I imagine.

[uncle ebeneezer]

The point I was trying to make, is that it seems to me that a weekly science roundup type program, wold work pretty well on cable. It would be a niche market, but I would think alot of NOVA viewers and BBC watchers would tune in. Even with slightly less gabbing (which I love) and tighter focus I could imagine John, George, Carl Zimmer, Sean Carroll etc., doing an excellent job with that sort of thing if they ever wanted to supplement their writing and could find an outlet willing to take a chance on some broadcast geekery.

[added:] I do agree with you on why it is far better suited for online but don't think that a tv crossover would be totally impossible.