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  #41  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:31 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
When's the last time you read a post where someone pissed all over Heather Hurlburt?
Hurlburt is absolutely terrific, that's why. Likewise, nobody complains about Drezner. It's the suckiness that appalls. Even Frum is drifting towards the reality-based community, except for that bit about the West Bank being part of Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I implore those of you who enjoy spewing your frothy mouthed vitriol
Stop right there.
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:33 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Let's have a low blow in defense of us lowly commenters: None of us are friends with Ann Coulter.
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:34 AM
nyc123 nyc123 is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Dear Bob,

Clip http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/174...9:08&out=59:30 sent to Glenn Reynolds, and voila, he linked to you. You owe me some hit stats, buddy.
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:44 AM
travis68 travis68 is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Hey Bob,

Have you looked into some sort of micropayments method? Being able to give $1 at a time might make the audience feel that they have more control over the process. Good diavlogs can be rewarded.

Regarding civility, you are probably going to need to have a heavy editing hand if you want to achieve that goal. Do it like the NYTimes and only post comments after they've been cleared. Fewer comments are not necessarily a bad thing. Plus the quality will probably be better, since people will most likely just post once or twice in a diavlog and put more thought into what they say.
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  #45  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:44 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
Hurlburt is absolutely terrific, that's why. Likewise, nobody complains about Drezner. It's the suckiness that appalls.
And that's my point isn't it? I like her too, but what about the others who don't meet your standard of terrific? The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters. People can disagree without resorting to ad hominems.

Your personal distaste for Ann Coulter has nothing to do with the validity of her arguments. Gah. I hate getting stuck defending people I disagree with.

Quote:
Stop right there.
Well you should have read further because I was talking to angry people on both sides.

Last edited by sugarkang; 01-30-2009 at 04:47 AM..
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  #46  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:51 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
It's hard to respond to sarcasm. It's often a conversation-stopper.
True. On the other hand, this may well be the intent, or at least, the challenge is along the lines of, "What you've said is so ridiculous, it doesn't dignify anything other than mockery in response. You're free to restate if you think you had a worthwhile point."

Quote:
And of course sometimes it's mistaken for non-sarcasm.
Yes, print does have this problem.
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:51 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis68 View Post
Have you looked into some sort of micropayments method? Being able to give $1 at a time might make the audience feel that they have more control over the process.
I really love this site.
How about a hulu type of model? Ads between topics maybe?
Heck. I don't see why a potential revenue stream needs to be limited to one type of model.

paypal donation buttons, donation pledges, banner ads, etc. WHATEVER!

Just keep bloggingheads going!
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  #48  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:55 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby G View Post
One man's flamebait is another's obvious truism.I've seen lots of dismissive comments made here about religion where the only responses, at least for some time, are an Amen from the atheist congregation.
Yep. Part of the price of participating in the public square. Those objecting to such dismissals are free to explain why they find them offensive. Sometimes this works -- see my last marathon thread with an evangelical Christian whose name escapes me at the moment. [Added: it just came to me: rfrobison.] I thought, and others said, as well, that it turned into a pretty good conversation.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 01-30-2009 at 05:36 AM.. Reason: add name
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  #49  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:22 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by x9#z6 View Post
1) Please have more econ content.
Absolutely. I flip between Paul Krugman's column and Cato's Daily Podcast to try and get a handle on the different viewpoints. I would love to see a Keynesian vs. Austrian.

Quote:
2) I miss the McWhorter Loury diavlogs and if you get them back I hope they don't restrict themselves to just topics of race.
Yeah McWhorter is just one of my favorite diavloggers. I especially liked the episode where he destroyed Ta-Nehisi Coates in logic as well as civility.
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  #50  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:29 AM
Nogbad Nogbad is offline
 
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Default Sarcasm

Are we to refrain from sarcasm
even when the guests
themselves
address one another sarcastically?
(As has been known to happen,
even in the Mickey-Bob dialogues)

(Please do not regard this comment as sarcastic).
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  #51  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:39 AM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
And that's my point isn't it? I like her too, but what about the others who don't meet your standard of terrific? The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters. People can disagree without resorting to ad hominems.

Your personal distaste for Ann Coulter has nothing to do with the validity of her arguments. Gah. I hate getting stuck defending people I disagree with.
That's probably a bad example because she operates at a lower level than I've ever seen this board sink to. It's too much to ask that we treat with respect diavloguers who don't treat anyone else that way. I'm not sure there have been any that bad (although a lot of people seemed to take the "Liberal Fascism" thing personally) but hypothetically..
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  #52  
Old 01-30-2009, 05:59 AM
MikeDrew MikeDrew is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I called David Frum an infant. Am I part of the problem?
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  #53  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:03 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
Most of this type of sniping generally comes from the left. When's the last time you read a post where someone pissed all over Heather Hurlburt?
Claymisher already addressed this, but I'll add: Go look at some of the things said about Bill Scher, Jane Hamsher, Matt Yglesias, Rosa Brooks, Emily Bazelon, Joshua Cohen, and Dahlia Lithwick, just to name a few, not to mention Bob Wright.

Quote:
Dare I say the ingroup-i-ness also exists on the left ...
Don't know why you'd think you'd have to dare. Just about all people form in-groups.

Quote:
As a lefty [...]

It also surprises me how much the lefties on here engage in selective hearing. Isn't it a liberal quality to sort of seek out the truth in things rather than be so in-groupy?
Spoken like a true rightwinger.

Quote:
I implore those of you who enjoy spewing your frothy mouthed vitriol (right or left) to watch Jonathan Haidt's lecture on the real differences between libs and cons. Maybe you'll be less pissed off all the time.
Watching Haidt in and of itself makes me pissed off. He's got some worthwhile thoughts, but overall his observations strike me as either banal or over-generalized. I also find him to be one of those people who claims to be a liberal but who seems to spend all of his time scolding other liberals and apologizing for conservatives, no matter what they say or do.

I suppose I can see why he appeals to you, come to think of it.
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  #54  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:07 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters. People can disagree without resorting to ad hominems.
Unless you're prepared to say the same thing about the righty commenters, I can't even begin to respect this. In any case, I think you're making too sweeping a statement.

In the case of the few, like me, I'd say we've had enough of the right being allowed to set the terms of the debate, especially after eight long years of the Bushies. It'll probably ramp down eventually. Depending on the tone of the right, of course.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 01-30-2009 at 06:09 AM..
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  #55  
Old 01-30-2009, 06:54 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Spoken like a true rightwinger.
Really? I suppose my support for universal health care is also right wing too? How about my support for ending the war on drugs (although I will concede that was William F. Buckley's POV too). How about my support for gay marriage?

I'm sorry I'm not cookie cutter liberal.

Quote:
Watching Haidt in and of itself makes me pissed off. He's got some worthwhile thoughts, but overall his observations strike me as either banal or over-generalized. I also find him to be one of those people who claims to be a liberal but who seems to spend all of his time scolding other liberals and apologizing for conservatives, no matter what they say or do.

I suppose I can see why he appeals to you, come to think of it.
You say this so pejoratively, and yet Haidt is equally revered by the two guys on Science Saturday that you fawn over. Why is it wrong to genuinely make the effort to try and see another viewpoint, instead of saying "oh I read that" and dismiss it outright?

Quote:
Unless you're prepared to say the same thing about the righty commenters, I can't even begin to respect this. In any case, I think you're making too sweeping a statement.
I would if I spent my days on fox news forums, but I don't. This is the only place I can get the conservative view point sans hannity, limbaugh, o'reilly.
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  #56  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:02 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
Really? I suppose my support ... [blah, blah, blah]
I said "Spoken like a true rightwinger," and it was underneath a specific quoted comment.

Quote:
You say this so pejoratively, and yet Haidt is equally revered by the two guys on Science Saturday that you fawn over.
This is almost too stupid to believe. Are you really unable to grasp the concept that it's possible to like somebody (or "fawn over," to use your hyperbole) while at the same time not agreeing with every last thing he says?

Quote:
Why is it wrong to genuinely make the effort to try and see another viewpoint, instead of saying "oh I read that" and dismiss it outright?
Why is it so hard for you to avoid using a straw man argument?

Quote:
I would if I spent my days on fox news forums, but I don't.
I was speaking of the rightwing commenters on this board.
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  #57  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:08 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I'm not going to specifically address your last message because it's getting too ad hominem. I'll just say this:

If I'd started out on this board a year ago, I would have spent most of my time agreeing with you. Now that Obama and 59 senators are in power, I just feel it is my patriotic duty to question the liberal perspective.

Libertarians have a fundamental distrust of power, remember?
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  #58  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:19 AM
otto otto is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Do it like the NYTimes and only post comments after they've been cleared.
Do not under any circumstances do this. Kiss of death to any conversation.
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  #59  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:48 AM
Sissy Willis Sissy Willis is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

"You'll see the colorand feel the difference" when the Gray Lady hires Glenn Reynolds for its token non-"progressive" spot. Like Clairol's "Gray Solution," Instapundit will give the Gray Lady "long-lasting coverage" of its "resistant grays."
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  #60  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:56 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I'm not going to specifically address your last message because it's getting too ad hominem.
Suit yourself.

For the record, however: I said one of your statements was stupid, which it was, and pointed out why. I said another (which was phrased as a question) was a straw man argument, which it was, and refused therefore to dignify it with a response. This is not what ad hominem means.

Quote:
I'll just say this:

If I'd started out on this board a year ago ...
You'd know a lot more about the dynamics of this board and the people who have been on it, and maybe you'd realize how irritating your new-to-scene pronouncements about it are.

Oh, sorry, you were saying?

Quote:
If I'd started out on this board a year ago, I would have spent most of my time agreeing with you.
Oddly enough, I feel no great sense of loss.

Quote:
Now that Obama and 59 senators are in power, I just feel it is my patriotic duty to question the liberal perspective.

Libertarians have a fundamental distrust of power, remember?
I have no respect for people who insist on doing things, or who insist on explaining their reasons for doing things, by starting with an identification of their ideological affiliation. This is particularly so when vacuous claims are made under the guise of said ideology, as though because you're wearing the team logo, there's something special about your claim.

I mean, really, what thinking person does trust those in power?
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  #61  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:56 AM
Kandigol Kandigol is offline
 
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Default Eurotrash

Thinking about forking over some money, I most certainly would be happy to, if I could. But my few measly euro's would probably not keep the wolf off the back door. Short of winning a lottery, my pockets will remain empty for the foreseeable future.
More advertising is needed, I should think. Both pundits and punters are drawn from a cross section of Americans who like to read and think. Surely there are more readers out there, and more publishers, colleges, etc. Let's, as commenters, try to spread the word, so more folks tune in to watch.

As for the commenters: in every comment section, there is a group of regulars. Compared to most comment sections, BHTv's is a Socratic meeting. Our commenters are usually a kind-hearted bunch, but maybe some people should take a short break. Go gather some new ideas yourselves, take some snowy walks, and give the floor to some fresh faces.

As for Bob and Mickey, it's the Odd Couple all over again. Such joy!
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  #62  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:00 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
Quote:
Do it like the NYTimes and only post comments after they've been cleared.
Do not under any circumstances do this. Kiss of death to any conversation.
Second that.
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  #63  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:03 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Eurotrash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandigol View Post
... and give the floor to some fresh faces.
You say that as though it's not possible for more than one person to post a comment at a time. I don't buy this. There's no reason why "the more the merrier" doesn't apply.

[Added] Nonetheless, I will give your suggestion some thought.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 01-30-2009 at 08:20 AM.. Reason: degratuitize
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  #64  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:36 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissy Willis View Post
"You'll see the colorand feel the difference" when the Gray Lady hires Glenn Reynolds for its token non-"progressive" spot. Like Clairol's "Gray Solution," Instapundit will give the Gray Lady "long-lasting coverage" of its "resistant grays."
But after Heh. Indeed., what will he say for the next 748 words?
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  #65  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:33 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
But after Heh. Indeed., what will he say for the next 748 words?
25 links to news articles about the White House thermostat, with an outraged pullquote from Ann Althouse? (And maybe a snappy line about how there's snow in Knoxville this winter.)
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  #66  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:26 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Okay, you win.
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:39 AM
Richard from Amherst Richard from Amherst is offline
 
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Default Re: What is a Neocon + I love BhTV

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
1) Neocon has morphed into a shorthand for someone who has an interventionist foreign policy, was on the right and supported the Iraq war. But I think the old meaning of Neocon is someone who thinks cultural modernity is bad and that the masses have to be reintroduced to religion to save society. I would rather have a war supporter writing for the Times than that kind of Neocon, if I had to pick. (I have been thinking about this since C. Hitchens sort of called himself a Neocon on BhTV, and I was like LOL Whut? Am I incorrect?)

2) The only bad think about BhTV is that Mickey doesn't do diavlogs with other people very often anymore.

3) I would pledge real American dollars for Bloggingheads, of course.
According to Merriam Webster on line:

neo搾on新er暇a暗ive

Function:
noun
Date:
1952

1 : a former liberal espousing political conservatism 2 : a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means
neo搾on新er暇a暗ism Listen to the pronunciation of neoconservatism \-və-ˌti-zəm\ noun
neoconservative adjective

That is certainly the definition I understand and as definition 1: fits me I guess that I am a neoconservative.

Bob: I stopped posting to the forum in the fall because of the abuse I took from some of the forum regulars and because of the work and personal pressures.

I have remained a regular listener however and try to never miss an episode. I tend to listen via podcast, but enjoy watching when it is convenient.

I doubt I can be induced to again post regularly to the forum given the current climate. Frankly I get enough abuse as a conservative here in Western Mass already without going on line for more.

I know that I am in the minority however I actually enjoyed Bill Kristol's OpEds in the NY Times, warts and inconsistencies and all. I certainly hope the Times replaces him with another conservative. Personally I would like to see Newt Gingrich do some NY Times OpEds.

Concerning contributions to support your enterprise:

I would certainly entertain a NPR type subscription. I'd like to see more science related episodes and more conservative / conservative episodes.
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  #68  
Old 01-30-2009, 11:30 AM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

"The lefty commenters seem like a bunch of Che Guevaras ready to pop a cap in the skulls of dissenters."


There's nothing like extreme incivility and bizarrely hyperbolic sarcasm in defense of civility and against the evils of sarcasm.

If for a minute I took this critique (infantile whine, really) against the alleged excesses of leftie commenters here seriously, that bit of hypocrisy pretty much ended it.
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  #69  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:21 PM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/174...0:20&out=70:30

Having a comments section is like owning a terrier. You just have to give them enough to do or they start misbehaving.

In terms of the front page, though, I have never seen a good argument against aggressively pruning the comments. Most of us are talking to each other, not to 'the world' (i.e. the people who show up only to watch the video) and there's no reason to advertise what amounts to IM conversations when they wouldn't be of interest to the general audience.
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  #70  
Old 01-30-2009, 12:46 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I would like to comment on the "pledge" aspect of the diavlog.

Whether it be voluntary or mandatory I'll leave that up to the powers that be.

I think an annual pledge or fee from $40 to $60 a year is reasonable. I base this on what I what a couple other services charge on the Net.

One example is Pajamas Media which is a politically conservative website. To access their Pajamas TV which has a number of daily interview discussions and the like is $37 a year.

Another is Carbonite which is a backup database facility for computers. Their annual fee is $50.

Now, I find BHTV a valuable resource and enjoy it immensely. I would gladly support it financially in the amounts I suggested.

John

Last edited by bkjazfan; 01-30-2009 at 01:22 PM..
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  #71  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:14 PM
Stapler Malone Stapler Malone is offline
 
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Default Mickey on China

This is the squishiest nonsense nonanswer ever. As gratifying as it may feel to puff up your chest and posture all hawk-talky on China, people need to recognize that the correct answer to Bob's question is: "nothing, there is not a damn thing we can do."
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  #72  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:20 PM
Surcam Surcam is offline
 
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Smile Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I happily support my local NPR station, and I'd happily support bloggingheads.tv. I've been a cheerleader/promoter of this site from the start and the idea of this place not being around in a year is terrible!

Now I'm imagining all the cool perks you could offer to donors. I'd cherish a signed copy of Non-Zero
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  #73  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:22 PM
Surcam Surcam is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

P.S.

More

Wright vs Kaus

Loury vs Mcwhorter

Corn vs Pinkerton

Eric Alterman

Glenn Greenwald

and Eli Lake!

Por favor.
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  #74  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:26 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
Absolutely. I flip between Paul Krugman's column and Cato's Daily Podcast to try and get a handle on the different viewpoints. I would love to see a Keynesian vs. Austrian.


Yeah McWhorter is just one of my favorite diavloggers. I especially liked the episode where he destroyed Ta-Nehisi Coates in logic as well as civility.
What one was that again?

I'd bet McWhorter himself would disagree with that assessment.
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  #75  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:45 PM
rfannan rfannan is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I'd donate $100 a year
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  #76  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:52 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I watched the video - pretty good. hosted by lefties, audience of lefties, yet a respectful and enthusiastic audience for his views which are, at least partially, disrespectful to those listening.

then I noticed an associated video titled "heritage foundation: how liberals think" over on the right side of the page and clicked it. liberals "want to keep saddam's prison rape rooms up and running", Lefties are not just wrong they "are diametrically opposed to doing the right thing". they reject the idea of being right" etc. etc.

that snapped me back to reality - there is a huge right wing noise machine devoted to telling me that I am anti-american and Amoral. I reject that. and it really ticks me off the point that i don't mind being a little acerbic and in-your-face about my beliefs.

on another note: my only comment that was deleted by the moderator here on BHTV was when i questioned how left-wing feminists square their feminism with creating women-only forums - which seems to me to undercut the whole left/feminist idea of inclusion and diversity.

I've yet to figure out how, exactly, that crossed the line.

moderator? care to comment? any defense?
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  #77  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:14 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I gotta call BS. Look at the comments that Glen Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, Bill Scher, Stephen Walt, etc., etc. have been subject to from right-wing commentors. I would say that nastiness of comments has to do with nastiness of the diavlogger and/or ridiculous nature of their arguments. Perfect example: Eli Lake. In the first diavlog he made all kinds of just silly right-wing talking points ad extremis, and the commentors gave him a beat-down. Since then, he has been much better and gets much better treatment. (Heck, he's one of my favorites now.) David Frum and Jim Pinkerton also get largely commendable treatment when they don't act like idiots.

The leftists-are nastier meme, also is just complete nonsense. Go to any right-wing website and tell me that the level of nasitness and vitriol is in any way appreciably different on either side. For that matter, with a few exceptions aside, commentors here are pretty tame and largely stick to substantive debate. Even the diavloggers have mentioned the high quality of the BH comments section several times. If we are highly held in the mind of Heather Hurlburt, we must be doing something right.
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  #78  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:34 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Location: Heartland Conservative
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
Libertarians have a fundamental distrust of power, remember?
This is completely wrong. (Depending on the kind of libertarian you're talking about.)

If you're talking about the kind of libertarianism found in America, then your statement should be modified to read, "Libertarians have a fundamental distrust of *public* power, i.e., democratic government.

"True" libertarians (i.e., libertarians according to the original meaning of the term), virtually unknown in the United States, are skeptical of ALL power -- private and public. But questioning private power is anathema to American-style libertarians, who would, if they could, severely limit the ability of the people (through government) to regulate or mitigate the effects of unfettered private power. A typical example to illustrate the contrast would be limits on pollution. A true libertarian would regard pollution as an abuse of private power and would consider democratic government as a possible source of remedy through legislation limiting the right of corporations to poison air, land, or water. American-style libertarians, on the other hand, typically would consider government regulation of pollution to be the abuse of power, and would leave regulation of pollution up to the markets.

An even better example is segregation: real libertarians consider discrimination in access to public accommodations an abuse of private power that can be remedied by the people through a democratic resolution. American style libertarians, on the other hand, would consider discrimination to be a proper and legitimate use of private power and attempts to limit it as an illegitimate exercise of authority.
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  #79  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:37 PM
Francoamerican
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Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

I would be happy to donate. But only as long as I can make sarcastic comments about David Frum.
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  #80  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:58 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heartland Conservative
Posts: 4,933
Default Re: The Pinkie Finger Prism

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I gotta call BS. Look at the comments that Glen Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, Bill Scher, Stephen Walt, etc., etc. have been subject to from right-wing commentors. I would say that nastiness of comments has to do with nastiness of the diavlogger and/or ridiculous nature of their arguments. Perfect example: Eli Lake. In the first diavlog he made all kinds of just silly right-wing talking points ad extremis, and the commentors gave him a beat-down. Since then, he has been much better and gets much better treatment. (Heck, he's one of my favorites now.) David Frum and Jim Pinkerton also get largely commendable treatment when they don't act like idiots.

The leftists-are nastier meme, also is just complete nonsense. Go to any right-wing website and tell me that the level of nasitness and vitriol is in any way appreciably different on either side. For that matter, with a few exceptions aside, commentors here are pretty tame and largely stick to substantive debate. Even the diavloggers have mentioned the high quality of the BH comments section several times. If we are highly held in the mind of Heather Hurlburt, we must be doing something right.
Eli really is an interesting case study. As you say, in his first few diavlogs, he was very different than he is now: he deliberately insulted and provoked liberal viewers and commenters, and got the response from us you would expect. He completely changed his approach, and now he is one of the favorites of people on the left, despite the fact that his views have not changed in the slightest.

I think the key is to see people as people, and not as embodiments of an ideology. I assume we all have friends and family and co-workers in real life who are at the opposite end of the political spectrum from ourselves, and we (should) get along with them just fine. We should take this same attitude into the forum and other online discussion. I will grant I don't do a very good job of practicing what I preach.
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