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  #1  
Old 04-30-2009, 01:19 AM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
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Posts: 1,606
Default And the hero of our times is?

Felipe Calderon



/thread
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2009, 11:52 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Posts: 3,162
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonIrenicus View Post
Felipe Calderon
/thread
Arm and launch the drones. Let's smoke him out and eradicate him and the flu in one shot.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2009, 06:14 PM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
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Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

You really hate drones don't you?

I better not mention that I like lasers or you might post some inane link like this as an example of what I want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw



anyway,

the reason he is a hero of our times is because he is taking on the drug traffickers in Mexico, not an easy or particularly safe path to take. And for what it is worth, a majority of the people in Mexico approve of that, for all the trouble and increased violence.


Of course some America at fault first persona will bring up the US appetite for drugs and its drug war in general as a reason that the cartels exist in such force to begin with, and that may be, but unlike the pathetic creature that only points at harmful influences that he has little control over, he has taken the reigns of what he CAN control.

And for that he deserves out support.
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2009, 06:32 PM
graz graz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,162
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonIrenicus View Post
You really hate drones don't you?

I better not mention that I like lasers or you might post some inane link like this as an example of what I want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw



anyway,

the reason he is a hero of our times is because he is taking on the drug traffickers in Mexico, not an easy or particularly safe path to take. And for what it is worth, a majority of the people in Mexico approve of that, for all the trouble and increased violence.


Of course some America at fault first persona will bring up the US appetite for drugs and its drug war in general as a reason that the cartels exist in such force to begin with, and that may be, but unlike the pathetic creature that only points at harmful influences that he has little control over, he has taken the reigns of what he CAN control.

And for that he deserves out support.
Utilitarianists Unite!
Do you have evidence that he is decreasing drug smuggling?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-..._b_188358.html

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/the...-george-w-bush

Quote:
If the US President or anyone is under the illusion that Calderon has the political support among the Mexican people to succeed in the failed war-on-drugs model when all leaders of all nations anywhere have not, he will end up feeling as defrauded as so many millions of Mexicans, as the death toll of that model continues rise, and with it a misery index unimaginable to most citizens of the United States.

Last edited by graz; 04-30-2009 at 06:35 PM..
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2009, 12:02 AM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
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Posts: 1,606
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Utilitarianists Unite!
Do you have evidence that he is decreasing drug smuggling?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-..._b_188358.html

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/the...-george-w-bush
No, I only have evidence that he is cracking down on cartels and trafficking. And if these numbers are to be believed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_...proval_ratings


He has the support of the majority of Mexicans in his efforts to crack down on the traffickers.


Do I think this will lead to an end in trafficking? No. Not by a long shot, as long as demand in the US is so high, it will remain. But perhaps it can make drug trafficking a more expensive enterprise. And eventually, it make free sections of the country from cartel control. These are not saints, and their influence over Mexican officials and police has hampered Mexicans for decades.

I am not sorry they are being cracked down on. I'll leave the tears to you on that one.


To the more reasonable critique, does anyone think the US will decriminalize drugs in the near future?

I can imagine doing so for marijuana, but cocaine? You truly think the latter will get popular support any time soon to make it legal?


Even if you think it should be legal, do you think it likely it WILL be legalized?


I have serious doubts that will happen. And so what is Felipe to do? let the cartels run wild? Turn a blind eye while they bribe and murder and coerce and disrupt Mexican Society for their profits?


Why is it some people find it Sooooooooooo easy to go after corporations that polute and cause environmental harm, but when it comes to societal harm that directly affects people, like lawlessness, they seem to lose the same fire of condemnation?


He faces in implacable drug appetite to the north, with no forseeable change in the near future, and cartels in his own country disrupting life and breaking laws, what is he to do Graz?
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:29 AM
graz graz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,162
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

You have raised a number of good points. Perhaps our numbers and inclinations can fight it out - with lasers if you like?

Because it is so removed, I'm not shedding tears for the murder and mayhem brought about by Calderon's militarization of the war (why does it always come to war) on drugs. Just as you can argue that he had no choice, or celebrate his methods, I can say that a comprehensive non-lethal method that would include his Northern neighbors was an alternative.

As to his popularity. I would be wary of one wiki-poll. The truth lies somewhere between that poll and this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ-TV...eature=related

Quote:
Why is it some people find it Sooooooooooo easy to go after corporations that polute and cause environmental harm, but when it comes to societal harm that directly affects people, like lawlessness, they seem to lose the same fire of condemnation?
Which part of the flu or corporate exploitation doesn't effect people? It doesn't have to be either or so don't reduce it. Corporations are people to and should be held accountable - except there's that pesky:

person n. 1) a human being. 2) a corporation treated as having the rights and obligations of a person. Counties and cities can be treated as a person in the same manner as a corporation. However, corporations, counties and cities cannot have the emotions of humans such as malice, and therefore are not liable for punitive damages. (See: party, corporation)



Who has an answer for the intractable appetite for drugs, which in turn fuels the supply, etc. Your hero has offered one: Shoot 'em up. This seems to be your default mode and you seem rightly proud of your stance. Let's get back to the start:
And the hero of our times is?
Felipe Calderon
/thread

Not by my lights.
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2009, 07:26 PM
cognitive madisonian cognitive madisonian is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 648
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

Add to that list Uribe, who has my vote for the greatest leader in the world, as of today.

David Petraeus, too. The man who should be president come inauguration day, 2013.
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2009, 04:21 PM
kezboard kezboard is offline
 
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Location: Great Moravia
Posts: 1,117
Default Re: And the hero of our times is?

That would definitely be an example of the Peter principle.
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