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  #41  
Old 12-08-2011, 01:35 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
We've kind of had a poll of sorts about which of us are religious and not, and it hasn't broken in the way one might have expected. I am curious about whether other people here have done manual labour for pay, and if so, what kind and over what period of time.
When I was 13, my next door neighbor hired me to scrape all the old paint off their two car garage and then repaint it. I agreed to do it for $50, but they paid me $60. As an aside, last weekend one of my friends paid a neighborhood kid $50 for one day's yard work -- basically raking leaves in his (admittedly large) front and back yard.

When I was 14, my older brother (who was 20) bought a small machine parts manufacturing company. (Mostly automotive parts, though he did get some defense contracts making parts for tanks.) I worked part time in the shop for the next couple of years operating a chromic acid tank and sandblasting machine parts. In retrospect, this was all probably illegal, though we didn't care: we were libertarians. (My brother dragged me into his libertarianism when I was about 13, and it lasted until I was about 19.)

For a few years starting around 13-14, I had two paper routes: Before school I delivered the Detroit Free Press to ~125 customers, and after school I delivered the Detroit News to ~100 customers.

From 17-19, I was a Little League coach.

From 19-20 (two summers) I was a camp counselor at the UAW's Black Lake Family Center. Best job I ever had.

After college, I worked for about a year as the manager of my brother's game store.

After college, I also worked for about 3 years as a free lance photographer, which involved taking pictures and then developing the film and making prints in my darkroom.

After that, I got hired at Megacorp International and I've been sitting at a desk ever since.
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2011, 01:40 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Also my brother and my dad and I built a house once.
That sounds like fun.
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:14 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
That sounds like fun.
It was, except for the foundation and the siding. And it's a nice house.
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:15 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
It was, except for the foundation and the siding. And it's a nice house.
Did it become your family's house? Or did you build it for sale or for another family?
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2011, 11:30 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
The Soviet Union didn't break up while Reagan was president.
True, but it was on the brink.
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2011, 12:24 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
When I was 13, my next door neighbor hired me to scrape all the old paint off their two car garage and then repaint it.
I grew up on a farm but didn't get paid anything for it, except for free room and board (I started paying my folks room and board in the summer once I started college).

From age 12 onward, I bought my school clothes from summer work. There was a month every summer of raking blueberries and another of picking strawberries. It was all piecework (i.e., not by the hour by weight of what you picked) and I would make, on a good day 40 dollars a day picking strawberries and up to 100 raking blueberries (because it was piece work you would start as soon as the sun was up and go til about 6 in the evening, so a 11-12 hour day for blueberries. Shorter for strawberries because you did't pick in the high afternoon as the berries would dry out too much.

In college, I spent two years planting trees for 3 months a summer (again, piece work, and I could make about a thousand dollars a week, which paid the piece of college my scholarship didn't and if I was lucky allowed me to get some decent clothes. The end of tree planting season usually roughly coincided with beginning of blueberry season, so I still spent the last month of summer doing that.

I spent the other two college summers getting paid for general farm labor on a local farm and in that case, it WAS by the hour. After work on the farm, I spent the evening and sundays raking blueberries.

I had three part time jobs while in college (all four years I had all three jobs), one of which was manual labor and two which weren't: I was the building manager for a dorm, which involved a lot of the minor repairs that they didn't want to pay the non-student union guys to do, security guard, and a library stacker
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Did it become your family's house? Or did you build it for sale or for another family?
It became our place. When my grandfather died, he had somehow managed to save enough money working as a farmer and in a mill that my dad and his four siblings inherited a fair chunk of money, and my parents decided to use that money to buy a plot of land up in the mountains in Virginia and build a house there where we could go to get out in the woods.
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2011, 05:48 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
We've kind of had a poll of sorts about which of us are religious and not, and it hasn't broken in the way one might have expected. I am curious about whether other people here have done manual labour for pay, and if so, what kind and over what period of time.
elementary school janitor (when i was a 14 yr old poor kid, btw)
bucking hay
setting/re-setting irrigation pipe
Drywall hanging and finishing
Plastic injection molding
underground utility installations, laborer
Tree planter - piece work and hourly
wood working - making futons
Woodcutter
Picking up rocks - paid by the ton
Wildcrafting (moss, salal, st john's wort, yerba santa)
wood working - making tables

ages 14-23, mixed with other jobs that were not as labor intensive such as making pizzas, washing dishes, working in a library, working at a call center and probably a few others.
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civil disobedience a problem? NO! Our problem is that people are OBEDIENT all over the world, in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war and cruelty. -HZ

Last edited by popcorn_karate; 12-08-2011 at 05:50 PM..
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  #49  
Old 12-08-2011, 05:56 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

Also- is anyone else surprised that Daniel Foster is 27?
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2011, 06:08 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
We've kind of had a poll of sorts about which of us are religious and not, and it hasn't broken in the way one might have expected. I am curious about whether other people here have done manual labour for pay, and if so, what kind and over what period of time.
All my adult life and I have the hands to prove it. ten fingers, too!
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-08-2011 at 06:55 PM..
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  #51  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:58 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Retaining walls. Only for a summer, however. I've got a total of probably 4 years of waiting tables squeezed in between various school as well. Also my brother and my dad and I built a house once.
Is waiting tables manual labor?
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  #52  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:01 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Is waiting tables manual labor?
No, but it's not exactly white collar either, so I threw it in out of a sense of completeness.
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  #53  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:01 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
We've kind of had a poll of sorts about which of us are religious and not, and it hasn't broken in the way one might have expected. I am curious about whether other people here have done manual labour for pay, and if so, what kind and over what period of time.
From 17 to 25 I had some amount of construction experience. Then, I went into business for myself.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:08 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
No, but it's not exactly white collar either, so I threw it in out of a sense of completeness.
I think it is manual labor. As is working in a darkroom, for example.

Dictionary.com: "Work done with the hands."

Wikipedia: "Physical work done by people," and "most literally work done with the hands (the word "manual" comes from the Latin word for hand), and, by figurative extension, it is work done with any of the muscles and bones of the body."
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2011, 10:43 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I think it is manual labor. As is working in a darkroom, for example.

Dictionary.com: "Work done with the hands."

Wikipedia: "Physical work done by people," and "most literally work done with the hands (the word "manual" comes from the Latin word for hand), and, by figurative extension, it is work done with any of the muscles and bones of the body."
Great; you've just defined all labor as manual labor.
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2011, 11:03 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
All my adult life and I have the hands to prove it. ten fingers, too!
Next, injuries related to manual labor. :-)

My first injury was due to someone else's manual labor. When I was two, I was toddling around with my grandfather while he was feeding cattle and I got a little too close and took a pitchfork in the eye.

When I was eight. I jumped off a load of a hay and took a hayhook through my foot.

I lost a couple of my first teeth to a cow kicking me when I was learning to milk.

Planting trees, I stepped through a pile of brush covering a small pit and herniated three disks.
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  #57  
Old 12-09-2011, 07:08 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Great; you've just defined all labor as manual labor.
Yes, that's right, I'm the author of both the dictionary and Wikipedia! Tremble before my awesome powers!

Listen, I don't know what the conventional understanding is of "manual labor." I'm sorry you feel offended that a waiter would intrude on the term. But it doesn't seem obvious to me that picking up and carrying trays of food back and forth from a kitchen all day isn't manual labor.
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  #58  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:12 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
Next, injuries related to manual labor. :-)

My first injury was due to someone else's manual labor. When I was two, I was toddling around with my grandfather while he was feeding cattle and I got a little too close and took a pitchfork in the eye.

When I was eight. I jumped off a load of a hay and took a hayhook through my foot.

I lost a couple of my first teeth to a cow kicking me when I was learning to milk.

Planting trees, I stepped through a pile of brush covering a small pit and herniated three disks.
I've been very lucky (or smart). I have had two mishaps. One with a table saw. It took a very small piece of the tip of my finger but no bone. I can still feel the numbness. And one time I nipped the tip of my finger on a router table.
But one thing I am very glad of is that my 'manual labor' job has kept me fit physically. I don't need to shlep to the gym to get exercise because I do strenuous stuff all day. Plus the construction trades keep one's mind agile and the creative side is quite satisfying as well.
Funny, it seems the only blue collar person around here is a woman.
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-09-2011 at 11:15 AM..
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  #59  
Old 12-09-2011, 12:46 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

More Newt: this time it's all about "fundamentally changing" institutions. Which institutions, you ask? All of them:

Quote:
It isn't a conservative impulse. Nor is it always radicalism in service of his larger right-wing agenda. He just likes to think of himself as a transformative guy....It's a tick that often causes Gingrich to propose changes so absurdly unrealistic that no reform happens. And if he ever had the time, discipline or power to implement one of his schemes in full, the unintended consequences would be epic. He'd be a uniquely awful president, whether of a large corporation or the United States, accomplishing very little, and possibly mucking up a lot along the way.

And he'd totally remodel the White House before he got started.
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  #60  
Old 12-09-2011, 01:54 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Yes, that's right, I'm the author of both the dictionary and Wikipedia! Tremble before my awesome powers!

Listen, I don't know what the conventional understanding is of "manual labor." I'm sorry you feel offended that a waiter would intrude on the term. But it doesn't seem obvious to me that picking up and carrying trays of food back and forth from a kitchen all day isn't manual labor.
i think you are being intentionally obtuse, at least about the common understanding of the term if not your ability to plausibly stretch the definition.

You are also, though i'm sure its not your intention, showing a real lack of respect for the physical suffering that many people that do manual labor endure.
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civil disobedience a problem? NO! Our problem is that people are OBEDIENT all over the world, in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war and cruelty. -HZ
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  #61  
Old 12-09-2011, 02:13 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Listen, I don't know what the conventional understanding is of "manual labor."
Clearly.

Quote:
I'm sorry you feel offended that a waiter would intrude on the term. But it doesn't seem obvious to me that picking up and carrying trays of food back and forth from a kitchen all day isn't manual labor.
That is what is amusing, considering you're such a left wing extremist. It shows that the whole exercise is something of a farce with you. With your view of "labor", I'm beginning to think you got into fringe leftism for some girl.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2011, 03:03 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
With your view of "labor", I'm beginning to think you got into fringe leftism for some girl.
Well, there are a lot of people who get into right wing stuff because of Ayn Rand. Which is ironic when one decries unwashed hippies.
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2011, 06:28 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniel likes hard work, too bad his party finds it passe.

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
Well, there are a lot of people who get into right wing stuff because of Ayn Rand. Which is ironic when one decries unwashed hippies.
LOL Good point. I can say that my flirtation with Rand when I was 12 was the farthest left I've ever been in my life. So I guess it is true for both Twinswords and myself.
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  #64  
Old 12-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

See also: 21 Reasons Newt Gingrich won't be the Republican nominee for President. Some highlights:

Quote:
- scribbled a note describing himself as an “Advocate of civilization, defender of civilization, teacher of the rules of civilization, arouser of those who form civilization, organizer of the pro-civilization activists, and leader ‘possibly’ of the civilizing forces”;

- called Paul Ryan’s budget “right-wing social engineering” and then, two days later, said, “The budget vote is one that I’m happy to say I would have voted for...So, let me say on the record: Any ad which quotes what I said Sunday is a falsehood”;

- called for “a massive new program to build a permanent lunar colony to exploit the Moon’s resources”;

- suggested that “a mirror system in space could provide the light equivalent of many full moons so that there would be no need for nighttime lighting of the highways”;

- helped the GOP lose the 1995 government-shutdown showdown by saying that “part of why you ended up with us sending down a tougher continuing resolution” was that he didn’t get good enough seats on Air Force One;
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  #65  
Old 12-09-2011, 10:42 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
There's more great (hilarious) stuff here, including Newt on why women can't serve in combat (prone to infections, especially in ditches) and how "gays and secular fascists" seek to control the USA.
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  #66  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:25 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
I actually like the first one you posted.
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  #67  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:36 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I actually like the first one you posted.
What, the civilization note?
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  #68  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:41 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
What, the civilization note?
Yes. That is the proper attitude a man should take when he seeks the highest offices.
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  #69  
Old 12-10-2011, 12:04 AM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
See also: 21 Reasons Newt Gingrich won't be the Republican nominee for President. Some highlights:

Quote:
- scribbled a note describing himself as an “Advocate of civilization, defender of civilization, teacher of the rules of civilization, arouser of those who form civilization, organizer of the pro-civilization activists, and leader ‘possibly’ of the civilizing forces”;

- called Paul Ryan’s budget “right-wing social engineering” and then, two days later, said, “The budget vote is one that I’m happy to say I would have voted for...So, let me say on the record: Any ad which quotes what I said Sunday is a falsehood”;

- called for “a massive new program to build a permanent lunar colony to exploit the Moon’s resources”;

- suggested that “a mirror system in space could provide the light equivalent of many full moons so that there would be no need for nighttime lighting of the highways”;

- helped the GOP lose the 1995 government-shutdown showdown by saying that “part of why you ended up with us sending down a tougher continuing resolution” was that he didn’t get good enough seats on Air Force One;


He forgot to mention his humble demeanor, his ability to keep the population of the US out of Auschwitz, his 13th degree black belt in super-kung-fu and X-ray vision. Christ I hope he wins the nomination. I wanna see him leap tall buildings and cure cancer and ...

Would he actually be the craziest person in the last 50 or 100 years to be nominated ??
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  #70  
Old 12-10-2011, 12:09 AM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
There's more great (hilarious) stuff here, including Newt on why women can't serve in combat (prone to infections, especially in ditches) and how "gays and secular fascists" seek to control the USA.
Yeah I remember the women in combat thing. I think that's why he keeps leaving his wives ... all those infections ruining all the fun.

Oh please Jeeebus make him the nominee puuuuhhhhleeeeaaaseeee !!1!
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  #71  
Old 12-10-2011, 12:27 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by thouartgob View Post
Yeah I remember the women in combat thing. I think that's why he keeps leaving his wives ... all those infections ruining all the fun.

Oh please Jeeebus make him the nominee puuuuhhhhleeeeaaaseeee !!1!
No chance. Romney will get it. But Gingrich will make the next debate fun.
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  #72  
Old 12-10-2011, 12:29 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
No chance. Romney will get it. But Gingrich will make the next debate fun.
But Newt says he's already won!
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  #73  
Old 12-10-2011, 06:12 AM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
No chance. Romney will get it. But Gingrich will make the next debate fun.
A lass this is true :-(

Newt doesn't even really think he is going to win either I believe. This campaign really seems to be another Newt INC. venture to help sell his books and paraphernalia and be the seed of his next book and the attendant book tour and so it goes.

Still would have like to see a moon base. Giant mirrors in orbit ?? there goes ground based astronomy. Life must be interesting in the Newt-onian Bubble
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  #74  
Old 12-10-2011, 03:57 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: World Historic Edition (Mark Schmitt & Daniel Foster)

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Originally Posted by thouartgob View Post
Yeah I remember the women in combat thing. I think that's why he keeps leaving his wives ... all those infections ruining all the fun.
I'd forgotten all about it until Wonderment's link. I don't know if I can take all this '90s nostalgia.
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