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  #41  
Old 09-26-2008, 12:52 AM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Exactly. This is the key. The campaign wasn't suspended; it was merely reconfigured into a suspended campaign campaign.
Very well put.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I hate to be rude to wingnuts, but only the gloriously ignorant could be convinced that McCain is actually suspending his campaign, and not merely reconfiguring it for maximum personal advantage. If McCain thought standing in front of a microphone sputtering like he did during the Georgia crisis would help, he'd be doing that.
Is it me or is he getting more devious by the day?
Speaking of wingnuts, sure is quiet in here. I bet even the war mongers are realizing their favorite war might be over. They did get five years and a trillion dollars, and still no end in sight.
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  #42  
Old 09-26-2008, 01:22 AM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

oh yea, I almost forgot, is it too late to privatize social security?
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  #43  
Old 09-26-2008, 02:00 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

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Originally Posted by handle View Post
oh yea, I almost forgot, is it too late to privatize social security?
Heh. I honestly won't be surprised if they use the current finanacial meltdown as an excuse to accomplish things they've had on their agenda since the 1st term of FDR, including, if they can find a way, the elimination of social security. I'm sure someone at Heritage or AEI is drafting this week the explanation for why the bailout means we can no longer afford entitlements.

This would be the same as how they used 9/11 to drive through ultraconservative politics, like weakening the federal employees' union, which had nothing to do with national security.

They are totally shameless, and even in the midst of chaos and catastrophe are conspiring to find new ways to advance the conservative agenda.

The thing that astonishes so many Americans is the fact that even when they are ostensibly out of power or weakened, Republicans continue to win battles and move the ball down the field on their own terms. And the financial meltdown, conventionally perceived to be politically advantageous to the left, will prove this once again. These events will be turned into yet another watershed moment for the advancement of the conservative, pro-business agenda.
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  #44  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:19 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The stunt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Yeah, maybe I've over-estimated liberal distain for bailing out Wall St., but I'm still thinking it's a situation where both ends of the spectrum are in opposition to the middle, and I expect McCain to look for the middle on this... we will see. The talks have imploded minutes ago. WaMu was just seized by the Government. McCain's chance to be president is to forge a compromise that stabilizes the situation. I have no idea if that's possible. Postponing the debate, in my view, is an obvious smart move by McCain.
I still think McCain is crazy to think he's going to come out of this with anything that he can spin in his favor, let alone a tangible accomplishment. He has so alienated his former base (the MSM) that they're now looking at him skeptically. There's an attitude that, sure, the candidates should be involved with the process, but there are also 500+ other members of Congress, plus a Cabinet and the rest of the executive branch, already at work on the problem, so how can it be anything but disruptive to add more political drama-queening to the mix?

When you say "McCain's chance to be president is to forge a compromise that stabilizes the situation," do you mean that this is his last chance, in your view? That's the way I see this -- he's throwing another Hail Mary. Might work; Hail Marys do every now and again. But the odds are against it.
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  #45  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:24 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Heh. I honestly won't be surprised if they use the current finanacial meltdown as an excuse to accomplish things they've had on their agenda since the 1st term of FDR, including, if they can find a way, the elimination of social security. I'm sure someone at Heritage or AEI is drafting this week the explanation for why the bailout means we can no longer afford entitlements.
I don't think it'll get that bad, but I have heard being floated the idea that capital gains taxes should be (here comes that word again) suspended for a couple of years.

Of course it's being pitched as a way to motivate businesses to business-y things that will stimulate the economy. Me, I have to wonder at the ideological blinders that would allow anyone to talk about cutting taxes on rich people when the country is looking at taking on another trillion dollars in debt.
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  #46  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:27 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

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Originally Posted by jaoneal View Post
A couple of points in support of Mickey's thesis (as against Bob) that negative press coverage actually helps rather than hurts McCain--one analytical, one anecdotal.

On the analytical side, imagine the following thought experiment--Every 15 minutes every major news outlet, newspaper, tv person, etc., simply put it directly to their audience "You should vote for Obama", from now until the election--what do you think would really happen? McCain would win in a landslide. Anybody who has ever raised a kid should know this.
I don't buy this. The entire 2000 campaign, we were hammered with "Gore lies" and "Bush is the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with." Gore should have won in a landslide, and he owns some of the blame for not doing so. However, I remain convinced that he would have at least won narrowly, had it not been for the MSM.
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  #47  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:32 AM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
However, I remain convinced that he [Gore] would have at least won narrowly, had it not been for the MSM.
He did win narrowly.
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  #48  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:34 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
He did win narrowly.
I meant to add "convincingly," too. But you're right.
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  #49  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:23 AM
themightypuck themightypuck is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

I think you should vote your conscience. Where do you live? Where I live (California), the Presidential election is a bit like the SuperBowl: I can root for my team but I can't really effect the outcome.
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  #50  
Old 09-26-2008, 07:36 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: The stunt

Hail Mary indeed. But as in a close football game, more crazy things can happen in the last 2 minutes than in the previous 58 minutes. We don't know how many weeks it will take to play out this crisis.
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  #51  
Old 09-26-2008, 07:36 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: The stunt

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
....drama-queening .....
Well, that's a verb for posterity! Every day I learn something new. Thank you Brendan.
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  #52  
Old 09-26-2008, 07:39 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by themightypuck View Post
I think you should vote your conscience. Where do you live? Where I live (California), the Presidential election is a bit like the SuperBowl: I can root for my team but I can't really effect the outcome.
That's one of the sad things about American politics, but also one of the things that shows what a farce it is: the regional nature of US political parties. With few exceptions, party ID has always been a function of where you are physically situated within the US.
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  #53  
Old 09-26-2008, 07:42 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

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Originally Posted by jaoneal View Post
More often than not, I think my vote has been determined by whether I was more annoyed at the time with the rhetoric coming from the religious right or the far left.
Just curious: what's the "far left"? Can you recall any examples of when you voted out of annoyance with "the far left"?

Personally, I dispute the suggestion that there is anything resembling a "far left" in US politics.
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  #54  
Old 09-26-2008, 07:55 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Just curious: what's the "far left"? Can you recall any examples of when you voted out of annoyance with "the far left"?

Personally, I dispute the suggestion that there is anything resembling a "far left" in US politics.
I certainly agree with your overall argument. However, to be fair, "far left" and similar terms lack an exact definition. Although we generally know, more or less, what we're talking about, the terms right and left are supposed to be relative to each other and to what is status quo. So, how far "far" is? Hard to answer that.
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  #55  
Old 09-26-2008, 09:41 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Bob, you totally missed the real misdirection of the Palin/Charlie Gibson interview. If they were actually 'worried about seeming too anti-Palin', they would not have done such a joke job editing the interview in a completely anti-Palin form.

If you are really judging the interview based entirely on what you saw on ABC, you are falling for the same thing that everyone from Frank Rich to Tina Fey used to unjustly ridicule Palin.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gla...alin-interview

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-b...ouble-standard

http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutal...-edited-g.html

To those who say there is no left-leaning msm, please provide links to the news networks and major newspapers that reported on ABC's editing job. Even worse, compare the treatment Palin got to Gibson's fawning interview with Obama.

Gibson's incredibly dishonest 'exact words' reference to Palin's use of prayer was another example of his left-leaning bias. He either totally lied or else had no idea that Palin was asking for a blessing that their mission was a just one. She joins Clinton, Kennedy, FDR and just about every other President in this regard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hpwM4Jjyrs

Last edited by harkin; 09-26-2008 at 09:43 AM..
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  #56  
Old 09-26-2008, 09:44 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Mickey,

Loved your Bloggingheads Premiere blast. The only way that line could have been funnier was if you'd said Bloggingheads Select.
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  #57  
Old 09-26-2008, 10:44 AM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by themightypuck View Post
I think you should vote your conscience. Where do you live? Where I live (California), the Presidential election is a bit like the SuperBowl: I can root for my team but I can't really effect the outcome.
I live in Florida--every third commercial is currently a political ad here.

Part of my problem with 'voting my conscience' is that I don't really have a 'team'. Indeed, I intensely dislike the very notions of 'team' and 'party'. A driving idea behind modern political ideologies is one i disagree with--namely that there are analytical/a priori available solutions to social problems. Thus many people are convinced that a "liberal" solution will have the best outcome or that a 'conservative' solution will, while think it's completely contingent.

Additionally, one way of parsing 'voting one's conscience' in this election might be--"vote on intrinsic properties--who you think is the best person", but I don't think one can, or should, ignore the potential relational properties of an Obama presidency-it's effects on the society in general. It has, as I noted earlier, a potential upside a McCain presidency lacks; to ignore this, I think, would be irresponsible on my part. I'm not saying it should necessarily dictate my vote, but it is something I should think about.
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  #58  
Old 09-26-2008, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
However, to be fair, "far left" and similar terms lack an exact definition...So, how far "far" is? Hard to answer that.
I'd say Anarchist is the farthest left, with communist being not quite as far.

These positions do not exist, politically speaking, in the U.S., though they're very important in activism here.
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  #59  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Regarding the propriety discussion, I have to opine that unseemly positioning of the F-word carries less odour these days, than, say, a link to an openly racist discussion of the bailout affixed just to the right of Mickey's head.

For real: one of the commenters on Steve Sailer piece rejects Sailer's argument, but establishes his authority by underlining his remarks in the following way: "I say this as a white and as a racist".

As an aside, I'd like to point out that it's time to mount up. This notion (I hesitate to say 'meme', because, well, 'meme' has no pedigree) will gain currency. Krauthammer's on it. This has to stop.

Back on track, let's recommend a new practice to Bob. Rather than remove unsightly F's, suffer them with the consolation that they're not as unattractive to society in general or investors in particular as your average burning cross.

Or, to paraphrase Eddie Murphy impersonating Richard Pryor giving Bill Cosby his comeuppance: tell Bob, I said, 'have a Coke and a smile and STFU!'
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  #60  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:18 AM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

I think of the "Nation", Cindy Sheehan, kos crowd as the far left; roughly the primary contrast here is with Bill Clinton/DLC types.

And as another post pointed out, given that the term "far" is relational, I dispute that the term could fail to denote.

Also, regarding the purely psychological (rather than rational) reactions I was talking about before, I was specifically not talking about rhetoric from the candidates. Rather the onslaught of media (including new media, like blogs) that surrounds them. In politics, as in life, it's your friends that usually bury you. There is, i think, (though perhaps this is more prominent for independents) a psychological sense that to vote for a particular candidate would also be to reward those who support him or her. I'm not saying this is a good or rational feeling, but I think its one many people have.

And as an example of this sort of thing, back when I used to live in Texas, I remember specifically voting against Lloyd Dogget for no better reason than Cindy Sheehan's unhinged rhetoric about prosecuting Bush/Cheney annoyed me intensely and Doggett had met with her for photo op's, etc. repeatedly during the whole 'camp casey' idiocy.
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  #61  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:27 AM
laura laura is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

It is a shame Kaus is not more commited either in time or willingness to go through Bob's little routine with comments. Given that Bob wants to do it, presumably with the goal of deepening the dialogue with the viewers, what better way?

As for the..."...half a dozen other commenters who just threw up in their mouths upon reading that..." ...I wouldn't elevate you to the role of sole diavlogger (with all due respect!!) but have a little rotation amoung the more mature commenters here. They appear to read others' comments and respond (frequently) with respect. They'd be even more likely to be respectful on camera.
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  #62  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:46 AM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I don't buy this. The entire 2000 campaign, we were hammered with "Gore lies" and "Bush is the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with." Gore should have won in a landslide, and he owns some of the blame for not doing so. However, I remain convinced that he would have at least won narrowly, had it not been for the MSM.
Actually, that election provides a host of good examples of the sort of boomerang-press-bias effect. I think both the 'pop quiz' on international leaders, as well as the press sitting on the DWI story until 5 days before the election, actually helped Bush, rather than hurt him, by making it look like the press was out to "get" him.

I voted for Gore in that election, in no small part because I thought the proposed "Office of Faith-based initiatives" was the worst political idea in a hundred years or so; even so, if you thought that election coverage was decidedly pro-bush, I think you have some reason to doubt your own objectivity in regards to media political coverage.
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  #63  
Old 09-26-2008, 12:03 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

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Originally Posted by Mr. Mayhem View Post
I, too, am impressed that Bob knows John McPhee.

Add me to the list of Mickey fans who are happy to see him again.
funny, i always thought that John McPhee was the rythm guitarist for Fleetwood Mac . . .
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  #64  
Old 09-26-2008, 12:07 PM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

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Originally Posted by handle View Post
Before, or after his Couric interview?
You can't suspend this presidential race, everything the candidates do is scrutinized, on, or off the court. Letterman is right, this just doesn't smell right.
I'll leave rank punditry to pros like Bob and Mickey, and network TV to shut-ins. My point is simply that Obama and McCain will have to a huge stake in whatever passes, and the voters deserve at a minimum to know where they stand. Furthermore, they have the opportunity to play a constructive role (or not) in their respective Party caucuses, an activity highly relevant to their ability to govern as President. Voters deserve this chance to judge their leadership skills under difficult circumstances. I don't see any way to argue otherwise without giving the basic concept of Democracy short shrift.
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  #65  
Old 09-26-2008, 01:09 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

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Originally Posted by Namazu View Post
I'll leave rank punditry to pros like Bob and Mickey, and network TV to shut-ins. My point is simply that Obama and McCain will have to a huge stake in whatever passes, and the voters deserve at a minimum to know where they stand. Furthermore, they have the opportunity to play a constructive role (or not) in their respective Party caucuses, an activity highly relevant to their ability to govern as President. Voters deserve this chance to judge their leadership skills under difficult circumstances. I don't see any way to argue otherwise without giving the basic concept of Democracy short shrift.
And my point is still that "campaign suspension" is utter bull crap and Mcain's inability to simultaneously govern, and act as a public figure is evidence that he doesn't even understand the job. He does, however, get points for the attempt (failed as it turns out) to turn a gross negative into a positive. But since you are above rank punditry, and network TV, you are comfortable with being manipulated by the "suspended campaign"? Is that what you mean?
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  #66  
Old 09-26-2008, 01:36 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: The stunt

My prediction has not come to pass. I wonder if McCain discovered there is no opportunity for persuasion with his colleagues. That would not bode well for him.
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  #67  
Old 09-26-2008, 01:40 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

Wait, turns out Mccain himself has "seen the light":
“My strong sense is that the best thing that I can do, rather than to inject presidential politics into some delicate negotiations, is to go down to Mississippi and explain to the American people what is going on and my vision for leading the country over the next four years,”
Added: the last line is an echo of what Obama said last night.
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  #68  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:48 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Governing vs. Campaigning

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
Added: the last line is an echo of what Obama said last
night.
I'd give that a big Oh, snap!
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  #69  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:51 PM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Bob, you totally missed the real misdirection of the Palin/Charlie Gibson interview. If they were actually 'worried about seeming too anti-Palin', they would not have done such a joke job editing the interview in a completely anti-Palin form.

If you are really judging the interview based entirely on what you saw on ABC, you are falling for the same thing that everyone from Frank Rich to Tina Fey used to unjustly ridicule Palin.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gla...alin-interview

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-b...ouble-standard

http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutal...-edited-g.html

To those who say there is no left-leaning msm, please provide links to the news networks and major newspapers that reported on ABC's editing job. Even worse, compare the treatment Palin got to Gibson's fawning interview with Obama.

Gibson's incredibly dishonest 'exact words' reference to Palin's use of prayer was another example of his left-leaning bias. He either totally lied or else had no idea that Palin was asking for a blessing that their mission was a just one. She joins Clinton, Kennedy, FDR and just about every other President in this regard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hpwM4Jjyrs
I saw the unedited (or at least, much less edited than what aired on broadcast) version floating around on Youtube the day after.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think that the primary takeaway people had from Palin's performance was negatively influenced by the editing. And, for what it's worth, the gotcha questions were probably the least damning part. As Kathleen Parker said today, it was just totally clear that she was out of her league.
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  #70  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:58 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
I remember specifically voting against Lloyd Dogget for no better reason than Cindy Sheehan's unhinged rhetoric about prosecuting Bush/Cheney annoyed me intensely and Doggett had met with her for photo op's, etc. repeatedly during the whole 'camp casey' idiocy.
What was idiotic about it?
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  #71  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:00 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaoneal View Post
Actually, that election provides a host of good examples of the sort of boomerang-press-bias effect. I think both the 'pop quiz' on international leaders, as well as the press sitting on the DWI story until 5 days before the election, actually helped Bush, rather than hurt him, by making it look like the press was out to "get" him.

I voted for Gore in that election, in no small part because I thought the proposed "Office of Faith-based initiatives" was the worst political idea in a hundred years or so; even so, if you thought that election coverage was decidedly pro-bush, I think you have some reason to doubt your own objectivity in regards to media political coverage.
You've given two transient examples to support your view of events and contradict my view that the MSM projected an ongoing message that was anti-Gore/pro-Bush, and I'm the one who has problems being objective?

I'll grant that the "pop quiz" worked to Bush's advantage in shoring up that part of the base who still swallows the "liberal media" myth. On the DWI thing, though, no. People who supported Gore were irritated that the story wasn't gotten out earlier, so that further investigation could have been done.

If I recall correctly, (added: I do, mostly) the story was finally broken by an independent reporter, which embarrassed the MSM into saying something about it. My sense was that they wouldn't have run it without this impetus. As it happens, I agree with that -- one episode like this from way in the past is irrelevant. But for you to imply it was some sort of October Surprise, coming from a media bent to get Bush, sorry, I don't at all agree. It wasn't a big enough embarrassment for any politician, and with Bush in particular, who ran that year mostly on his biographical narrative as someone who had seen the light and cleaned up his act, it probably helped more than it hurt.
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  #72  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
I saw the unedited (or at least, much less edited than what aired on broadcast) version floating around on Youtube the day after.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think that the primary takeaway people had from Palin's performance was negatively influenced by the editing. And, for what it's worth, the gotcha questions were probably the least damning part. As Kathleen Parker said today, it was just totally clear that she was out of her league.
Agreed.

And really, harkin: After seeing the Couric interview, why do you even bother trying to make the case that Palin hasn't been exposed, beyond a shadow of a doubt, as someone who is just not ready?

Clips here, here, here, and here, if you haven't seen them already.

Sorry that they're broken up like this; that's how they've become available. Even so, there is no doubt from watching them that it's not a matter of editing to make Palin look bad. She does that all by herself.
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  #73  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:15 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

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Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Mickey,

Loved your Bloggingheads Premiere blast. The only way that line could have been funnier was if you'd said Bloggingheads Select.
Nice.
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  #74  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:39 PM
ed fielding ed fielding is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Maybe I’m not judging accurately in the terms set by the Gibson interview; but the Couric interview did present Palin as not only incompetent, but wholly lacking what has come to be (or more likely has always been) expected of someone with a claim to leadership; self-possession, an appearance of mastery, and an ease of speaking. Her manner of speaking seemed more appropriate to a grocery check-out line or beauty-shop (or rural church coffee hour) conversation. Clumsy, disjointed, and fumbling, with a conspicuous absence of felicitous expression.
Anyone in Alaska with the slightest appreciation for educated expression must be embarrassed by the suggestion that this is the best the state can offer in contributing leadership to the nation.
Yet again, from one more angle, not someone to depend upon for representation on the world stage, or even in minor purely figurehead roles. She’s an embarrassment. She neither understands nor can express herself with any clarity on issues with which she should be familiar, as is anyone who bothers to pay attention to anything outside the front door. She utterly lacks any semblance of graceful or intelligent expression.
Distasteful, incompetent, and devious; insulting and disastrous. The crowning capstone of a campaign distinguished by the sublime suitability of these five adjectives.
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  #75  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:48 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed fielding View Post
Maybe I’m not judging accurately in the terms set by the Gibson interview; but the Couric interview did present Palin as not only incompetent, but wholly lacking what has come to be (or more likely has always been) expected of someone with a claim to leadership; self-possession, an appearance of mastery, and an ease of speaking. Her manner of speaking seemed more appropriate to a grocery check-out line or beauty-shop (or rural church coffee hour) conversation. Clumsy, disjointed, and fumbling, with a conspicuous absence of felicitous expression.
Anyone in Alaska with the slightest appreciation for educated expression must be embarrassed by the suggestion that this is the best the state can offer in contributing leadership to the nation.
Yet again, from one more angle, not someone to depend upon for representation on the world stage, or even in minor purely figurehead roles. She’s an embarrassment. She neither understands nor can express herself with any clarity on issues with which she should be familiar, as is anyone who bothers to pay attention to anything outside the front door. She utterly lacks any semblance of graceful or intelligent expression.
Distasteful, incompetent, and devious; insulting and disastrous. The crowning capstone of a campaign distinguished by the sublime suitability of these five adjectives.
No mooseburgers for you!
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  #76  
Old 09-26-2008, 05:05 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Re: Suspended Animation

But seriously folks, I am genuinely curious as to where she got that accent, I've been to Alaska, and Idaho, and everyone I spoke to sounded like me, generic west coast. Did she watch Fargo too many times? I know I did...
gee maargie d'yaa think thaat pootins raysin 'is head agin theer? ooh jeeez!
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  #77  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:21 PM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Default Re: McCain bias effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
What was idiotic about it?
I'll let Hitch speak to that, see http://www.slate.com/id/2124500/ & http://www.slate.com/id/2124788/
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  #78  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:45 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Location: US Northeast
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Default Re: Suspended Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
But seriously folks, I am genuinely curious as to where she got that accent, I've been to Alaska, and Idaho, and everyone I spoke to sounded like me, generic west coast. Did she watch Fargo too many times? I know I did...
gee maargie d'yaa think thaat pootins raysin 'is head agin theer? ooh jeeez!
It may be her free interpretation of distinguished speech. Like "affected" speech of sorts, mooseburger style. Get it?
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  #79  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:48 PM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Default Re: McCain bias effects

Okay, if my original thought experiment doesn't convince you a brief one-sided argument will only entrench resistance, try the following actual experiment.

Pick some random alternative to the Paulson plan (the actual issue here doesn't matter, but preferably it would be an issue people know a little about, but have no previously entrenched opinion on.) For example, the position that we should buy stock in the banks, or the position that we should simply give the money to distressed mortgage holders, etc.

Tell 20 people this is what we should do, give only a single brief argument in its favor that does not touch upon other alternatives, and (importantly, to make it symmetric to the case of the media) do not respond if people offer a counter-argument. Remain silent. Then poll the people to see if you convinced them.

I believe you will find a brief one-sided argument will fail to sway a majority and in fact will push people away from that point of view as your interlocutors will identify more with their own counter-arguments rather than your brief exposition.
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  #80  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:48 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Suspended Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed fielding View Post
Distasteful, incompetent, and devious; insulting and disastrous. The crowning capstone of a campaign distinguished by the sublime suitability of these five adjectives.
D.I.D.I.D.? Did you do this on purpose?

Poetic expression of a crude reality...
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