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Old 02-26-2012, 07:13 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: More on Fakegate!

Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I'm not sure how to respond to this. Stop and think after putting some perspective in the topic? What can this mean?
It means that with this kind of topic which involves: A) considering a major natural disaster, with the possibility of affecting billions of lives, even if projected into future decades, and B) it also involves looking for possible solutions or palliative measures, energy sources, and huge amounts of capital, looking at fights between people on one side or the other isn't really important. It's plainly distracting.

You seem to have the opinion that the character of the people who are on your side of the issue isn't important and yet you cling to the meme of your 97% and want to trust them and the people who conducted the study... because? And, how can it feel lonely amongst such an overwhelming majority?
If you think about it, "the people who are on my side" are thousands of scientists and many thousands more of people of all kinds of background and millions (or billions) more who are really concerned about what's going on with climate. So, the character (or the mistakes) of a few, isn't all that relevant to the total.

If you've ever been in the middle of a situation where the stakes are really high, a life or death situation, you will probably know that people get overly excitable and passionate about their views. But none of that passion and excitability affects the objective data that's being collected. Computer models don't get easily annoyed. Statistical analysis doesn't get biased one way or the other. And every time there's a review of the data and the way it's been analyzed, the resulting opinion seems to be quite consistent in the general direction, although there margin of error is such that the degree or the time frame in which the most alarming events may occur varies.


This whole thing has been handled incredibly badly ever since Gore burst upon the scene with his apocalyptic visions and predictions... none of which have come true or were set so far in the future that it was impossible to test their veracity or accuracy. He thought he could scare the crap out of people and that would be that. It is not the oil companies who have influenced the majority of skeptics who are still in possession of their common sense.
You should move on and forget about Gore. He served a role to communicate the problem, perhaps in an exaggerated way. But even if exaggerated, it doesn't invalidate the problem. Just take him out of your equation and look at the data as it is.

Of course, if you prefer to believe that tiny minority of skeptics, who are not the most recognized authority in the field, then you can continue your campaign here.

But every time you use the argument "scientists are saying this to get more money for themselves" or similar claims, think about why it would be that this particular kind of scientist would be so unethical. Or are you implying that all scientists are equally unethical? Biologists? Physicists? Chemists? How come we're enjoying all kinds of scientific discoveries and advances if these people are so corrupt? Don't you find some incongruity in that kind of assessment?

Anyway, many people have tried to debate this issue with you and you don't seem to be receptive, so I'll leave it there. Sometimes it is what it is.
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