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  #1  
Old 09-04-2008, 06:28 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default What Makes America Great

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  #2  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Rez Rez is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Mark - The problem with your analysis on the bridge to nowhere, the 527s etc. is if you can't explain it clearly in about 10 seconds it doesn't work. The troopergate thing, the more you look into it, she went after an abusive cop who taserd his own 10 year old son. You really think that hurts her? Big mistake dude.

Ted Steven tried to destroy her. She took out an icon in her race for Governor by 30 points. Her claim to be a Maverick is not something you can take down.

There are avenues for attack. you guys haven't found it yet -- I think you will, but will it be too late?
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:25 PM
John M John M is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Dear My Friend Rez,

Here's some straight talk: Suzy Palin is going to be a great vice-president. She is my soulmate.

And just because I like to stare at her butt doesn't mean I don't take her seriously. I like to stare at a lot of butts. Obama isn't bad in the butt department either. Neither is pro-choicer Tom Ridge (a little chunky).

Suzy and I will keep this country at war and abolish abortion. You will be proud of your military because we'll be taking out lots of bad people -- Islamofascists and maybe Russkies too.

Thank you for your generous support.
John M
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:38 AM
bHo bHo is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

For my esteemed colleague

Welcome Back, Dad

Barack
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:18 PM
Sara Sara is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

It's kind of funny to watch this in the aftermath of the Palin speech. Love or hate her policy positions, you can't disagree that she rocked that speech as far as pure political theater goes. And she came within a million viewers of Obama's speech.
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2008, 08:53 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

I definitely disagree. Not only did she have nothing of substance to say, she seemed very amateur to me in her tone, pacing, stepping on applause etc. To me it was about as moving as the girl in Napolean Dynamite who makes the speech insinuating that voting for Pedro will mean "chimichangas" at lunchtime. I'm sure it reached Reps, but I doubt too many Independents in swing states were sold (especially those that are interested in actual policy recommendations rather than talking points.)

I have a feeling alot of this will die down after the convention when the focus tends to go back to the TOP portion of the ticket.

And the GOP better be very careful about not falling into the mold of making their whole argument " we're not Obama". This is the same mistake that the Dems made in 2004 by effectively campaigning as "Not Bush." Not a great tactic.

If Palin so worthy, why isn't she being allowed to answer any questions from the media?

I think the earmark issue (the fact that Alaska had the highest amount of earmarks per capita, in the country, under Palin's watch) could be something that McCain is going to have a tough time dancing around.
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Anyuser Anyuser is offline
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I have a feeling a lot of this will die down after the convention when the focus tends to go back to the TOP portion of the ticket.
We'll have an indication tomorrow (Friday) morning when the first tracking polls completed after her speech (strictly speaking, one-third after her speech) are published.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Thus Spoke Elvis Thus Spoke Elvis is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post

I think the earmark issue (the fact that Alaska had the highest amount of earmarks per capita, in the country, under Palin's watch) could be something that McCain is going to have a tough time dancing around.
But that's ALWAYS been the case with Alaska. Have earmarks gone up or down under Palin is the more relevant question. Though even then, I'm not sure how much responsibility she bears either way -- it's Alaska's representatives to the U.S. Congress that are responsible for federal earmarks, not the governor (though the McCain campaign won't mention this if they want to keep her "fight against earmarks" a talking point).

I think it's clear that Palin's record of reform has been a bit inflated, though it's nonetheless pretty great in comparison to most Alaskan politicians. And even if it is kinda bullshit, it's the sort of bullshit people want to believe about themselves. I honestly think that if Palin is elected to national office she will try to live up to the myth about her, in the same way that McCain really became a "maverick" (for a couple years anyway) after his 2000 campaign, even if he wasn't much of one beforehand.

While I don't think Palin is qualified to be VP and I probably won't be voting for her ticket, I do think she would try to live up to her reputation as a reformer if elected, no matter how unfoundedthat reputation might originally have been.

Last edited by Thus Spoke Elvis; 09-05-2008 at 02:51 PM..
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2008, 07:51 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thus Spoke Elvis View Post
But that's ALWAYS been the case with Alaska. Have earmarks gone up or down under Palin is the more relevant question. Though even then, I'm not sure how much responsibility she bears either way -- it's Alaska's representatives to the U.S. Congress that are responsible for federal earmarks, not the governor (though the McCain campaign won't mention this if they want to keep her "fight against earmarks" a talking point).

I think it's clear that Palin's record of reform has been a bit inflated, though it's nonetheless pretty great in comparison to most Alaskan politicians. And even if it is kinda bullshit, it's the sort of bullshit people want to believe about themselves. I honestly think that if Palin is elected to national office she will try to live up to the myth about her, in the same way that McCain really became a "maverick" (for a couple years anyway) after his 2000 campaign, even if he wasn't much of one beforehand.

While I don't think Palin is qualified to be VP and I probably won't be voting for her ticket, I do think she would try to live up to her reputation as a reformer if elected, no matter how unfoundedthat reputation might originally have been.
You're applying the wrong standard, I think. Questions of political responsibility are pretty often independent of the issue of actual responsibility. McCain is going to take a hit for the current state of the economy, especially if job numbers continue their current trend, regardless of the fact that the Senator from Arizona hasn't had the opportunity to really affect the national economy on a grand scale. The question for Palin in this regard is whether her record as a reformer is seen in the terms she'd like it to be, or if it is successfully spun as a contradiction of the natrrative she wants portrayed. That seems like a wide open question at the moment.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:33 PM
Anyuser Anyuser is offline
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara View Post
Love or hate her policy positions, you can't disagree that she rocked that speech as far as pure political theater goes.
I agree with the rocking part, but it's bad theater, isn't it? If the 2008 campaign were a play, the author would be criticized for introducing a deus ex machina in the last act.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:50 AM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara View Post
It's kind of funny to watch this in the aftermath of the Palin speech. Love or hate her policy positions, you can't disagree that she rocked that speech as far as pure political theater goes. And she came within a million viewers of Obama's speech.
Call me crazy, but I don't think her speech proved much other than America is probably more ready for a woman president than a female VP, at least if you're going to use the Veep-as-bad-cop model that the McCain campaign is going for.

There's a fine art to trashing someone without sounding unhinged and mean. It has to seem almost collegial. Mocking Obama's service to a poor community makes her seem Coulter-esque, which is an objectively bad move. Something tells me that this wasn't the speech she herself would give if given the opportunity to write one. It didn't even feel like the speech McCain would want her to give.

To me, it was a missed opportunity for the GOP, because Pallin could be a powerful candidate for president in the future. And you don't make an up and comer into the attack dog. Let Lindsey Graham be the heavy, he seems to enjoy it.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Joe Joe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

McCardle's arguments about the Founders' lack of experience are really misplaced. The claim that they were inexperienced is just nuts. The Founders were only inexperienced in the sense that there were no former colonies in the late 1700's which became federated republics. However, nearly all the founders were involved in their local colonial governments (Adams, Franklin, Jefferson); were highly educated and from the upper classes at the time (Madison, Adams, Jefferson, Washington); were accomplished lawyers (Adams, Hamilton); had diplomatic experience (Franklin); and had military experience (Washington, Hamilton); and all the founders thought about what government should be for a long time prior to the Constitutional Convention. The Constitutional debates often centered around not only contemporary government models but the classical models of Athens, Sparta, and the Roman Republic. Franklin was one of the most experienced men in Pennsylvania. These men were the cream of their societies.
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2008, 08:04 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Joe:

Good on you for taking the time to point out in detail one of the many completely wrong statements Megan let fly in this one. I just can't bear to make the effort any more.

When she started in on "Obama's really small bounce," the "declining viewership," and the claim that McCain has weak support among Republican voters, that was the last straw. I couldn't take any more. It's clear she can't even be bothered to read newspapers or news blogs.

It is a real shame to waste a visit from Mark Kleiman is all I can say.

Please stop having Megan on, Bob. Or at least pair her with someone else who it would bother me less to have to skip.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2008, 09:00 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Exactly 10 min and 30 sec. That's all I could tolerate of this girl Megan. What's she talking about? She doesn't seem to be informed or particularly intelligent. Her opinions are rather idiosyncratic. She doesn't even listen to what Mark is saying. Why is she blogging here?

Doesn't she sound like a spoiled teenager who was elected as class president and now wants to run the school? and the district? and interrupts others to tell them about her thoughts and feelings?

I really wanted to hear what Mark had to say, and she kept interrupting with nonsense. He spent more time correcting her misinformation than elaborating on his thoughts.

I'm really very disappointed that she (and AA) keep ruining these diavlogs. Was it imperative to have some woman to discuss even more of the other woman?

Can we get something a little more interesting, please?
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:49 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Beware the Silent Majority

Don't piss off the "ones" who like her! Although we don't know who likes whom really, we have to give every 'head a free pass every time because of one hypothetical person's, and not real person's, preference.

Besides, she works for The Atlantic, so she has to good, right? Editorial writers run dry, so do 'heads. More talent, less repetition!

Note to Wright: This is the first diavlog I listened to in God knows how many. And, now I'm scared to come back. Oh, ok, I'm bored during office hours, so ok I'll listen. Maybe...
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:32 AM
grits-n-gravy grits-n-gravy is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Exactly 10 min and 30 sec. That's all I could tolerate of this girl Megan. What's she talking about? She doesn't seem to be informed or particularly intelligent. Her opinions are rather idiosyncratic. She doesn't even listen to what Mark is saying. Why is she blogging here?

Doesn't she sound like a spoiled teenager who was elected as class president and now wants to run the school? and the district? and interrupts others to tell them about her thoughts and feelings?
Mark is one of my favorite bloggingheads, and I agree with you about Megan. Her performance was disappointing to say the least. I just couldn't understand why it was so difficult for her to concede Mark's point about Palin's dubious reform record twenty minutes in. Megan's "ah, its complicated" was classic cognitive dissonance on display.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2008, 01:00 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by grits-n-gravy View Post
Mark is one of my favorite bloggingheads, and I agree with you about Megan. Her performance was disappointing to say the least. I just couldn't understand why it was so difficult for her to concede Mark's point about Palin's dubious reform record twenty minutes in. Megan's "ah, its complicated" was classic cognitive dissonance on display.
Quite possibly the stupidest point I've ever seen made in a political discussion was Megan's "you cannot praise Bill Clinton if you also say that Palin does not directly command the Alaska National Guard." I mean, how do you even respond to that?
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:36 PM
cragger cragger is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

From the diavlog I saw, I think there are two different things here. She agrees that the Palin-the-reformer narrative is false. I took her point to be within the political realm, where things that don't fit a 10-words-or-less soundbite are taken to be too complex for many in the general electorate and will have no traction.

While the odd political junkie who isn't simply interested in reinforcement of their preconceptions might agree that Mr. Kleinman is correct, the open question is how many undecided voters will get enough information to make an informed opinion and reject the advertising as false. You may think her opinion that any complexity is beyond the apathetic voters outside the partisan cores is overly cynical. Others look at the sorry-ass government we elect and accept and reply "evidence of the glassies mate."


Not to join the "everybody hates Megan" bandwagon, but what is with that top she was wearing? Not that people wouldn't make fun of my sorry fashion sense, but it looks like a gift from an elderly relative that a considerate family member would gush over, perhaps wear once on a visit to the giver in order to show appreciation, and never again.
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  #19  
Old 09-06-2008, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by cragger View Post
From the diavlog I saw, I think there are two different things here. She agrees that the Palin-the-reformer narrative is false. I took her point to be within the political realm, where things that don't fit a 10-words-or-less soundbite are taken to be too complex for many in the general electorate and will have no traction.

While the odd political junkie who isn't simply interested in reinforcement of their preconceptions might agree that Mr. Kleinman is correct, the open question is how many undecided voters will get enough information to make an informed opinion and reject the advertising as false. You may think her opinion that any complexity is beyond the apathetic voters outside the partisan cores is overly cynical. Others look at the sorry-ass government we elect and accept and reply "evidence of the glassies mate."
While Mark was tattling to the teacher, it was amusing to see Megan's detached practicality. I think in the end it will boil down to a flurry of negative ads from both sides, and the sins of Sarah will be much more easy to rationalize away than those of the other three.


Quote:
Not to join the "everybody hates Megan" bandwagon, but what is with that top she was wearing? Not that people wouldn't make fun of my sorry fashion sense, but it looks like a gift from an elderly relative that a considerate family member would gush over, perhaps wear once on a visit to the giver in order to show appreciation, and never again.
You are so square.
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2008, 04:59 AM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Here is an apparently minor thing that bothered me about McCardle: the unnecessarily ostentatious and flamboyant way in which she swigged liquid on-screen. For me, this shows contempt for both the viewer and the interlocutor. Similar displays in a Mickey-Bob diavlog do not engender a similar reaction because of the underlying humorous conceit of love-hate in that ongoing public relationship, but perhaps there is an element of sexism involved here too. I will leave that to the estimable McCardle to decipher.

The first time I saw McCardle she was in Thailand, and I liked her fine. Upon her return, I liked her much less, only then discovering that she is an avowed libertarian with serious intellectual pretensions. She was interviewing the fellow who had written a PC book about sex traffickers, and she gave a performance that was very off-putting. Reading the comments here, I see that McCardle apparently has many detractors. I will just say that she does seem to be a very smug and supercilious sort of person, and she had better have the goods to back it up. She is always "looking at the data" to support this or that claim about social reality, and I guess my ultimate judgment about her would depend upon whether or not she is looking at data selectively and interpreting them properly.

Why does there have to be so much airtime devoted to the young Turks of libertarianism? I've watched a fair amount of this stuff now, and I don't see what's so compelling about it. Are "libertarians" the only people who look at data? I would not have thought so. And what is so interesting about the idea that we would like to preserve as much liberty as is consistent with something that can be recognized as the general welfare? Are the Scandinavians out to crush liberty? Like bj, I prefer the learned Kleiman to McCardle, who is always looking into this or that, whereas Kleiman seems actually to have completed some studies.

To be honest, I got very bored when McCardle started to talk about her bankruptcy research, but I might give that another shot. I got the general idea: bankruptcy law in the US has gone hand-in-hand with our much ballyhooed entrepreneurial spirit. But what's the conclusion? It should neither be too difficult nor too easy for an individual to declare bankruptcy. Wow, what insight. You don't have to be a libertarian to come up with that.

Last edited by ledocs; 09-07-2008 at 05:14 AM..
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  #21  
Old 09-09-2008, 02:20 AM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Here is an apparently minor thing that bothered me about McCardle: the unnecessarily ostentatious and flamboyant way in which she swigged liquid on-screen. For me, this shows contempt for both the viewer and the interlocutor. Similar displays in a Mickey-Bob diavlog do not engender a similar reaction because of the underlying humorous conceit of love-hate in that ongoing public relationship, but perhaps there is an element of sexism involved here too. I will leave that to the estimable McCardle to decipher.
Don't know if it's sexism, or if she just annoys the hell out of you. Other inveterate swiggers are Drezner, Loury, McWhorter, and Brooks.
Quote:
To be honest, I got very bored when McCardle started to talk about her bankruptcy research, but I might give that another shot. I got the general idea: bankruptcy law in the US has gone hand-in-hand with our much ballyhooed entrepreneurial spirit. But what's the conclusion? It should neither be too difficult nor too easy for an individual to declare bankruptcy. Wow, what insight. You don't have to be a libertarian to come up with that.
I thought it was fascinating that in some of the places she mentioned, you can't declare bankruptcy, or if you do, you lose your law or medical licence. That's harsh. The bankruptcy bill is a travesty. I recently read that Clinton vetoed it. But Hillary and Biden voted for it.

Kleiman is ok, depending. He was good with Merritt and Mac Donald, but with Loury, long ago, he came across as unrealistic, with regard to the Obama love. But I watched that in retrospect, and it was funny to see how things had progressed over time. That is, the shine was off the apple.
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:41 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Partisanship

There's a thread connecting both Joe's and bjkeefe's comments: partisanship.

The mistakes the various groups of Founders made were often made because of honest disagreements, personal jealousies, their individual interests and those of their local aristocrats, and the efforts of the enemy to trip them up at any opportunity.

I also though McArdle argued bitterly and pettily in the opening stretches. Again, there's politics and then there's issues. McArdle played that equivocation when she couldn't find substance. There was the talking points, like the Obama expectation game on the DNC speech David Brooks first trotted out.

POI: Obama didn't get a 15-point bounce because the Clinton bounce was an aberration caused by the defection of Perot voters. Obama earned his bounce. Also, so many people are watching online, whether directly through the DNC feed, or YouTube, then polling of TV viewers will not give a true sample.

If the GOP campaign, and bhTV, continues to be this partisan and nasty for 60days, this might be my last comment on domestic issues for awhile.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:33 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Partisanship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
If the GOP campaign, and bhTV, continues to be this partisan and nasty for 60days, this might be my last comment on domestic issues for awhile.
How can you avoid partisanship? We are not talking about subtle differences. There is a real split in the global view of reality between the two parties. I don't see, at this point, a common ground that would allow non-partisan dialog. Of course, here and there you can find individuals that appear to be in that inter-partisan frontier. But, frankly, I see them as floating above the abyss.

Perhaps at Congress level you can find some blurring of those boundaries, but in the Presidential campaign, there are two visions of the world quite distinct from each other. You pick one or the other, not much to figure out in between. I know that seems too simple, too black and white. But from a truly liberal perspective the other side is unimaginable. Presidential elections are about polarizing. They set the tone for the party.

I can relate to your sentiment of wanting to detach from this shallow process for a while. As much as I have expressed my opinion here and have followed others' discussions, I have a growing need to move away from the day to day debilitating nonsensical dynamics of politics. The last several diavlogs have been about Palin. We all needed to figure her out and we all spilled our thoughts, hopes, fears and speculations. Enough.

Wouldn't it be more productive to have intelligent, knowledgeable diavloggers come talk about what the problems are and what direction to take, rather than the McArdle types who are more reminiscent of bar chatter?

Nasty discussions about nasty politics. I guess we either take it or leave it. Or fade in and out as your stamina permits.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2008, 06:33 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Big Tent Compromises

My major concerns domestically have little to do with "issues" (aside from universal health care, without which I'm not bringing my wife to the States): campaign finance, gerrymandering, primary election reform, and popular representation. I know from arguing with people all my life and reading blogs from a faraway country, that there are more than two flavors in political opinion in the States. I resent how all debate and political activity is channeled into two streams so that interest groups have an easy decision choosing between which safe horse to back to get what each wants.
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  #25  
Old 09-05-2008, 07:09 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Big Tent Compromises

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
My major concerns domestically have little to do with "issues" (aside from universal health care, without which I'm not bringing my wife to the States): campaign finance, gerrymandering, primary election reform, and popular representation. I know from arguing with people all my life and reading blogs from a faraway country, that there are more than two flavors in political opinion in the States. I resent how all debate and political activity is channeled into two streams so that interest groups have an easy decision choosing between which safe horse to back to get what each wants.
So what are you going to do about it? A lot of people dislike the two party system, but it's not something that's going to change in your lifetime or, for that matter, the lifetime of your great-grandchildren. Given the difficulty of amending the Constitution, I can't see us ever making the changes necessary to turn the US turns into a multi-party system.
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  #26  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:02 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Big Tent Compromises

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
My major concerns domestically have little to do with "issues" (aside from universal health care, without which I'm not bringing my wife to the States): campaign finance, gerrymandering, primary election reform, and popular representation. I know from arguing with people all my life and reading blogs from a faraway country, that there are more than two flavors in political opinion in the States. I resent how all debate and political activity is channeled into two streams so that interest groups have an easy decision choosing between which safe horse to back to get what each wants.
I think there are many issues. One of the big ones being what direction this country is going to take within the international community. There are going to be many challenges internally for the U.S. to continue to pour the all-mighty attitude externally. Either this country starts to settle the fights that it has promoted everywhere, or domestic agendas will continue to go unattended and the pressure will continue to build up until the system becomes chaotic.

Americans need to become politically informed and involved. Voting a candidate's charm or obeying your local God's representative fear- loaded mandate will not do. Civic education and information, responsibility and participation can go a long way.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2008, 11:02 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
McCardle's arguments about the Founders' lack of experience are really misplaced. The claim that they were inexperienced is just nuts. The Founders were only inexperienced in the sense that there were no former colonies in the late 1700's which became federated republics. However, nearly all the founders were involved in their local colonial governments (Adams, Franklin, Jefferson); were highly educated and from the upper classes at the time (Madison, Adams, Jefferson, Washington); were accomplished lawyers (Adams, Hamilton); had diplomatic experience (Franklin); and had military experience (Washington, Hamilton); and all the founders thought about what government should be for a long time prior to the Constitutional Convention. The Constitutional debates often centered around not only contemporary government models but the classical models of Athens, Sparta, and the Roman Republic. Franklin was one of the most experienced men in Pennsylvania. These men were the cream of their societies.
Until the founding of the USA most republics had been small and had natural defensive advantages, and sadly, short-lived, so the founders were eager to learn from the problems republics had in the past. I can't remember the book where I read this (maybe I'll think of it later), but I recall Jefferson shipping over a couple of trunks of histories and political theory from Paris to Madison, who devoured them and poured that into our Constitution (and the Federalist Papers). He also wrote a little pamphlet called Ancient and Modern Confederacies for the constitutional conventioneers.

I cannot conceive of anything like that among today's Republicans. Palin's obviously smart, or at least cunning, but I really doubt she, or McCain, Romney, Huckabee, Limbaugh, Dobson would be up to that. Today we get powerpoints from the Heritage Foundation, paid for by oil companies and billionaires.
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  #28  
Old 09-05-2008, 11:08 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Quote:
Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
I cannot conceive of anything like that among today's Republicans. Palin's obviously smart, or at least cunning, but I really doubt she, or McCain, Romney, Huckabee, Limbaugh, Dobson would be up to that. Today we get powerpoints from the Heritage Foundation, paid for by oil companies and billionaires.
Awesome.
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  #29  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:02 PM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Maybe if Mark and Megan had kept this diavlog to an hour, they could have spent less time patting themselves on the back for their sophistication and provided some links for some of their "fine grained" claims and counterclaims.
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  #30  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:27 PM
rgajria rgajria is offline
 
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Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Miss. McArdle says that the charges against Governor Palin are inside baseball that would only interest political junkies. The fact that Governor Palin is misrepresenting herself and her record is only for political junkies!!!
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  #31  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:27 PM
Anyuser Anyuser is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Default Megan

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Joe: It's clear she can't even be bothered to read newspapers or news blogs.

It is a real shame to waste a visit from Mark Kleiman is all I can say.

Please stop having Megan on, Bob. Or at least pair her with someone else who it would bother me less to have to skip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Doesn't she sound like a spoiled teenager who was elected as class president and now wants to run the school? and the district? and interrupts others to tell them about her thoughts and feelings?

Can we get something a little more interesting, please?
Jebus! What a couple of bitchy scolds.

I like Megan beaucoup. Big personality and smart as a whip.

Last edited by Anyuser; 09-04-2008 at 11:35 PM..
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  #32  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:04 AM
hankporter hankporter is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 6
Default Re: Megan

I comment rarely on blogs and try to be positive, and often as a scold to rude trolls and anonymous commenters, but...

I find Megan Mcardle increasingly difficult to watch/read. I know she gets an awful lot of criticism, and I'm not trying to echo their shrillness.

Regardless, I find that she often conflates the personal with the universal. I have a difficult time with her supposed economist's rationality, when her evidence for any assertion is her own experience or that of her friends (or her image of what other "real" people might be thinking.)

I watch vlogs with Loury/McWhorter, the Free Wills, and the Science Saturdays where ideas seem to matter and assertions must be backed up. It seems like Mcardle just talks and expects her assertions to be taken at face value.

My $.02.

Hank

Last edited by hankporter; 09-05-2008 at 12:06 AM..
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  #33  
Old 09-05-2008, 06:46 PM
allbetsareoff allbetsareoff is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 32
Default Re: Megan

Am I hearing this right? Palin is untouchable because she's attractive and average (the average people McArdle knows must be different from the ones I know), and pointing out that Palin doesn't know squat about most major issues will alienate regular people, who also don't know squat.

Presumably, McArdle has her platinum elite media card.
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  #34  
Old 09-05-2008, 02:16 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Posts: 334
Default Re: What Makes America Great

I think Ferraro was as much of an ordinary person as Palin.
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  #35  
Old 09-05-2008, 02:24 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

I think Sarah Palin has a "commanding personality" and I think Hillary Clinton is a "nice Mom."
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2008, 02:32 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Location: NYC
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

I think Mark's version of Biden-Kinnock is the more correct. If Megan is going to be attacking Biden on this, there ought to be an effort to establish exactly what the facts are.
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  #37  
Old 09-05-2008, 05:24 AM
Francoamerican
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Default Re: What Makes America Great

Let me see if I understand Mcardle: the founders were inexperienced "putzes" (?), but Palin is a brilliant "electorial choice" because she appeals to the lowest common denominator of the American electorate (and that is pretty low indeed). Making fun of her will backfire because most people consider themselves equal to the task of governing....

Anyone capable of uttering such populist piffle has disqualified herself from commenting on politics.
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  #38  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:04 AM
Xelgaex Xelgaex is offline
 
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Posts: 51
Default Re: What Makes America Great

I'm 20 minutes in. Megan thinks ordinary people will not like attacks on Palin's lack of experience because they think they could run Washington. But attacks on Palin's unsavory parts of Palin's experience won't work either because that's "inside baseball." So basically her argument is "The Democrats are going to lose because the average American is an idiot."

Hopefully Mark can convince her to argue something on the merits. The "But how will it play?" question is important, but it's far from all that needs to be considered.

Besides anyone watching BH.tv is not likely to be a low-information voter, and I for one do know who Ted Stevens is and what a 527 group is.
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  #39  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Xelgaex Xelgaex is offline
 
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Posts: 51
Default Re: What Makes America Great

Megan McArdle: Concern Troll
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  #40  
Old 09-05-2008, 11:26 AM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Posts: 193
Default Kleiman's Take On Biden's Sins

I don't think Kleiman's take on Sen. Biden's past plagarism issues really covers it, here's a paragraph from the noted McCain-boosters over at Slate:

Quote:
But Biden's exit from the 1988 race is worth recalling in detail, because his transgressions far exceeded Obama's own relatively innocent lifting of rhetorical set pieces from his friend Deval Patrick, which occasioned a brief flap last February. Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect. In some ways, the 1988 campaign—in which scandal forced not just Biden but also Gary Hart from the race—marked a watershed in the absurd gotcha politics that have since marred our politics and punditry. But unlike Hart's plight, Biden's can't be blamed on an overly intrusive or hectoring press corps. The press was right to dig into this one.
Slate Article 1

Slate Article 2
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Chauvinist troll.
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