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Old 01-03-2008, 11:16 AM
Abu Noor Al-Irlandee Abu Noor Al-Irlandee is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 392
Default Re: "Wiping Israel off the face of the map."


You're right that there are some Muslims that are "doing" something about the existence of Israel, the vast majority of Muslims and Muslim governments are not. Even those that are trying have shown themselves thus far to be militarily incapable of threatening the existence of Israel.

Most Palestinians and most Muslim governments are in favor of a "two state" solution which would allow them to accept an Israeli state. The problem with the "Jewish" nature of the Israeli state is that it sets up a policy whereby any person with a certain kind of ethnicity is said to have the "right" to go and live in Israel on land that was taken by military conquest (despite the fact that they may have no actual prior connection to the land) while the people who used to live on that land are barred from ever returning based on their ethnicity and religion -- that's pretty hard for most people to swallow.

You know, I must say that I honestly don't know what would happen if there was a fair two state solution. The Israelis have given absolutely no indication that we'll find out anytime soon since they have clearly adopted a strategy which believes that due to their military force the status quo is just fine with them. The situation as it stands now though is so unjust that it simply cannot stand and the Israeli position is in the long term untenable. Also, every year that goes by with the Israelis continuing this position creates more hatred and resentment around the world, particularly but not only among Muslims making their situation even more difficult and more untenable.

Even the Iranian regime states that if the Palestinian people accept a negotiated solution this is their right...it does not claim that it will continue the struggle until Israel is completely destroyed. All other Muslim regimes are absolutely clear that this is their position. Yes, there will be a certain minority of the Muslim community either due to a "fundamentalist" religious belief that the land is "Muslim" land or hardline Palestinian nationalist fundamentalist view which demands all of the land it considers Palestine but as I said if there was a negotiated agreement these would be small minorities and I don't know what potential they would have to continue to stir up trouble.

History would show us that some segment of the Palestinian population like Abbas and his Fatah henchmen will negotiate some type of agreement which will be unacceptable to most of the Palestinians but they will then brutally crush any resistance to acceptance of it amongst Palestinians. They will be fully assisted in doing so by the Israelis but they, as is always the case with puppets and stooges, will able to much more brutal than any foreigner could be and get away with it. As I said, the Israelis don't even feel the need to do this much at this point and believe they can sustain brutal and naked occupation through military force long enough to steal some more land and hopefully beat the Palestinians into submission enough to give them even a worse 'deal'. I believe it is completely unsustainable and they are creating a situation for themselves that may go beyond the point at which they will be able to salvage their position in this world, and more importantly beyond the point at which they will be able to salvage the "soul" of their country.

But God alone knows what the future holds.

Originally Posted by mvantony View Post
Abu Noor:

First of all, it's not just that Ahmadinejad and most Muslims "don't accept the legitimacy" of Israel. Presumably there are Native Americans who don't accept the legitimacy of the USA, but they aren't doing anything about it (because they can't). In contrast, the Iranian regime and other elements in the Muslim world can and are doing things -- constantly -- to bring about the destruction of the state of Israel. There have been several wars, countless acts of terror, support for terror, political pressure wherever and whenever it can be applied, ongoing efforts to strengthen their military position relative to that of Israel, etc.

Second, it's not just the "current Israeli state and regime" that Ahmadinejad and most Muslims don't accept and want to destroy. Any state or regime in part of Mandatory Palestine that is a Jewish homeland (whether democracy, monarchy, communist, etc.) would be unacceptable, and a target for destruction. It's the Jewish (or perhaps non-Muslim) character of the state that's the problem, not the particular regime that currently holds power in Israel. Compare Japan and Germany after WWII: although by the end of the war the regimes in both countries had "fallen from the pages of time," the Japanese and German peoples remained culturally and politically dominant in their respective countries. For Ahmadinejad and most Muslims, nothing comparable would be acceptable for the Jewish people in Israel -- even given a two-state solution which the Palestinians found acceptable.
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