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  #1  
Old 06-01-2009, 10:26 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

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  #2  
Old 06-01-2009, 10:34 PM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Usually I try to follow Jeffrey's example and not get overly out-of-breath about this topic, but this has me freaked out:

Jeffrey & Jackie, October 16 2006

Jeffrey & Jackie today

Not Good.

On the plus side, Jeffrey's tie is stupendous.
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Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 06-01-2009 at 10:54 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2009, 10:39 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

I probably shouldn't be this pumped about listening to wonks talk nukes for an hour, but Shire and Lewis are one of my favorite BH pairs. You guys rock.

edit: bad(?) news on the Twitter front, it's a psuedo-impostor. It's not the KCNA, but it apparently just auto-tweets all the KCNA's press releases. If I remember my just war theory, a false flag twitter feed is a casus belli.
This is how the world ends
Not with a bang but a twitter

Last edited by pampl; 06-01-2009 at 11:27 PM..
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2009, 11:32 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
This is how the world ends
Not with a bang but a twitter.
Quip of the week!
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2009, 04:51 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel_Cairo View Post
Usually I try to follow Jeffrey's example and not get overly out-of-breath about this topic, but this has me freaked out:

Jeffrey & Jackie, October 16 2006

Jeffrey & Jackie today

Not Good.
I dunno. My impression of Jackie over the past few years is that she has grown increasingly paranoid, but she never makes clear to me why I should be any more worried than I was before watching the diavlog. This one was no different.

The biggest question for me after this diavlog is this: Jackie insists this was the Obama Administration's "first foreign policy blunder." Jeffrey more or less seemed to agree. When asked what Obama should have done different, Jeffrey hemmed and hawed. Jackie had absolutely nothing to say to back up her assertion.

Now, maybe I missed something in this diavlog, or maybe it's a gap in my understanding that I bring as a member of the listening audience, but I don't see why this is a "blunder." Sure, we would like North Korea not to be messing around with nuclear weapons, and we would like better information about their goals, motivations, etc., and sure, it's true that other areas have been more talked about by this Administration when discussing foreign policy problems. But still, how was it a blunder? What should have been done differently, how is what happened just another example of us not really having any clue about the North Koreans for decades now, and more to the point, what could have been done differently?

I see from Markos's comments that there is something about the US not living up to some earlier-established arrangement. If so, is that the sum and substance of the blunder? And whether or not it is, why am I learning about it from a commenter, and not from the diavloggers?

I used to enjoy listening to these two, and Jackie in particular, but I have felt over the past year or so that I don't get nearly as much out of their/her diavlogs as I used to. So much of what is discussed reminds me of the Cold War days, when you'd hear analysts going on at length about what the positioning of Soviet officials on the parade stand signified.

Final point: the idea that Jackie would think the supposed North Korean Twitter account was not something to be highly, highly skeptical of only confirmed my feeling that lately, she's spending most of her time looking for things to be scared of, and not information that provides the best understanding.

Quote:
On the plus side, Jeffrey's tie is stupendous.
Disagree. I used to see a bow tie and think "Paul Simon." Now I think "George Will and worse, Tucker Carlson." I can only hope the reason for Jeffrey's neckwear was that he lost a bet.
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:49 AM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I dunno. My impression of Jackie over the past few years...
For me the worrying change is more in Jeffrey's take. Jackie still seems fairly confident that NoKo won't proliferate. In 2006, Jeffrey was quick to agree and advised keeping a cool head. Today, he's much less sanguine.

When it comes to nuke issues, the combined expertise of Jackie and Jeffrey is, in my mind, the single best place to go for real, non-hysterical intel. Any decline in their net confidence scares me bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Disagree. I used to see a bow tie and think "Paul Simon." Now I think "George Will and worse, Tucker Carlson." I can only hope the reason for Jeffrey's neckwear was that he lost a bet.
You can't think that way. The bowtie is a heroic, history-defying element of menswear, virtually the only sign of overt dandyism a modern man can still wear in public. If you let it become the exclusive domain of one political cadre or another, the terrorists win. It's not a coincidence that men's neckwear has been forbidden in Iran since the revolution; a man who owns no bowties might as well just have a closet full of burkas. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT BRENDAN ?!?!!?
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Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 06-02-2009 at 08:52 AM..
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2009, 04:07 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Joel, I agree. Have some popcorn:-)

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  #8  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
I dunno. My impression of Jackie over the past few years is that she has grown increasingly paranoid, but she never makes clear to me why I should be any more worried than I was before watching the diavlog. This one was no different.
I agree about the paranoic tendencies. Worse, as these two talked, you could actually see how infectious such paranoia is. They started to reinforce each other's worst fears -- a lesson in the psychology of self-fulfilling prophecies.

I also was disturbed by the Red Line talk. Whenever I hear the phrase "regime change," I start seeing the ghost of Dick Cheney rattling his saber (Wait! He's not dead yet?) and I hear the not-so-distant rumbling of Shock and Awe. Time to save the world from a madman with WMDs? Again?

Let me take out my Evil Maniac scorecard. So we've got four sets of Madmen with nukes now. There's reliable old Axis of Evilite Ahmadinejad. There's Kim Jong Il and his famous pompadour. There's a yet-to-be-caricatured Crazy Taliban in a Turban now in control of Pakistan's arsenal, and there's the Loose Nuke Brigade, Al Qaeda sleeper cells who've acquired their mini-nukes from All of the Above.

Sigh. What's the policeman of the world to do?

Nukes are a very very serious problem. One little mistake and it could be the most serious problem we'll ever face. But demonizing certain nuclear players while giving others a pass (the US itself, India, Israel) is a policy built on stupidity and tribal loyalties. Can't and won't work.

Obama has made his great speech on nuclear weapons. We'll see if the talk is backed up by action in support of world peace.
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Last edited by Wonderment; 06-02-2009 at 03:07 PM..
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:25 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
I agree about the paranoic tendencies. Worse, as these two talked, you could actually see how infectious such paranoia is. They started to reinforce each other's worst fears -- a lesson in the psychology of self-fulfilling prophecies.

I also was disturbed by the Red Line talk. Whenever I hear the phrase "regime change," I start seeing the ghost of Dick Cheney rattling his saber (Wait! He's not dead yet?) and I hear the not-so-distant rumbling of Shock and Awe. Time to save the world from a madman with WMDs? Again?

Let me take out my Evil Maniac scorecard. So we've got four sets of Madmen with nukes now. There's reliable old Axis of Evilite Ahmadinejad. There's Kim Jong Il and his famous pompadour. There's a yet-to-be-caricatured Crazy Taliban in a Turban now in control of Pakistan's arsenal, and there's the Loose Nuke Brigade, Al Qaeda sleeper cells who've acquired their mini-nukes from All of the Above.

Sigh. What's the policeman of the world to do?

Nukes are a very very serious problem. One little mistake and it could be the most serious problem we'll ever face. But demonizing certain nuclear players while giving others a pass (the US itself, India, Israel) is a policy built on stupidity and tribal loyalties. Can't and won't work.

Obama has made his great speech on nuclear weapons. We'll see if the talk is backed up by action in support of world peace.
I dunno, Wonderment. I think Kim Jong Il with nukes is a lot scarier even than Binyamin Netanyahu with nukes. The Iranian regime's beginnings with a hostage-taking and continued history of murderous fatwa issuances don't make me so happy either. I don't think your other examples really make the point for you, either - allies of the Taliban and random anonymous grudge-holders? Please.

Given that nukes are already in the world - I don't think that a standard that holds certain actors to be far more stringent standard tan others is exactly irrational.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2009, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

jackie, i love you! can you do one on the "other" nuke markets? like syria, etc......the ones that don't get much press but may be interested in joining the club.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2009, 11:59 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default N. K. and Iran

Let me put on my paranoid conspiracy persona for a second and speculate. Iran, according to NSA, not developing nuclear warhead but is working big time on missile technology. N.K. working on missile technology and perfecting nuclear warhead. Iranians observing N.K. missile testing. Iran has no need to actively develop nuclear warhead they have outsourced it to N.K.. How big a leap is it to to get to this conclusion? I would say it is the only logical conclusion.
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2009, 01:47 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

To Jacqueline's question of what the Obama administration should have done with North Korea:
The other night on Charlie Rose ( I believe it was ), there was a discussion of North Korea in which some apparent expert said that in our last agreement with North Korea we promised to give them a certain quantity of some technical material. And we gave them only two-thirds of the amount we promised them. And that was supposedly part of the reason for their recent nuke and missile tests.
From that discussion, I got the clear impression that we failed to completely fulfill the promises we made in that last agreement.
And I was sitting there listening to that thinking: President Obama must be aware of this. If he wasn't, then I would have liked for that "expert" to have got the word to him. If Obama knew this fact, it seems to me he should have fulfilled the last agreement to the letter.
Sorry I am not naming that expert. I may go to Charlie Rose's web site to track this thing down.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2009, 02:13 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

I guess it wasn't on Charlie Rose. I just checked his web site. But I swear I just recently saw a discussion of North Korea within the past five days or so and there was some gray-haired expert who was offering reasons why North Korea feels we have not complied fully with things we agreed to do for them in our most recent agreement with them. The North Koreans are very difficult to understand, but the guy I saw, who was part of a discussion among a few experts, seemed to believe we are not doing a good enough job of recognizing our role in the miscommunication. This guy had some specific examples of things we can know, but somehow neglect. Bush Jr. was, of course, a master of neglect. But I would think Obama would conscientiously comply with all of our agreements.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2009, 02:46 AM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

I FOUND IT. This is a link to the discussion about North Korea:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...ef=videosearch

It was on Fareed Zakaria GPS on CNN. His guest, Selig Harrison, said that under the Clinton administration we promised to get the Japanese to build 2 light water reactors for the North Koreans and to supply them with 600,000 tons of energy aid. And since that agreement, we DID NOT get the reactors built and we gave them only 400,000 tons of energy aid. And therefore the North Koreans feel that we conned them.
Now, to my mind, this seems like something of a no-brainer - that we should KEEP OUR END OF this sort of agreement - especially when we're trying to have a coherent relationship with a regime that we accuse of being irrational.
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  #15  
Old 06-02-2009, 07:27 AM
mmacklem mmacklem is offline
 
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Default Dingalink highlights

Surprisingly, for a discussion of North Korean nuclear tests, there were quite a few to choose from. These two were my favourites:

Most dramatic change of topics ever

Biggest understatement of all time

Oops, I meant _this_ is the biggest understatement of all time
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  #16  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:30 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Both SK and NK say they want reunification. I've always thought we should just call their bluff: the US leaves SK and hands it over SK to NK. Suddenly NK's interests would change. They'd have something worth losing.

Sure, it sounds crazy, but you think of a better idea!
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  #17  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:46 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
Both SK and NK say they want reunification. I've always thought we should just call their bluff: the US leaves SK and hands it over SK to NK. Suddenly NK's interests would change. They'd have something worth losing.

Sure, it sounds crazy, but you think of a better idea!
I think any idea that doesn't require the assumption that Kim Jong Il will see his interests harmonized with the needs of millions of other people would qualify. The lives of people in the North would be marginally improved, I'm sure - in the South peoples lives would be wrecked. I don't think the benefits would be even on the same order of magnitude as the costs.
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  #18  
Old 06-03-2009, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

How long should it be until Korea is re-unified? When will it not be a pain in the ass for South Korea?
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:25 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
How long should it be until Korea is re-unified? When will it not be a pain in the ass for South Korea?
First things first: something needs to be done to get rid of the genocidal regime that currently imprisons NK. The suffering there is unimaginable. I'm at an absolute loss as far as what policy is going to efficate this, however. That being said, I also get really queasy when I think about my country trading with/and granting legitimacy to a ruler who is responsibly for the wanton (not wonton) murder of millions.

Reunification can be a long, far-off goal: in the meantime, the concern of empathetic people everywhere should be the eventual liberation (if not by Bushian means) of the people of NK.

Last edited by nikkibong; 06-03-2009 at 03:29 PM.. Reason: said 'absolutely' absolutely far too many times
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2009, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

I'm with you. I'd love to see Obama put out a message saying all North Koreans can move to America if they want and just see what happens (won't happen, not really sensible, bad politics, etc...).

The problem is the nuclear problem, which means that issue comes before the "North Korea is an abomination" issue. So until that is resolved, the North Korean situation is hopeless unless if just implodes and the country is forced to open up.

I also don't care if South Korea is not ready. Tough bul gogi South Korea.
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  #21  
Old 06-03-2009, 08:16 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
First things first: something needs to be done to get rid of the genocidal regime that currently imprisons NK. The suffering there is unimaginable. I'm at an absolute loss as far as what policy is going to efficate this, however. That being said, I also get really queasy when I think about my country trading with/and granting legitimacy to a ruler who is responsibly for the wanton (not wonton) murder of millions.

Reunification can be a long, far-off goal: in the meantime, the concern of empathetic people everywhere should be the eventual liberation (if not by Bushian means) of the people of NK.
Well, yeah, but how? What are the options? (Dude's been in power forever. "granting legitimacy" is hardly a factor anymore.)

I can't figure out what the soft landing scenario for NK could be. Seoul is just over the border. NK could destroy it with plain old artillery. NK is run by a religious cult that's already starved 3 million people. They're capable of anything. They'll use their own citizens (and SK) as hostages It's as if David Koresh had nukes. Would it be so bad if you could cut a deal with the NK cadres and gave them a new branch of government in the unified Korea where they get all the hookers and coke they want, but didn't interfere with the actual governing?
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  #22  
Old 06-03-2009, 08:43 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

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Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
... Would it be so bad if you could cut a deal with the NK cadres and gave them a new branch of government in the unified Korea where they get all the hookers and coke they want, but didn't interfere with the actual governing?
Heh. Want a Nobel Prize? Make that happen.
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2009, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

How would a unified Korea be democratic if the North Korean leadership still had power? South Korea wins out and controls all of Korea, or there will remain to Koreas. North Korea is anathema to South Korea, nothing about it's government can be accepted by the South Korea. It also belittles South Koreans to have them kowtow to the North.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2009, 01:36 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

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Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
Well, yeah, but how? What are the options? (Dude's been in power forever. "granting legitimacy" is hardly a factor anymore.)

I can't figure out what the soft landing scenario for NK could be. Seoul is just over the border. NK could destroy it with plain old artillery. NK is run by a religious cult that's already starved 3 million people. They're capable of anything. They'll use their own citizens (and SK) as hostages It's as if David Koresh had nukes. Would it be so bad if you could cut a deal with the NK cadres and gave them a new branch of government in the unified Korea where they get all the hookers and coke they want, but didn't interfere with the actual governing?
No trade. Freeze bank accounts. (I cannot believe Dubya unfroze them - appalling.) No food aid. (It's siphoned off by the government - it actually exacerbates the suffering of North Koreans.) Pressure China to halt aid/trade - threaten them with sanctions. Ban imports from NK. (Some western companies have slave plantations - whoops, I mean factories there.)

Stop treating Kim Jong Il like a comic figure. (I'm looking at you, trey parker and matt stone.)

Allow NK refugees to settle in the US.

Radio Free Korea - broadcast it into the North.

Raise awareness in the west. We need celebrity spokespeople! (Like Tibet etc.) I'm not being faceitious.

Anything but the status quo. This is the greatest (and most ignored) humanitarian tragedy in the world.

Last edited by nikkibong; 06-05-2009 at 01:37 PM.. Reason: added
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  #25  
Old 06-05-2009, 01:57 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
No trade. Freeze bank accounts. (I cannot believe Dubya unfroze them - appalling.) No food aid. (It's siphoned off by the government - it actually exacerbates the suffering of North Koreans.) Pressure China to halt aid/trade - threaten them with sanctions. Ban imports from NK. (Some western companies have slave plantations - whoops, I mean factories there.)
If you put the squeeze on them like that then they threaten to blow up Seoul. Then what do you do? If this was easy it'd have been done already.
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2009, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
No trade. Freeze bank accounts. (I cannot believe Dubya unfroze them - appalling.) No food aid. (It's siphoned off by the government - it actually exacerbates the suffering of North Koreans.) Pressure China to halt aid/trade - threaten them with sanctions. Ban imports from NK. (Some western companies have slave plantations - whoops, I mean factories there.)
When you are in China you will find there aren't "slave plantations", but people being paid to make a living. It's humble by American standards, but they are behind us economically and socially.

Also, none of the things you mentioned work or haven't worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Stop treating Kim Jong Il like a comic figure. (I'm looking at you, trey parker and matt stone.)
This is your #5 actually. It raises awareness and its got celebrities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Allow NK refugees to settle in the US.
I'm with you on this. I'm sure we do allow some of the handful of refugees to settle in the U.S. More's fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Radio Free Korea - broadcast it into the North.
This exists, just not in name. North Korea is less free than say the GDR or Hungary was in 1989.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Raise awareness in the west. We need celebrity spokespeople! (Like Tibet etc.) I'm not being faceitious.
Your #5... A problem during the Bush administration was that a lot of the celebrity language directed at Bush wasn't much different than what was coming out of North Korea towards Bush. Parker and Stone made fun of them for it... FAG, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Anything but the status quo. This is the greatest (and most ignored) humanitarian tragedy in the world.
I'm with you, but the status quo won't be changing too much... unless North Korea actually steps over the line and we have to go to war. It will be interesting to see what happens when Kim Jong Il dies though. Don't know what this 26 old son is like.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2009, 05:03 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
Both SK and NK say they want reunification. I've always thought we should just call their bluff: the US leaves SK and hands it over SK to NK. Suddenly NK's interests would change. They'd have something worth losing.

Sure, it sounds crazy, but you think of a better idea!
Sure, you think it sounds crazy, but as far as crazy solutions to the North Korea problem goes, you can't even carry the jockstrap of the deep thinkers at Pajamas Media.
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:36 PM
Tibbar Tibbar is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

The way to solve this problem is to make North Korea China's problem. If one could get the Chinese to close their border with North Korea, then it would all be over. The Chinese seem to be paranoid about the Swine flu. Perhaps if North Korea had an outbreak........
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:45 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

Shorter Tibbar:

Quote:
What's so bad, really, about biological warfare?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbar View Post
The way to solve this problem is to make North Korea China's problem. If one could get the Chinese to close their border with North Korea, then it would all be over. The Chinese seem to be paranoid about the Swine flu. Perhaps if North Korea had an outbreak........
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2009, 06:04 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

People in the US worry about a million Mexicans crossing the border. Imagine 24 million Mexicans streaming across the border except they're starving, completely indoctrinated, and almost entirely ignorant of what's happened in the last half century. The symbolic appeal of one Korea is dwarfed by the nightmare of having every border city turn into a huge slum or enforcing border control on people who've already been trapped in that country for their whole lives
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  #31  
Old 06-04-2009, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Worldwise: North Korea Nuclear Test (Jeffrey Lewis & Jacqueline Shire)

The border is closed I think. People sneek out of North Korea, but they aren't leaving the countries in droves. China and South Korea don't actually want North Korean refugees coming to them by the thousands. China, if they catch people, send them right back to North Korea.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2009, 05:26 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Functional Illiterates

Oooo, look! A diavlog blaming Obama for something! There can only be one reaction from the resident petty hate machine:

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Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
Neat, huh?

Pass the lube.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2009, 12:11 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: A new Japan-America security arrangement

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Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
The dynamics are complicated. William Ayers, the President's 'TOP SECRET' undergraduate career, Tony Rezko, and the Reverand Jeremiah Wright were not photo-shopped out of the current President's profile in the Japanese press.
Japan's press actually is more than just a single monthly magazine.
Quote:
What's the big deal? The big deal is that Mr. Ozawa wants no part of America's efforts to stabilize Afghanistan and Iraq. So when Mr. Ozawa looked like he might beat Mr. Aso, it looked very much like the US would very publicly lose another ally. Mr. Ozawa's resignation extended not just Mr. Abe's political career, but ensured that Japan's support for US policies in Afghanistan and Iraq did not change too dramatically.
That article (quoting Ozawa) specifically repudiates your claim that Ozawa wants no part in Afghanistan. He hinted that he might want to move the 200 Japanese airmen in Kuwait who are helping with Iraq. This is not quite the debilitating blow you seem to think.

Quote:
Lest anyone fear that the election of Mr. Hatoyama and Mr. Ozawa is a move away from war towards peace just because Mr. Ozawa wants no part of Iraq and Afghanistan, think again. Mr. Ozawa is as right-wing as a politician can publicly be in Japan and calls for an un-coupling of the US-Japan security arrangement, and a 'review' of all existing policies which is code for Article 9. Mr. Ozawa has warned in the past that Japan could rapidly produce hundreds of nuclear warheads and would never be defeated militarily.

Japan is keenly interested in an issue Americans appear to wish to ignore. The man who wanted the job of cleaning up after George Bush clearly doesn't envision playing an active part in dealing with Japan's security concerns. Which opens the door for Japan's nationalists, like Mr. Ozawa.
Your first few paragraphs gave the impression that you knew nothing about Japan and were selectively reading your articles and these two confirm it. Calling the SDP right-wing and nationalist is absurd, as is this claim that it's been growing in popularity as a result of the last election. The SDP has been growing in popularity for years, and its official platform is for complete national disarmament and Ozawa specifically talks about the power of love and peace.


Finally, a broader point. Even if you believe in all the absurd right wing fantasies about ACORN and Rezko and secret mass Negro vote fraud, you have to acknowledge to some extent that Obama is good at politics. The idea that you could, after reading a handful of articles about Japan, spot an upcoming political embarrassment better than Obama is pretty implausible.
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2009, 02:01 PM
Stapler Malone Stapler Malone is offline
 
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Default Re: A new Japan-America security arrangement

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Originally Posted by pampl View Post
...
kidneyPWND.
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  #35  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:36 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: A new Japan-America security arrangement

kidneystones:

I appreciate your frustration about the lack of competent area and Korea analysts. I've given up hope on the subject. Andrei Lankov would have been a good fit for Lewis. The lack of discussion of IAEA and S-x_party Talks inside baseball is also telling. This site should rename itself Atlanticist Hack 'Heads!

I'll second this, too: Props to Goldberg and Lee for doing the heavy lifting.
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