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  #1  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:12 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Performed Intelligence

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  #2  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:44 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

You are both right, the pronunciation is Pahkistahn. At least so says my Pakistani friend.

Last edited by uncle ebeneezer; 10-10-2008 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:49 PM
Sactownxsv Sactownxsv is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Glenn Loury.

For the most part, you're the most intelligent person on this site.
Regardless of how you vote, people need to realize these politicians are in no way, unintelligent. To characterize any of them, and this extends to George W. Bush, as such is an injustice.

I don't know how many times I've read on African-American sites that "McCain was the republican I would once have voted for", and to end they close with "That man now- is vapor"

People are overlooking their own prejudice and how its formed their opinion.
People have overlooked how much they value common traits they hold with the person they vote for. It's no surprise 9 out of 10 African-Americans are voting for Obama, and it isn't prejudice to do so. But as Glenn said, you don't have to demonize the other side to make your side the victor.
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:52 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: John McWhorter Gettin' Some....

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/150...3:36&out=13:42
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:19 PM
Arkie_in_CT Arkie_in_CT is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

I think Prof. Loury needn't worry too much that Sen. Obama, if elected president, would be an immoderate regulator. My sense is that Mr. Obama has a healthy skepticism towards excess dogmatism, be it free-market fundamentalism or interventionist statism. I find quite pleasing this tendency on his part - we will need a president who is willing to regulate where needful, but who will do so in no more aggressive a way than is called for.

Where to draw the line in such cases, as in so many matters of public policy, is a matter of judgment. I am confident in Barack Obama's in these economic balance of power issues, as elsewhere, and I commend such confidence to Glenn Loury.
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:59 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Glenn, give it a rest. We know you can't fully embrace Obama. You watched the debate and yet you are stretching credulity to defend McCain. His inability to hold a three part question in his mind, without asking for a repeat, without having to commit them to paper and then balk at a reply by blurring the three items that he couldn't recall - are exactly John's point.
I don't care if it's age, feeblemindedness or peter principle over-reaching. McCain ain't got it man. Don't worry, your rep isn't tarnished by your mental block. I've been watching your contortions for months... I still respect your intellect. But, blindspots just like prejudice are sometimes difficult to shed.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:27 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Well said Graz. It's getting downright painful to watch Glenn bend over backwards to defend McCain and concurrently to criticize Obama. In an alternate universe, i would love to see whether Glenn would be so finely focused on criticizing the Dem candidate if her name was Hillary. I'm still waiting for him to say anything substantive about the policies of John McCain. He has said some things about the race that McCain has run, but he has yet to take McCain to task for any of the number of policies that McCain holds that don't exactly jive with the progressive/liberal outlook.

As far as regulation goes, I also think Glenn is missing a crucial part of the dynamic. McCain (and the GOP) routinely make statements that ALL problems in the economy are the result of the government. Their contentions are usually sweeping. All regulation is bad. McCain has made this one of his biggest selling points. Not "I'm against needless regulations", but "There should be NO regulation." So when a situation like the bailout comes up where there are many factors, do we really want a guy who thinks that the simple answer is for the government to have no role? As an economist, does Glenn really think that the free market will just miraculously make CEO's act ethically and responsibly? Because that is the meme that modern conservatism has been pushing for decades and one that is shown false by situations like the S&L scandal and the current situation (regardless of whether regulation may not be the complete remedy.)

I don't have a degree in economics and it is not my area of expertise, so I don't have the answer. But I know what is NOT the answer, and it would be trusting in the goodwill of entrepreneurs wholly and blindly. And that is the message that is the very pillar of the GOP, and John McCain so it is a fair thing for Obama to criticize at this juncture.

Last edited by uncle ebeneezer; 10-10-2008 at 08:43 PM..
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:39 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
It's getting downright painful to watch Glenn bend over backwards to defend McCain and concurrently to criticize Obama..
Maybe the Dr. can heal himself:
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/150...2:06&out=02:26
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:48 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

I was almost tempted to praise McCain for showing surprising class in response to his angry crowds:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/...n_angry_crowds

And then I thought "wait a minute, where are these people getting this misinformation?" Oh yeah, directly from McCain's campaign.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2008, 10:59 AM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Well said Graz. It's getting downright painful to watch Glenn bend over backwards to defend McCain and concurrently to criticize Obama. In an alternate universe, i would love to see whether Glenn would be so finely focused on criticizing the Dem candidate if her name was Hillary. I'm still waiting for him to say anything substantive about the policies of John McCain. He has said some things about the race that McCain has run, but he has yet to take McCain to task for any of the number of policies that McCain holds that don't exactly jive with the progressive/liberal outlook.
I wonder if Glenn believes that "That One" ( or That Thing ) wrote his own books or if Ayers helped him write it:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...DFjMDE4YzRjMjg

Is Glenn going to be walking back from his assaults on Justice Thomas or some other conservatives ??

I think Glenn has to let go of the primary ( Geez he lost EastWest for Gob's sake ) . If HRC were debating we would be seeing a much more combative Glenn. What is Hillary's overarching world view ( as opposed to Bill's ); threatening Iran with nuclear annihilation for pure politcal theater. Was her speech to AIPAC vastly different from Obama ?? What do you think McCain would do about the demographics of the prison population ( Clap I would think ) Would John be more kinder to McCain given the deft "Devil's Advocate" positions they play. I do believe Glenn will pull the lever for Obama but man I can't tell who seems to like "That Thing" less, Glenn or McCain. I can't wait for the RNC to start using Glenn's talking points in their ads :-):

"Who is barack HUSSEIN obama, even this black guy/leftie college professor doesn't know"

What is Glenn's opinion of Palin again ?? Is she an effective spokesperson for all that is good and wise in the market.

Last edited by thouartgob; 10-13-2008 at 11:00 AM.. Reason: unSEEmly
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:05 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
As far as regulation goes, I also think Glenn is missing a crucial part of the dynamic. McCain (and the GOP) routinely make statements that ALL problems in the economy are the result of the government. Their contentions are usually sweeping. All regulation is bad. McCain has made this one of his biggest selling points. Not "I'm against needless regulations", but "There should be NO regulation."
Indeed. Until he found it expedient to completely change his tune.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 10-23-2008 at 09:08 AM..
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:22 PM
Eastwest Eastwest is offline
 
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Default Lost It With Glenn on This One

Geez, Glenn, what are you smoking?

I'm a former HRC supporter never particularly impressed by Obama, always felt you were reasonable in your disinclination to join in Obamamania cheerleading, and always felt you had a little more gravitas and wisdom of experience as measured against Mr. McWhorter.

But now you've really gone too far. McCain's mental and characterological deficits have become so evident, you'd have to be blind not to see them. I could see your wanting to remain neutral on the guy, but to actually praise him up and down for all his qualities is just absurd. The quality of your judgment is fading.

It's at this point that I turn in my "Glenn Loury Fan Club" badge.

Add in the just plain dumb advocacy of unbridled deregulation when a failure to exert even the most minimal sort of regulation on greed gone wild has ruined not only our own economy, but also the economy of the world, and then going farther yet, even to the point of blaming the dishonesty in home loan apps on populist political-economic policy -- that's just a lie and it's a just plain nutty analysis.

EW

Last edited by Eastwest; 10-10-2008 at 08:28 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:38 PM
Unit Unit is offline
 
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Default Re: Lost It With Glenn on This One

Wow! Where can I get one of those "Fan of Glenn" badges?

I'm not a McCain defender, but your reasoning on the economy, Glenn, is on the mark and beautifully expressed as usual. A lot of people seem to act like those early visitors to the Soviet union that pretended to not see what was going on. Come on folks: our markets are "over"-regulated, our politicians' job is to sell regulation that favors the highest bidder. Don't you see that? The current mess was not only "created" by our rules ad regulations, but politicians of both parties have gotten rich off of it. And now you want to give them even more power? It's utterly absurd.

Glenn, keep it up. You're a breath of fresh air.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:54 AM
JIM3CH JIM3CH is offline
 
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Default Re: Lost It With Glenn on This One

I think Glenn Loury made very good points when he was talking about the economic crisis. The last five minutes of this diavlog gives something to ponder. So far the economic crisis is playing out according to Hoyle. We are currently in the ‘rush to find those to blame’ phase, to be followed shortly by the ‘punish the innocent phase‘.

However, while Glenn Loury praises the high rollers for bringing us the last twenty years of prosperity, I tend to believe that conspicuous consumption, in which we all took part every time we tanked up for less than $1.00/gal, is at the root of this collapse. True enough, consumption is a necessary attribute if one wants to live in a vibrant consumer society. But decadent conspicuous consumption, or to give it a fair label --gluttony, is a precursor to demise. Reverent J. Wright was quite correct, in this context, about America’s chickens coming home to roost.

This crisis is about greed gone wild, that‘s true enough; but not greed gone wild on Wall Street. To find the root cause of this world wide mess I would suggest that we Americans need go no further than the short walk to our bathroom mirror.

There is a way out of this mess though, but it involves harder work for lesser pay for many generations to come.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2008, 09:44 AM
tarajane tarajane is offline
 
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Default Glenn Loury Fan Club badge -- I want one!

Again it's a pleasure to listen to these two. As ever, Glenn expresses thoughts and feelings I share -- more eloquently than I could.
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:12 PM
Jyminee Jyminee is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Glenn, I respect you so much and have enjoyed your appearances here a great deal. But when accuse John of making unfair ad hominem attacks against McCain, you're way off the mark.

John is basically saying "McCain doesn't have what it takes to be president." That kind of statement is completely fair to make about any candidate for public office. But look at the disgusting ad hominen attacks the McCain campaign is launching against Obama. Every day they are basically calling him a radical America-hater, one step away from being a terrorist.

I haven't heard you say anything against those kinds of attacks.
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:42 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyminee View Post
Glenn, I respect you so much and have enjoyed your appearances here a great deal. But when accuse John of making unfair ad hominem attacks against McCain, you're way off the mark.

John is basically saying "McCain doesn't have what it takes to be president." That kind of statement is completely fair to make about any candidate for public office. But look at the disgusting ad hominen attacks the McCain campaign is launching against Obama. Every day they are basically calling him a radical America-hater, one step away from being a terrorist.

I haven't heard you say anything against those kinds of attacks.
But it is ad hominem, by definition. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. The real question is, "is it unfair?"
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:10 AM
Xelgaex Xelgaex is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
But it is ad hominem, by definition. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. The real question is, "is it unfair?"
"Ad hominem" is tricky in politics because there is a way to go too far in attacking the person. Certain attacks on character or on family cross the line. However, you can't separate the person from the argument entirely in politics, and it is the person who is ultimately elected.

An example that Glenn and John might appreciate is the Clinton/Obama race. There were few differences in policy (policy being the political equivalent of the logical argument) and the campaign were almost entirely about personal qualification and personality. For instance the whole experience question is precisely an "argument to the person." In the original context of logic, the experience of the person making the argument has no bearing on whether the argument is sound.

Basically what I'm saying is that there is a way to be too personal, but that it is a person running for office, not an idea.

In the context of the diavlog, McCain performing badly in the debate doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a bad president, but it certainly doesn't do anything to recommend him. Also on the pragmatic side, it doesn't help him to win.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:06 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

"Ad Hominem" is a term which refers specifically to the fallacy of attempting to discredit an idea by attacking the person stating it.

For example, to say "George W. Bush is an idiot," is not ad hominem.

To say, "the Iraq War was a huge mistake, because George W. Bush, who led us into it, is an idiot," is ad hominem. You may feel that both points are true (that the war was a mistake, and that Bush is an idiot), but the suggestion of Bush's idiocy does not do anything to invalidate the case for the war.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:15 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
"Ad Hominem" is a term which refers specifically to the fallacy of attempting to discredit an idea by attacking the person stating it.

For example, to say "George W. Bush is an idiot," is not ad hominem.

To say, "the Iraq War was a huge mistake, because George W. Bush, who led us into it, is an idiot," is ad hominem. You may feel that both points are true (that the war was a mistake, and that Bush is an idiot), but the suggestion of Bush's idiocy does not do anything to invalidate the case for the war.
You're conflating a generic ad hominem argument with the ad hominem fallacy.
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:18 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelgaex View Post
"Ad hominem" is tricky in politics because there is a way to go too far in attacking the person. Certain attacks on character or on family cross the line. However, you can't separate the person from the argument entirely in politics, and it is the person who is ultimately elected.

An example that Glenn and John might appreciate is the Clinton/Obama race. There were few differences in policy (policy being the political equivalent of the logical argument) and the campaign were almost entirely about personal qualification and personality. For instance the whole experience question is precisely an "argument to the person." In the original context of logic, the experience of the person making the argument has no bearing on whether the argument is sound.

Basically what I'm saying is that there is a way to be too personal, but that it is a person running for office, not an idea.

In the context of the diavlog, McCain performing badly in the debate doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a bad president, but it certainly doesn't do anything to recommend him. Also on the pragmatic side, it doesn't help him to win.
What you're saying is generally true. I was making a mch more limited argument about language. There's nothing inherently wrong with an ad hominem argument, it would just need to be applied appropriately (which distinguishes it from just about nothing.)
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:36 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
What you're saying is generally true. I was making a mch more limited argument about language. There's nothing inherently wrong with an ad hominem argument, it would just need to be applied appropriately (which distinguishes it from just about nothing.)
It's so good to keep learning about English language!

If I understood well:

- ad hominem argument refers to the attributes/ character (most likely negative ones) of a person rather than to the particular arguments that person is making.

- in this sense, it is common occurrence that in political discourse there will be ad hominem references and attacks since the person and his/her character can have an impact on the ability to govern.

- ad hominem fallacy refers to refuting an argument not because the argument itself is wrong, but because of some characteristic of the person who presents the argument.

Interesting... did I get it right? No ad hominem please.
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:46 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
It's so good to keep learning about English language!

If I understood well:

- ad hominem argument refers to the attributes/ character (most likely negative ones) of a person rather than to the particular arguments that person is making.

- in this sense, it is common occurrence that in political discourse there will be ad hominem references and attacks since the person and his/her character can have an impact on the ability to govern.

- ad hominem fallacy refers to refuting an argument not because the argument itself is wrong, but because of some characteristic of the person who presents the argument.

Interesting... did I get it right? No ad hominem please.
I would just note that the positive or negative aspect of a character attribute isn't relevant. To say Audrey Hepburn was beautiful is certainly ad hominem. To say that Sarah Palin is wrong about William Ayers because she was a beauty queen is an example of ad hominem fallacy.

Hey I didn't refer to you in my argument once! (Oops!)

(And of course we are discussing Latin!)
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  #24  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:55 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I would just note that the positive or negative aspect of a character attribute isn't relevant. To say Audrey Hepburn was beautiful is certainly ad hominem. To say that Sarah Palin is wrong about William Ayers because she was a beauty queen is an example of ad hominem fallacy.

Hey I didn't refer to you in my argument once! (Oops!)
I didn't exclude positive aspects. I said 'most likely'. But, I'll accept the additional clarification...

But, Jeff, I was fishing for compliments. 'Ego supplies' is the technical term.
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  #25  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:43 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Moreover, I think John McWhorter's point is a valid one. I, for one, never had any issue with McCain's intelligence, I just disagreed with his policies. But throughout this campaign, through all his speeches and debates, I've been completely underwhelmed by his critical thinking. In short, i just don't think the guy does have what it. Imagine if Obama didn't know the difference between the Sunni and Shia...

For all the fun Glenn has pointing out that Obama has not impressed him with anything profound, I have seen absolutely nothing of substance in McCain's message. Even if you can somehow reconcile the numerous flip flops he's had on just about every major issue, and put it into a coherent narative, it's still been nothing but GOP red meat talking points and a prolific use of the word Maverick. If Glenn wants to point to Obama as an empty suit, it's only fair to turn that same standard to McCain, who so far looks more like an empty sock.
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  #26  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:10 AM
Lyle
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

He hasn't criticized Republicans about talking about William Ayers, because Barack Obama did befriend him and work with him. Nothing the Republicans are saying is untrue, and they havne't stepped over the line with it.

Calling Barack Obama a Muslim now is over the line, I think... but neither McCain or Palin has ever said any such thing.
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  #27  
Old 10-11-2008, 11:33 AM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Glenn, for all his self-professed even handedness, really came off badly this time around because he tried to paint John as some kind of angry partisan when John was only saying the obvious.

On every question about the economy, McCain circles back to 'pork spending'. That's the 'index card thinking' that John refers to at a couple of points, and it's a completely fair critique that I know Glenn, as an economist, has to agree with on the facts alone. Obviously, pork bills and our current economic situation have literally nothing to do with each other. Every time McCain tries to shoe horn his morally upstanding voting record into this realm, he is dissembling and creating confusion in a public that already doesn't know much about how our credit markets work.

Either McCain is intellectually incapable of defending this brand of free market ideology or he cynically believes that the public isn't able to understand the argument. Neither speaks well of him.
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2008, 11:51 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
Glenn, for all his self-professed even handedness, really came off badly this time around because he tried to paint John as some kind of angry partisan when John was only saying the obvious.


Either McCain is intellectually incapable of defending this brand of free market ideology or he cynically believes that the public isn't able to understand the argument. Neither speaks well of him.
You bring up good points which apply, not only to McCain's statements about the economy, but to many other topics he addresses. I think that his statements are often so absurd, that any criticism which is proportional to that absurdity, will sound like he is being ridiculed. And that effect is compounded by the obvious indignation which results from hearing a presidential candidate addressing such essential issues so thoughtlessly and stereotypically.
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  #29  
Old 10-11-2008, 07:35 PM
grits-n-gravy grits-n-gravy is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
Glenn, for all his self-professed even handedness, really came off badly this time around because he tried to paint John as some kind of angry partisan when John was only saying the obvious.
I disagree. I saw Glenn pushing back against John's misplaced air of intellectual superiority. John likes to attribute it to the sound of his voice but I think it's more than that. And quite frankly, I hope Glenn pushes back much harder the next time John pontificates about the IQ of this or that person or engages in armchair psycho-analysis of this or that person.
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  #30  
Old 10-12-2008, 10:08 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
Glenn, for all his self-professed even handedness, really came off badly this time around because he tried to paint John as some kind of angry partisan when John was only saying the obvious.
Feel free to critique this past week's collective msm blitz being pushed on the American people that everyone supporting McCain is a mean, hateful racist. Anyone criticizing the Obama record, the Obama plan, the Obama mistake for what they are is deemed 'hateful' and dismissed. When the hate was downright dishonest and venomnous towards Palin? That's when it was 'stating the obvious'.

The saddest thing about the market meltdown isn't that it's happening but that we probably won't learn anything from it. We will be handing the checkbook and the ledger over to the fools who did the most to create it.

And the funniest thing lately are all the 'is capitalism dead?' and 'the free-market needs a re-think' columns flooding the news services. No one (except maybe Glenn and some conservatives) seems to be saying that it was socialism 101 practiced as the CRA and sub-prime loans that started this gigantic ponzi that the latecomers (usually referred to as 'suckers' in a pyramid scheme) are now asking the ponzi rulemakers to bail them out of. The rulemakers smile benvolently, give them a quota of voter registrations to reach, and pat their heads.
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  #31  
Old 10-12-2008, 02:59 PM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Feel free to critique this past week's collective msm blitz being pushed on the American people that everyone supporting McCain is a mean, hateful racist. Anyone criticizing the Obama record, the Obama plan, the Obama mistake for what they are is deemed 'hateful' and dismissed. When the hate was downright dishonest and venomnous towards Palin? That's when it was 'stating the obvious'.

The saddest thing about the market meltdown isn't that it's happening but that we probably won't learn anything from it. We will be handing the checkbook and the ledger over to the fools who did the most to create it.

And the funniest thing lately are all the 'is capitalism dead?' and 'the free-market needs a re-think' columns flooding the news services. No one (except maybe Glenn and some conservatives) seems to be saying that it was socialism 101 practiced as the CRA and sub-prime loans that started this gigantic ponzi that the latecomers (usually referred to as 'suckers' in a pyramid scheme) are now asking the ponzi rulemakers to bail them out of. The rulemakers smile benvolently, give them a quota of voter registrations to reach, and pat their heads.
Did you really mean to reply to my post? I don't see anything that refutes or supports anything I wrote -- just a bunch of unrelated complaints about the MSM.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:19 PM
jimM47 jimM47 is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Glen Loury was on fire in this one. It is really enjoyable to see him put on his economist hat and say things that need saying.
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  #33  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:35 PM
cousincozen cousincozen is offline
 
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Default The most disturbing thing yet...

A disembodied tail.

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/150...5:30&out=35:45
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:26 PM
cragger cragger is offline
 
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Default Re: Deja vu all over again

I hope that once the election is over this pairing of b-heads can move on to other topics. Mr. McWhorter praises Obama and Mr. Loury pushes back despite apparantly feeling that he is the better, or at least less worse, alternative. Their style is refreshingly honest and thoughtful, but it is starting to sound a bit like a long-married couple stuck in a pattern of repeating the same conversation.
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  #35  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:57 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Unless you consistently refer to Japan as "Nihon", and Rome as "Roma", then it is nothing more than a ridiculous affectation to say "PAHKistan". In ENGLISH, the country is pronounced "PACKistan."
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:07 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

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Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Unless you consistently refer to Japan as "Nihon", and Rome as "Roma", then it is nothing more than a ridiculous affectation to say "PAHKistan". In ENGLISH, the country is pronounced "PACKistan."
In English it is also pronounced as "PAHKistan." I'm guessing "PACKistan" is more often used, but asserting it's one or the other is false. "PARus" (v. "parEE") is nearly ubiquitous, but that's a different case altogether.

This is just the language version of "arugula." i.e., a silly attack on Obama attempting to put a wedge between him and "just folks."
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Last edited by AemJeff; 10-11-2008 at 01:08 AM.. Reason: doh! eg <> ie
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:13 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Sorry, but you are flat-out wrong. In US English, it's PACK-istan, not PAHK-istan.

Please go to either Merriam-Webster's web site (m-w.com) or to dictionary.com, and play the audio file to hear for yourself.

Then check your facts before trying to attack people as raging partisans next time.

P.S. I'm not now, and never have been, a McCain supporter.
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  #38  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:22 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Sorry, but you are flat-out wrong. In US English, it's PACK-istan, not PAHK-istan.

Please go to either Merriam-Webster's web site (m-w.com) or to dictionary.com, and play the audio file to hear for yourself.

Then check your facts before trying to attack people as raging partisans next time.

P.S. I'm not now, and never have been, a McCain supporter.
First: I said nothing about you whatsoever. Secondly, use your ears - the Merriam-Webster isn't, even the OED isn't the last word in pronunciation, or even usage. Both pronunciations are used by people daily.
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  #39  
Old 10-11-2008, 11:39 AM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Posts: 305
Default Re: Performed Intelligence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Sorry, but you are flat-out wrong. In US English, it's PACK-istan, not PAHK-istan.

Please go to either Merriam-Webster's web site (m-w.com) or to dictionary.com, and play the audio file to hear for yourself.

Then check your facts before trying to attack people as raging partisans next time.

P.S. I'm not now, and never have been, a McCain supporter.
Last I checked, there is no standardized pronunciation of the English language. There will be a lot of people in this country with regional accents that are going to be sad to hear that M-W.com has become the final word on how we make sounds with our mouths.

People are allowed to call their breakfast pastry a croy-sont, but pronouncing the word as it would be in its language of origin is never, ever wrong in English.
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  #40  
Old 10-12-2008, 10:14 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Performed Intelligence

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Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
Last I checked, there is no standardized pronunciation of the English language.
You're right. I once read a detailed article on the Merriam-Webster web site about this, but after a couple minutes looking for it just now, I can't find it. But the jist is exactly as you said: There is no "right" way to pronounce words. At least assuming you can trust the people who wrote the dictionary.

LOL: I once had a debate with a libertarian, and he was repeatedly misusing the word "altruistic." When I pointed out his error, we looked it up in the dictionary. The dictionary backed me up, and the libertarian explained that the authors of the dictionary have a liberal bias.
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