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  #1  
Old 09-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Can You Spare Some Change?

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  #2  
Old 09-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Xelgaex Xelgaex is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Maybe he's just an optimist, but Matt's MO seems to be "admit no weakness." Even when he's saying that he expects to be upset by some things that a McCain administration would do, he makes it sound like he thinks that is a good thing.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2008, 10:47 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default how to defeat McCain/Palin

Obama has to force Palin to state her views. She is likely for social security privatization, cutting spending to balance the budget, cuts in aid to academia, wants to allow the oil companies to retain their earnings to encourage them to reinvest in energy projects, full speed ahead on missile defense, stand firm against the russians, hopefully against the legalization of illegal immigrants, against raising taxes .... all things I am for. But likely not the views of the majority of the electorate.

as it is, Obama's constant charge against McCain that he will be a continuation of Bush policies gives McCain an excuse not to state he agrees with Bush and his running mate.

McCain should be banging away on Obama's judgement. Selecting Biden was a very dumb decision. By repeating over and over that Obama cant even select a decent VP, you get two shots in for every swing. One against Biden, the other Obama.

-Steve
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  #4  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:10 PM
Ray Ray is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Quote:
Obama has to force Palin to state her views.
Her what?
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  #5  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:15 PM
BeachFrontView BeachFrontView is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

You're right there is something unsettling about her as a presidential candidate. WE are at war no? I dont know who scares me more being in charge of the military McCain or Palin.

She is an affirmative action candidate simple as that.
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  #6  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:33 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default The danger with Biden

Emily and Matt explain.

Last edited by Simon Willard; 09-10-2008 at 07:32 AM..
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  #7  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:46 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: how to defeat McCain/Palin

I think Biden was a good choice. Sarah is today's star, but it's only a matter of time until she says something that makes her look goofy. Biden has been through this before, and I would think he will be alert to the pitfalls.

The vice-presidential debate looms unusually large this year.
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  #8  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:36 AM
David Mershon David Mershon is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

This was a really disappointing discussion. If I want talking points I'll consult the Obama and McCain campaigns directly. The whole conversation about how McCain would have a hard time pushing anything but conservative orthodoxy only makes sense in a scenario where the Republicans somehow gain a congressional majority. Does anyone see this as even remotely plausible? If the Democrats retain their control of the legislature, McCain logically would have to pursue a more moderate agenda in his policy and his judicial picks. This kind of lapse in logic seems to only happen when people are discussing the merits of candidates based on political posturing, not arguments on the merits of actual or proposed policies
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:01 AM
ed fielding ed fielding is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Oh wow. What a show, man.
That man is splenetic dyspepsia on wheels.
Overblown handle, just like the prose.
Kidney stones are an all-consuming pain. You vomit, you crawl, you writhe.
This kid is a kick in the gut, max.
Too bad about the stain.

Matt is another bundle of weeds altogether. His son-of-Rove beamishness should hasten his ascent. Seeing everything as theatrics is clever and bright, same as it always was, and suits the Repubbly claque who pull the strings, so I suspect he serves as the perfect representative of our Repubbly future.

His overflowing delight, plainer previously, now muted by time, in Palin’s theatrical perfection strikes a blow for surface.
What’s stunning in Matt’s manner of mind is that surface has no counterpoise in substance; substance, in fact, seems to hold no interest whatsoever. No room at the inn for the divinity of Truth. A mere sneer for those bound up in reality-based thinking. Though Matt doesn’t sneer. Matt is a nice guy. He’s enjoying his job. He gets to see a lot of theatre. He loves theatre. (Maybe even burning the candle at both ends, looks tired.)

He got off some good lines. Not appearing to mean to. The reference to the theatrics of unveiling Palin, not giving many interviews (how long can they get away with that?) in order to keep “that new-car smell”.
The revolving door at McCain HQ bringing the benefit of fresh minds.

All upbeat, all the time; but boy, he sure loves surface. The Country be damned. It’s all about putting on a great show.
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2008, 06:30 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Credentials?

When I hear reporters argue that their job is still valid, all I can think is: sure, you have creds. Bob Woodward can go nearly anywhere for an interview, even to talk to President Bush. I can't even get into the White House.

How many college grads here have had an interview assignment? I interviewed the college president. I got high marks. But, my professor had to get me the appointment, and only because it was a class assignment. I could plan an interview now, take a train to Seoul, head to the Blue House, and no one would ever let me near the ROK president. But, a "pro" reporter could.

And, why? Because George W. Bush trusts Bob Woodward? Woodward has a resume? Reporters like Bazelon have a job that requires the same amount of commitment and training as any. but she comes here and disses people who will never have her access. She's trying to convince me: I'm one of you, too. But she's got creds I would love to have. What does she do with them, though? She trades talking points and covers an election like a boxing match. She just watches the spectacle without using her creds to ask the advisers and the staffers about the money and the contributors, who talks to the candidate and his managers, etc. Instead, we get twice spun trivialities about the end of the process, when the candidate walks on stage in full makeup on the TV the corporate donors have paid to operate. Maybe a few reporters get that access, and in a few years we all might see a book, or a feature series. The rest of the press corps is deadweight: fast-checkers, runners, etc. And, bloggers still do better!
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  #11  
Old 09-10-2008, 06:41 AM
artoad artoad is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

[QUOTE=mvantony I was surprised to see Obama go that far. He seems to be cracking a bit.
I didn't construe his remarks as a personal attack, but a rather clever use of the lipstick language to impugn the contemptible theft of the change theme by McCain/Palin. This is a very inchoate time in the campaign. I think the Democrats should keep up the fire until they get their bearings in this very fluid situation. The Republicans for the moment think they've discovered instant Evita in a box. Things should shake out in a week and the path forward should be clearer. Obama can't come off as a patsy while the Republicans sneer at his community organizing service. The Democrats have to find a way to needle these two. Here's my mixed movie metaphor. Try to get the American people to have the vision of McCain/Palin I have. They're Captain Queeg from the Caine Mutiny and Thelma/Louise driving America over the proverbial cliff.
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:40 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvantony View Post
I was surprised to see Obama go that far. He seems to be cracking a bit.
You were surprised to see Obama use an extremely common expression while never even mentioning Palin? Have you seen the actual video of the remarks? You're swallowing McCain campaign talking points whole. McCain himself -- along with virtually every other American -- has used the expression "lipstick on a pig." Obama was not talking about Palin and made NO REFERENCE to her in those remarks.

It's stunning how easily manipulated people are, to be falling for this latest McCain campaign lie.
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:42 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
Connect the dots.

I won't even use the term 'man' to describe this trash-talk. This is someone who describes his female opponent as a 'piece of paper called change'...'wrapped around a piece of old fish'...that 'stinks'. At this point if Obama called Palin 'garbage' it would be a step-up.
You truly are an inveterate liar. Obama did no such thing.

Please, post up a quote where Obama "describe[d] his female opponent" in the manner you suggest.

The fact is you can't do it, because Obama didn't say any such thing.

You're amazingly dishonest.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
'Stinks like a piece of old fish'. I was brought up to never make comments about fish and odor when women are being discussed
Really? You were? What a strange upbringing you had.

Oh, and do you think you could do us all a favor and produce evidence that Obama made "comments about fish and odor when women [were] being discussed?" If you review the video, I think you (yes, even you) will conclude that, in fact, Palin was NOT being discussed.

Again, you're just lying.


.

Last edited by TwinSwords; 09-10-2008 at 09:48 AM..
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:52 AM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Obama was not talking about Palin and made NO REFERENCE to her in those remarks.

It's stunning how easily manipulated people are, to be falling for this latest McCain campaign lie.
It supports what Rush is saying, over and over, that Obama is not able to speak off the cuff, without someone preparing his remarks. His "above my paygrade" remark was inappropriate and so was this allusion to Sarah's lipstick joke. Obama makes a lot of mistakes. Selecting Biden, who was advocating the partitioning of Iraq, who is an elitist liberal ( "my IQ is higher than yours" ), who has never been able to get democrats outside of his home state to vote for hime, was a huge mistake.

-Steve
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:56 AM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: how to defeat McCain/Palin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
I think Biden was a good choice.
Biden has never gotten anywhere in national democrat primary elections. He was wrong about wanting to partition Iraq. He is old looking. He reinforces the snobbishness of Obama. A terrible choice.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:47 AM
seyoyo seyoyo is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Conservatives can sometimes be silly. Obama is not campaigning on experience and doesn't need to knock off Palin's experience. He only needs to knock off McCain's judgement on Palin.

Also McCain can no longer claim experience as a reason not to vote Obama.

It's straight-out all negative for McCain.

It's hard to see how Palin helps McCain really. In 2-3 weeks she'll be stale news and McCain will be left with the impossible task of convincing anyone whose any two brain cells contact that he's suddenly change.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:50 AM
Thus Spoke Elvis Thus Spoke Elvis is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

To any sane observer who has seen the statement in its context, it's clear that Obama wasn't calling Palin a pig. But my God, what a stupid thing to say! There are a ton of former Hillary voters who are hyper-sensitive because of things said in the primary campaign (the "you're likeable enough" comment, for example) who are likely to interpret his comments in the worst possible light. Obama's hold on these voters is extremely tenuous, and he needs them to win.

Stop talking about Palin. Go after McCain.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:54 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thus Spoke Elvis View Post
To any sane observer who has seen the statement in its context, it's clear that Obama wasn't calling Palin a pig. But my God, what a stupid thing to say! There are a ton of former Hillary voters who are hyper-sensitive because of things said in the primary campaign (the "you're likeable enough" comment, for example) who are likely to interpret his comments in the worst possible light. Obama's hold on these voters is extremely tenuous, and he needs them to win.

Stop talking about Palin. Go after McCain.
Elvis has clearly described reality.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
It's stunning how easily manipulated people are, to be falling for this latest McCain campaign lie.
That's exactly right. They can say whatever they want to create an impression. People buy it. If it's a lie or a distortion of reality, once it's out there, denouncing it is useless. They keep at it as if it had become part of reality. They make it their truth. A very successful manipulation. And the media plays along...

Whether Obama meant his comment to be directed to Palin or not, it's to me, irrelevant. Republicans have been trashing Obama and everybody else they can, whenever they have an opportunity. So what? Let Obama throw a comment or two. If he uses humor, even better. I want to see him showing that he is not afraid of these bullies or the pitbull, for that matter.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:41 AM
Larry Bird Larry Bird is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

I will not watch Matt Lewis do anything. He is the definition of the word "Tool". Get someone who isnt a living breathing gop talking point.
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:54 AM
miocid miocid is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Is Matt ever admit that he's wrong?
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:02 PM
Thus Spoke Elvis Thus Spoke Elvis is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Two things:

1.) Have you ever made what you thought was an innocuous comment, only to have it greeted with laughter by people who thought you were making a clever/ribald allusion to something else ? If so, you should have some sympathy for Obama's predicament. I think it's clear that Obama wasn't referring to Palin with the lipstick reference at the rally, but the video suggests that some in the audience interpreted it that way. This doesn't help Obama at all, because critics will point to this as evidence that Obama meant to insult Palin, and now not only does Obama have to explain what he meant, but also why some of his supporters think he meant something different (are they stupid? mean-spirited?).

2.) I've read some people claim that it would have been a good thing if Obama actually intended to insult Palin, because it shows that he's willing to "fight back" against Republican smears. I'm sorry, but calling a female opponent a "pig" is not a way to win votes. Not only would it be incredibly crude, but there are plenty of weight-conscious women who wouldn't appreciate a guy using that phrase to describe a lady.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:22 PM
BrendanM BrendanM is offline
 
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Default McCain has hit upon a cowardly, but possibly effective strategy.

He taunts Obama, lies about him, lies about himself and his running mate, lies about his positions, and when Obama flings back a pedestrian aphorism pointing this out, he hides behind Governor Palin's skirts and claims it to be an outrage. HIS behavior is low and sexist. He's a cad AND a poltroon.
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:38 PM
BrendanM BrendanM is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

And anyway, McCain's ad attacking Obama over sex-ed suggests he's a sort of molester by proxy. That ad is several orders of magnitude greater in terms of outrageous sleaze than the faux outrage McCain's 'bots are trying to gin up.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:40 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: McCain has hit upon a cowardly, but possibly effective strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanM View Post
He taunts Obama, lies about him, lies about himself and his running mate, lies about his positions, and when Obama flings back a pedestrian aphorism pointing this out, he hides behind Governor Palin's skirts and claims it to be an outrage. HIS behavior is low and sexist. He's a cad AND a poltroon.
"Politics ain't beanbag." The effective rule is "whatever works." Complaing about the other guy's tactics has limited usefulness, except in extraordinary circumstances. Obama has been losing the past few rounds.

The Obama campaign needs to start ignoring Palin and reinforcing its own strengths again. She'll stand or fall on her own merits - magnifying her importance by continuing even to seem to be responding to her is foolish. And regardless of what he meant, the "lipstick on a pig" reference was too obvious by far - rookie mistake.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:49 PM
benjy benjy is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Obama would only need to pick off a few moderate Republicans to get things done--not very hard, Matt. (Making specious arguments for your guy, and changing the topic when you're called out on it--tisk, tisk. We expect more on BhTV )
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:05 PM
Thus Spoke Elvis Thus Spoke Elvis is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvantony View Post
But do you think his remarks were off the cuff, or prepared beforehand?
If you watch the whole segment, I think it's clear that Obama's just riffing off-the-cuff, and used a cliche that he's used in the past without realizing the connotations it carried following Palin's RNC speech. Notice also his reaction to the audience's applause to the line...it doesn't seem like he expected it to get the reaction it did.

Now it's possible that this was all pre-planned, and Obama was simply acting like this was an off-the-cuff, unintentional slip-up. But I have seen no evidence that Obama is that skilled an actor.
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:10 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Yeah, first off if anyone reads the quote, Obama was talking about McCain's policy. He wasn't even calling McCain a pig, but using an analogy for McCain's POLICY (the same analogy McCain used several times!) To make the leap from McCain's policy, to Sarah Palin's person is just flat-out ridiculous and shows exactly what the GOP is trying to do (have a justification for being offended at every turn.) It's just sad.

But the saddest part is that so many right-leaning voters who constantly bitch about the horrible restrictions of our world of "Political Correctness" and how ridiculous our society has become with over-reacting to sexist jokes and off-color remarks etc., are now practicing the very same victim mentality that they so ceaselessly rail against.
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:40 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed fielding View Post
[...]
Very well said, Ed. Exactly what I was thinking, on all counts.
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  #30  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:43 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachFrontView View Post
You're right there is something unsettling about her as a presidential candidate. WE are at war no? I dont know who scares me more being in charge of the military McCain or Palin.

She is an affirmative action candidate simple as that.
I agree. What compunds it is the Republicans traditionally have been against quotas, race norming, lowering standards, what have you, while the opposition party has generally favored affirmative action.

John
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  #31  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:45 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Can You Spare Some Change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Bird View Post
I will not watch Matt Lewis do anything. He is the definition of the word "Tool". Get someone who isnt a living breathing gop talking point.
That's going to be my policy from now on, too. I gave this one as long as I could, but Matt Lewis is just ridiculous. BH.tv might as well have booked Rick Davis or Tucker Bounds for all the honest analysis he offered. As others have already noted, this diavlog was no different from the crap you can get on cable all day long.

A real waste of time, and even worse, a waste of a visit from Emily Bazelon.
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  #32  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:33 PM
basman basman is offline
 
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Default Camille Paglia on Sarah Palin

Someone mentioned realclearpolitics, a tremendous site. Well, from there today is this Slate essay by Camille Paglia on Sarah Palin. It's a fantastic read as literature by an Obama supporter who is a self described dissident feminist, entirely heterodox in her thinking, and who writes with such verve and insight and freshness that she reminds me of Norman Mailer in his journalist as novelist incarnation. You cannot be a sanctimonious tut tutter about Palin after reading this, I'd contend.

Paglia: http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/...lin/print.html

This diavlog, as someone said, was "Dueling Talking Points".

Someone, I think, should do an analysis of the entire phenomenon of talking points.
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:00 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

No - it supports the notion that the right-wing message machine is in full effect spinning everything Obama says or does into a fantasy that supports their candidate - but largely has little to no relationship to reality.
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  #34  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:03 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Obama gaffe was bad, but not THAT bad

Obama cannot use language that can be construed as sexist. I'm sure this is the last time he will utter the word "lipstick" or "stinky fish" in this campaign.

It was a dumb mistake and DOES, in my view, reflect sexist stereotypes. Imagine if McCain had used a metaphor about a "nice tan" or said something like "some guys are smart enough for the basketball court, but they're not ready for the White House."

Having said that, poorly chosen metaphors don't have a thing to do with the governance of the country. Discussing pigs and fish for two days does exactly what McCain wants: distract voters from his horrific record and worse policies for the country.

Obama is a feminist candidate. He is strong on ever issue that matters to women. McCain isn't. He's an anti-choice reactionary, for starters, and he sucks on healthcare and education. That's what's important to keep on the front burner.

McCain, with a complicit media, is preventing Americans from discussing the issues. Bring on the debates. We should have more debate and less bullshit.
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Last edited by Wonderment; 09-10-2008 at 10:24 PM..
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  #35  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:37 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by artoad View Post
I didn't construe his remarks as a personal attack, but a rather clever use of the lipstick language to impugn the contemptible theft of the change theme by McCain/Palin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment
Obama cannot use language that can be construed as sexist. I'm sure this is the last time he will utter the word "lipstick" or "stinky fish" in this campaign.

It was a dumb mistake and DOES, in my view, reflect sexist stereotypes. Imagine if McCain had used a metaphor about a "nice tan" or said something like "some guys are smart enough for the basketball court, but they're not ready for the White House."
I agree that there was no way Obama could co-opt the 'lipstick language' without being aware that 99% of the people in attendance would read it as 'Palin'. Funny that everyone who is saying it was an innocent remark fails to mention that after his 'pig' and 'stinky fish' blasts, the crowd started chanting 'No more pitbull!' [source US News & World Report and NBC News]


It's even worse for the Obama campaign that they tried and failed to pull the race card on Palin's comparison of being a mayor to being a community organizer, when in fact the Obama campaign fired the first shot by calling her a 'former mayor' of a small town instead of the sitting governor of the largest state in the union. Trying to turn this into some veiled allusion to race was very weak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basman
Someone mentioned realclearpolitics, a tremendous site. Well, from there today is this Slate essay by Camille Paglia on Sarah Palin.
RCP is a fantastic site and Camille Paglia's article is excellent (read it this AM). She would be an excellent BhTV guest (although her speaking style makes Martin Scorsese sound as slow as Joe Lieberman).

Here are a couple more great articles by folks who see how the msm and other liberals are shooting themselves in the feet by underestimating and ridiculing Palin (not to mention spreading lies about):

The Rantings Of A PTA Mom by Sandra Tsing Loh, a writer and democrat in The New York Times

"And yes, I know I appear to be ranting on like a pit bull without lipstick, which brings me to the final nail in the coffin in this sorry election year. As a Democrat I am horrified that Sarah Palin is the one who snagged the deeply profound — and absolutely ignored by professional smart people — emotional real estate of “P.T.A. mother.” I too am, in fact, not just “my kids’ mom” but their Title I Los Angeles public school P.T.A. secretary. This unheard female howl is, for better or worse, what Ms. Palin has set out to tap into; it is real, and I am sick that we’ve let the Republicans charge this ground.
Sarah Palin’s children went to what looks like a humble little public school: Iditarod Elementary on Wasilla Fishhook Road. The school’s score on www.greatschools.net is a 4. That’s a lot of street cred, for a gun-totin’, snow-mobilin’ creationist-lovin’ lady."



and Sarah Palin is not such a small-town girl after all by James Bennett in the UK Daily Telegraph.


"In short, far from being a small-town mayor concerned with little more than traffic signs, she has been a major player in state politics for a decade, one who formulated an ambitious agenda and deftly implemented it against great odds.

Her sudden elevation to the vice-presidential slot on the Republican ticket shocked no one more than her enemies in Alaska, who have broken out into a cold sweat at the thought of Palin in Washington, guiding the Justice Department's anti-corruption teams through the labyrinths of Alaska's old-boy network."
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  #36  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:43 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama: "Lipstick"... "Pig"... "Stinks like an old fish"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thus Spoke Elvis View Post
Two things:

1.) Have you ever made what you thought was an innocuous comment, only to have it greeted with laughter by people who thought you were making a clever/ribald allusion to something else ? If so, you should have some sympathy for Obama's predicament. I think it's clear that Obama wasn't referring to Palin with the lipstick reference at the rally, but the video suggests that some in the audience interpreted it that way. This doesn't help Obama at all, because critics will point to this as evidence that Obama meant to insult Palin, and now not only does Obama have to explain what he meant, but also why some of his supporters think he meant something different (are they stupid? mean-spirited?).

2.) I've read some people claim that it would have been a good thing if Obama actually intended to insult Palin, because it shows that he's willing to "fight back" against Republican smears. I'm sorry, but calling a female opponent a "pig" is not a way to win votes. Not only would it be incredibly crude, but there are plenty of weight-conscious women who wouldn't appreciate a guy using that phrase to describe a lady.

I agree in principle with your two statements. My point is that, since the Republicans' intention seems to be to object to every real or imagined criticism of Palin, perhaps, it's better to stop clarifying because it forces the Dems to be constantly in the defensive. Do the Reps choose to believe that they've been insulted? Fine, tell them once and move on. It's a constant distraction. It's political manipulation.
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  #37  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:22 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Scheiber obviously hasn't met dishonest nutjobs like kidneystones and mvantony

Noam Scheiber:

The Best Thing About All the Lipstick Absurdity

What I love about the breathtakingly dishonest McCain ad about Obama's lipstick remark is that it so completely inverts the traditional elites-versus-Middle-America dynamic. If you didn't know anything about who said what, you'd probably assume it was some good ole' boy who alluded to lipstick on a pig and some liberal women's group that took offense. Instead it's basically the opposite.

Which makes me wonder if the McCain campaign isn't being too clever by half here. Yes, there may be one or two deranged Hillary dead-enders out there willing to believe Obama called Sarah Palin a pig. But I think there are many, many more "ordinary Americans" who've heard the expression several thousand times and have no idea what the fuss is about.

On the other hand, because it's so hard to imagine the GOP playing the gender card more brazenly than a feminist literary theorist, maybe a big chunk of vaguely tuned-in Americans will assume it's the Democrats who are on a hair-trigger alert for political incorrectness. Sounds implausible, I know. But I wouldn't have thought we'd get this far with the lipstick controversy and I was clearly wrong about that...

--Noam Scheiber

(Source)
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  #38  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:38 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama Plagiarist Busted!: Piggies Come Home To Roost

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Originally Posted by kidneystones View Post
Talk about 'innocently' jamming a finger in your own eye. Not only is nobody buying Obama's 'innocent' Palin-Pig comparison, seems like Obama ripped-off his earlier attack on Palin-McCain word for word directly from a Tom Toles cartoon.

Ooops!!!

Watch the whining begin in real earnest.
Obama gave credit to Toles for that statement. It's not plagiarism when you credit the source.

Last edited by TwinSwords; 09-10-2008 at 10:44 PM..
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  #39  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:42 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama Plagiarist Busted!: Piggies Come Home To Roost

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
God, you are stupid, aren't you? Or is it dishonest?

Oh, I know. You're both: You are both stupid, and dishonest. They go together very well, and suit you just fine.

Hey, asshole, I have news for you: Obama gave credit to Toles for that statement! It's not plagiarism when you credit the source. Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and pay attention to the world for a change!

As it stands, you are just making yourself look foolish.
I think ks just barely rises to the level of a troll these days. It seems hardly worth even acknowledging his posts. Even David Thompson is more interesting.
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:47 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama Plagiarist Busted!: Piggies Come Home To Roost

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I think ks just barely rises to the level of a troll these days. It seems hardly worth even acknowledging his posts. Even David Thompson is more interesting.
I completely agree. The only thing that worries me is that some of the less informed posters on this forum, the kind who have repeatedly demonstrated a tenuous (at best) grasp of the facts might believe Kidneystones' lies.
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