Go Back   Bloggingheads Community > Diavlog comments
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Notices

Diavlog comments Post comments about particular diavlogs here.
(Users cannot create new threads.)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-03-2009, 09:37 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
BhTV staff
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,936
Default A Humbler Stimulus?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:20 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newbridge, NJ
Posts: 2,673
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Must ... not ... be ... sarcastic.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:22 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by claymisher View Post
Must ... not ... be ... sarcastic.
Don't watch, don't snark.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:15 PM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,077
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Megan,

The obvious libertarian solution is more deregulation - bring back Phil Gramm - and tax cuts. After all, we can trust Bank of America and AIG, (i.e. the "free market") to make us all richer.

Also, we also need open borders and more out-sourcing and H-1V's because more competition for labor means more jobs and higher pay for American workers. And don't forget the one-sided trade deals - because giving the Chinese more control over the dollar is a good thing.

I'm shocked the Republicans haven't offered this vote getting solution.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:23 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 940
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

rocean - that's mean. Asking libertarians to put forward a libertarian agenda isn't fair. Until our universities produce more sophomores who've read Atlas Shrugged, the world isn't ready.

Last edited by brucds; 02-04-2009 at 09:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:35 PM
student123 student123 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Megan seemed knowledgable, and she argued her points well. There were a couple of times where she should have allowed Brian more opportunity to speak. She often insisted on finishing her statements, but the statements were a couple of minutes long, which wasn't so fair.

Unfortunately for Brian, in the instances where he did speak, he revealed a fundamental lack of knowledge about basic economic theory, and even the "Keynesian School" of economics that he supports. He seems like a really intelligent guy, but I don't think he should blogginghead about economics until he does a lot more homework. I know he gave a disclaimer that he got his ideas from reading economists he admires, but he really hasn't retained enough substantive information. I don't mean to be so harsh- Brian seems like a nice and smart guy, and I hope that he will really wow us if he does an econ bloggingheads in a year.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:38 PM
Titstorm Titstorm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Moon
Posts: 141
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

libertarian philosophy got us in this mess! now they think we're interested in hearing how they'll fix it? got news for you - your opinion is not wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:11 PM
fredsbreakfast fredsbreakfast is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titstorm View Post
libertarian philosophy got us in this mess! now they think we're interested in hearing how they'll fix it? got news for you - your opinion is not wanted.
Where do you get that idea. How is it libertarian that (stupid risky) home loans are backed by the fed government??? How is it libertarian that democrat representatives in congress stay in office by keeping that stupid program alive and thriving 'till it explodes? Do you have any idea what a libertarian is, or are you just ........ what are you doing? What exactly are you doing? Why post something that dumb? I really want to know. How are you helping? How can you possibly care a whit about public policy if you're so blissfully and utterly misinformed and ignorant?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:26 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cali, Small-Govt Liberal
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
How is it libertarian that democrat representatives in congress stay in office by keeping that stupid program alive and thriving 'till it explodes? Do you have any idea what a libertarian is, or are you just ........ what are you doing? What exactly are you doing? Why post something that dumb? I really want to know. How are you helping? How can you possibly care a whit about public policy if you're so blissfully and utterly misinformed and ignorant?
Don't get worked up. He's just your friendly neighborhood troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
EXACTLY. And so, why is Megan, a 'libertarian', for this Keynesian socialist nannystate spending spree??? It's the opposite of libertarianism. Megan's just a thoughtful and creative left-liberal. That's rare. But she's a big spender. Big government is the answer for her. I'm sorry to be realizing that finally.
The real kicker is that a lot of people hate Megan on this board, and yet they like the other libertarians like Will, Brink and Kerry. Hmmmm..

Last edited by sugarkang; 02-06-2009 at 07:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:16 AM
Lemon Sorbet Lemon Sorbet is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

This was good vlog. Putting aside that Libertarian philosophies offend me deeply, Megan did a great job outlining her concerns and though Brian obviously does not have expertise in economics, I thought he asked the questions and made comments that most of us non-experts would have asked of someone who is ďagainstĒ the stimulus.

As for my own non-expert opinion, observation of whatís going on locally in my state in response to the stimulus package, plus hearing what Megan has to say, equals total ambivalence and disappointment. Believe me, I want this to work. I am hurting, my familyís hurting, my friends are hurting. I am also in a field that is very dependent on people having disposable income so things are not good. But, I am just very weary of spending this much money and putting this much risk on a plan that for me evokes a lot discomfort as opposed to confidence, mostly for three reasons.

1) This is just parroting what weíve all heard already, but I have to say it here because I see it with my own eyes. Though many agree that our national infrastructure is badly frailing at the edges, there is no way that most of that can be planned and addressed in time to be shovel ready. This is exemplified by many local projects in my area which were nixed previously (for good reasons I thought) that are now getting geared up to qualify for federal money. So yes, I strongly suspect that many projects will be wasteful. So for me the question is to what degree are the benefits really going to outweigh the conceivable massive waste?

2) I am completely and unequivocally for a universal healthcare proposal, but again, I agree with Megan. What is the COBRA thing doing in the stimulus package? Or aid to the arts, or to reproductive health, or to whatever else? All of these things are things that I support, but given the situation and dire need, Iím disappointed that a clean, straight, and to the point stimulus plan focusing directly and solely at the economic recovery has been shuttled for a politics as usual fattened up bill attached with goodies for everyone. Some might say that this is the way things work in congress and it was necessary for it to go through, but I say we are in the worst crisis most of us have known in our lifetime and a strong leader would have done a good enough job of communicating that to both the people and the congress and pushed it through. Iím very surprised and disappointed that Obama has not turned out to do that.

3) Nothing about Timothy Geithner nor Lawrence Sumners inspires confidence. Nothing.

Now here are things that Megan said that I didnít understand or agreed with:

1) She made the comment that building a bridge with concrete and steel takes it away from somewhere, so itís non-stimulative. Why would that be? Itís not like that bridge would be built in place of my house, it would be built in addition. It seems pretty simulative to me and thus faulty logic, but maybe someone can better expand on what she might have meant.

2) The analogy that you can hire someone to water the lawn and can call that employment is ridiculous. We NEED infrastructure upgrades in this country. Most of the physical bones that made U.S. what it is today were made way, way back, and we are just not geared up for the 21st century in terms of roads, utility methods, transportation, earthquake readiness infrastructure, etc., etc. All of these things are items that are vital to the future of the country, and I find it disconcerting to say the least that she would diminish the importance of it by making such a petty analogy.

3) Are we trying to look for a solution that will almost immediately jolt us back to where we were? Brian thankfully made this point, but I am under the assumption that what weíre seeking from the stimulus package is to stop the bleeding immediately and gradually get back on our feet. Though it might take three years for the concrete to be poured, even the planning stages will need a fair amount of additional employees in all sectors to get it going. And most importantly, when companies have big projects down the pipeline they layoff on the layoffs. Isnít this part of the blood staunching?

I obviously donít have any answers as Iím just an interested observer to this debate but honestly, I didnít see a viable one coming from Megan either. But I donít think this should keep her or anyone from making counter arguments.

Last edited by Lemon Sorbet; 02-04-2009 at 12:18 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:27 AM
pampl pampl is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 750
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

I thought this was one of McArdle's better appearances. I agree with Beutler that it's not really Biden's fault that he is unaware of the state of conservative economics, but ultimately I do think that Obama should be aware that the House Republicans are a joke and getting a normal sort of democratic compromise requires going above and beyond listening to a handful of pols having a nervous breakdown about their ideology. I have the impression that Obama has listened/will listen to reputable conservative economists, but I don't know how much of that impression is real and how much was my buying into an image. I'll find out soon, I guess!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:22 AM
Stapler Malone Stapler Malone is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 213
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

I really don't understand why Megan gets so much grief in this comments section. She's not being ideological, or obstructionist, or jerky in any way really. She freely admits that she's squishy and agnostic and at the end of the day pretty much for the Stimulus, but just wants there to be more rational discussion about it. After the experience this country had rushing to war in Iraq no questions asked, I think her warning of overconfidence and groupthink and lack of careful due diligence is 100% legit.

I'm not saying I agree with her that we shouldn't do anything infrastructural, I'm just saying she seems on the level to me here.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:33 AM
Lemon Sorbet Lemon Sorbet is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapler Malone View Post
I really don't understand why Megan gets so much grief in this comments section.
You know, I don't either. I can see plenty of room for disagreement or even dislike, but not to the level where rocks are being thrown everytime she steps on stage. But I will admit that there are actually some guests on BH that inspire loathing in me. I directly blame them for lives lost and inexcusable violence in the world and sometimes I just want to call them names and nothing more.

Last edited by Lemon Sorbet; 02-04-2009 at 12:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-04-2009, 01:13 AM
hurt hurt is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

[QUOTE=Stapler Malone;103056]I really don't understand why Megan gets so much grief in this comments section. She's not being ideological, or obstructionist, or jerky in any way really. She freely admits that she's squishy and agnostic and at the end of the day pretty much for the Stimulus, but just wants there to be more rational discussion about it. After the experience this country had rushing to war in Iraq no questions asked, I think her warning of overconfidence and groupthink and lack of careful due diligence is 100% legit.

Yeah, I always preemptively balk at the libertarians on Bloggingheads just because of my preconceived notions grounded in Ron Paulites and college types, but Will Wilkinson, Kerry Howley and Megan McArdle have definitely proven to be formidable minds and make me want to learn more about libertarianism.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:51 PM
direwolfc direwolfc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

I second that. For some reason she seems to get grief everywhere. I don't always agree with her, but I don't understand where its coming from.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:52 AM
laura laura is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 47
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

I think she mostly gets grief because she can be a sloppy thinker. Megan should re-read her Marcia Stigum: the government is, by definition, AAA in its own currency. The obligor on the bond is the same as on the dollar bill with which it redeemed. So no junk bond status. You can ask what the dollar might fetch in the forex market, but treasuries will not be junk.

Megan also has some rhetorical ticks which annoy a few people.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:35 AM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

A couple of points:

1. GDP during WWII doesn't make any sense because most market were not functioning and so there are just no reliable prices to compare it with normal times.

2. When government does a lot, the private sector freezes, everyone becomes really cautious, especially because people know that all this spending will have to be paid by tax-payers sooner or later.

3. Libertarian economists were not heeded by the Republicans when they were in power, why should they try to talk to them now that they don't count for anything? It's the Democrats that should be listening to the libertarian economists now, first and foremost. Here is a chance for Obama to break the mold: if the stimulus doesn't pass, the Democrats will go down in history as the fiscally conservative ones and the socially liberal ones. That would be incredible. That would also put all of the responsibility for the huge crisis that is coming square on the Bush administration. They'll be able to point to the Wall Street bail-out, the wars, etc...the trillions of stimulus spending that George W "tried" on us as the main cause of all our troubles. Instead, by spending a little trillion themselves they will become co-conspirators.

4. There are no tax cuts in the proposed stimulus bill. There are tax rebates. Smart tax-cuts change the incentives to risk and hire people.

5. Brian's partisanship was nauseating. I think BHTV should strive for a higher ground.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:55 AM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

6. The shovel-ready project run the risk of getting bogged down by law-suits brought about either for eminent domain reasons or because of environmental concerns.

7. I find strange that someone can be in favor of highway constructions and also want to cap carbon emissions at the same time.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:45 AM
bramble bramble is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 31
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

McArdle annoys me, and this conversation helped me figure out why.

She is a policy tease!

She starts out arguing for, for instance, a libertarian proposal. Then when push comes to shove, she says, "I'd actually probably support the liberals on this one." Or vice versa.

Isn't it a kind of unwritten law of polemics that you can only straddle the fence a certain number of times? McArdle has certainly exceeded that hypothetical number.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:55 PM
direwolfc direwolfc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

It's an interesting point. I sort of agree, it's not enough to be 'agnostic' over the stimulus package. Someone, somewhere, is going to have to make decisions on it, and an informed expert should, after explaining the situation, be able to 'pick a side'.

It's okay to be proven wrong later, but being better informed means you sort of have a responsibility to take a stand on an issue, even if there isn't a clear cut answer.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-04-2009, 04:21 PM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramble View Post
McArdle annoys me, and this conversation helped me figure out why.

She is a policy tease!

She starts out arguing for, for instance, a libertarian proposal. Then when push comes to shove, she says, "I'd actually probably support the liberals on this one." Or vice versa.

Isn't it a kind of unwritten law of polemics that you can only straddle the fence a certain number of times? McArdle has certainly exceeded that hypothetical number.
Your flip-flopper is my pragmatic realist.

Megan is somebody with libertarian-leaning sensibilities willing to roll with playing the cards we are dealt.

We have a proudly "unhyphenated" liberal running the White House, along with a Congress that mostly stands to his left. Nobody expects the current government to resist the urge of Keynesian spending when the so-called right-wingers who were recently purged couldn't even do it.

In such a political environment, Megan could choose to be a dogmatic Austrian-school libertarian, and there's a place for such people in the debate (you can see them showcased over on Reason.TV), but she's more interested in engaging the current reality and infuse it with a smidgen more common sense. I, for one, am glad to see it.

Last edited by Tara Davis; 02-04-2009 at 07:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-04-2009, 08:31 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
We have a proudly "unhyphenated" liberal running the White House, along with a Congress that mostly stands to his left.
Hilarious. Three months ago, he was the most librul seniter EVAR!!!1!
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-05-2009, 02:28 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Hilarious. Three months ago, he was the most librul seniter EVAR!!!1!
Okay, other than the McCain campaign itself, who ever said that?

McArdle was cheerleading for Obama since the primaries.

I was pretty much since Ron Paul got buried in New Hampshire.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-05-2009, 02:36 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Okay, other than the McCain campaign itself, who ever said that?
A large part of the MSM, especially via guests on cable yakfests, and all of Wingnuttia.

Quote:
McArdle was cheerleading for Obama since the primaries.

I was pretty much since Ron Paul got buried in New Hampshire.
I don't get your point here. Sorry if I'm being thick.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:05 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
A large part of the MSM, especially via guests on cable yakfests, and all of Wingnuttia.
Well, if you're going to watch the cable TV shouting matches, you have only yourself to blame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I don't get your point here. Sorry if I'm being thick.
My point here is that not everybody, or even most people, bought the McCain/Palin/Limbaugh/Hannity spin that Obama stood somewhere far left of Stalin.

Obama is a lefty, sure, but standing next to the current Congressional leaders, he looks like Ike.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:17 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Well, if you're going to watch the cable TV shouting matches, you have only yourself to blame.
It's not me I'm concerned about. It's people who watch them and believe them.


Quote:
My point here is that not everybody, or even most people, bought the McCain/Palin/Limbaugh/Hannity spin that Obama stood somewhere far left of Stalin.

Obama is a lefty, sure, but standing next to the current Congressional leaders, he looks like Ike.
Sure, not everybody. But "Obama most liberal" was believed by a lot of people, and in lots of cases with all the negative connotations that implied.

Dunno about Congress. I think mostly of Blue Dog Democrats these days. I also think of how quick Congressional Dems were to roll for Bush, for asinine things like motions to condemn MoveOn, and how unwilling most of them are to get out there to push Obama's agenda.

BTW, if you're measuring liberalness by how much a given member of Congress tries to attach pet spending projects to a big spending bill, we're using different definitions.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:30 PM
fredsbreakfast fredsbreakfast is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tara Davis View Post
Well, if you're going to watch the cable TV shouting matches, you have only yourself to blame.




My point here is that not everybody, or even most people, bought the McCain/Palin/Limbaugh/Hannity spin that Obama stood somewhere far left of Stalin.

Obama is a lefty, sure, but standing next to the current Congressional leaders, he looks like Ike.
PLEEEASE .... he's not gonna show his true colors. That would be suicide. He's running for re-election. That's his main occupation. He's commie .... always has been. But he's bright, and wants very much to be president. That's his deal.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:38 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
PLEEEASE .... he's not gonna show his true colors. That would be suicide. He's running for re-election. That's his main occupation. He's commie .... always has been. But he's bright, and wants very much to be president. That's his deal.
Just read something that seems applicable to the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
........ what are you doing? What exactly are you doing? Why post something that dumb? I really want to know. How are you helping? How can you possibly care a whit about public policy if you're so blissfully and utterly misinformed and ignorant?
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:56 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 750
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

If you think Obama is a "commie" then you don't have the perspective necessary to judge whether someone is left or right or libertarian and you probably shouldn't be let near pointed objects
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-06-2009, 08:03 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cali, Small-Govt Liberal
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
If you think Obama is a "commie" then you don't have the perspective necessary to judge whether someone is left or right or libertarian and you probably shouldn't be let near pointed objects
I'm pretty sure he was just kidding. The point is that he's just as progressive and/or liberal as Nancy Pelosi, but isn't showing it for the obvious reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-07-2009, 12:27 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 750
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I'm pretty sure he was just kidding. The point is that he's just as progressive and/or liberal as Nancy Pelosi, but isn't showing it for the obvious reasons.
If someone were to demand evidence that Bush wasn't secretly a fascist would you rush to defend them as quickly? I know that the demographics of this board are lopsided but mollycoddling the stupidest parts of the right isn't the solution.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:06 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cali, Small-Govt Liberal
Posts: 2,186
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
If someone were to demand evidence that Bush wasn't secretly a fascist would you rush to defend them as quickly? I know that the demographics of this board are lopsided but mollycoddling the stupidest parts of the right isn't the solution.
It's precisely because the demographics of this board are lopsided that I speak up. I know dems have felt oppressed over the last 8 years, but it scares me to think that they will have unchallenged power for decades. They're probably going to get that filibuster proof majority in 2010.

I suffered from a little Bush Derangement Syndrome before the election. But that's over. You need to be weary of who's in power, not who was in power.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-07-2009, 02:24 AM
fredsbreakfast fredsbreakfast is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Just read something that seems applicable to the above.
Obviously you don't know Obama's interests and views. Where do you get your news? From whom have you learned about his views, ideology, philosophy, tendencies? Do you have some new evidence that he's become more conservative or libertarian? Do you have some evidence to deny what I tried to convey about the guy when i use the term 'commie'? You know what I'm saying ... what i mean. You can pick on me all you want, but can you show how what I'm trying to say about left-liberal Obama is misguided generally?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-07-2009, 02:42 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
Obviously you don't know Obama's interests and views. Where do you get your news? From whom have you learned about his views, ideology, philosophy, tendencies? Do you have some new evidence that he's become more conservative or libertarian? Do you have some evidence to deny what I tried to convey about the guy when i use the term 'commie'? You know what I'm saying ... what i mean. You can pick on me all you want, but can you show how what I'm trying to say about left-liberal Obama is misguided generally?
Given that you ran in about fifteen different circles attempting to backpedal from what you said earlier, I wouldn't even bother trying. I think your protests make my point sufficiently, in any case, especially for such a ludicrous claim.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-07-2009, 03:09 AM
fredsbreakfast fredsbreakfast is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Given that you ran in about fifteen different circles attempting to backpedal from what you said earlier, I wouldn't even bother trying. I think your protests make my point sufficiently, in any case, especially for such a ludicrous claim.
oh ... come on .... that's so pathetic.. i'm not running in circles at all.

forget the fighting thing man, and your silly personal emotions and all. I can set mine aside happily ...... the truth about the argument's truth and validity is what counts. Come on ...... you don't have to do it this instant but, do you seriously mean to say you won't even try and back up your implicit claim that Obama isn't commie (statist, socialist, nannystate, capitalist-hating, america-hating, .... etc. etc.). You know I don't mean he's a Stalinist. HE'S NOT THAT THOUGHTFUL and I'm not sure he even really cares much for philosophy and political theory. He wants TO BE president ..... that's his goal, his talent, and his job. He's running for 2012, full time already.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-07-2009, 03:36 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. Saģah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredsbreakfast View Post
oh ... come on .... that's so pathetic.. i'm not running in circles at all.
With appropriate choice of coordinate system, I guess it could be said that the rest of the universe is what's going round and round, yes.

Quote:
forget the fighting thing man, and your silly personal emotions and all. I can set mine aside happily ...... the truth about the argument's truth and validity is what counts. Come on ...... you don't have to do it this instant but, do you seriously mean to say you won't even try and back up your implicit claim that ...
I want to hear some more begging first.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-04-2009, 01:33 AM
timba timba is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Default just you wait, Megan McCardle, just you wait

...you'll be sorry but your tears will come too late
your libertarian health insurer
will leave you dying and much poorer
just you wait, Megan McCardle, just you wait
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-04-2009, 01:39 AM
timba timba is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Default Re: just you wait, Megan McCardle, just you wait

and if you're too young to know that song, you're also too young to realize why extending COBRA is not "welfare", and why the health insurance companies make Osama bin Laden seem like Mother Teresa.

Wait til that bronchitis you're so blithe about makes you ineligible for health insurance.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-04-2009, 02:53 AM
x9#z6 x9#z6 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

Really, a libertarian idealogue is the best you can do to discuss the stimulus. Not cool. This topic deserves a real debate by real experts.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:06 AM
x9#z6 x9#z6 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
Default Re: A Humbler Stimulus?

I wonder if Megan was so enthusiastic a debater when W was passing his equally gynormous tax cuts.
Reply With Quote
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.