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  #1  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:30 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

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  #2  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:00 AM
KingFish KingFish is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

I'll miss my favorite Flirtingheads (outside of Bob and Mickey, of course!) when they go the way of all electrons.....
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:28 AM
David Edenden David Edenden is offline
 
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Default Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

The way that the Socialist Republic of the Great White North handles the issues below can serve as a model for the Republican Party in the US.

(Yeah ... you read it right the first time!)


(Pitch CNN ... Canada is EXCEPTIONAL!)

No "Death Tax"

Illegal Immigration - no problem (people land in Canada only to be smuggled into the US.)

Federal Department of Education (none in Canada)

Bank Regulations, Bailouts, Housing Collapse, etc ... what we did right!

Debt, Deficit and economic growth ... Canada better!

Energy ... Canada has Tar Sands and developed them, US has oil shale but did nothing ... American are wimps!

Note - Heath insurance is too complicate*d and has been done to death (pun intended) ... but you could interview or survey Canadian "Snowbirds*" in Florida to see what they say. They are generally upper middle class and have experience with both systems.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2011, 06:35 AM
Parallax Parallax is offline
 
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Default ECB is not your beleaguered friend

The fiscal austerity fetish is baffling. When ECB says (as Megan puts it): "I can help you fix this but first you have to help me help you", people should call ECB on its BS. This is not a valid policy point, it is a a central bank bowing to political pressure and undertaking a disastrous policy (most of the time the pressure is to inflate here it is to deflate). And when we say this is a political problem it is meant in the way that if ECB was independent its policy would be much more different. If ECB is truly independent why would you hear things such as:

Quote:
Many economists say aggressive purchases of the sovereign bonds of heavily indebted states by the European Central Bank are the quickest and surest path to stabilizing the crisis. On Thursday, Mario Draghi, the bank’s president, laid the groundwork for bolder intervention in markets if certain conditions were met.

To German ears those bond purchases, or anything that smacks of printing money, sound like a recipe for skyrocketing prices. German leaders, including Chancellor Angela Merkel and her former economic adviser, Jens Weidmann, now head of the German Bundesbank, have strongly discouraged any such move by the European Central Bank, stalling the rescue of the euro zone in the view of critics.
Source

ECB is not there to make sure Italians & Greeks become responsible. Like every central bank is a lender of last resort, it is there to prevent a banking crisis and print money to avoid recessions. The fiscal part should have been handled via the EU treaty and b/c it was not we get the Germans making every effort to interfere with ECB decision making just so that Merkel is not forced to go back and tell Germans that the German government screwed up some time ago.

Germans don't have a case for moral superiority, they are only better at collecting taxes compared to Greece & Italy. And better tax collection would not have prevented the crisis, so this means that Germans are more law abiding than others but a strong sense of law and order is a morally neutral attribute dependent on the content of the law. But even with the German framing of the discussion they don't have a case: the same treaty that limits deficits also caps debt to GDP ratio at 60%. Germany's number is well in the 80s while Spain's is in low 60s. Bring that up next time you see a self satisfied German talking proudly about German economic policy ...

Even if you think Germany has a morally superior version, we are past the point that moral arguments counted. The question is, will Germany destroy EU just to make a point to Greeks & Italians who did not pay their taxes or not?
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:17 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: ECB is not your beleaguered friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallax View Post
The fiscal austerity fetish is baffling....?
Indeed. It does seem to be a debilitating fetish of bankers and of European central bankers in particular. Even Jean-Claude Trichet, the former head of the ECB, became an austerity fetishist when he moved to Frankfurt from Paris, after being the fetish-free governor of the Banque de France.

I wonder if his change of heart could be related to his name? Trichet = tricher (cheat)

Quote:
But even with the German framing of the discussion they don't have a case: the same treaty that limits deficits also caps debt to GDP ratio at 60%. Germany's number is well in the 80s while Spain's is in low 60s. Bring that up next time you see a self satisfied German talking proudly about German economic policy
Yes, the Germans do tend to overlook that not altogether insignificant fact. Both Germany and France have gone well over the 60% cap. The Germans, though, think they have a historical justification for their policy of fiscal rectitude--WEIMAR and reductio ad Hitlerum. They trot this out all the time.

Quote:
Even if you think Germany has a morally superior version, we are past the point that moral arguments counted. The question is, will Germany destroy EU just to make a point to Greeks & Italians who did not pay their taxes or not?
I think they are beginning to see that their moral superiority, if it is that, is not a marketable commodity. There is going to be an announcement this week in Paris after yet another meeting between Merkel and Sarkozy. I have the impression that something new is in the works.

Last edited by Florian; 12-04-2011 at 07:52 AM..
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:50 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
The way that the Socialist Republic of the Great White North handles the issues below can serve as a model for the Republican Party in the US.

Energy ... Canada has Tar Sands and developed them, US has oil shale but did nothing ... American are wimps!.
Canada seems to be exiting their girly-man position on Kyoto as well (even our dem senators had more testosterone), avoiding almost $7 bil in shakedown payments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
Heath insurance is too complicate*d and has been done to death (pun intended) ... but you could interview or survey Canadian "Snowbirds*" in Florida to see what they say. They are generally upper middle class and have experience with both systems.
Not only the "Snowbirds", but also those who come south for superior care and/or to avoid waiting months/years/posthumously ("done to death" - pun intended) for treatment.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:12 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
Energy ... Canada has Tar Sands and developed them, US has oil shale but did nothing ... American are wimps!
Americans might be wimps but Canada's tar sands are going to usher in the total collapse of the climate of the planet.

Of course the only way to stop this is for the US to invade Alberta and put an end to it...for the children.
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-04-2011 at 11:45 AM..
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:43 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Not only the "Snowbirds", but also those who come south for superior care and/or to avoid waiting months/years/posthumously ("done to death" - pun intended) for treatment.
I grew up a couple miles from Canada, so I've known Canadians my whole life. I've worked for 18 years at a Michigan-based international corporation where we hire hundreds of Canadians. I haven't talked about health care with all of them, of course, but I have talked to a lot of them about it -- and have yet to talk to single one would trade the Canadian health care system for the disaster we have in the United States.

We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:04 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Canada seems to be exiting their girly-man position on Kyoto as well (even our dem senators had more testosterone), avoiding almost $7 bil in shakedown payments.
It's amazing how the thing has collapsed. I am thinking it is all due to the over-reach of people like Al Gore and Jim Hansen calling climate change settled science. People just don't cotton to stuff like that, for good reason.

Climategate 2.0:

Quote:
but the lesson of the Climategate saga is that scientists who become advocates, or allow themselves to become adjuncts to an advocacy campaign, damage science and policy-making alike. They end up being neither effective nor honest. One of the poignant revelations of the new emails is that some of the scientists seem to grasp this. Tommy Wils, a British climate researcher at the University of Swansea, wrote in a 2007 note to a large list of recipients: “Politicians like Al Gore are abusing the fear of global warming to get into power (while having a huge carbon footprint himself).”
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-04-2011 at 12:08 PM..
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:25 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I grew up a couple miles from Canada, so I've known Canadians my whole life. I've worked for 18 years at a Michigan-based international corporation where we hire hundreds of Canadians. I haven't talked about health care with all of them, of course, but I have talked to a lot of them about it -- and have yet to talk to single one would trade the Canadian health care system for the disaster we have in the United States.

We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
Most Americans will go to their (relatively early) graves thinking they have the best health care system in the world, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including rates of longevity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:52 PM
David Edenden David Edenden is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Not only the "Snowbirds", but also those who come south for superior care and/or to avoid waiting months/years/posthumously ("done to death" - pun intended) for treatment.
What do Snowbirds think?

I want someone (like Bloggingheads.tv) to hire a small stadium meeting in Florida for a huge town hall. Only Canadian "Snowbirds"allowed to attend with Canadian "Medicare" issued photo ID. Free Tim Hortons Coffee?

As they enter, they are given either a red or blue flag and told to sit at opposite sides of the stadium. Since they have experience with both systems it will give us an excellent sample of public opinion on a large group of upper middle class people who have experience with both systems.

Republicans can easily study the proposals of Canadian and British conservatives thinkers on how to have universal heath care within the context of a private free market system.

But don't look to business people for policy guidance. I remember talking to one executive of large pharmacy chain in Canada extolling the virtues of capitalism.

"The only problem with capitalism is ... to much competition"
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2011, 01:10 PM
David Edenden David Edenden is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Americans might be wimps but Canada's tar sands are going to usher in the total collapse of the climate of the planet.

Of course the only way to stop this is for the US to invade Alberta and put an end to it...for the children.
We need a bridge to get us to a green future. Better Tar Sand AND Oil Shale AND "Fracking" natural gas than oil from Saudi Arabia!

My choice: Thorium Nuclear Power.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2011, 01:31 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
There are many things I like about the US but several things I miss about Canada.

Poutine, the health care system, and the much more rational immigration system are three advantages Canada has.

I've had to work pretty hard for 15 years and be quite successful in my career to finally have access to health care that rivals what I was getting in Canada as a poor white trash kid in a family of 4 with an income under 15K a year.

I have no doubt that there are upper middle and above Canadians who come to the US for specific procedures. This doesn't say anything about what health care is like for the vast majority of Canadians vs. the
vast majority of Americans.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:19 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Most Americans will go to their (relatively early) graves thinking they have the best health care system in the world, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including rates of longevity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
There are plenty of reasons for the difference in longevity, not necessarily related to the quality of health care.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:37 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
What do Snowbirds think?

...

Since they have experience with both systems it will give us an excellent sample of public opinion on a large group of upper middle class people who have experience with both systems.
No one disputes that America has good health care if you can access it. The problem is that tens of millions don't have access to it.

As far as the snowbirds go: Of those Canadians retired in Flordia: I assume some are becoming American citizens, and then are eligible for our system of single payer socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). So that's not exactly the basis for a valid comparison between the American and Canadian health care systems.

Of those Canadians in the US who have not changed their citizenship, who pays for their health care? Are they eligible for Medicare? Does Canada pay their bills? Or do they have to pay for their own health care on the free market? No idea how that works.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:48 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
I've had to work pretty hard for 15 years and be quite successful in my career to finally have access to health care that rivals what I was getting in Canada as a poor white trash kid in a family of 4 with an income under 15K a year.
Indeed. And you raise a good point: Health care in the US can be excellent if you have the money to pay for it. The basic American model is you can have what you can pay for. If you're a criminal defendant, you can obtain justice as long as you can afford a lawyer. If you're sick, you can be healed as long as you can afford a doctor.

Republicans would like to extend this model to education, by replacing socialized public education with a private system that would only be available to those who could afford it. Then school would be like health care: great for everyone except the 40 or 50 million who can't afford it.

And as we have discussed before, they want to do the same with the postal service, replacing the public model that serves all of the people with a private system that serves those who can afford it, and from whom private mail carriers can extract profit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
I have no doubt that there are upper middle and above Canadians who come to the US for specific procedures. This doesn't say anything about what health care is like for the vast majority of Canadians vs. the vast majority of Americans.
One common concern I hear from Canadian when we talk about our health care systems is that many good Canadian doctors and researchers are drawn to the US because they can make so much more money here than up north. And still the Canadian system outperforms the US system.
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Last edited by TwinSwords; 12-04-2011 at 07:17 PM..
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
There are plenty of reasons for the difference in longevity, not necessarily related to the quality of health care.
True, but longevity, or life expectancy, is related to overall care. Doctors in France, in my experience, place more emphasis on preventive medicine and healthy lifestyles. There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world.
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:43 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
True, but longevity, or life expectancy, is related to overall care. Doctors in France, in my experience, place more emphasis on preventive medicine and healthy lifestyles.
The highlighted portion is the most relevant factor, IMO, and it is separate from health care. It is a matter of personal choice. The problem of obesity in the United States is a cultural problem, and so not really tied to any kind of health care deficiency. And that is just one huge example of the difference.

Quote:
There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world.
I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:47 PM
David Edenden David Edenden is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
No one disputes that America has good health care if you can access it. The problem is that tens of millions don't have access to it.

As far as the snowbirds go: Of those Canadians retired in Flordia: I assume some are becoming American citizens, and then are eligible for our system of single payer socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). So that's not exactly the basis for a valid comparison between the American and Canadian health care systems.

Of those Canadians in the US who have not changed their citizenship, who pays for their health care? Are they eligible for Medicare? Does Canada pay their bills? Or do they have to pay for their own health care on the free market? No idea how that works.
"Snowbirds are Canadian citizens who spend the winter months in Florida ... usually in a condo or a mobile home. They have to purchase private Canadian travel insurance ... usually through Blue Cross. Blue Cross plus "Canadian "Medicare" split the bill.

The US left is so useless. They can only make a nuisance of themselves by striking, occupying or demonstrating but can't organize anything.

The key is to get 5,000n "Snowbirds" in a town hall ...
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:04 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France.
That depends on what you mean by "racially" diverse. There are real ethnic/religious/racial minorities in metropolitan France and its overseas "départements" (la Martinique, Guadaloupe, Guyane, La Réunion) but there are not, as far as I know, significant differences in infant mortality rates (I may be wrong). There are, as you say, significant differences in the US.

Last edited by Florian; 12-04-2011 at 04:06 PM..
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:55 PM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Florian says: "There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world."

STD replies: "I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France."

The US ranks 28 out of 30 in the OECD infant mortality rate ranking. But I bet if we gave white infants extra weight in the counting, we'd come off much better. Are you suggesting, STD, counting black kids as, I don't know, say, three-fifth? I bet no one has ever thought of that!
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

It's true that there are many different variables in play, such that looking simply at mortality rates is a poor way of measuring the effectiveness of the provision of health care in a given country. That's why it's nice that smart people out there have worked very hard to quantify the rate of deaths that are amenable to health care in a given country. And look, here's what they found:



It turns out that the US has higher amenable mortality rates than all but a handful of european countries, all of whom spend far less money on health care than we do in the United States.

P.S.: for Florian's benefit, I suppose I should point out just how awesome France is when it comes to health care. They appear to really have this stuff figured out over there. The Canadians on the board can find something to be proud of in this data as well.

Last edited by Don Zeko; 12-04-2011 at 08:02 PM..
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:57 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
That depends on what you mean by "racially" diverse. There are real ethnic/religious/racial minorities in metropolitan France and its overseas "départements" (la Martinique, Guadaloupe, Guyane, La Réunion) but there are not, as far as I know, significant differences in infant mortality rates (I may be wrong). There are, as you say, significant differences in the US.
In fact, you are wrong.

Martinique: 6.95 per 1,000 births
French Guiana: 11.76 per 1,000 births
France: 3.4 per 1,000 births

Where France is racially diverse, it has a higher mortality rates. It may disturb some people here, but some races are prone to certain genetic diseases which kill infants more than others. Sorry (ohreally), that disease can be racist.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:59 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Florian says: "There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world."

STD replies: "I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France."

The US ranks 28 out of 30 in the OECD infant mortality rate ranking. But I bet if we gave white infants extra weight in the counting, we'd come off much better. Are you suggesting, STD, counting black kids as, I don't know, say, three-fifth? I bet no one has ever thought of that!
Are you suggesting that there aren't differentials in susceptibility of genetic disease between races? Are you anti-science?
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2011, 06:00 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
It's true that there are many different variables in play, such that looking simply at mortality rates is a poor way of measuring the effectiveness of the provision of health care in a given country. That's why it's nice that smart people out there have worked very hard to quantify the rate of deaths that are amenable to health care in a given country. And look, here's what they found:
Before I can respond, I would have to know how they distinguish deaths due to lack of health care. Obesity is an example which muddies the water as I mentioned earlier. Diets are regional and cultural, not due to a lack of health care access.
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
sapeye sapeye is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
At least four... I have dual citizenship and have lived extensively in both countries. In my view, the snowbird argument is bullshit and almost all the critiques of the Canadian healthcare system are bullshit, too. Either that or sponsored lies. Sure the Canadian system has some problems, especially when compared to some of the European systems, but it's a shining light when compared to the US system.

To pretend that the US system is superlative is to deny reality.
It can be useful to set aside ferociously held opinions and consider the facts.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Parallax Parallax is offline
 
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Default ECB Insanity (just for the record)

This was not mentioned in the diavlog but ECB actually raised interest rates from 1% to 1.5% in the first half of 2011! Only recently ECB admitted its mistake when Mario Draghi cut it back to 1.25%.

If ECB kept rates at 1% and Draghi cut it to 0.5% once he took over things would have been very different, it would not solve Europe's problems but it would be a great deal of help.
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  #28  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:13 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapeye View Post
At least four... I have dual citizenship and have lived extensively in both countries. In my view, the snowbird argument is bullshit and almost all the critiques of the Canadian healthcare system are bullshit, too. Either that or sponsored lies. Sure the Canadian system has some problems, especially when compared to some of the European systems, but it's a shining light when compared to the US system.

To pretend that the US system is superlative is to deny reality.
It can be useful to set aside ferociously held opinions and consider the facts.
Ah! Thanks for weighing in. And sorry for having overlooked your Canadianness! :-)
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:28 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
In fact, you are wrong.

Martinique: 6.95 per 1,000 births
French Guiana: 11.76 per 1,000 births
France: 3.4 per 1,000 births

Where France is racially diverse, it has a higher mortality rates. It may disturb some people here, but some races are prone to certain genetic diseases which kill infants more than others. Sorry (ohreally), that disease can be racist.
Isn't the fact that infant mortality is correlated to low income at the individual level or gdp at the country level a more likely explanation than innate genetic predisposition of certain racial groups?
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Before I can respond, I would have to know how they distinguish deaths due to lack of health care. Obesity is an example which muddies the water as I mentioned earlier. Diets are regional and cultural, not due to a lack of health care access.
Then read the PDF. This is complicated stuff, and I'm sure there's something in there to quibble with, but they've shown their work. Don't just speculate about what you feel might be wrong with their data when they've done the work and you haven't.
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  #31  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Isn't the fact that infant mortality is correlated to low income at the individual level or gdp at the country level a more likely explanation than innate genetic predisposition of certain racial groups?
Of course, but as your graph notes, there is a substantial drop off between what is actually low income, globally, and what we're talking about "low income" in the West. Thus, the genetic factors have a higher impact in wealthier nations for these measurements. In any case, why is this a controversial observation? Sickle Cell anemia, for example, has a higher incidence among certain racial and ethnic groups; sickle cell anemia killed as many as 100,000 infants in Nigeria.

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=79916

It stands to reason that the more diverse your population, the more things like this skew the figures. I've read that black Americans actually suffer from SIDS at twice the rate as whites.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:52 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Then read the PDF. This is complicated stuff, and I'm sure there's something in there to quibble with, but they've shown their work. Don't just speculate about what you feel might be wrong with their data when they've done the work and you haven't.
When I follow your first link, this is what I get:

Authentication Error

Sorry, your authentication has timed out. Please try requesting the document again here.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:53 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

crap, me too. I'll try and find a working link....

EDIT: ok, I think the link is fixed.

Last edited by Don Zeko; 12-04-2011 at 08:02 PM..
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:54 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Are you suggesting that there aren't differentials in susceptibility of genetic disease between races? Are you anti-science?
In fact, among the known susceptibilities to disease, it comes out to a wash in terms of mortality. The usualy understanding of the racial differences in mortality in the US is differences in access to, or use of, medical services.
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
In fact, among the known susceptibilities to disease, it comes out to a wash in terms of mortality.
What did you have in mind as an example for a counterweight? Cystic fibrosis? As I understand it, they've managed to make pretty heavy advances in combating newborn deaths from CB.

Quote:
The usualy understanding of the racial differences in mortality in the US is differences in access to, or use of, medical services.
And there is the matter I'm raising.
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:12 PM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
It stands to reason that the more diverse your population, the more things like this skew the figures.
In fact, no. There's is zero evidence that African-American infant deaths have a genetic factor that's more than noise. If you count only white America, the rate is 5.6, which puts the US in position 24 out of 30 in the OECD ranking (tiny improvement from 28).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...mortality.html

Too bad we can't blame it on the shitty genes of nonwhites, that most American of excuses.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

A relatively minor topic for many, but since no one else is discussing it, I'll mention it. Megan talked about some aspects of gender disparities, salary range, salary negotiation, perception of women in leadership by others, and the phenomenon of speaking up in meetings/classes. I can relate to all of those since I have encountered the same or similar difficulties during my career.

If the person in charge is a man, usually people take it pretty much for granted that everyone has to follow his rules. On the other hand, if it is a woman, there's often or almost always a certain level of challenge by some.

If the man in charge gets fed up or frustrated because a task isn't coming along as expected, an open display of his irritation may work as a call to duty for others. A woman in charge on the other hand, may encounter protests and objections and of course, the feedback of being bitchy or authoritarian, or whathaveyou. If the woman due to a more subdued character tries to stimulate cooperation in a gentle non-authoritarian manner, it's a message that she has no leadership skills and many will take advantage of the situation and try to get away with their own ways of doing things.

Fortunately, these stereotypical responses aren't always present, and sometimes they are only present at the beginning until people settle and accept female authority without resentment.

In the situation of speaking up in classes or meetings, it's interesting how women may patiently wait for their turn to speak, but men tend to interrupt each other in some kind of pace that seems to work well for them. But if a woman tries to do the same, it isn't uncommon that they will be ignored or even resented.

I guess it's all about adjustment to a new dynamic where both men and women have to come out of their traditional roles and find a way to communicate more fairly.

With salary negotiations, it is unlikely that the employer will be too willing to give women much of a break, but there should be regular comparisons of salaries, at least in large organizations to see if there is disparity and find a way of making it more egalitarian.
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
In fact, no. There's is zero evidence that African-American infant deaths have a genetic factor that's more than noise. If you count only white America, the rate is 5.6, which puts the US in position 24 out of 30 in the OECD ranking (tiny improvement from 28).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...mortality.html

Too bad we can't blame it on the shitty genes of nonwhites, that most American of excuses.
That chart seems to reinforce my view, rather than yours. I think genetic illness is a serious problem that needs to be addressed by scientists; not some politically incorrect factor that needs to be swept under the rug.
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:45 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Indeed, if we look at this chart:



We see how this breaks down. Now, if this was simply a matter of some leftist economic grievance, it seems to me that Mexicans would be suffering at the same level as blacks, or Puerto Ricans. Mexicans have even better infant mortality rates than whites.

Theories?
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:54 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
As far as the snowbirds go: Of those Canadians retired in Flordia: I assume some are becoming American citizens, and then are eligible for our system of single payer socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). So that's not exactly the basis for a valid comparison between the American and Canadian health care systems.
In order to collect Medicare benefits you or your spouse has to pay Medicare taxes for ten years.
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