Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

[thouartgob]

I quoted bob in another thread involving Public Image Limited and their song Rise and remembered....

"I could be wrong I could be Wright"

[graz]

Originally Posted by badhatharry

Spiegel ties the disintegration of the Republican Party to the Tea Party:

Africa is a country. The Taliban rule in Libya. Muslims are terrorists. Immigrants are mostly criminals, Occupy Wall Street protesters are always dirty. And women who claim to have been sexually molested should kindly keep quiet.”

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Republican Party. Or rather: to the distorted world of its presidential campaign. For months it has coiled through the country like a traveling circus, from debate to debate, from scandal to scandal, contesting the mightiest office in the world — and nothing is ever too unfathomable for them… These eight presidential wannabes are happy enough not only to demolish their own reputations but also that of their party, the once worthy party of Abraham Lincoln. They are also ruining the reputation of the United States.

They lie, deceive, scuffle and speak every manner of idiocy. And they expose a political, economic, geographic and historical ignorance compared to which George W. Bush sounds like a scholar. Even the party’s boosters are horrified by the spectacle…

Platitudes in lieu of programs: in serious times that demand the smartest, these clowns offer blather that is an insult to the intelligence of all Americans. But as with all freak shows, it would be impossible without a stage, the U.S. media, which has been neutered by the demands of political correctness, and a welcoming audience, a party base that seems to have been lobotomized overnight. Notwithstanding the subterranean depths of the primary process, the press and broadcasters proclaim one clown after the next to be the new frontrunner, in predictable news cycles of forty-five days.

source

[AemJeff]

Originally Posted by rcocean

I haven't listened to the DV but wanted to post anyway, even though I have nothing to say.

Later, I might half listen to the DV and then comment about how I'm half the way through and ask other people what the other half was about.

Or I just may post a picture or ask an inane question of no one in particular.

Or possibly not talk about how BHTV is ending but instead engage in meaningless snark about what someone else wrote.

Wouldn't you say that last bit is a pretty accurate description of exactly what you posted here?

[Ocean]

Let's throw a party!

(I'm not inviting my Republican Cousin. Es muy aguafiestas.)

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by miceelf

Right, because "behead bankers" is a completely representative example of OWS slogans that media people accepted and tolerated, while "less government" was the TP slogan that people objected to.

yep! The problem for all of you libs is that you made such a big deal about the Tea Party being violent racists and now turn about is, IMHO, fair play.

[stephanie]

Way late to this, I guess, but I'm hoping -- after having listened -- that the mournful tone here is premature.

Glad for Bob's Atlantic news, and I think the non-profit status is a good idea and that (if the forum continues) he should encourage donations here. Just a button or the like.

I'll miss the daily+ diavlogs, but I always do love Bob's interviews, am happy WiB will be continuing, and like Jim would welcome continued regular pairings if any of our usuals would be interested. I wonder if any of the more enthusiastic regular diavloggers would be interested in trying to play more of a role in drumming up discussions of interest based on their approval of the project -- I've always thought bloggingheads would be a good "take it outside!" for ongoing interblog blog back and forths of all kinds. Maybe that's wishful thinking -- I have no idea how long actually doing one takes, even when one is familiar. But I will think positively for now.

It was good to see an old-fashioned Bob/Mickey discussion, finally, even if it was alarmingly low on snark.

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by miceelf

You're right, of course. It's absolutely shocking that events organized by corporate backers who bussed people around to different rural areas and screened the people who they bussed AND had the tacit approval of the powers that be ended up getting into less conflicts with police that gatherings in urban centers without corporate sponsorship or screening process and where police were actively directing homeless and/or mentally ill people to attend said events.

OMG!!!!

[Simon Willard]

Hmm. My Alma Maters never cease pursuing donors. They reward contributors with fancy monikers based on the level of support:

$10 and up: Friends of BHTV
$50 and up: The Commentariat Club
$200 and up: The Erudition Society
$1000 and up: Founding Heads
$5000 and up: Friends of Frazier

[jimM47]

Originally Posted by AemJeff

Wouldn't you say that last bit is a pretty accurate description of exactly what you posted here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBNXDXNOKlo :-p

[Robert Wright]

Originally Posted by osmium

I assume the forum will still be here. Is that right, Bob, anyone?

Yes, there will be *a* forum, though the forum software will almost certainly change. (Long story.)

I want do a commenter klatch very soon--either with Aryeh or with a commenter--to address a bunch of issues like this that have been raised by commenters. Sorry I gave such a sketchy account of the future of BhTV in the diavlog (though to some extent that reflects genuine uncertainty).

Meanwhile, thanks to those of you who have said nice things about Bloggingheads. That kind of stuff means more to me and others than you may realize.

And thanks, JonIrenicus, for the Star Trek clip. It stiffened my spine for the battle ahead!

[Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted by rcocean

I haven't listened to the DV but wanted to post anyway, even though I have nothing to say.

Later, I might half listen to the DV and then comment about how I'm half the way through and ask other people what the other half was about.

Or I just may post a picture or ask an inane question of no one in particular.

Or possibly not talk about how BHTV is ending but instead engage in meaningless snark about what someone else wrote.

Haaaa! That's funny.

Bob, call your show Slappy Hour with B Wrizzle Fo' Shizzle.

[PreppyMcPrepperson]

Joining the chorus of mourning for BHTV as we know it. Will miss BHTV Classic, as we're calling it. I am not sure what to make of the plan for Bob's own show - Bob is perfectly entertaining and sharp, and he will be a great asset to the Atlantic, but it seems very un-BHTV to have content anchored around the views of one person and whomever he chooses to interview. A great deal of the intellectual diversity of the site is about to vanish. The diversity of the content is part of what drives the diversity of this forum and this forum has been one of my favorite places on the internet for several years. So, I heave a sigh.

One way Bob can make it up to me: get Mickey on more.

[AemJeff]

Originally Posted by jimM47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBNXDXNOKlo :-p

Well yeah, but... you gotta be sharper than what you're poking at, if the joke is going to work. Don't you think?

[Sulla the Dictator]

Originally Posted by miceelf

You're right, of course. It's absolutely shocking that events organized by corporate backers who bussed people around to different rural areas and screened the people who they bussed AND had the tacit approval of the powers that be ended up getting into less conflicts with police that gatherings in urban centers without corporate sponsorship or screening process and where police were actively directing homeless and/or mentally ill people to attend said events.

I don't remember being bussed around, or being paid by any corporate parties when I attended Tea Party functions. How odd. No one I know did either.

And yeah, I'm sure that the police are necessary parts of a conspiracy to get homeless people to go where people are sleeping in the open, on the news, giving out free food and shelter.

OWS is what the Left really is. Nasty, brutish, immature, ignorant, obnoxious, and parasitic. Without the bribery of useless bourgeois busy work, we'd be seeing a lot more of this.

It is amazing how the cult of the State, personified by the American bourgeois left, manages to disassociate itself from ORDER as soon as its convenient. So the Tea Party were peaceful because they were corporate stooges (Who were "sheltered by the powers that be" when the Left controlled all of government), while OWS is engaged in violence because of police provocation. It is necessary for them to SQUAT in the center of town and shred the law and lay waste to order to "fight the man". The "man" never being the President, the Senate, or even the various left wing mayors of Oakland, Los Angeles, New York, or Philadelphia.

[BornAgainDemocrat]

I'm sad. Can we make contributions to keep you going the old wqy?

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by badhatharry

yep! The problem for all of you libs is that you made such a big deal about the Tea Party being violent racists and now turn about is, IMHO, fair play.

I didn't claim that someone with endless time and energy couldn't find a sign that was vaguely offensive. I was saying that the two signs in the cartoon were not both representative.

No one claimed that "smaller govt" was hate speech. No one claimed that a guillotine sign was okay. The cartoonist picked the most innocuous of the TP signs, treated it as representative, and claimed that the media were characterizing THAT sentiment as hateful. The cartoonist picked the most offensive of the OWS signs, treated it as representative and pretended that the media were excusing the signs.

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by Robert Wright

Yes, there will be *a* forum, though the forum software will almost certainly change. (Long story.)

I want do a commenter klatch very soon--either with Aryeh or with a commenter--to address a bunch of issues like this that have been raised by commenters. Sorry I gave such a sketchy account of the future of BhTV in the diavlog (though to some extent that reflects genuine uncertainty).

Meanwhile, thanks to those of you who have said nice things about Bloggingheads. That kind of stuff means more to me and others than you may realize.

And thanks, JonIrenicus, for the Star Trek clip. It stiffened my spine for the battle ahead!

You should know that those of us who DIDN'T say nice things were thinking them.

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator

I don't remember being bussed around, or being paid by any corporate parties when I attended Tea Party functions. How odd. No one I know did either.

I don't remember urinating in public or raping or murdering anyone. And here we are.

[Sulla the Dictator]

Originally Posted by miceelf

I don't remember urinating in public or raping or murdering anyone. And here we are.

My memory lapse seems to involve some pretty innocuous possibilities. Your memory lapse concerns atrocity.

Why exactly should anyone ever call the Tea Party an extremist element, given that?

Why is there any place in civilized society for OWS? Why aren't we reading these people out of politics, given their use of violence?

Can't you TASTE the hypocrisy?

[Starwatcher162536]

I'm a sad panda ... The podcasts themselves were very hit or miss in my totally unjustified non-humble opinion, but they usually generated the most interesting comment threads.

[sapeye]

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536

I'm a sad panda ... The podcasts themselves were very hit or miss in my totally unjustified non-humble opinion, but they usually generated the most interesting comment threads.

Panda? Have I been missing something? Is there other wildlife writing amongst us? Seems like a vital topic for a Science Saturday on unusual animal behavior.

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator

My memory lapse seems to involve some pretty innocuous possibilities. Your memory lapse concerns atrocity.

Why exactly should anyone ever call the Tea Party an extremist element, given that?

My failure to murder someone or urinate publically (atrocity!!!!) is somehow proof of the superiority of the Tea Party? All righty then.

[Mr. Morden]

One thing I'm curious about that I hope Bob will flesh out in the forthcoming Commenter Klatch.....He said in this Diavlog that he'd like to keep the platform "open" to any of the regulars who want to contribute. Does that mean that BHTV 2.0 will as a matter of course accept submissions from any pair of the regular Heads (who's diavlogged enough that they know what they're doing and won't botch the recording)? If the Heads take all the initiative, and don't screw up the recording, is it all pretty easy on BHTV's side?

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by miceelf

I didn't claim that someone with endless time and energy couldn't find a sign that was vaguely offensive. I was saying that the two signs in the cartoon were not both representative.

No one claimed that "smaller govt" was hate speech. No one claimed that a guillotine sign was okay. The cartoonist picked the most innocuous of the TP signs, treated it as representative, and claimed that the media were characterizing THAT sentiment as hateful. The cartoonist picked the most offensive of the OWS signs, treated it as representative and pretended that the media were excusing the signs.

What OWS signs were criticized by the media? Links, please.

[bkjazfan]

Originally Posted by miceelf

For some reason, you made me think of Queen Latifah, which led me to:

Just Wright.

Queen Latifah - her Dana Owens (real name) CD consisting of songs for old fogies like me is delicious: "California Dreaming," "Hello Stranger," I Got A Spell On You, and "Lush Life."

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by badhatharry

What OWS signs were criticized by the media? Links, please.

The claim you posted was that the media was specifically characterizing hateful OWS signs as fine and dandy, NOT that the media mainly ignored OWS except for clashes with police.

[thouartgob]

Originally Posted by Mr. Morden

One thing I'm curious about that I hope Bob will flesh out in the forthcoming Commenter Klatch.....He said in this Diavlog that he'd like to keep the platform "open" to any of the regulars who want to contribute. Does that mean that BHTV 2.0 will as a matter of course accept submissions from any pair of the regular Heads (who's diavlogged enough that they know what they're doing and won't botch the recording)? If the Heads take all the initiative, and don't screw up the recording, is it all pretty easy on BHTV's side?

It is not just botched recordings that drive the cost up it's having to pay somebody to edit it together, adjust audio, format it for the web, keep it on the web, pull out the handy topics and create dingalinks etc. If all of that is done ahead of time it wouldn't be too much of a bother I guess. Maybe Bob can dupe an Atlantic intern to do it

[badhatharry]

Originally Posted by miceelf

The claim you posted was that the media was specifically characterizing hateful OWS signs as fine and dandy, NOT that the media mainly ignored OWS except for clashes with police.

It was a cartoon. We have moved on, now. Can't answer my question, right?

[miceelf]

Originally Posted by badhatharry

It was a cartoon. We have moved on, now. Can't answer my question, right?

It's an irrelevant question, and it was a dumb and dishonest cartoon.

To answer your question, I assume no one criticized the one sign you managed to dig up. Whether they did or not is irrelevant to the claim that they were excusing such signs.

Why not point out examples of the mainstream media criticism of "less government" signs?

[uncle ebeneezer]

Bob, congrats on the Atlantic gig. Hopefully you will manage to get McMegan and Sullivan to be less batty.

I'm sad to hear about the impending changes. The daily aspect was, imo, one of the best features of the site in that one could always just check in tomorrow after a diavlog that wasn't their cup of tea.

Like many others, I just want to thank you for keeping the whole thing together for these many years. I discovered bhtv at a time when I was just beginning to scratch the surface of my interest in politics and world affairs. I had already started reading a number of blogs but bhtv provided me the best one-stop portal to a myriad of issues (science, UN, reproductive rights, foreign policy, immigration, prison reform) that are typically only given surface-level coverage by the MSM. And it also gave me the exposure of so many talented, and insightful people who I now read regularly. And of course I've also "met" many great people, engaged in challenging (to myself) debate, seen other viewpoints, and had a whole lotta fun. It was a heckuva ride, Brownie. I hope that at some point The Atlantic or somebody will see the great value to a site like this and agree to underwrite it on some level. Cheers-- Uncle Eb

[Florian]

Graz says....

When the Germans, normally the loyal stooges of the US---and the conservative Spiegel at that---say such things about Republican candidates and the U.S. media, I have to wonder why the French are not saying similar things.

I liked this:

But as with all freak shows, it would be impossible without a stage, the U.S. media, which has been neutered by the demands of political correctness, and a welcoming audience, a party base that seems to have been lobotomized overnight.

Has bhtv helped keep the freak show going?

[thouartgob]

Originally Posted by Florian

Graz says....

When the Germans, normally the loyal stooges of the US---and the conservative Spiegel at that---say such things about Republican candidates and the U.S. media, I have to wonder why the French are not saying similar things.

I liked this:

Has bhtv helped keep the freak show going?

Is there some elaboration ? I'll decompose your quote to make some points.

bhtv is centered in the US and most of the political and social discussions revolve around the host country. I guess you could call it a culpable, if that is one of the reasons why the US media is also part of the freak show.

Political Correctness on bhtv ? Worse than some better than most mainstream outlets however.

Welcoming audience ?

As for the party base ( republicans ) I guess I don't blame bhtv for having republicans on. There are many sins but the sin of that omission would involve lots of Hail Marys and self-flagellation.

If bhtv added to the maniacal state of the US media at least it was a least worse option than nearly all of the others and it had dingalinks. Faint praise maybe but I would take what I could get.

[Florian]

Originally Posted by thouartgob

Is there some elaboration ? I'll decompose your quote to make some points.

bhtv is centered in the US and most of the political and social discussions revolve around the host country. I guess you could call it a culpable, if that is one of the reasons why the US media is also part of the freak show.

Not culpable, but maybe complicit in the freak show?

Political Correctness on bhtv ? Worse than some better than most mainstream outlets however.

True.

Welcoming audience ?

Your cinematic memory is astonishing. That is some freak show.

As for the party base ( republicans ) I guess I don't blame bhtv for having republicans on. There are many sins but the sin of that omission would involve lots of Hail Marys and self-flagellation.

If bhtv added to the maniacal state of the US media at least it was a least worse option than nearly all of the others and it had dingalinks. Faint praise maybe but I would take what I could get.

I come not to bury bhtv, but to praise it----when it is good.

[thouartgob]

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve

I appreciate the effort Bob put into the site. But I think it can be successful if the libs are challenged more. The Reason magazine input was crap. Esp Matt Welch. Have Steve Sailer or Mark Steyn on against any of the regular libs. The coming financial collapse of America is going to be pretty bad for people. But it will definitely get great ratings as the play by play is analyzed. Mish Shedlock would be very interesting to listen to in the BHTV format.

How are things in the bunker ? Anybody hit one of your tripwires and got impaled yet ? Slightly more seriously when the Great Collapse comes and all of the blacks, homosexuals, uncircumcised women, liberals, hispanics, atheists, soccer fans, jews, art museums, folk singers, teachers, doctors, the sick, children under 4 and the rest of the unarmed are all swept away, like bhtv in it's present form, you will miss us ya big lug.

The science saturday stuff was full of libs. Boring, uninteresting. As uninteresting as scientific american and NY science times. What a disgrace when the libs refused to appear because of Michael Behe. All Behe did was explain his science exceedingly well. Libs don't like it when you do that. Jerry Pournelle would be great. http://jerrypournelle.com/

Isn't Jim Pinkerton enough of a science fiction response to the events of the day. Do we need Larry Niven's bromance partner as well ?( Jerry actually is recovering from brain cancer treatments so I hope he is doing well ). I'd of really preferred Robert Heinlein but alas ...

I think a real complaint is that social conservatives didn't appear as much and while that is true I am sure Bob would love to have had more of them. Problem is you only need one or 2 of them because there is only 1 right answer so it doesn't take long to exhaust a discussion with them.

[piscivorous]

Just got back from my yearly sabbatical, in which I leave most things technical TV, radio, internet .... behind, and am saddened to see one of my favorite internet forums going thru such a dramatic change. Thanks Mr Wright and all those who have participated here it's been a slice.

[thouartgob]

Originally Posted by Florian

Not culpable, but maybe complicit in the freak show?

Aren't we all to one extent or another. The only interesting people I know have a bit of freak in them. I agree however that the state of mainstream media in this country is atrocious and I hope in the future American will look back in shame and not in admiration

Your cinematic memory is astonishing. That is some freak show.

It's a bit more of a curse. Unfortunately I also get earworms all the time and it's annoying when people mention phrases and a song lodges there for days.

I come not to bury bhtv, but to praise it----when it is good.

"Ah but a man's reach should exceed his grasp"

[miceelf]

I am feeling much more optimistic than Bob.

My fervent hope is that this site will be around, as will Bob, by the time I am retired from my current job and thus able to appear on camera with Bob, challenging him about evo psych, positive psychology, or whatever pet hobby horse I will have developed by that time.

[chiwhisoxx]

i'm a little late, but I finally watched it. my first reaction: this sucks. a lot. really, really, sucks. it's completely understandable, and on some level I sort of knew that this couldn't continue in perpetuity with the current business model...but for whatever reason, that isn't making it suck any less. so I've kind of developed a sort of cognitive dissonance. I think it should go without saying, but I'll add to what everyone else has already said about this site. it opened my mind, showed me all sorts of different debates, helped me learn how to better construct an argument, and perhaps most importantly introduced me to a bunch of really smart, thoughtful and interesting people. it was always one of the first sites I checked in the morning. sounds like it's kind of unclear where we'll go from here, but it certainly seems like things won't be the same. I can't think of anything else to say, other than that it's a damn shame.

[Tyrrell McAllister]

Bob could call his show "Some Non-zero".

[Sulla the Dictator]

Originally Posted by miceelf

My failure to murder someone or urinate publically (atrocity!!!!) is somehow proof of the superiority of the Tea Party? All righty then.

No. I'm saying that the critiques of the different groups are illustrative.