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  #201  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:37 AM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Be still your heart ... Oh wait ... The outrage at his impudence for despoiling the forum decorum:

This would be my guess.
Doesn't a winkie extend slack?
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wow. I hadn't seen that post, and was wondering where the ban came from. so yeah....
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  #202  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:10 AM
Francoamerican
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Same here. I didn't find it offensive. I took it as an obvious joke.
After reviewing Florian's recent postings, I have come to the conclusion that he is the victim of a scurrilous campaign by humorless prudes to discredit him. If the remark in question was actually taken seriously by the staff of BHTV, if they actually thought florian was accusing uncle ebeneezer of being a rapist, they are even more lacking in reading and writing skills than some of the posters who litter this forum with their rubbish---which is saying a quite a lot.

Since I find this difficult to believe, I shall just assume that the bannishment of florian is a mystery, one of those acts of God that have always puzzled us poor mortals.

Last edited by Francoamerican; 07-08-2011 at 04:18 AM..
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  #203  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:15 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francoamerican View Post
After reviewing Florian's recent postings, I have come to the conclusion that he is the victim of a scurrilous campaign by humorless prudes to discredit him.
I stood up for him, so who are you blaming here? Why do you think we'd banish a source of amusement?

Just tell him to come back under a different name. No big deal. He can tell us he's from Fritaly; we'll believe him.
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Last edited by sugarkang; 07-08-2011 at 04:19 AM..
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  #204  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:26 AM
Francoamerican
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I stood up for him, so who are you blaming here? Why do you think we'd banish a source of amusement?

Just tell him to come back under a different name. No big deal. He can tell us he's from Fritaly; we'll believe him.
Not to worry. Florian holds libertarian clowns like you in high esteem. They remind him of Rameau's Nephew (Diderot). But I doubt if he will want to return under such an ugly name as Fritaly.
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  #205  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:05 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francoamerican View Post
That was a joke. If the staff thought it was anything else, they are singularly devoid of humor. Perhaps it is because Florian called most of the diavlogs trash.

Florian told me that that his bannishment was probably due to wonderment who repeatedly misreads what he writes and then takes offense when florian questions his reading skills. One should never cross such a tiresome, self-righteous fool who cannot imagine that his moral convictions are not shared by everyone.

But Florian is happy to be banned. I doubt if he will return.
The banning is still a mystery. But we may find out one day in the near future, I hope. We don't even know whether it's permanent or temporary.

One way or the other, tell Florian that we valued his insights, understood his humor, and endured his insults (for the most part).
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  #206  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:43 AM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

First of all, if Florian was banned, how can he continue to post? Or is it that he was banned temporarily, rehabilitated, and then tagged with the scarlet "Banned" rubric to mark his shame?

As someone who has been on the receiving end of some of Florian's more pointed barbs (but, then, who among us has not?), I have to say that I have found some of his retorts to Wonderment to be over-the-top, and this is not the first time I've said this. Some of them set a new standard for cultured (and not-so-cultured) incivility. So I think that is a far more likely casus expulsionis than the post about crappy diavlogs and a sponsored trip to Paris for a rape-fest, the rape of the bloggingheads women. And Wonderment, as we know, is the favored poster, indeed, the poster-boy of all posters. Not that I am jealous in any way.

I agree with you, Ocean, that "libertarianism" is represented on this site in a way that is way out of proportion to any inherent interest it holds, and I have said this several times. Where are the anarcho-syndicalists when we need them?

I think that Bob's conception of bhtv is that it is mainly devoted to politics and "current events." There should be more political scientists in evidence, whatever one may think about that discipline. Or, maybe he could get someone like Nate Silver to come on, he is a blogger. There should be more empirically based analysis of what is happening in the US and the world, economically and sociologically. That is, if we are going to discuss politics.

I read the Will Wilkinson piece in which he expresses grave concern about the plight of young blacks, especially teenagers, who cannot develop a work resume because they are priced out of the labor market by the minimum wage. I can see that that might be a problem. It's not a problem that warrants abolishing the minimum wage, in my judgment. Nor do I think that lowering the minimum wage to a level at which it becomes obviously profitable to employ lots of black teenagers would be a good idea.

I can also see that it might be difficult, from a legal and nondiscrimination point of view, to retain the minimum wage and develop targeted programs, such as wage subsidies, to address the problem in a targeted way. There could be wage subsidies, but they would probably have to be offered to all teenagers. Maybe one could means-test the subsidies, but then you've got a huge bureaucratic "solution" to a relatively small problem. There have been targeted employment programs for black and Hispanic teenagers "at risk," I know that, but I don't know the specifics. If the programs did not make much of a dent in the problem, perhaps it is because they were not ambitious enough. Basically, I think there should be targeted employment programs for poor teenagers.

But we could just throw open the borders, repeal virtually all regulations of commerce, have private police and fire services, maintain a monopoly of serious military force at the national level, and see how that goes. The very obvious result of the libertarian fantasy would be the world-wide authoritarianism that libertarians claim to fear most. It's so fucking stupid that one can't even get one's head around it.

Anyway, Wilkinson and Lindsey and even McCardle were/are all OK. If it were just those three, "libertarianism" would be very amply represented on the site. But no, we have to have an entire gaggle of these people, and, like, who cares?
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Last edited by ledocs; 07-08-2011 at 09:25 AM..
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  #207  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:37 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

I guess we'll need another Commenter Court?

There's a lot of silly banter in the comments that doesn't add value to the site for new readers. I know: I do it too. When the silliness extends to joking about rape it becomes off-putting. Throw specific commenters into the joke and you have probably crossed the line.

I've been insulted by Florian; no big deal. I even defended Florian's right to label Wonderment a "prig".

But I can also see that this recent joking does real damage to the site.
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  #208  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:47 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Same here. I didn't find it offensive. I took it as an obvious joke.
Late to this party, but me too.
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  #209  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:50 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
If it were just those three, "libertarianism" would be very amply represented on the site. But no, we have to have an entire gaggle of these people, and, like, who cares?
There's one of me and twenty of you. If I'm a gaggle, does that make you a swarm? Oh, that's right. You won't see this because you put me on your ignore list under the pretense that I would ignore you first. Except, I didn't. Oh and those other lies that you said. Didn't do those, either.

Thanks for your understanding. Please continue to hurl passive aggressive insults without any specific criticisms.
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  #210  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:55 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
I guess we'll need another Commenter Court?

There's a lot of silly banter in the comments that doesn't add value to the site for new readers. I know: I do it too. When the silliness extends to joking about rape it becomes off-putting. Throw specific commenters into the joke and you have probably crossed the line.

I've been insulted by Florian; no big deal. I even defended Florian's right to label Wonderment a "prig".

But I can also see that this recent joking does real damage to the site.
Who knows if the comment in question is the reason for the ban, but I think a couple things should be pointed out. First, the comment was not in a thread about any diavlog, so would not appear on the front page. It's unlikely to freak out 'heads or new commenters.

Second, the context is obvious if one reads the thread in question, about DSK. Florian was annoyed at what he perceived as unfair comments about the French attitude toward rape, and the comment was clearly related to that. It also clearly was not an accusation against Uncle Eb, and I expect Florian would have clarified if Uncle Eb had taken offense. Well, probably, depending on his mood.

I wonder, a bit, if it might have had to do with the insistence that the alleged victim was a prostitute, in that the only media source for that statement is being sued, and Wonderment was correct in his statement that there's no good reason to assume it's true. But surely not?
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  #211  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:57 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
There's one of me and twenty of you.
What makes you think your views are more unique on this site than ledocs'?
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  #212  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:59 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
What makes you think your views are more unique on this site than ledocs'?
One could also wonder what made him think that ledocs' assertion about diavloggers had anything to do with him.
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  #213  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:04 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

I was referring to a gaggle of libertarian diavloggers, not to the commenters.

I apologized to you as soon as I realized that I had confused a post of operative's for a post by you. I am quite confident that you said you were going to filter me, but I could not find the interchange. It must have occurred over a year ago.

I read your exposition about your developing political philosophy, and I found it quite difficult to understand. This is not because I am a poor reader or unaccustomed to reading difficult things. My feeling was that the author of that post should be less aggressive than I think you are in your online interactions.
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  #214  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:15 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
One could also wonder what made him think that ledocs' assertion about diavloggers had anything to do with him.
Yeah, good point. I was assuming he thought he needed the 'heads as cover, I guess, since he's so alone.

ledocs should be able to pick some 'heads to give him cover, if so.
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  #215  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:17 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I am quite confident that you said you were going to filter me, but I could not find the interchange. It must have occurred over a year ago.
Could it be because I never said such a thing? The only person that irritated me enough to be ignored was the Dark Wizard, and that was purely on the basis of post count.

Quote:
I read your exposition about your developing political philosophy, and I found it quite difficult to understand. This is not because I am a poor reader or unaccustomed to reading difficult things. My feeling was that the author of that post should be less aggressive than I think you are in your online interactions.
It was meant for operative and it was not meant to be a treatise. Despite that, I welcome your substantive criticism. There's no need to shroud it in a feigned politeness. I believe I've laid out the foundations for my fundamental beliefs. Various posters have thrown indirect insults hoping to offend me, but not brave enough to be specific. Perhaps you'd like to break custom and do the latter. After all, I did not come here expecting to be popular.
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  #216  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:22 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I read your exposition about your developing political philosophy, and I found it quite difficult to understand. This is not because I am a poor reader or unaccustomed to reading difficult things. My feeling was that the author of that post should be less aggressive than I think you are in your online interactions.
This from the guy who is second in line only to Florian/Francoamerican in
calling folks idiots and morons.
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  #217  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:58 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Not "folks," badhat, you. By the way, I've got a bibliographical reference for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Predat...143319&sr=1-11
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  #218  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:12 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Not "folks," badhat, you. By the way, I've got a bibliographical reference for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Predat...143319&sr=1-11
You must have forgotten, you're ignoring me. And as for your book recommendation...just more about how everyone is a victim and the wonderful people in Washington should protect us from them. FYI, there will always be bad people.
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  #219  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:20 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
As someone who has been on the receiving end of some of Florian's more pointed barbs (but, then, who among us has not?), I have to say that I have found some of his retorts to Wonderment to be over-the-top...
Thank you. Me too.

Wonderment,

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  #220  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:32 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
This from the guy who is second in line only to Florian/Francoamerican in
calling folks idiots and morons.
Well, anyone who is second is going to be a distant second.

Also, in the "over the top" camp wrt to some of Florian's comments to wonderment.
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  #221  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:46 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
FYI, there will always be bad people.
I never thought of that. I have misjudged you terribly. You are a fount of wisdom. Nevertheless, and in contradiction of the premise that people will act in their self-interest, I will return you to your rightful place, the place from which you came and to which you must return....
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  #222  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:49 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I never thought of that. I have misjudged you terribly. You are a fount of wisdom. Nevertheless, and in contradiction of the premise that people will act in their self-interest, I will return you to your rightful place, the place from which you came and to which you must return....
omg harry, do something quick!
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  #223  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:58 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Who knows if the comment in question is the reason for the ban, but I think a couple things should be pointed out. First, the comment was not in a thread about any diavlog, so would not appear on the front page. It's unlikely to freak out 'heads or new commenters.
Yes, I agree with that. The possibly offensive (to some) comment was posted in one of the non-diavlog threads.


Quote:
Second, the context is obvious if one reads the thread in question, about DSK. Florian was annoyed at what he perceived as unfair comments about the French attitude toward rape, and the comment was clearly related to that. It also clearly was not an accusation against Uncle Eb, and I expect Florian would have clarified if Uncle Eb had taken offense. Well, probably, depending on his mood.
The more we discuss this possibility the less likely it seems to me. I truly don't think that the ban has to do with his joke, tasteless or not.


Quote:
I wonder, a bit, if it might have had to do with the insistence that the alleged victim was a prostitute, in that the only media source for that statement is being sued, and Wonderment was correct in his statement that there's no good reason to assume it's true. But surely not?
Unlikely.

The Wonderment mistreatment seems to be the most likely possibility to me.
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  #224  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:12 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Yes, I agree with that. The possibly offensive (to some) comment was posted in one of the non-diavlog threads.




The more we discuss this possibility the less likely it seems to me. I truly don't think that the ban has to do with his joke, tasteless or not.




Unlikely.

The Wonderment mistreatment seems to be the most likely possibility to me.
Truth to tell, I've been skipping over the commotion by the ocean, but looking at the LUE thread, I see nothing ban-worthy that Florian said to him. It seems the only thing it could be is the rape joke.
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  #225  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:14 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
The Wonderment mistreatment seems to be the most likely possibility to me.
Yeah, me too.

Since this is a CC thread, then, I'll complain about the procedure from a pragmatic standpoint. I agree that a number of Florian's comments to Wonderment were rude, unfair, and/or "over the top." It is not clear to me that they are distinguishable as a matter of forum policy from certain other comments that are often tolerated.

If TPTB wish to make an example and demonstrate that certain behavior is not permitted, it seems like it would make more sense to be more transparent. Maybe something like deleting a comment plus a warning, and then a ban of some sort for a subsequent violation? The drawback about this, of course, is that it would be useful for others to know what conduct is being marked out. Right now, I can't learn from the action taken re Florian, since I don't know what he's in trouble for.

I get there's never going to be consistent enforcement, I realize that would be a pain, and I'm definitely not requesting a diavlog or CC on the issue, but replacing a comment or portion thereof with "Deleted" or moving an individual post to the dungeon (I don't see why this would be impossible) or some such would seem to provide more of an example than a mysterious banning. Of course, it might encourage argument and more complaints about similar comments.
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  #226  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:39 PM
Brenda Brenda is offline
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Default The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Florian was banned for 3 weeks for repeatedly insulting other commenters. Francoamerican was banned permanently for making an end run around the Florian banishment.
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  #227  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:42 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
Florian was banned for 3 weeks for repeatedly insulting other commenters. Francoamerican was banned permanently for making an end run around the Florian banishment.
Is this a new policy?
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  #228  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:18 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Before he was banned, did anyone from bhtv staff warn him that he might be banned if a certain kind of thing continued? I think it would be appropriate to get at least one warning from someone official, if that is possible.

I hope very much that florian comes back, but I also hope that he will tone down his rhetoric. The banishment was earned, but it's also a terrible loss to the forum.
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  #229  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:22 PM
look look is offline
 
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Thumbs down Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Before he was banned, did anyone from bhtv staff warn him that he might be banned if a certain kind of thing continued? I think it would be appropriate to get at least one warning from someone official, if that is possible.

I hope very much that florian comes back, but I also hope that he will tone down his rhetoric. The banishment was earned, but it's also a terrible loss to the forum.
Fritaly.
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  #230  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:29 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
Florian was banned for 3 weeks for repeatedly insulting other commenters. Francoamerican was banned permanently for making an end run around the Florian banishment.
Thanks for the explanation.
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  #231  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:30 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Before he was banned, did anyone from bhtv staff warn him that he might be banned if a certain kind of thing continued? I think it would be appropriate to get at least one warning from someone official, if that is possible.

I hope very much that florian comes back, but I also hope that he will tone down his rhetoric. The banishment was earned, but it's also a terrible loss to the forum.
I agree.
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  #232  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Brenda Brenda is offline
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

In consideration of his sometimes-positive contributions, he was politely warned.
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  #233  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:25 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I hope very much that florian comes back, but I also hope that he will tone down his rhetoric. The banishment was earned, but it's also a terrible loss to the forum.
Yes, I agree with the substance of the comment.

Indeed, it is painful to see Florian/FrancoAmerican going against well regarded fellow commenters.

Disagreements will always exist. Losing one's patience and even one's cool is also part of what can be expected. But it would also be desirable to keep it within certain limits of politeness. There's a level of reaction against those who disagree with us or annoy us that is plainly fruitless. I think we may all be guilty of crossing some lines from time to time, but perhaps the repetitive behavior makes it more problematic.

We also should acknowledge that it is only those who are on the receiving end of incivility that can truly tell the gravity of the insult. The rest of us just aren't keeping track of each comment.

I truly hope that Florian can come back and continue to contribute without putting others in difficult situations or getting in trouble for it.
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  #234  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

It's amusing to draw a parallel between the Florian BHtv banning and the DSK US arrest. Who is more enlightened: the Frenchman who emphasizes freedom in human interactions, unmolested by the state, or the American who wants to enforce Puritanical notions of respectful behavior?

Would Bernard Henri-Levy defend Florian?
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  #235  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
It's amusing to draw a parallel between the Florian BHtv banning and the DSK US arrest. Who is more enlightened: the Frenchman who emphasizes freedom in human interactions, unmolested by the state, or the American who wants to enforce Puritanical notions of respectful behavior?

Would Bernard Henri-Levy defend Florian?
You do realize that it isn't likely that Florian's banning was due to his joke about the rape intent in Paris, right?

Your reasoning may still apply if we think of his banning as being due to his insults, but I just wasn't sure if you got that part.

You did pick up on an aspect of American culture and its Puritanical origins, which very much goes against liberal/libertarian concepts of respecting others' privacy and withholding judgment about what's proper or improper, as long as the referred behavior doesn't affect others directly.
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  #236  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:26 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
Florian was banned for 3 weeks for repeatedly insulting other commenters. Francoamerican was banned permanently for making an end run around the Florian banishment.
This seems a bit capricious, although I cede to your authority in this matter. It's just that repeatedly insulting other commenters has been a characteristic of Florian's for as long as I've been around and is a characteristic of more than a few of the people on this forum. How do you draw the line or is this a caution to the wise?
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  #237  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:34 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: The banishment of Florian / Francoamerican

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Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
We also should acknowledge that it is only those who are on the receiving end of incivility that can truly tell the gravity of the insult. The rest of us just aren't keeping track of each comment.

I truly hope that Florian can come back and continue to contribute without putting others in difficult situations or getting in trouble for it.
C'mon, Florian would be lost if he were relegated to not putting others in difficult situations (read: being gratuitously insulting). That's his hallmark and a strange one for someone so reputedly educated.
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  #238  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:52 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Of course, it might encourage argument and more complaints about similar comments.
might? surely you jest.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:04 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

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Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
You did pick up on an aspect of American culture and its Puritanical origins, which very much goes against liberal/libertarian concepts of respecting others' privacy and withholding judgment about what's proper or improper, as long as the referred behavior doesn't affect others directly.
Actually, I was using the word Puritanical somewhat tongue-in-cheek, since it's a term often used as an insult by liberals. I'm not picking up on Puritanism in America. What I'm picking up on is an issue that splits the common conception of "liberal" or "enlightened".

It's probably unreasonable to claim that contemporary American culture is much influenced by the Puritans. The program of extending rights and dignity to historically disadvantaged people (women, colored, poor) is not Puritanical -- it's enlightened. It's also enlightened to respect privacy in human relationships, withhold judgment about what's proper, keep cops out of the bedroom, etc. That's where the split occurs. I didn't come with any answers; I'm just pointing out the split, as is my wont. And I'm musing on the Florian banning as a microcosm of the same split. I find this entertaining for the obvious reason that DSK is French and Florian lives in Paris.

Last edited by Simon Willard; 07-09-2011 at 10:06 AM..
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  #240  
Old 07-09-2011, 10:23 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Court: The End(?) (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
That's where the split occurs. I didn't come with any answers; I'm just pointing out the split, as is my wont. And I'm musing on the Florian banning as a microcosm of the same split. I find this entertaining for the obvious reason that DSK is French and Florian lives in Paris.
What split?
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