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  #1  
Old 07-06-2009, 03:52 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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  #2  
Old 07-06-2009, 03:54 AM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Proof that there is a God: We get another Michelle Goldberg DV.

Proof that God has a mean sense of humor: Michelle Goldberg is paired with Ann Althouse.
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:15 AM
mmacklem mmacklem is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Proof that there is a God: We get another Michelle Goldberg DV.

Proof that God has a mean sense of humor: Michelle Goldberg is paired with Ann Althouse.
I actually found Michelle Goldberg much more interesting in this one than in her last one, where her co-diavlogger mostly agreed with her. I found many of her arguments much more interesting when she had to push back against her interlocutor.

Edit: Wow. Apparently I spoke too soon. Ann Althouse's attempted debunking of all of MG's points against Sarah Palin was too much to believe. My goodness, how an obviously intelligent person can actually believe what she is saying in that discussion hurts my brain to contemplate.

Last edited by mmacklem; 07-06-2009 at 08:34 AM..
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:09 PM
niktemadur niktemadur is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmacklem View Post
My goodness, how an obviously intelligent person can actually believe what she is saying in that discussion hurts my brain to contemplate.
"Are you the brain specialist? My brain hurts!" I just had to slip a little Monty Python in there.

As for the diavlog, it also makes the blood boil. The constant interruptions throughout betray the fact that that woman on the right was not even listening to Mrs Goldberg. Also, it seems that dittohead indoctrination will make even a seemingly intelligent person perform some outlandish mental gymnastics along with selective amnesia.

And so, Obama's campaign speeches were divisive, while the whole "Obama pals around with terrorists" was okey dokey, and so were the crowd chants of "Kill Obama" at Palin rallies last year. Might as well also smile benevolently at Limbaugh's little ditty "Barack the magic negro".

To my utter disbelief, the hits just kept on coming:
1) William Kristol's endorsement of Palin as a positive thing. Because, you know, Kristol is an intellectual titan and quite the neocon prophet.
2) Republicans directing gratuitous and vicious comments at Chelsea Clinton was all, you know, good clean fun, while making jokes about unwed teenage mothers who flip-flop their opinions on national television, arrested meth addicts, etc, is just plain gauche.
3) Speaking of the devil, the best defense against Sanford hypocrisy is yet another swipe at whatever Bill Clinton did ten years ago, and the fact that Sanford was among the ones loudly condemning the President back then should only make him cuddlier and more trustworthy today, I guess.
4) Of course, it's de rigueur to reference and/or quote Oxycontin Boy, often.
5) Finally, Palin's speech was eloquent and canny? Holy cow, I was almost expecting that woman to defend torture, Dick Cheney and Bush's response to Katrina somewhere along the way.

To paraphrase Jeff Gannon or James Guckert or whatever his name was, why try to work with conservatives on these diavlogs, seeing how disconnected they are from reality?
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2009, 09:46 PM
Jayne Jayne is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

To niktemadur:

A. You are in utter amazement that there are other opinions out there that differ from yours? Welcome to the hurly burly, girly.

B. As Althouse said, the claims that there were murderous shouts at a Palin rally were debunked. Purely a creation of the media.

C. But, please examine the strength of Michelle's hatred of Palin, that is truly scary and completely unmerited except by some kind of mental illness. Palin is of no threat to Michelle. She is simply a political candidate with a different point of view. With very little chance of being elected, I might add. So where from does this temper tantrum level of deranged hatred come? hmmm?

My theory is that the intense hatred of President Bush never dissipated, it just kind of hung around like a funky, ugly yet exciting boyfriend until it found another target in Sarah Palin. Imagine her surprise to be the inheritor of the collectivist feelings earned by George Bush. Kind of makes her seem Presidential in a way.....

I don't know you people, but I am hoping that you do not self identify as feminists? I am a - former - feminist (albeit rather a centrist / conservative who supported women's rights) who has come to see feminism as a vague synonym for liberalism that has a bunch of little insecure girls acting unattractively like they never outgrew the pettiness of middle school. what other movement eats its own? The men I know who are real men don't. The african americans? No. The gays? No. You feminists have become nothing. Live with that.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2009, 10:35 PM
DoctorMoney DoctorMoney is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
what other movement eats its own? The men I know who are real men don't. The african americans? No. The gays? No. You feminists have become nothing. Live with that.
I just thought I'd highlight this super weird logic.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2009, 10:38 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMoney View Post
I just thought I'd highlight this super weird logic.
Yes, indeed, because the first answer that came to mind when I read this ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
what other movement eats its own?
... was: the conservative movement.

To be fair, they appear more into purging than eating lately.
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  #8  
Old 07-08-2009, 11:43 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayne View Post
what other movement eats its own? The men I know who are real men don't.
I'm a real man and I eat my own all the time. Why, just last weekend I was in hot water with the little missus for ingesting our youngest. I tried telling her that if she wanted me to stop snacking on 'em she'd do a better job camouflaging them but you know how women are about these things.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2009, 09:38 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Heh.
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2009, 11:54 AM
kezboard kezboard is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
what other movement eats its own?
I don't know, Republicans?
(I had three dingalinks to Matt Lewis eating his own on three different weeks on This Week in Blog, but I screwed something up and they didn't work. I'm sure if you ask him, though, he'll tell you all about Real Conservatives and who isn't one.)
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:07 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmacklem View Post
....Ann Althouse's attempted debunking of all of MG's points against Sarah Palin was too much to believe. My goodness, how an obviously intelligent person can actually believe what she is saying in that discussion hurts my brain to contemplate.
I'm not sure how much of what Ann defends reflects what she actually believes. Many times she's just looking for some weakness in the other person's (whomever she is interacting with) argument or just finding the other side of the coin. It seems to me she is doing what lawyers are supposed to be good at doing. She's good at it even if we disagree with her arguments.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2009, 10:16 AM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
I'm not sure how much of what Ann defends reflects what she actually believes. Many times she's just looking for some weakness in the other person's (whomever she is interacting with) argument or just finding the other side of the coin. It seems to me she is doing what lawyers are supposed to be good at doing. She's good at it even if we disagree with her arguments.
I was enjoying Ann's take on things and the effect it had on Ms. Goldberg in the beginning. Her lawyerly tendencies did make for an interesting diavlog. But in the end she falls into her favorite tendencies ( at least in her appearances on BHTV ). Pardon my french, but the bug up her ass about clinton continues to wiggle to this day for a reason known only to her. She continues find little fault or to be charmed by conservatives hypocrisies and blather.

Conservatives only have positive things to say, Palin never said negative things ?? These statements stretch credulity and make it difficult to wade through the rest of the diavlog.

If she is acting as a "defense lawyer" for the republican party then please own up. She isn't working Pro Bono here the GOP has plenty of cash.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2009, 07:43 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I see your point. That's why I think that her stated positions here reflect the lawyer practicing/displaying skill in defending the other side of the argument mixed what her opinions really are. Sometimes it's difficult to identify what she's doing, but you can see the patterns over time. She is very smart.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:15 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Shorter Ocean:

Quote:
Ann Althouse is actually smart. It's just really hard to tell.
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:23 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Shorter Ocean:
Quote:
Ann Althouse is actually smart. It's just really hard to tell.
LOL! I didn't say that!
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:32 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
LOL! I didn't say that!
;^)
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2009, 10:53 PM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
I see your point. That's why I think that her stated positions here reflect the lawyer practicing/displaying skill in defending the other side of the argument mixed what her opinions really are. Sometimes it's difficult to identify what she's doing, but you can see the patterns over time. She is very smart.
Indeed. I run hot/cold on her sometimes which can make it harder to discern her patterns. She does keep the forums busy and she has a flair for the dramatic that will keep her in the mix for quite a while. She did make the point that she considers herself a frustrated artist and some of the stuff she does she considers some form of performance art. There are times when I laugh trying to discern her art of persuasion from her performance art. Good interlocutor when she is on her game though and yeah she is a bright person.
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:47 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I don't like dissing my fellow runner, but Sarah Palin seems to be going full trainwreck.

Here, hold on, I have my finger on the pulse of America, let me tell you what it says... Ah: voters want someone stable. Now that we're through with Clinton and Bush, I think people would like someone a bit out of the 50s in the way that they don't have affairs and throw tantrums. Maybe this is Obama's appeal. It certainly will not be Palin's.
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:59 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Off the grid

Disappearing as a governor might be worse than Anne thinks. I mean, I'm nobody, and if I vanished for several days it would be an enormously irresponsible thing to do. Everybody else: can you just disappear from your job like that? No, right?
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  #20  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:35 AM
messwithtexas messwithtexas is offline
 
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Default Re: Off the grid

I think that is going to be the big issue for Sanford. I think Ann is right in pointing out that in practicality most states would be fine without a governor over a long weekend, but that misses the larger point. The big issue for Sanford is that he cannot escape how professionally irresponsible it was to do that and his explanation (true love/adultery), while touching, is not enough to excuse his behavior. Voters know this sort of behavior is unacceptable for them, so I don't think they will accept it from their governor and certainly not their future president. Like Mitt Romney recently said about this "Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is a governor."
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  #21  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:24 AM
messwithtexas messwithtexas is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I resent Althouse's estimation of the "ordinary American". So if you don't identify with Palin's message you're somehow abnormal? Hardly. I think "basic" or "simple" Americans is what she means. This sort of language, like Palin's discussion of "real America" during the campaign, is divisive because it subtly insinuates that those who don't agree with you are somehow less "American".

Politically (and logically), I think this sort of message is a dead end. It might make your supporters feel better about themselves, but I don't think it does much for winning new support. Independents tired of having their patriotism questioned during the Bush years and Obama used that against conservatives during the election.
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  #22  
Old 07-06-2009, 01:12 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by messwithtexas View Post
I resent Althouse's estimation of the "ordinary American". So if you don't identify with Palin's message you're somehow abnormal? Hardly. I think "basic" or "simple" Americans is what she means. This sort of language, like Palin's discussion of "real America" during the campaign, is divisive because it subtly insinuates that those who don't agree with you are somehow less "American".

Politically (and logically), I think this sort of message is a dead end. It might make your supporters feel better about themselves, but I don't think it does much for winning new support. Independents tired of having their patriotism questioned during the Bush years and Obama used that against conservatives during the election.
I agree. I actually think it's playing into the problems the Republicans are having with the professional class, a group that used to be much more split (due to economic issues) and now is trending into the Dems. I also think it explains a good bit of the strong reactions to Palin.

However, media and pundit-type figures seem especially prone to convince themselves that it's a strong argument and likely to succeed, I think because they either have a complex that they aren't part of the "real America" or, like Chris Matthews, have a shtick of being uniquely in touch with it vs. the media generally. (I think Ann's attraction to the argument is more based on her love for seeing herself as a contrarian, for whatever reason.)
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  #23  
Old 07-06-2009, 01:35 PM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I don't think Althouse thinks those who don't support Palin are abnormal. I think she's trying to defend Palin's assertion of the other America's values (the other being what is not Goldberg's America). Althouse went out of her way to describe Palin's message as positive and not resentful (Goldberg's word and perception). Goldberg, I think, is projecting how she views frontier and rural America on to how Palin views urban, liberal America. Both sides do to this to one another actually. Nobody likes getting projected on I guess.

Palin's basic national political message has been, imo: America isn't only urban and liberal, but rural and conservative too. She, and a lot of other conservatives today, are not much different from the populism of William Jennings Bryan. The same political tension between rural and urban America continues to this day. Sarah Palin is simply on the rural, populist side.

Last edited by Lyle; 07-06-2009 at 01:49 PM..
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:03 PM
messwithtexas messwithtexas is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
I don't think Althouse thinks those who don't support Palin are abnormal. I think she's trying to defend Palin's assertion of the other America's values (the other being what is not Goldberg's America). Althouse went out of her way to describe Palin's message as positive and not resentful (Goldberg's word and perception). Goldberg, I think, is projecting how she views frontier and rural America on to how Palin views urban, liberal America. Both sides do to this to one another actually. Nobody likes getting projected on I guess.
Abnormal may not be the best choice of words, but Ann does imply that Michelle and others that share her opinion are not part of the group of "ordinary Americans" that Palin appeals to. "Out of the ordinary" may be more accurate. To the different America's metaphor, Ann makes no indication she means only a segment of America except to indicate the "ordinary" one.

Quote:
Palin's basic national political message has been, imo: America isn't only urban and liberal, but rural and conservative too. She, and a lot of other conservatives today, are not much different from the populism of William Jennings Bryan. The same political tension between rural and urban America continues to this day. Sarah Palin is simply on the rural, populist side.
I don't disagree with Ann's larger point that there are some people that Palin strikes a chord with and I agree with your assertion that this is a sort of "rural populism". I just resent the divisive language that claims a monopoly on Americanism. I don't think that is projection.
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:54 PM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by messwithtexas View Post
Abnormal may not be the best choice of words, but Ann does imply that Michelle and others that share her opinion are not part of the group of "ordinary Americans" that Palin appeals to. "Out of the ordinary" may be more accurate. To the different America's metaphor, Ann makes no indication she means only a segment of America except to indicate the "ordinary" one.
She may have conveyed that, but I think she meant to describe the America that's not Goldberg's America.



Quote:
Originally Posted by messwithtexas View Post
I don't disagree with Ann's larger point that there are some people that Palin strikes a chord with and I agree with your assertion that this is a sort of "rural populism". I just resent the divisive language that claims a monopoly on Americanism. I don't think that is projection.
I don't think Althouse or Sarah Palin use divisive language though. There are rural populists or conservatives that do and some may support Palin, but Palin's rhetoric doesn't veer into the negative from what I've heard.
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:56 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
I don't think Althouse or Sarah Palin use divisive language though.
Doesn't the fact that most liberals find both of these women highly offensive and obnoxious mean anything to you, as far as "divisive" goes?

Quote:
There are rural populists or conservatives that do and some may support Palin, but Palin's rhetoric doesn't veer into the negative from what I've heard.
All that stuff on the campaign trail about "Obama palling around with terrorists" and "real Americans" doesn't strike you as negative?
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:43 PM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Doesn't the fact that most liberals find both of these women highly offensive and obnoxious mean anything to you, as far as "divisive" goes?
Not really. They just disagree with you and you can't handle it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
All that stuff on the campaign trail about "Obama palling around with terrorists" and "real Americans" doesn't strike you as negative?
Obama hung out with Ayers and she's proud of where she's from. She doesn't hate you guys like you hate her.
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  #28  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:12 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
Not really. They just disagree with you and you can't handle it.
However much you want to portray your girlfriends as saints and put all of the blame on liberals' shortcomings, it does not at all change the fact that Palin and Althouse are divisive, by definition.

Quote:
Obama hung out with Ayers and she's proud of where she's from. She doesn't hate you guys like you hate her.
This is just pure idiocy. Anyone who isn't a wingnut knows Obama did not "hang out" with Ayers, and certainly had nothing to do with him forty years ago. And excuse me, but being proud of where you come from doesn't change the reality that calling everyone else who doesn't not-real Americans is negative speech.
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:31 PM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Depends on your definition of hung out. They know each other and Obama used Ayers and his home to further his political career. No they aren't buddies and Obama is a much, much better human being than Ayers, but they spent some time together and one can call that hanging out.
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:01 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
Depends on your definition of hung out. They know each other and Obama used Ayers and his home to further his political career. No they aren't buddies and Obama is a much, much better human being than Ayers, but they spent some time together and one can call that hanging out.
Obama and Ayers's connection was a couple of meet-and-greets/fundraisers and some overlapping time served on the board of a non-profit organization. "Hanging out" to me means being friends, spending time together for other than professional reasons.

In any case, as far as I've ever heard, by the time Obama was active in politics, Ayers was an established -- even Establishment -- citizen, a university professor and a player in the political scene, with a clean record going back decades. I never saw what the big deal was about the two of them spending time together for whatever reason.

This is the sort of thing that were it Sarah Palin, you'd be freaking out about "unfair attacks" and "guilt by association" and "witch hunts" and all manner of hysteria.
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  #31  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I don't care that Obama hung out with Ayers bjkeefe. I'm just saying they hung out together which they did.
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2009, 12:00 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
I don't care that Obama hung out with Ayers bjkeefe. I'm just saying they hung out together which they did.
Man, your persistence with trying to salvage some points out of an utterly different claim never fails to amaze me.

Remember the original point? Of course you don't. You said that Palin did not speak negatively and I said that I did not think "palling around with terrorists" could be seen as anything but.

Why is it so hard for you to keep a thought in your head from one post to the next?
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Lyle
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Why do you project how you view the world on to other people bjkeefe? I'm not trying to score points. I don't take posting at bh.tv personally. I'm not trying to win or beat anyone down. You're a guy who responds to people with statements like: I'll remember that for the record. We don't all think like you and aren't at war with anybody. It is all just a discussion in mine eyes.

Palin also criticized Obama with the Ayers quote, not the "other America". We weren't talking about her criticizing Obama, but rather she has heavily criticized "liberal America".
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2009, 12:27 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

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Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
Why do you project how you view the world on to other people bjkeefe? I'm not trying to score points. I don't take posting at bh.tv personally. I'm not trying to win or beat anyone down
Whatever you say, Lial.

Quote:
Palin also criticized Obama with the Ayers quote, not the "other America". We weren't talking about her criticizing Obama, but rather she has heavily criticized "liberal America".
You're so far unplugged from reality I'm going to drop this.
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  #35  
Old 07-06-2009, 04:27 PM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by messwithtexas View Post
I resent Althouse's estimation of the "ordinary American". So if you don't identify with Palin's message you're somehow abnormal? Hardly. I think "basic" or "simple" Americans is what she means. This sort of language, like Palin's discussion of "real America" during the campaign, is divisive because it SUBTLEY insinuates that those who don't agree with you are somehow less "American".

Politically (and logically), I think this sort of message is a dead end. It might make your supporters feel better about themselves, but I don't think it does much for winning new support. Independents tired of having their patriotism questioned during the Bush years and Obama used that against conservatives during the election.
I wonder where the subtlety is ?? One of the things conservatives don't have an issue with is subtlety and I doubt that they are going to abandon a perceived strength in order to appeal to fans of subtlety.

I guess however if conservatives have a new found interest in nuance they can now take over the mantle of tolerance. Who knew conservatives had such an ability to identify with the OTHER. I thought fighting evil and purging the profane was the point.
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  #36  
Old 07-06-2009, 05:43 PM
messwithtexas messwithtexas is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I was trying to be charitable.
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  #37  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:27 AM
mattcbrown mattcbrown is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Oh, Althouse. When she defends Sarah Palinparticularly her most recent "speech," if it can be called thatshe really shows her inner contrarian. Bucking up against popular opinion has its place, but when you have to reach that far, you're just button-pushing. Some people might find that intellectually stimulating, I guess, but it strikes me as embarrassing.

Last edited by mattcbrown; 07-06-2009 at 11:28 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:14 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcbrown View Post
Oh, Althouse. When she defends Sarah Palinparticularly her most recent "speech," if it can be called thatshe really shows her inner contrarian. Bucking up against popular opinion has its place, but when you have to reach that far, you're just button-pushing. Some people might find that intellectually stimulating, I guess, but it strikes me as embarrassing.
I've only had the chance to listen to the very beginning of this one so far, but that's largely my read of Althouse. She knows Palin pushes buttons, knows she is an entertaining media figure, if all you care about it pure amusement, so it's entirely predictable that she'd become a Palin defender.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:19 PM
freedomforall freedomforall is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

Or maybe Michelle Goldberg is wildly overreacting to Palin so Ann tries to calm her down?
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:57 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Sex and Palin Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Ann Althouse)

I am convinced that the only reason Bob keeps inviting Ann back on is because he can't get Rush Limbaugh.

It would take far more time than I care to spend detailing all of the inconsistencies in Ann's "thinking" on display in this diavlog, but I did have to laugh when after spending the first 95% of the diavlog insisting that the only possible reason that Palin quit was to run for president, she finished up by saying (paraphrased), "Who can tell why she quit? I don't want to say. We'll just have to wait and see."

I was also glad Michelle quickly dismissed Ann's pathetic accusation of "sexism" (no one could have predicted Ann would go there!) regarding the speculation that Palin quit because she actually does want to spend more time with her family. One point Michelle did not make which bears saying: at least as far as I've heard, the only people who have offered this as their best guess for Palin bailing out of her job have been her supporters. People who do not like Palin tend to favor as a best guess a looming scandal which Palin got wind of. Others near the top include some sort of personal/medical problem, her thin skin/boredom once the job stopped being all about her soaking up adulation, she's done all she needs to do to get what she really wants (a lucrative gig on Fox), and she really does think, dumb as it is, that this actually is the smartest way for her to run for president. So, unless Ann wants to call Palin's fans "sexist," she really was out to lunch on this one. Even measured against everything else she said.

And speaking of sexism, I found it rather fascinating that Ann repeatedly used the phrase "uploaded' regarding Palin's need to get up to speed on policy matters. Why didn't she just say, "Palin has to learn" or "Palin has to read" or "Palin has to spend some more time cracking the briefing books?" To say, three or four times at least, (slight paraphrase) that "someone needs to upload information into Palin" sounded like she views Palin as an inert and empty vessel, incapable of initiative or self-improvement. I can easily imagine someone else using this "uploaded" formulation and Ann flipping out about the phrasing.

Other moments of hilarity: Ann insists that Palin "won" the VP debate; Ann insists that Palin doesn't play to her fans' resentments; Ann uses Bill Always Wrong Kristol in an appeal to authority; Ann thinks the "I quit" speech wasn't crazy-sounding; Ann insists that Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh concentrate on a positive message; Ann thinks that because Barack Obama won a convincing victory with a short resume at the national office level, therefore Sarah Palin is just as plausible a candidate and just as qualified to be president; Ann can't understand why Palin provokes a visceral reaction in most everyone smart enough not to spend all of his or her time listening to rightwing talk radio; ... oh, what's the point.

Curse you, hathos.
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