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Old 02-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Ray in Seattle Ray in Seattle is offline
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 441
Default Re: Counter-Enlightenment Edition (David Corn & James Pinkerton)

Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Good points. It's always good to provide a little bit of reality testing. The argument that US interventions in other countries is directed mostly to promotion of democracy is fake and dishonest.
Is that why we just spent billions of dollars and thousands of American lives installing democratic regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq?

US interventions in the internal political affairs of other countries has been always in its self interest. The discussion should be about whether the interventions are justified or not, but the story of wanting to promote democracy is an incidental one.
Promoting democracy requires developing an appreciation for the values of an open society under the rule of constitutional law and an independent judiciary. These elements are seen as a loss of power by any ruler in an historically Islamist / Arab society. The regime will lose power (and personal / family honor) if they allow such a thing to occur. And so they don't. Having more real democracies in the world that provide human rights to all their citizens is in the interest of the US and always has been. Those countries do not attack their neighbors and they make good economic trading partners because they are more stable. We've been trying to do this in the ME at least since 1945.

Your reaction to Ray's first paragraph is understandable. He's condescending. He starts by implying that there's some flaw in your reasoning that prevents you from understanding the Supreme Truth (his opinion and inaccuracies). Good luck. I don't waste any more of my time with him.
It's not a flaw in reasoning. It's failure to reconsider one's beliefs in the face of evidence. We all do it - me included. Those who don't share those beliefs are the only ones who can see and point out the errors in them. It's how the brain works to protect its identity.

Added: I notice that Stephanie tends to take disagreements personally - at least in my comments she has done that several times. I don't take any of this personally unless it's a personal insult but even then I try to stick to the ideas. (I admit I don't always to so well on that count.)
Self determination for DNA

Last edited by Ray in Seattle; 02-04-2011 at 05:23 PM..
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