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  #1  
Old 06-27-2008, 06:06 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

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  #2  
Old 06-27-2008, 07:26 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I'm no fan of Greenwald with his sockpuppetry and tendancy to use hyperbolic hate, but at least he's consistant in his objection to the FISA agreement. Bill B you are so right on his complete pwning of the hypocrite Olbermann and the difference in KO's January Special Comment on FISA where Bush's position is 'fascist' and 'criminal' and his discussion with Jonathon Alter this week where they absolutely gave BO a complete pass.

KO's response at Kos is so pathetic. He starts with "I think John Dean is worth 25 Glenn Greenwalds", only to follow with "I don't know much about Mr. Greenwald and I didn't read his full piece".

And CBS News was considering this clown for the Evening News?
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:35 PM
Tim O Tim O is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I don't think the contention in the FISA fight was "Do what I say" as much as "Why are you selling out the Constitution and not getting anything in return?"

You have Telecoms with armies of lawyers knowing their not supposed to spy on Americans.

You have an Executive that, at best, promised the telecoms immunity and at worst coerced their cooperation.

Congress gave away the carrot to entice them to cooperate and find out who promised what or who threatened who.

They held all the cards and gave them away.

Oh by the way Beutler claims that there is no love lost for Tom Delay, but that's only because he and the destructive conservative agenda was exposed. Before that, they loved him. You'd be hard pressed to find any critical articles on Delay and his shenanigans on a con-bog before that.

The concept of Republican "re-branding" is a joke. They got everything they wanted for 8 years and now that the disaster of the policies is apparent, their saying "Wha Happened!" Must be Democrat obstruction. Must be Bush didn't implement the conservative agenda properly. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT!

Even though they marched and trumpeted the agenda for the last 12 years.

Contract for America My Ass.
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:55 PM
Tim O Tim O is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

John McCain is aware of the internets. You know the series of tubes that email gets stuck in.

http://iamawareofallinternettraditions.blogspot.com/

Aren't computer literacy and internet issues valid issues for consideration of a Presidential candidate? Think Net Neutrality. Think global communications and copyright issues. Information exchange and commerce. Shouldn't a candidate have some working knowledge of the issues driving our planet now and into the future?

Just asking . . .
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2008, 09:35 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I enjoyed this diavlog alot. Lots of great info on the blogosphere, and the chemistry between the two participants was great. Good discussion. I like Conn, but sometimes he descends into GOP talking point mode so much that it seems like he never actually considers anything Bill Scher has to say. I didn't get that sense at all with Beutler, though clearly they had differing views on many issues. Kudos.
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:24 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
I'm no fan of Greenwald with his sockpuppetry ...
That's an unproven accusation which Greenwald has convincingly denied. I'm not going to debate it, since we went through this before, and the only "evidence" that I ever saw was a claim by some rightwing blogger that a match in IP addresses had been noted between different comments on a blog somewhere. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, this does not prove the same person, or even the same computer, was used to post the different comments.

My main reason for bringing this up is to say that when you throw smears like that in there, you undermine my desire to read the rest of your comment, and even if I do, my inclination to give it full consideration.

Maybe you don't care whether people who disagree with you on most issues are going to find it easier to dismiss you out of hand because you choose to repeat such nonsense, but if you do, there it is.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 06-27-2008 at 10:26 PM..
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:32 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

-- Obama spokesman Bill Burton, Oct. 24, 2007

Last edited by Whatfur; 06-27-2008 at 10:36 PM..
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:36 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Tim O:

Quote:
Aren't computer literacy and internet issues valid issues for consideration of a Presidential candidate?
Yes. I touched on this in another thread myself.

It's ridiculous to pretend that this is an ageist attack on McCain. There are plenty of people older than him, some of who are even related to me, who are comfortable with many aspects of the connected life, and much more importantly, aware of the associated issues, benefits and drawbacks. McCain's cluelessness about Web-related matters, and why people jump on it, has little to do with how old he is. Instead, it jumps out because it reminds us, once again, of how like George W. Bush he is. In this case, the shared traits are a lack of intellectual curiosity and an attitude that nothing that he doesn't know about can possibly be important.
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:20 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim O View Post
John McCain is aware of the internets. You know the series of tubes that email gets stuck in.

http://iamawareofallinternettraditions.blogspot.com/

Aren't computer literacy and internet issues valid issues for consideration of a Presidential candidate? Think Net Neutrality. Think global communications and copyright issues. Information exchange and commerce. Shouldn't a candidate have some working knowledge of the issues driving our planet now and into the future?

Just asking . . .
Heres some video support:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...nt.compute.cnn
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  #10  
Old 06-28-2008, 10:54 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
How about your fathers?

Internet savvy is not all that important. McCain lives it. Obama lives it. They both have groups of people who search it and can keep them apprised. Its not "how" information is garnered but if. Their personal knowledge, opinions and deeds are the important things here. Trying to make this an issue is both inventive and silly.

Speaking of deeds, I was just reading a blog where a researcher was off looking for published papers or research done by the Obama under the assumption of his touting and being touted as an academic. Guess what he found? NOTHING. Also inventive and silly, but maybe a little more telling than McCain's knowledge of the workings of the "internets".
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  #11  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:02 PM
Tim O Tim O is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

If you have a grasp of the concepts then you are not a slave to sycophants and fanatics who can steer your impressions and subsequently polices based on thier own agendas.

George Bush for instance, surrounded by sycophants and fanatics pushed a destructive agenda because of Shrubs lack of intellctual curiosity and knowledge of the world in general. That and greed of course.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:04 PM
Tim O Tim O is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Um, McCain does not live it. He has his wife live it for him. The internets that is.
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:30 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
That's an unproven accusation which Greenwald has convincingly denied. I'm not going to debate it, since we went through this before, and the only "evidence" that I ever saw was a claim by some rightwing blogger that a match in IP addresses had been noted between different comments on a blog somewhere. At the risk of belaboring the obvious, this does not prove the same person, or even the same computer, was used to post the different comments.

My main reason for bringing this up is to say that when you throw smears like that in there, you undermine my desire to read the rest of your comment, and even if I do, my inclination to give it full consideration.

Maybe you don't care whether people who disagree with you on most issues are going to find it easier to dismiss you out of hand because you choose to repeat such nonsense, but if you do, there it is.
Greenwald himself as I remember admitted (or conjectured) that the posts that used remarkably similar language to his own were from the same web router (I think he used the words 'same household'), and that someone else in his house must have used the multiple personalities to say the exact same things he was saying on other threads.

Now that is an excuse I dismiss 'out of hand', especially as the sockpuppetry apparently ended immediately afterward.

Sorry if your attempt to create a mass-dismissal of my views doesn't work but hey keep trying if you want to practice (smearing) what you accuse others of doing. It's not very appealing, even less so in a moderator.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:42 PM
Tim O Tim O is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I think it would be vital to know who McCain's telecom advisors are and whether he is getting a balanced presentation of the issues affecting telecom policy.

Net neutrality is not exclusive to the left, thank goodness, so there are plenty of conservative resources to tap into when developing a sound policy for the benefit of the American public.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
...
Sorry if your attempt to create a mass-dismissal of my views doesn't work but hey keep trying if you want to practice (smearing) what you accuse others of doing. It's not very appealing, even less so in a moderator.

But Harkin, where would we be here without Brendan's obvious fairness and high-mindedness. I mean, sure, he can call you into question and then turn around and back-pat the bumper-sticker, author and "intellctual", Timmy O, (sock puppet of Keith O.?) but that doesn't make him a dismissive, smear-monger? Does it?

And "Moderator"? Of what? BHs? OMG. Now I did see his little backhand of the guest bookings the other day which I assumed was a little swipe of jealousy at Mr. Cairo, but did they make him some kind of moderator to powder his ample posterior? That I missed.
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2008, 01:13 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

A flip flopper they say???

And a little about Bush keeping us safe...or as some here might say a Liar's round-up...

Last edited by Whatfur; 06-28-2008 at 02:03 PM..
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2008, 03:32 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim O View Post
Um, McCain does not live it. He has his wife live it for him. The internets that is.
Right! That's why it's an issue, it shows willful ignorance, and a dangerous lack of initiative. Plus, what red blooded geezer (I am a borderline geezer myself) is going to pass up the opportunity for free porn while the beeress is snoring?
(that was a joke, wingnuts) Sorry, try to get THAT image out of your head...
That's going to hurt him not only in the heartland, but the younger crowd will see him as out of touch (no pun, but it works...).
Those who are trying to nullify this issue are wasting their ones and zeros, 'cause the damage is already done. Think about it, using the internet to defend his obviously willful ignorance of it?.... nice try!

Last edited by handle; 06-28-2008 at 03:47 PM..
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2008, 03:57 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

McCain is being portrayed by Dems. as a clueless, confused and out-of-touch old geyser.

It's mean, but he fits the stereotype of everyone's deaf old grumpy uncle for whom taking the grandkids fishing on Lake Alqaedacachoomie would be a big challenge. He'd rather stay in the motor home and watch the Yankee game with the geyser at the next campsite. What was his name again, Fidel who? Come again?

It's a hard stereotype to overcome. If he had already been president, like Reagan, re-election would be likely, but he's not Reagan, and even the Reagan factor -- did that dude have Alzheimer's toward the end? -- could play against him.

McCain doesn't have to really be too old to be president. Voters just have to think he is.
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2008, 04:07 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

That's almost rove-clever, see they didn't filibuster, so...
I am so shocked at the fact that the left isn't squeaky clean either! Thanks for pointing that out.
Paid for by the "we should reelect the blatantly corrupt neocons, at least they want to dismantle the system completely, and make no bones about it" 527.

I'm handle, and I approve linking to wingnut rags to convince myself I'm helping save my corporate lords, and this ad.
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2008, 04:18 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
McCain is being portrayed by Dems. as a clueless, confused and out-of-touch old geyser.

It's mean, but he fits the stereotype of everyone's deaf old grumpy uncle for whom taking the grandkids fishing on Lake Alqaedacachoomie would be a big challenge. He'd rather stay in the motor home and watch the Yankee game with the geyser at the next campsite. What was his name again, Fidel who? Come again?

It's a hard stereotype to overcome. If he had already been president, like Reagan, re-election would be likely, but he's not Reagan, and even the Reagan factor -- did that dude have Alzheimer's toward the end? -- could play against him.

McCain doesn't have to really be too old to be president. Voters just have to think he is.
Alzhiemers sets in slowly, often years before it is diagnosed, I don't see it in Mccain the way I saw it in Reagan even early in his first term, but I do see Mccain kind of trying to mimic that classic sort of slurring speech.
His SNL performance didn't help his cause much either.
How 'bout a backwards baseball cap and a skateboard? Just trying to help...

Last edited by handle; 06-28-2008 at 04:22 PM.. Reason: typo!
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2008, 04:36 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Betty: Gosh honey, what if whatfur is right and electing virtually unknown entity for president will allow a terrorist attack like it did last time?
Billy: I'm not only worried about that, but what if he sets a new record for vacation time in his first year?
Betty: Exactly! I Think our fear of the unknown will guide us RIGHT down the same path this election year.
Billy: Oh honey!.... is that mac and cheese I smell? again?
Betty: Yes dear, and you are going to enjoy it or I'm going to stick this sauce pan right [cut to black screen]

Paid for by the "we should reelect the blatantly corrupt neocons, at least they want to dismantle the system completely, and make no bones about it" 527.

I'm handle, and I approve linking to wingnut rags to convince myself I'm helping save my corporate lords, and this ad.
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:24 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
Pass me the crack pipe Ma.


and speaking of Billy...
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I think the cap and the t-shirt
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Busca la paz y s璲uela
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  #24  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:54 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Good one! Thanks for giving me the credit, but it's a little confusing I think...
Oh yea!
'cause fur says my mom smokes crack! Why, he's a total wingnut wild card!
You never responded to my follow up on that one, so ya might want to do what I do and think of something new... or is that a neocon handicap? Neocon lazycap? Neocon....
I am borrowing the neocon repetitious annoyingly oversimplified labeling though. Mr. neocon.... the neoconster! hacknocon! neoconvict (sorry gotta wait 'til next year for that one.)

FYI Billy and Betty are on your side.

Last edited by handle; 06-28-2008 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: annoyingLY, sorry
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  #25  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:55 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

harkin:

Quote:
Sorry if your attempt to create a mass-dismissal of my views doesn't work ...
Sorry that you misunderstood my point. I do not wish to dismiss your views out of hand. I think you sometimes make a good case for your side. I was only trying to say that you undermined it in this instance, leading off as you did.

Again, if you'd rather just vent your spleen and have no interest in engaging, that's fine. But if it's the case that you're here to discuss, I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Quote:
... even less so in a moderator.
Not sure what this means. I am not a moderator of this forum. Just someone expressing opinions, same as you.

If you're taking exception to my criticizing your repeating rumors which are at best irrelevant, I can only say that I wasn't looking to be a moderater. Again, I was just making a suggestion.
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  #26  
Old 06-28-2008, 06:23 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
I think the cap and the t-shirt
Very nice, now that's a surge!
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  #27  
Old 06-28-2008, 06:37 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
harkin:



Sorry that you misunderstood my point. I do not wish to dismiss your views out of hand. I think you sometimes make a good case for your side. I was only trying to say that you undermined it in this instance, leading off as you did.

Again, if you'd rather just vent your spleen and have no interest in engaging, that's fine. But if it's the case that you're here to discuss, I just thought I'd throw that out there.



Not sure what this means. I am not a moderator of this forum. Just someone expressing opinions, same as you.

If you're taking exception to my criticizing your repeating rumors which are at best irrelevant, I can only say that I wasn't looking to be a moderater. Again, I was just making a suggestion.

I guess this is where you would write...

Nice backpeddle.
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  #28  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:39 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

wait, neoconduit, neoconman, neocon-science, neoconicalhead neoconfiner, neocon-edison, neocontrarian

This just in.... Bush now has an approval rating of 23%
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/pres...pproval-r.html
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  #29  
Old 06-29-2008, 09:46 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
harkin:
..........Again, if you'd rather just vent your spleen and have no interest in engaging, that's fine. But if it's the case that you're here to discuss, I just thought I'd throw that out there.
After my spleen was vented I'd have hope you'd noticed I provided engagement regarding the complete about-face Keith Olbermann took regarding Obama's FISA flip-flop. FISA went from fascist, nazi-like criminality to something worth standing up to the 'far left' over. This is the same Olbermann who some here said was the best replacement for Tim Russert.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Not sure what this means. I am not a moderator of this forum. Just someone expressing opinions, same as you.
My bad, that one is totally on me. I confused you with Peter Lorre (JCairo). My only excuse is your ubiquitousness here but of course that's no excuse at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
If you're taking exception to my criticizing your repeating rumors which are at best irrelevant, I can only say that I wasn't looking to be a moderater. Again, I was just making a suggestion.
Regarding relevance - I can only say past practices are a good indicator of future performance, especially when no penance has occurred. I do appreciate however that 'smears' that had been 'convincingly denied' has now been changed to 'irrelevant' 'rumors'. Now THAT is progress!

Regarding moderator ambitions - here again I was in error because I was criticizing your lack of moderation, which was misplaced (see above).

But here's food for thought ('engagement' even regarding smears and irrelevance), Mickey is regularly called a racist by one of the more deranged posters here, even to the point of saying he should be kicked off BhTV, and yet I noticed none of the house liberals asking this poster to provide one shred of backup to the racism claims. You and the other libs have no obligation to provide any form of balance but I would think that smears that actually do occur here should be called out regardless the political leanings of the person armed with handfuls of excrement.

Last edited by harkin; 06-29-2008 at 09:54 AM..
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  #30  
Old 06-29-2008, 12:13 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default More Beutler

Bearing in mind that I like Conn, I really appreciate the easy back and forth between Scher and Beutler. Beutler clearly enjoys politics and has a knack for painting a picture:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/122...4:13&out=45:32
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  #31  
Old 06-29-2008, 03:12 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
After my spleen was vented I'd have hope you'd noticed I provided engagement regarding the complete about-face Keith Olbermann took regarding Obama's FISA flip-flop.
Didn't see the KO piece. If it went down the way you say it did, I'd say your criticism is justified.

Quote:
This is the same Olbermann who some here said was the best replacement for Tim Russert.
Not I. My own take on KO is that he's entertaining, useful as a needle and counterweight to BillO, and occasionally eloquent in his commentary. I should say that I only watch him when someone points to a video that's available online, so I may not have a full picture of him.

Quote:
But here's food for thought ('engagement' even regarding smears and irrelevance), Mickey is regularly called a racist by one of the more deranged posters here, even to the point of saying he should be kicked off BhTV, and yet I noticed none of the house liberals asking this poster to provide one shred of backup to the racism claims. You and the other libs have no obligation to provide any form of balance but I would think that smears that actually do occur here should be called out regardless the political leanings of the person armed with handfuls of excrement.
I assume you're referring to Wonderment.

The first thing I'd say is that you might ask him to do so directly. The second thing I'd say is that I am not going to speak for the rest of the "house liberals." The third thing I'd say is that it seems to me that the vast majority of Wonderment's criticisms in this regard begin as highly specific responses to particular things that Mickey has said. I'm not sure how much more anyone could substantiate such criticisms. These are not, in the end, assertions of fact. They are statements of opinion.

The last thing I'll say is that I mostly agree with Wonderment's thinking on this, although I might not go quite as far in guessing at Mickey's intent. I do think Mickey shows, at the very least, xenophobia about Mexicans and ignorance about black people. I think he says racist things, I think he's shown an eagerness to engage in race-tinged insinuations about Barack Obama, and I think he tries to get away with some of this with his deploy-the-moose, look-at-me-being-a-brave-contrarian shtick.

No, there's one more thing to say. If you are, in fact, talking about Wonderment, I want to state for the record that I consider him the farthest thing from "deranged."

Unless, of course, you're just using this to mean "could not be more opposite to me in political views." In which case, I hope you would call me deranged, too.

You wingnut.

;^)
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 06-29-2008 at 03:22 PM..
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2008, 03:25 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: More Beutler

look:

Second that.
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2008, 11:45 PM
sovereignjohn sovereignjohn is offline
 
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Default Re: The Week in Blog: Obama vs. the Netroots

I think William Beutler should be required to move next to the depository for the nuclear waste wherever it is placed and then see if he thinks its a good idea. Just like neocons who think the Iraq police action is a good idea but don't sign up to serve in Iraq themselves I'm sure Mr. Beutler wouldn't live next to a atomic waste site.
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  #34  
Old 06-30-2008, 12:29 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

Greenwald:

Quote:
A new accusation is that I've been engaging in so-called "sock puppetry" by leaving comments in response to posts that attack me under other names., i.e., that I use multiple names to comment and the same comment was left at several blogs by the same IP address under different names.

Not frequently, I leave comments at blogs which criticize or respond to something I have written. I always, in every single instance, use my own name when doing so. I have never left a single comment at any other blog using any name other than my own, at least not since I began blogging. IP addresses signify the Internet account one uses, not any one individual. Those in the same household have the same IP address. In response to the personal attacks that have been oozing forth these last couple of weeks, others have left comments responding to them and correcting the factual inaccuracies, as have I. In each case when I did, I have used my own name.
It sounds to me like someone else in Greenwald's household posted on some of the same threads he did, like probably his boyfriend, who lives with him. Whatever the nature of wingnut suspicions, they certainly don't have any proof that Greenwald practiced sock puppetry. But that's never stopped them from making the accusation. Their point isn't to expose any truth, but to damage Greenwald with whatever they can throw at him, true or not.

Last edited by TwinSwords; 06-30-2008 at 01:19 AM..
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  #35  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:55 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

It never fails to impress me how hyperbole, hate and smears are not seen as such (to some people) when it's coming from someone they are politically aligned with.

While I disagree with many of your political opinions expressed here, I never had you pegged anywhere near the lower level rantings of Wonderment.

I did try to engage him once, when he was praising the Weather Underground. I posted links with quotes from former WU members saying that the violence and murder preached by W Aayers and Dorhn (these were people who praised the Manson murders remember) was actually detrimental to the antiwar movement. Wonderment ignored this 'engagement' other than taking the disingenuous position that while he praised the WU, he abhorred violence.....which was a cop-out. Even Bob fell for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BJKeeefe
If you are, in fact, talking about Wonderment, I want to state for the record that I consider him the farthest thing from "deranged."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJKeefe
Unless, of course, you're just using this to mean "could not be more opposite to me in political views." In which case, I hope you would call me deranged, too.
Let's look at his 'views' regarding Mickey:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment
Mickey's entire career as a Slate gossip columnist is based on racist innuendos, smears and sleaze.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment
The rest of his shtick is based on smearing public figures by pretending to know secrets about their sex life.
I can only suggest here that you take a look at Mickey's Slate columns. If in fact you do and come away agreeing that it consists entirely of 'racist innuendos, smears and sleaze'.....and the 'smearing' of 'public figures by pretending to know secrets about their sex life.'......if that's all you truly glean from Mickey's columns........then OK I will add you to the cast of Le Cirque De Deranged

$8p
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  #36  
Old 07-01-2008, 04:50 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

harkin:

Quote:
It never fails to impress me how hyperbole, hate and smears are not seen as such (to some people) when it's coming from someone they are politically aligned with.

[...]

I can only suggest here that you take a look at Mickey's Slate columns. If in fact you do and come away agreeing that it consists entirely of 'racist innuendos, smears and sleaze'.....and the 'smearing' of 'public figures by pretending to know secrets about their sex life.'......if that's all you truly glean from Mickey's columns........then OK I will add you to the cast of Le Cirque De Deranged
If you're going to equate hyperbole in a comments forum with hate and smears, then you've condemned a million percent!!! ... uh ... probably well more than half of everyone registered on this site.

I don't want to continue arguing specifically about another commenter, lest I provoke you into saying additional hurtful things.

I will say this: I used to read kausfiles regularly, and since long before BH.tv existed. Then I made the effort to read kausfiles. Then I felt a sense of duty to read kausfiles, and did so whenever I could summon the energy. Now I only look at it once in a great while, say, if the front page of Slate has a post title that catches my eye, or if someone on another site links to him.

I would not say that every Mickey post is nothing more that racism, innuendo, or unsubstantiated rumor-mongering about the sex lives of Democratic politicians. Of course not. But there is enough of this sort of stuff to make that charge merely an exaggeration for effect.

It is also my belief that Mickey frequently adds to the credibility of this charge with the things that he says here on BH.tv. Again, are these things all he talks about? Obviously not. But too much of what comes out of his mouth, just as with his keyboard, revolves around these repeated themes.

More generally, I find kausfiles too often to have the flavor of being phoned in. I don't find very much incisive thought, especially compared to the too many other blogs out there -- all across the political spectrum -- that I wish I had the time to keep up with. Too much of his blogging comes across as contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism. I also find that Mickey doesn't do a very good job in assessing the credibility of his sources or link targets, or if he does, he fails to communicate those assessments in his posts. I often feel as though he keeps his job, in part, because of his name and history. He reminds me, at times, of the worst sort of tenured professor.

Finally, to repeat a familiar complaint, I am bothered by his preference for dissing Democrats and avoiding comment on Republicans' foibles, while simultaneously protesting that he is a donkey in good standing. He's free to hold whatever political views he wants, but it's hard to get past this ongoing contradiction -- I cannot help but be bothered by the apparent hypocrisy.

Now, I grant that it's possible that once I started thinking these things, I tipped over into a state of noticing only those things that bothered me. I will also state that he does say some interesting things here on BH.tv, and that I mostly like his personality, especially his sense of humor. Even so, I don't think it shows a loss of mind to say that kausfiles doesn't appeal to me, and I certainly don't think it's deranged to point to specific shortcomings that appear chronic.

Quote:
$8p
This looks oddly familiar. I feel like I should know what it signifies. What does it mean to you?
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  #37  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:35 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

Quote:
He reminds me, at times, of the worst sort of tenured professor.
Or better yet, a member of the TEACHERS UNION. Mickey's favorite.

I was never a fan of Mickey before stumbling upon BHTV. I've checked out his blog several times since then and have been fairly unimpressed. His schtick works on BH with Bob but not so much in print. Ya know who's really good though...that whippersnapper, Ezra Klein!!
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  #38  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:41 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
I can only suggest here that you take a look at Mickey's Slate columns.
Um, they aren't "columns." They're blog posts, heavily laced with random italics and boldface. I'm sure sometime, somewhere, Mickey wrote an actual column, but it wasn't at Kausfiles.
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  #39  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:20 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
harkin:

If you're going to equate hyperbole in a comments forum with hate and smears, then you've condemned a million percent!!! ... uh ... probably well more than half of everyone registered on this site.
I have no idea what this sentence means but I congratulate you on your intensity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I don't want to continue arguing specifically about another commenter, lest I provoke you into saying additional hurtful things.
Perfect. I provide substance regarding my views regarding a poster and instead of countering with anything, you refuse to discuss it, even adding on the weak excuse of claiming I'm being 'hurtful'. I invite you to post anything I've said that remotely resembles the things Wonderment says about Kaus.....oh I forgot, if a liberal does it....it's called 'exaggeration for effect'. Oh comedy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I will say this: I used to read kausfiles regularly, and since long before BH.tv existed. Then I made the effort to read kausfiles. Then I felt a sense of duty to read kausfiles, and did so whenever I could summon the energy. Now I only look at it once in a great while, say, if the front page of Slate has a post title that catches my eye, or if someone on another site links to him.

I would not say that every Mickey post is nothing more that racism, innuendo, or unsubstantiated rumor-mongering about the sex lives of Democratic politicians. Of course not. But there is enough of this sort of stuff to make that charge merely an exaggeration for effect.
This is classic, you've agreed with someone who smears Kaus, refused to counter discuss that person under claim of some possible hurtful injury, then admitted that you barely even read Kaus any more. This sounds exactly like Olbermann's weak retort to Greenwald.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
..................He reminds me, at times, of the worst sort of tenured professor.

Finally, to repeat a familiar complaint, I am bothered by his preference for dissing Democrats and avoiding comment on Republicans' foibles, while simultaneously protesting that he is a donkey in good standing. He's free to hold whatever political views he wants, but it's hard to get past this ongoing contradiction -- I cannot help but be bothered by the apparent hypocrisy.

Now, I grant that it's possible that once I started thinking these things, I tipped over into a state of noticing only those things that bothered me. I will also state that he does say some interesting things here on BH.tv, and that I mostly like his personality, especially his sense of humor. Even so, I don't think it shows a loss of mind to say that kausfiles doesn't appeal to me, and I certainly don't think it's deranged to point to specific shortcomings that appear chronic.
You've performed the bait and switch. I called Wonderment deranged for his complete delusions regarding Kaus, and you turn that into my saying that not agreeing with Mickey is to be crazy. Nice.

I guess what you're saying then is that Mickey is a democrat who is unpatriotic to the democratic cause. To be a true democrat (one worth reading or listening to) one must adhere to the party line and only diss political opponents, one must never find fault with one's own party for that is to give aid and comfort to the enemies of..........

What were those things that people here say about Bush, Cheney and others??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
This looks oddly familiar. I feel like I should know what it signifies. What does it mean to you?
Keep looking, you'll see it

[and no....I didn't miss it....I do realize that a liberal has cast tenured professorship in a negative light....we always make some sort of progress!]
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  #40  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:45 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Greenwald's response to sock puppetry allegations

harkin:

I think we're arguing at cross purposes, so I'll let your reply stand.
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