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Old 12-27-2010, 09:31 PM
chrisn chrisn is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 57
Default Re: "In the name of Islam?"

Ocean,

A few responses:

Historically it has been almost always the case that people who have rebelled against an oppressive regime need to organize themselves outside that country

Indeed. We need to keep the topic on America, Muslims here, their and our rights etc.

But it's surely worth noting that the discussion is happening here, not there. Nearly every single Islamic country has non-representative governments and many have oppressive regimes. It's reasonable to wonder if Muslims won't bring that way of thinking here within Islam, and only by being forced to adapt as refugees from such regimes, to our laws, to our separation of powers, as minorities, are they having to change Islam. Does Islam itself need reform, and if so, why doesn't it come from within? That's worrying.

But enough about that. There's work to be done.

That's why all matters of freedom and state have to be secular. We can't go by this or that religion. That's one of the most basic principles since this country was founded.

Perhaps state, but definitely not always freedom. Banishing religion was the goal in Communist Russia in the wake of Hegelian absolute idealism via Marx via Lenin via the Revolution. It resulted in the deaths of many millions of people.

It's off-topic, but we differ here and I just want to quickly articulate why:

I don't find the arguments for granting freedom of the individual to be wholly separable from claims of faith, religious ideals, nor the religious protections granted by the Constitution. I very much want church and State separate, but there are other things to be wary of:

The secular claims and idealism of post-Enlightenment thinking...as well keeping the spirit of theory out of politics as much as possible, absolute egalitarianism, gender egalitarians and perhaps even humanists...in check, which...as noted...all pose their own unique dangers to the freedoms Muslims are coming here to prosper under as well

If I go on any longer I will clearly just go further off-topic.

Thank you for the discussion, and your time.
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