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Old 12-27-2010, 03:09 PM
chrisn chrisn is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 57
Default Re: "In the name of Islam?"

Are you going to use rational discourse to dispel misinformation or are you going to use it to support irrational fears?

A false choice. Not all fear is irrational. It's quite rational to be afraid of posting drawings of Mohammed online and being the target of people acting irrationally in Yemen who could kill me. It's also quite rational to note the disturbing trend of Muslims (a very small percentage) within and outside of America who want to kill us. There are many reasons for this, some of them have to do with the ignorance we are discussing. but ignorance is a two-way street, and it's not just from the U.S.

It may not be wise to antagonize and incite Muslims (and this was the intent in Amsterdam and a poke in the eye of not fully integrated Muslims there), but it is a logical conclusion some will follow to its end; it flows from freedom of speech. Some people, in the name of Islam, killed people over drawings, people who exercised their free speech to draw what they pleased. The intent behind the drawings may have been cruel, but when is murder ever ok in your book?

Be as consistent as you are in standing up for women's rights in Islamic Countries and be prepared to deal with the consequences. Doing what's right won't just always lead to peace. There's fear, and it's not just American fear.

"There's no opposition between progressivism and economic liberty or economic prosperity."

I highly disagree. But I will take your point that it's not central to the matter at hand.

But your criteria for consistency is that I discuss the faith claims of Islam. That's not the topic today, and that's why I'm not discussing them.

We are discussing freedom of religion and worship in the United States, and those freedoms that Muslims here as citizens have and that I want to help them exercise. These freedoms will eventually run against faith (some of our deepest debates in the U.S. regard this matter). Mostly, Muslims are free to do so (Park 51 is an example of the few Mosques that have not been built where Muslims wanted, and it's worthy of debate)).

Like you, and unlike many it seems, I think I have a duty to discuss these issues and generally to learn and be tolerant and inclusive of my fellow citizens and the trials they face. I learn about their religion and visit Mosques and help some Muslim men and women with court documents, how our system works (and to be less rhetorically dramatic) in front of a judge. I've developed a deep respect for much in Islam.

I truly don't know what your point is here. Therefore I can't respond to it.

My point is: the space Mona is opening is a space that is only open in Western Countries to talk about feminism and gay rights. It is also highly dependent upon the tolerance of freedom of speech. That tolerance is in direct contradiction with some in the Islamic world and their claims to faith. It's also a very new idea to many Muslims when they come here.

Go and open up that space in Karachi and tell me how it goes. Faith claims will be pretty damned important all of a sudden. So will culture, mores, poverty, Western influence, law, etc.

Tolerance doesn't always mean agreement, nor that others will be as tolerant, nor in some extreme cases, that they won't kill, or threaten to kill, you. It's not irrational to discuss that at all.
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