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  #1  
Old 01-23-2008, 11:07 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Could Things Get Any Worse?

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  #2  
Old 01-23-2008, 12:34 PM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

That North Korea discussion was one of the most dazzling displays of Weekly Standard Operating Procedure for Message Discipline I have ever seen. No matter how hard Blake tried to distract Michael from his talking-point and trap him in discussion, deploying devious tricks such as "questions", "hypotheticals" and "alternatives", Michael's steely resolve proved impervious: "Nothing could be worse than it is today." "Nothing." "Nothing." If it weren't for BHTV's visual component, one might have thought Michael actually had his fingers in his ears and was just chanting the mantra over and over.

Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 01-23-2008 at 01:03 PM..
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2008, 12:52 PM
ohcomeon ohcomeon is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

So true. I kept thinking that those guys at the Weekly Standard don't have much imagination.
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2008, 01:29 PM
Joel_Cairo Joel_Cairo is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I dunno about that ohcomeon. After the Iraq War, maintaining that your "when in doubt, start more wars" model still holds water would seem to require quite an active imagination indeed.

Last edited by Joel_Cairo; 01-23-2008 at 01:48 PM..
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  #5  
Old 01-23-2008, 02:19 PM
jjb jjb is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I think you're both being unfair. Whatever the Weekly Standard line may be, nowhere does Goldfarb suggest that "start more wars" is the answer in North Korea. He acknowledges that a unified Korea would be a better outcome than Chinese control of North Korea. He just thinks that either outcome would be better than the current situation. I have a hard time disagreeing.
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  #6  
Old 01-23-2008, 02:49 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I found Michael's callous disregard of the humanitarian consequences (of telling North Korea to take a hike) astounding.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-2008, 03:56 PM
jjb jjb is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

What about the humanitarian consequences of continuing to prop up the North Korean regime?
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  #8  
Old 01-23-2008, 04:42 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Goldfarb's smirk is worse

Quote:
I found Michael's callous disregard of the humanitarian consequences (of telling North Korea to take a hike) astounding.
Me too.

He argued for denying North Korea "food aid or fuel," quipping, "Let nature take its course."

When Blake says the result could be "massive refugee flows, chaos, and thousands of people dead," Goldfarb responds with the same sadistic smirk, "How could that be worse?"
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2008, 05:40 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I would hope that you and all the others that comment on how callous and inhuman Mr Goldfarb's attitude towards the NKs will carry over into your thought patterns when you argue that we should abandon Iraq. Some how you both seem to sound the same the only difference I can see is the part of the world you are willing to see people suffer and butchered in!
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:00 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
I would hope that you and all the others that comment on how callous and inhuman Mr Goldfarb's attitude towards the NKs will carry over into your thought patterns when you argue that we should abandon Iraq. Some how you both seem to sound the same the only difference I can see is the part of the world you are willing to see people suffer and butchered in!
You make a fair point. Now that the US government's has destroyed Iraq with shock, awe, slaughter of civilians, torture and every other kind of humanitarian and human rights disaster imaginable, it is important to ask how we can prevent things from getting worse. It is not acceptable to assume Goldfarb's position on NK of "Fuck it. Bring it on! Thousands of corpses? Who cares? They'll thank us someday."

But I haven't heard anyone say that. Who has said Iraqi refugees don't matter? Who has said, pull out the troops and let the chips fall where they may? On the contrary, everyone realizes withdrawal won't be easy. The criminal masterminds of the Iraq War have left us with a terrible burden and all the responsibility that they so cavalierly disdained.
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:11 PM
red red is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Goldfarb's saying we should change up our approach in North Korea because nothing -- not even a mass refugee exodus, with its attendant chaos and the potential for mass deaths and Chinese annexation -- could be worse, from a humanitarian perspective, than the continuation of the current concentration camp state, which has already killed millions.

If I heard right, Hounsell's arguing that the People's Liberation Army standing 30 miles from Seoul would be worse.

And Goldfarb's the one displaying callous disregard for humanitarian considerations?
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:35 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
You make a fair point. Now that the US government's has destroyed Iraq with shock, awe, slaughter of civilians, torture and every other kind of humanitarian and human rights disaster imaginable, it is important to ask how we can prevent things from getting worse. It is not acceptable to assume Goldfarb's position on NK of "Fuck it. Bring it on! Thousands of corpses? Who cares? They'll thank us someday."

But I haven't heard anyone say that. Who has said Iraqi refugees don't matter? Who has said, pull out the troops and let the chips fall where they may? On the contrary, everyone realizes withdrawal won't be easy. The criminal masterminds of the Iraq War have left us with a terrible burden and all the responsibility that they so cavalierly disdained.
Bravo, well said. And to your points I would add:

A lot of people, quite reasonably, believe that the US presence in Iraq is making matters worse, and that the best way to stop the violence in Iraq would by leaving. Is this actually true? I don't know. But it's perfectly reasonable to believe that people will fight us when we occupy their country and steal their resources. (Whether piscivorous thinks we are "occupying" Iraq or "stealing" its resources is irrelevant, because Iraqis do believe that, and they will act on their own beliefs, not William Kristol's.)

This reminds me of the words of a lowly Confederate soldier captured during the Civil War. He didn't own any slaves, he didn't care about the Constitution. So they asked him why he was fighting for the Confederacy. His answer? "Because you're down here."

People don't like it when you occupy their homeland. If Saudi Arabia occupied Piscivorous's hometown next week and set up check points at all the intersections, how long would it be before Piscivorous picked up a rifle and became an insurgent? No, not insurgent. "Terrorist." Not long at all.

Isn't it funny that piscivorous, who (I presume) was an enthusiastic proponent of the invasion and destruction of Iraq is now lecturing us on concern for the well-being of Iraqis? How did that happen? How does the guy who set the fire get to warn us against burning people?
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:39 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by red View Post
the current concentration camp state, which has already killed millions.
We can't deny it's a concentration camp, and that it should end as rapidly as it can be ended. But regimes become dangerous when they are destabilized. This is a nuclear power. If they become desperate for resources, they might do crazy things. We need to bring them into the community of nations -- even if it's difficult. Not drive them into a corner and see what starvation does to them.

Last edited by TwinSwords; 01-23-2008 at 06:49 PM..
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:49 PM
jjb jjb is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Twinswords:
You make fair points. I don't think it's clear whether instability in North korea would be worse than the current state, but I acknowledge that's a reasonable possibility. But a substantive disagreement about the best course in a bad situation is different from saying that Goldfarb is being callous or disregarding humintatiran concerns. Whether one agrees with him or not, it seems to me that humanitrian concerns are his chief consideration.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:50 PM
jjb jjb is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Exactly, Hounshell's basing his argument solely on his view of American interest. Goldfarb's at least considering humanitarian consequences.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:59 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjb View Post
Twinswords:
You make fair points. I don't think it's clear whether instability in North Korea would be worse than the current state, but I acknowledge that's a reasonable possibility. But a substantive disagreement about the best course in a bad situation is different from saying that Goldfarb is being callous or disregarding humanitarian concerns. Whether one agrees with him or not, it seems to me that humanitarian concerns are his chief consideration.
Sure, I agree with that. There's just something about the smug demeanor, and it's a common trait among Goldfarb's crowd. I think the Goldfarb's and Kristol's of the world literally never visualize the consequences of their proposals. They never stop to think how carrying your children and your belongings on your back for days through the snow-covered mountains while your fellow refugees drop dead around you is actually still worse than subsisting on rations. And even if you put that image directly into Goldfarb's head, I still don't get any sense he would care, or feel the least bit of human compassion. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, and maybe I'm blaming him for the callousness displayed by other neocons. I'll grant those possibilities.

Furthermore, sometimes an apparently inhumane policy is actually more humane. Heart surgery is no day at the park, but it beats cardiac arrest.

General George McClellan was famously reluctant to shed his men's blood in battle during the Civil War, and the result was MORE death, not less. It was the aggressive action of Generals Grant and Sherman that spilled a lot of blood in a short time but ended the war and allowed life to return to normal, sparing more lives than it cost. It's beyond my abilities to know what is the right answer in North Korea, but I will agree that Goldfarb's shock treatment could be the better answer. It's just that if you're proposing a shock treatment that could become a humanitarian disaster costing thousands of lives, you should show a little seriousness and regard for consequences when you propose it.

Instead, too often, the neocons appear to succeed by signaling their callousness and indifference to the suffering of others. If neocons could at least fake some compassion, it might help them sell their policies the the people who do have hearts.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2008, 07:47 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Isn't it funny that piscivorous, who (I presume) was an enthusiastic proponent of the invasion and destruction of Iraq is now lecturing us on concern for the well-being of Iraqis? How did that happen? How does the guy who set the fire get to warn us against burning people?
Cognitive dissonance. Goldfarb also managed to blame the victims of the bombing in the Israeli invasion of Syria. The maniacal John Bolton was his point of reference. It made perfect sense to Goldfarb/Bolton to demand an explanation from Syria and North Korea, the assumption being that if Israel bombs the shit out of you, you must be doing something inherently evil.

The logic: We (and our surrogates) are the good guys. Good guys do only good stuff. Therefore, all the stuff we do is good.
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2008, 07:52 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

No I would have fought them on the beach as the old Indian said "today is a good day to die" and the beach would be better than most places. I can't think of the old Indians name or provide the context but I sounds something that and Indian would say. As far as destroyed Iraq perhaps you should look at some pictures of what most of the major and mid sized German cites looked like after WWII. You may actually understand what that word really means after that. Or perhaps it would help you understand if you did a search for "Iraq Mass Graves" or "Iraq Kurd Gas Attack" and you then might come to a better understanding of the meaning of how humanitarian acts; except for your BDS you might too be able to see that liberating the Iraqi population was a humanitarian act. I guess it is all relative sitting in front of your computer safe and sound in your own little fantasy world.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2008, 08:16 PM
ohcomeon ohcomeon is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I really don't believe that the German war machine marching across Europe in an attempt to take over the world compares to what was going on in pre-war Iraq. No one on this thread has argued for no war under any circumstances. The argument about Iraq is whether or not the destruction we have caused and continue to cause in Iraq is worth the benefit to mankind. Most people in the world and even the US probably feel it wasn't.

Last edited by ohcomeon; 01-23-2008 at 08:18 PM..
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2008, 08:25 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

I am now way equating the two only commenting on what the nature of destruction looks like when it comes to war. If such hyperbole was not used there would be no reason to have to remind anyone of the difference.
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  #21  
Old 01-23-2008, 09:43 PM
samuelsd samuelsd is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
Or perhaps it would help you understand if you did a search for "Iraq Mass Graves" or "Iraq Kurd Gas Attack" and you then might come to a better understanding of the meaning of how humanitarian acts; except for your BDS you might too be able to see that liberating the Iraqi population was a humanitarian act. I guess it is all relative sitting in front of your computer safe and sound in your own little fantasy world.
Piscivorous,

That's a totally reasonable argument. I wish it was one we could have had prior to the invasion of Iraq. Instead, we had wild goose chases after barely-existent WMD's (refer back to Bob and Mickey's old discussions of 2 years back about chemical weapons and anthrax, and whether they even count as WMD's, before responding here), and constant intentionally misleading references to Iraq and al Qaeda from the VP's office.

However, hopefully you are not saying that our actions in Mesopotamia have been an unqualified good, for us or the Iraqis. That would be simply untrue. Of course they have had good effects. In my opinion, the bad outweighed the good, but I can see possible alternative weightings. It's not an unarguable 'humanitarian act' if more bad things than good happened.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2008, 10:12 PM
jmcnulty jmcnulty is offline
 
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Default Response to piscivorous:

Why is it that in iraq we condemn the Bush administration for being "unrealistic" and that we should pull out "whatever the consequences," but in North Korea we have to be concerned with "humanitarian" effects, not national interest or the "realism" of letting the chips fall where they may. I guess the North Kirean regime has been somehow put on welfare, a permanent ward of the government. The more they refuse the cooperate, the more we are obligated to ship them food and fuel. I guess our rule that "realism" and naked national interest must rule all considerations only applies to Iraq, where the Left is bound and determined upon withdrawal and defeat. Maybe we should ship food and scrap metal to Gaza. They can eat the food and use the scrap metal to cure their "rocket shortage."
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Glaurunge Glaurunge is offline
 
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Default So Iran Is Going to Conquer Eastern Europe?

It seems like Goldfarb's whole reason for bringing up the missile "defence" program is to propagate the notion that Iran poses a "threat" to anyone. His arguement takes as a given that Iran is either going to or has plans to conquer Eastern Europe. Does he have any basis for saying that?

Iran has a third-rate military and they couldn't even defeat Iraq back in the 80's. How then can they even hope to over run Eastern Europe? It sounds like Iran is about as much of a threat to Europe as Iraq was to the US before the invasion. This is just absurd.
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  #24  
Old 01-23-2008, 10:28 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Response to piscivorous:

One of your most charming qualities, McNulty, is your belief that you are clever. I can see you sitting there smiling at your own wit when you write "their rocket shortage."
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2008, 10:54 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

You know it is about time you people that continually cry about we were told this and that and what ever and accept the reality of the fact is that we are there, we removed the evil SOB, and that we now need to spend the time money and lives necessary to bring a reasonable calm to Iraq irregardless of what reasons were given.

There is a song by the Eagles, from a few years ago titled "Get Over It." Or one could say grow up.
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  #26  
Old 01-24-2008, 01:03 AM
David_PA David_PA is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

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Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
You know it is about time you people that continually cry about we were told this and that and what ever and accept the reality of the fact is that we are there, we removed the evil SOB, and that we now need to spend the time money and lives necessary to bring a reasonable calm to Iraq irregardless of what reasons were given.

There is a song by the Eagles, from a few years ago titled "Get Over It." Or one could say grow up.
What if the reality is that there's a hotbed elsewhere like Afghanistan or Pakistan and our troops are needed there? What if the reality is that it's no more calm in Iraq 5 years from now? What if the reality is that it's worse in Iraq 5 years from now?

The actual reality (if you're strong enough to take it piscivorous) is that the open-ended commitment to Iraq that Bush & Co. want is a CYA thing. It's not about morality, or security, or what's right for the region. It's that Bush & Co. hope and pray (probably more praying) that troops someday help Iraq really calm down so they won't look like the idiots 5 years from now that they are in they eyes of the world today.

People who think like you, piscivorous, are the ones who need to get over it. Iraq was a big screw up. Plenty of time and money has been poured into trying to fix it. Enough's enough - get over it and get out.

Last edited by David_PA; 01-24-2008 at 01:09 AM..
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  #27  
Old 01-24-2008, 02:17 AM
samuelsd samuelsd is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
You know it is about time you people that continually cry about we were told this and that and what ever and accept the reality of the fact is that we are there, we removed the evil SOB, and that we now need to spend the time money and lives necessary to bring a reasonable calm to Iraq irregardless of what reasons were given.

There is a song by the Eagles, from a few years ago titled "Get Over It." Or one could say grow up.
Piscivorous,

Really? "Get Over It" is the best you can offer?

Nothing personal, but I expected better from you. Of course we are there, and of course we have to do whatever we can to make the best of a bad situation. Nobody is arguing that, although there are many good-faith arguments which can be made about what difference we can make, and how best to go about it. It appears to be hard for you to imagine this, but many liberals actually want to make the best of the clusterf*** that the Bush administration allowed to happen in Iraq, too. We just have different ideas about what might bring it about.

But, if I recall correctly, this topic came up in the context of what to do vis-a-vis North Korea. Now, it doesn't seem entirely irrelevant to that discussion to talk about how we got into Iraq, and whether or not the reasons given were legitimate, or proffered in good faith. Yes? In light of today's study documenting over 900 false statements made by Bush administration officials in the 2 years leading up to Iraq, this seems very relevant to me. Unless, of course, you are arguing that the ends justified the means when it came to Iraq, in which case I assume that the same course of action is called for in North Korea as well...
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  #28  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:04 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

You must be related to Karnack if you think that the future is reality. The future is determined by the events and actions we take today. If you think that there are no effects of the US giving it's word to a country and then abandoning those same people then your reality is no more sound than than Karnack's musings.

Until the Iraqis can stand on there own, providing security to there population from both internal and external threats we will be there. I don't care who is elected president we will be in Iraq for quite some time; the area is just to important to the economic stability of the world. There are only two choices in the real world we currently live in. We are there, in sufficient strength, to direct development in a positive direction or there with strength of force that is sufficient only to react in a retaliative manner. I prefer the former you obviously prefer the latter.

I would wager that if one was to keep a ledger of places in the world we paid the price of staying, to influence and direct, on the left side verse those where we cut and ran one the right; on the basis of an unbiased assessment of which turned out for the better, in the long march of American overseas involvement, the left would show considerably better results than the right side of the ledger.

While I wish that humankind had advanced to the point of development that brute force were no longer required, much of the West and developed world has reached this state of enlightenment but much of the underdeveloped world and the developing world has not reached this state. Unfortunately we will have to deal with this part of the world in the terms and actions that they understand and respect and at this point in time that means by force of arms and to a certain extent forced development in the right direction. Just ask the Germans and the Japanese.

But since you prefer the latter if I were King I would appoint you as ambassador at larg to conduct negotiations with AQI and their ilk; give you sufficient staff of like minded individuals and set you down in Diyala Provence with the best of wishes for success. I'm pretty sure what the results of those negotiations would be and even more sure that the results wouldn't look anything thing like the results we have achieved in Al-Anbar province. But hey maybe I'm wrong and your sweet rhetoric and obvious powers of persuasion will accomplish the miraculous of moving them from a 7th century frame of thought to one a 22nd century frame in the matter of minutes. If that happens I may need to reconsider the possibility of a Supreme Being and the reincarnation of Jesus has actually occurred.

Baring that I prefer to kill them where ever and whenever we can get them to try and make a stand and currently that is Iraq as well as Afghanistan.

Last edited by piscivorous; 01-24-2008 at 03:12 AM..
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  #29  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:07 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Oh you mean the George Soros funded report. I've already looked at it and it is about what I expect from and organization that was essentially setup by George and still draws much of it's funding from him.
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  #30  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:16 AM
David_PA David_PA is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Piscivorous, you are so deluded it's pointless to discuss this with you.

Next time you write a rambling missive could you try to at least write "too" instead of "to" when you mean also; and "their" instead of "there" when you want the possessive pronoun.

I'm thinking ... piscivorous ... hmm ... can't write too well, can't think too well.
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  #31  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:28 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

AS far as North Korea goes I would ask you two questions. How many artillery pieces does the North have within the range of Seoul? The last estimate I saw was about 20,000. Each capable of firing 3-4 shells per minute each shell caring some 10-50 pounds of high explosive. How many minutes would it take for the North to deliver the equivalent HE payload of say the Nagasaki atomic bomb?

Answer the second and you will see that military action against the North was never and is still not a viable option so Goldfarb's rantings were less than impressive.

Last edited by piscivorous; 01-24-2008 at 03:41 AM..
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  #32  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:30 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Sorry for offending your grammatical sensibilities but hey if you can't counter the arguments attack the individual. I mean it works for the Clintons.
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  #33  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:42 AM
David_PA David_PA is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

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Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
Sorry for offending your grammatical sensibilities but hey if you can't counter the arguments attack the individual. I mean it works for the Clintons.
You didn't offend - you detracted from your argument. I wasn't attacking you personally, I was pointing out that you weren't careful enough in your expression. And actually, the ad hominem is a favorite trick of the right. Rush Limbaugh lives for the personal attack.

It's actually you who didn't respond to my points, not the other way around. The real problem with Iraq is that all of our fighting force is tied up there. If there is a crisis in Afghanistan or Pakistan -a fairly likely scenario - that requires US troops, we need to send them there.

Should we take troops out of Iraq if that occurs? Of course.

Better, we start taking troops out of Iraq now so that we have a reserve in case of such a (real) emergency. The problem with Iraq is that we are spread too thin. If Iraq only required 10% of our fighting force, I might agree with you that we should remain.
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  #34  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:56 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Well let me address this one. What is the total force available to us. Between the Active army, Army Reserves, Nation Gaurd, Marines. Marine reserves, and the Ready Resevers. Exclude the Air Force, and Navy Personnel that are deployed in support positions. I think if you do the math you will find that if are using 10% of the forces available to us it would surprise me.
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  #35  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:59 AM
David_PA David_PA is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

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Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
Well let me address this one. What is the total force available to us. Between the Active army, Army Reserves, Nation Gaurd, Marines. Marine reserves, and the Ready Resevers. Exclude the Air Force, and Navy Personnel that are deployed in support positions. I think if you do the math you will find that if are using 10% of the forces available to us it would surprise me.
I said 10% of our fighting force not of the active force. About 80% - 90% of the fighting force is in Iraq.
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  #36  
Old 01-24-2008, 04:00 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

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Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
Oh you mean the George Soros funded report. I've already looked at it and it is about what I expect from and organization that was essentially setup by George and still draws much of it's funding from him.
pisc:

The MSNBC article says that two organizations compiled that database of Bush Administration falsehoods: the Center for Public Integrity and The Fund for Independence in Journalism. I've looked at the donor pages for CPI and TFIJ, and I didn't see the name "Soros" on either. Could you please explain why you say this is a "George Soros funded report?"

By the way, for those interested in the report itself, the start page on the CPI site is here: http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/
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Brendan
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  #37  
Old 01-24-2008, 04:05 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

One of which is a funded subsidiary of the other. How convenient.
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  #38  
Old 01-24-2008, 04:08 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Location: Heartland Conservative
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Piscivorous,

Is it true that you can't attack the facts, and therefore attack the source?

Last edited by TwinSwords; 01-24-2008 at 04:14 AM..
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  #39  
Old 01-24-2008, 04:16 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Because Soros was involved in the creation of Center for Public Integrity and is still funding them. Fund for Independence in Journalism was initially set up by guess who .... Center for Public Integrity. Its the old Mafia and Corporate shell game. And besides two "independent" organizations looks sooooo much more authoritative than one. No!
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  #40  
Old 01-24-2008, 04:21 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Location: Heartland Conservative
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Default Re: Goldfarb has earned a biscuit

Pisc,
Would it be fair to characterize your position this way:

"I can dismiss the facts, because I don't like the people reporting them."

Is that about where you stand?
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