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  #1  
Old 12-19-2007, 01:02 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Holiday-Mentioning Edition

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  #2  
Old 12-19-2007, 02:10 PM
threep threep is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Hell yeah guys. Stick it to Bob Wright, corporate overlord.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2007, 02:49 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default decimate

In response to Byron's request:

Decimate originally meant kill one in ten, and quickly broadened to mean reduce by one-tenth. Language mavens wring their hands when decimate is used as a synonym for, say, devastate, but they're losing that battle. My father is one such maven, and by coincidence, he recently handed me a clipping. I interpreted this gesture as a plea of nolo contendre, if not an indication of surrender.

Here's the online version of the same article, written by Jan Freeman: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ide.../when_in_rome/

It's well worth a read, if you like wordplay.

Those familiar with my usual prickliness about language might well wonder where I stand on this one. I would say that, even before reading Freeman's piece, using the word in the extended sense did not bother me nearly as much as, say, hearing differential instead of difference. As Freeman points out, there isn't likely to be much occasion to use the word only in its strict sense. So, I don't jump all over people who bandy the word about.

However, since the word did have a precise meaning at one time, and since there are plenty of good alternatives, I don't use decimate in the looser sense.

Except, of course, when I want to piss off my father.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 12-19-2007 at 03:04 PM..
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2007, 03:29 PM
threep threep is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

When a unit in the Roman legions disgraced itself, they'd pick at random and kill every tenth soldier. God I love the Romans.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:00 PM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

It's a fucking disgrace! Paul and Byron are forced to tell us slow children which "Crossfire" seats they're sitting in, while Paul fails to make the most relevant disclosure: his history as a Bill Clinton speechwriter. This seems kinda' relevant when he downplays the Hillary Clinton campaign's attempt to conjure an image of Barack Obama dealing drugs in the 3rd grade of a madrassa to raise money for his eventual presidential campaign and possibly jihad.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:10 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

kidneystones:

Quote:
Consider Paul's insane suggestion that electing a new face is going to change perceptions of America around the world. Does Paul think the world that naive? Americans are in love with the idea that the individual they elect is recognized around the world as President. Wrong.
I don't agree with you on this one. The president may not be the only thing people around the world think of when they think of the US, but he (or she) is certainly a big part of the image. If this weren't so, presidents wouldn't spend so much time running around to do photo ops in other countries. As a negative example, you have only to look back at the past few years' worth of international newspapers to see a million references to Bush as cowboy. Or worse. As another example, I say to you "Russia" and I bet you think of Putin. I strongly believe Obama would put a good face on America, and this would be non-trivial in effect.

Just as many Americans have always applauded or criticized the president for a myriad of things that were mostly or entirely out of his control, plenty of people around the world think the president is responsible for every last action on the foreign policy front. It's human nature to place a single face on a group, whether that group is a friend or foe.
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:11 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Namazu:

Paul did mention that he was a speechwriter for Bill Clinton in this very diavlog. Are you saying he should have said it in the intro? I thought it was more useful in context, when he did say it.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Brendan:
I missed it. Thanks for the catch. I'd still be happier if the bhtv overlords let us figure out how lefty, righty, or othery the guests and their respective magazines are for ourselves.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:40 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Namazu:

I agree -- that nonsense during the intro was painful, even as I recognized that Paul and Byron were mocking the policy. I hate being spoon-fed, and I don't like pigeon-holing or overly simplistic "left vs. right" debates, either.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:45 PM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default It's the Fed, Stupid

After the Internet bubble burst, the Fed dramatically lowered rates, inflating the value of real and financial assets. Lower mortgage rates made houses more affordable and upward price momentum fed on itself. At the same time, stable economic conditions and lower bond yields caused fixed-income players across the globe to "reach for yield," compressing risk premiums and creating a vast market for securities derived from subprime mortgages. Several regulatory reforms seem wise and obvious in retrospect, and regulation could have certainly prevented the absurd no-doc/lo-doc/fraudulent mortgages written in 2005-6, but they merely represent the tip of the iceberg, namely a classic speculative bubble abetted by loose monetary policy.
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:56 PM
jmcnulty jmcnulty is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Consider the following: First, Hillary's internal polling may be showing that Obama is going up and Hillary is going down so much that Edwards may finish second and Hillary third, so whereas it made sense to bring Obama down in favor of Edwards winning, it is not possible to "spin" a third-place finish. The attempts to bring Obama down (the kindergarten "essay,"); his inexperience ("rolling the dice. . ."); even the Muslim card ("You know, he really did go to a madrassa, but that was a GOOD thing.") have not only failed to work but have backfired. If you can't take Obama down, the next best thing is to take Edwards down because (1) the scandal is waiting there, ready to be used; and (2) a third-place will lead to a sting of stories along the lines of "Hillary's Mask of Inevitability Falls." Bill Clinton last week even offered the ridiculous idea that Hillary did even plan to run in Iowa and had to be forced against her will to do so ("Hey, second place is pretty good when you didn't plan to compete there anyway."). Next, who owns "The National Enquirer"? Clinton's friend and business partner, Ron Burkle. Deniability was set up with the Clinton campaign spreading the rumor that Bill and Ron Burkle had had a "falling out." Nothing involving Hillary happens by accident, especially two weeks before the caucuses. This is Hillary preemption and recognition that Obama cannot be beaten there, so the next best thing is to try to take the sheen off his victory. Ergo, if Edwards cannot be promoted to first place, he must be destroyed. The only way Hillary can finish second is to wipe out, if possible, anyone who stands in her way. She is playing for keeps and realizes that is all slipping away. I predict that is she loses the nomination to Obama, she will quickly divorce Bill since he will have outlived his usefulness to her. Meanwhile, I would advise Obama to hire a food taster. Expect to see someone from Indonesia to appear and say that they DID go to a Madrassa and that Obama was ESPECIALLY devout. Thus, he is either a secret Muslim (practicing "taqiyya," or lying to the infidels) or a Muslim apostate, who is now a Christian. Is his election likely to be a "Manchurian Candidate" senario or likely needlessly to outrage the Muslim world? Bob Kerry even mentioned the "Manchurian Candidate" (of course, saying that the situation does NOT apply, but then again, why suggest it to people and get them thinking about it?) Whether the charges can be proved or not is immaterial. The important thing is to get the blogs and internet humming below the media radar screen and to force him to "deny" it, so it appears on the media as a denial and everyone is talking about it. It will not work. The media has decided to "turn the page" and move beyond the fights of the Nineties.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2007, 07:54 PM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Muslim background a positive?

Among devout Muslims, isn't being a convert from Islam worse than being a Christian (or other infidiel) from birth? This is my understanding. The Muslim world is more likely to see Obama more as a traitor than as a friend.

It's also sort of strange for a liberal to pimp Obama's "Muslim background" as a positive when the official talking point is that all that Muslim talk is a rightwing smear. Well, which is it?
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2007, 08:05 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans gruber View Post
the official talking point is that all that Muslim talk is a rightwing smear.
I think you probably don't need me to tell you that this is a gross mischaracterization. Has anyone actually said that all Muslim talk is a right-wing smear? Can you cite something for that?

I think what you mean is that it's unfair that liberals can speak positively about Obama's distant and tangential connection to Islam, but conservatives are criticized when they try to speak negatively about the same.

It reminds me, in a way, of the right-wing complaint that white are victims of an unfair double-standard because blacks can use the N word, but whites cannot. My first question in that case would be, "why do you want to call black people the N word?"

And my question for you is similar: What is it you wanted to say about Islam, or Obama, that you feel you cannot without being accussed of smearing him? Can you be specific about how the liberal double-standard or hypocrisy has limited your own (or conservatives') freedom to express themselves?
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2007, 08:10 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
In response to Byron's request:

Decimate originally meant kill one in ten, and quickly broadened to mean reduce by one-tenth. Language mavens wring their hands when decimate is used as a synonym for, say, devastate, but they're losing that battle. My father is one such maven, and by coincidence, he recently handed me a clipping. I interpreted this gesture as a plea of nolo contendre, if not an indication of surrender.

Here's the online version of the same article, written by Jan Freeman: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ide.../when_in_rome/

It's well worth a read, if you like wordplay.

Those familiar with my usual prickliness about language might well wonder where I stand on this one. I would say that, even before reading Freeman's piece, using the word in the extended sense did not bother me nearly as much as, say, hearing differential instead of difference. As Freeman points out, there isn't likely to be much occasion to use the word only in its strict sense. So, I don't jump all over people who bandy the word about.

However, since the word did have a precise meaning at one time, and since there are plenty of good alternatives, I don't use decimate in the looser sense.

Except, of course, when I want to piss off my father.
Interesting conversation. One that has always bugged me is people who say "usage" instead of "use." The engineering world seems heavily populated with such types.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:07 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

kidneystone:

Well argued.

Still, I'd point out that Obama offers other things besides being black. He's clearly a new face, for one -- not part of the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton dynasty. He's on the record as opposing the war, unambiguously, from before its start, for another. He's an inspiring speaker and has been putting forth a message of inclusiveness since he hit public life. He's likable both on stage and in close encounters, from almost all accounts.

You're right that it will take a lot more than just his image to bring about meaningful change. But I maintain that his image is not nothing, and it'd be a great first step.
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:15 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

jmcnulty:

Wow. Clinton-hatred at its finest, but also some decent reasoning.

Thanks for issuing clear predictions. It'll be fun to see how many pan out.

For the record: I don't think HRC will divorce Bill. Even if their marriage is nothing more than political expediency for her (something I don't believe), I'd think she'd see tomorrow as another day; e.g., running for president in 2012 or 2016 and going for Senate Majority Leader would remain open options.

I also think you're wrong about your Obama/Muslim predictions. I don't doubt that some on the right fringe will chant "Barack HUSSEIN Osama, oops, Obama" up till the election, and past it, should he win. But they tried this once already, and it really appeared to annoy everyone except a few who wouldn't vote Democratic in any case. And sure, some in the Muslim world will see him as an apostate, but again, I think this will be restricted to the radical fringe. I think mainstream Muslims will be just fine with him to start, just by virtue of him not being Bush or Bush-like, and I'm betting his policies will make them like him better.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 12-19-2007 at 09:34 PM..
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  #17  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:18 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

Twin:

Quote:
One that has always bugged me is people who say "usage" instead of "use." The engineering world seems heavily populated with such types.
As a noun, yes. As a verb, my pet peeve is utilize.

I agree, from my own experience, that there are some engineers who like to ramp up the pomposity with their word choices, but I think the sales and management types are more often guilty of this tendency.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:22 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Twin:

Very well said.

Hans's thoughts remind me of the Francisco Nava kerfuffle, especially the way right-wing bloviators hastened to make similar accusations. That whitewing victim mode is soooo old.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:39 PM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Quote:
I think you probably don't need me to tell you that this is a gross mischaracterization. Has anyone actually said that all Muslim talk is a right-wing smear? Can you cite something for that?
My sense is that a lot of lefty blogger types thought any accusation of a Muslim association was both false and a smear. I mean, look at the hysteria over the Madrassa story, which from what I can gather is more or less true--he attended a Muslim school. The left's spin was that it was just a school like any other, but that isn't really true. In his own book he wrote about making faces during "Koranic studies."

Quote:
I think what you mean is that it's unfair that liberals can speak positively about Obama's distant and tangential connection to Islam, but conservatives are criticized when they try to speak negatively about the same.
No, I am saying some on the left appear to be changing the facts to fit their spin. Minimizing his connections when they are scared it will scare away voters, while highlighting them when they think they can benefit from them. Which I suppose is to be expected but it's dishonest. That's the point.

Quote:
And my question for you is similar: What is it you wanted to say about Islam, or Obama, that you feel you cannot without being accussed of smearing him? Can you be specific about how the liberal double-standard or hypocrisy has limited your own (or conservatives') freedom to express themselves?
I do not feel constrained or cowed at all. I dislike Islam as theology and would be reluctant to vote for a believer of its tenets. I don't think Obama is Muslim or ever considered himself a believer, but I don't think it's a smear or a stretch to suggest he was for a brief time raised as a Muslim. I do not hold that against him in the least, but it's legitimate news. Of more concern is his mentor as an adult, the radical Christian minister, Reverend Wright.

Last edited by hans gruber; 12-19-2007 at 09:46 PM..
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:49 PM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

"Hans's thoughts remind me of the Francisco Nava kerfuffle, especially the way right-wing bloviators hastened to make similar accusations. That whitewing victim mode is soooo old."

It's not about being a victim, nothing in my post implied anything of the sort. It's about being dishonest about the underlying facts.
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  #21  
Old 12-19-2007, 10:19 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Hans:

Quote:
... I am saying some on the left appear to be changing the facts to fit their spin. Minimizing his connections when they are scared it will scare away voters, while highlighting them when they think they can benefit from them. Which I suppose is to be expected but it's dishonest. That's the point.
All right, I can accept that.

Welcome to politics in the real world.

When I have a spare thousand hours, I'll make a list of issues where some on the right employ a little selective emphasis (which may even creep into the realm of -- gasp -- dishonesty) for their own purposes.
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  #22  
Old 12-19-2007, 10:44 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I agree, from my own experience, that there are some engineers who like to ramp up the pomposity with their word choices
LOL, that is exactly the right term for it. Ramp up the pomposity. I'm laughing out loud, for real.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I think the sales and management types are more often guilty of this tendency.
Oh my God, I would have to agree. You just described one of the central features of my life. I manage a number of websites at a large, image-conscious corporation that has a very large Communications Department, and I do battle regularly with them about the kind of overblown, ultra-promotional marketing language they attempt to insert into every last page on the intranet.

They have NO IDEA how that kind of language drives away users. If they had their way, they'd turn the world into a brouchure.
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  #23  
Old 12-19-2007, 11:04 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans gruber View Post
My sense is that a lot of lefty blogger types thought any accusation of a Muslim association was both false and a smear. I mean, look at the hysteria over the Madrassa story, which from what I can gather is more or less true--he attended a Muslim school. The left's spin was that it was just a school like any other, but that isn't really true. In his own book he wrote about making faces during "Koranic studies."

No, I am saying some on the left appear to be changing the facts to fit their spin. Minimizing his connections when they are scared it will scare away voters, while highlighting them when they think they can benefit from them. Which I suppose is to be expected but it's dishonest. That's the point.

I do not feel constrained or cowed at all. I dislike Islam as theology and would be reluctant to vote for a believer of its tenets. I don't think Obama is Muslim or ever considered himself a believer, but I don't think it's a smear or a stretch to suggest he was for a brief time raised as a Muslim. I do not hold that against him in the least, but it's legitimate news. Of more concern is his mentor as an adult, the radical Christian minister, Reverend Wright.
Hans,
That's a good post; you make a number of good points. Some of them I disagree with, but you make them well and in a rational way.

But let me ask you a question: Do you think the Drudge/Fox News/Washington Times story from January, 2007, was a legitimate and fair piece of journalism? Or a clear attack piece filled with distortions, if not outright lies, and intended to generate fears from the Republican base and, to whatever extent possible, the population at large?

The argument you presented in 3 pararaphs above is level headed and reasonable. But I fear you can't retain such esteemed tones while denying that this is a political hit job:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/fox-obama-madrassa/

Be sure to watch the video. Know that I am dying to hear your response.



.
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  #24  
Old 12-19-2007, 11:25 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans gruber View Post
Minimizing his connections when they are scared it will scare away voters, while highlighting them when they think they can benefit from them. Which I suppose is to be expected but it's dishonest.
Are you suggesting that there are rational fears of Obama's Muslim connections? I should think that any "fears" of Obama's "connections" are irrational at their root. How can it be dishonest of Democrats to refrain from promoting irrational fears of Obama's "connections" to the Muslim world?

I think you need to be specific:

What are the specific examples of Democrats or the left minimizing his connections when they are scared it will scare away voters?

What are the specific examples of Democrats or the left highlighting them when they think they can benefit from them?




Quote:
Originally Posted by hans gruber View Post
I don't think it's a smear or a stretch to suggest he was for a brief time raised as a Muslim.
But you do know that the rumors being circulated in the fever swamps go far beyond that, right?


far /fɑr/ Pronunciation[fahr] adverb, adjective, far暗her or fur暗her, far暗hest or fur暗hest.
adverb
1. at or to a great distance; a long way off; at or to a remote point: We sailed far ahead of the fleet.
3. at or to a great, advanced, or definite point of progress, or degree: Having come this far, we might as well continue.
adjective
5. being at a great distance; remote in time or place: a far country; the far future.
6. extending to a great distance: the far frontiers of empire.





Quote:
Originally Posted by hans gruber View Post
I do not hold that against him in the least, but it's legitimate news. Of more concern is his mentor as an adult, the radical Christian minister, Reverend Wright.
Hoo-boy. I haven't heard about this one. Care to fill me in on the nefarious Reverend Wright? Complete with examples of his influence over Mr. Obama?




.
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Last edited by TwinSwords; 12-19-2007 at 11:29 PM..
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2007, 12:28 AM
Bloggin' Noggin Bloggin' Noggin is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

Byron tries to correct Paul, but he is clearly wrong in this. It originally meant killing one in ten or reducing by 1/10, as Paul says. Very naturally, as Brendan's article points out, it grew to mean "seriously reduce" or "destroy a lot of", but Byron is definitely wrong to think that it doesn't even encompass its original meaning. He has the original story about the legions backwards. So score one for the liberals.
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2007, 12:44 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

BN:

Quote:
So score one for the liberals.
(*Cackles appreciatively*)
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2007, 01:22 AM
Incompetence Dodger Incompetence Dodger is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
BN:



(*Cackles appreciatively*)
Unfortunately, Paul got the baseball metaphor exactly wrong, so we're back to even. As entertaining as lefty-righty matchups are on bloggingheads, in baseball a pitcher has on balance an advantage over a same-handed batter.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2007, 01:34 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: decimate

ID:

Did I let that one get by me? I could have sworn he said it properly.

Not that it really applies as much as it used to -- in this day and age of variously tailing splitters, the advantage isn't as uniform as it used to be in the past. Plus, any competent ballclub has a statistician on staff who can print out all match-up possibilities for the benefit of the manager.

Still cacklin', however.
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2007, 01:52 AM
Namazu Namazu is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Quote:
Race or color has no part to play in any normal selection process.
We should live by these words and stop trying to game our image in the world. If we do the right thing and be patient, people will like and respect us for the right reasons. The notion that having Obama as a front man can give us a shortcut baffles me. Is our problem that the world thinks we're racists? That our political system is perceived to be closed? Who exactly is going to be won over by a President Obama's superficial characteristics? Muslims? Europeans? The whole thing smacks of projection: the only countries likely to even relate to our obsession with electing a first black President are in Africa, where we're already wildly popular these days (favorable ratings as high as low 80s in some countries). I would think that reading Bob's books, let alone writing them, would be an antidote to such provincial thinking.
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2007, 06:27 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Smile Spreading It Around

1. Kudos to Paul and Byron on the Afghanistan hypothetical. More, more...

2. Another good discussion about "Army junior officers make like trees". I guess both are just too polite to mention how low on the casualty-exposure index both civilians and army officers are getting. There's thunder in the distance as the RMA looms and pundits like Robert Kaplan talk about reducing the Army to Special Forces. Someone needs to talk about how DoD's budgetary responsibilities might affect military reform, too. How long does DoD want to provide health care and pensions for health care? As long as GM? Dare I say it: the Army is not an institution for families.

Again, who, is the leftist and the conservative? I forgot..perhaps they should update their credentials every segment. And, preface every argument with their angle. Like "I'm a leftist, so..." Or, "Now, because you're a knuckle-dragger, I have to disagree...!"

I also think ties should be mandatory, but only conservative patterns or plain. Women must wear skirts, too. Maybe we can have a bhTV uniform? Or, just a name tag that's color-coded. But, Byron has to cut his hair!

Please, Mr. Wright, stop the madness!
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  #31  
Old 12-20-2007, 06:48 AM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

Quote:
That's a good post; you make a number of good points. Some of them I disagree with, but you make them well and in a rational way.

But let me ask you a question: Do you think the Drudge/Fox News/Washington Times story from January, 2007, was a legitimate and fair piece of journalism? Or a clear attack piece filled with distortions, if not outright lies, and intended to generate fears from the Republican base and, to whatever extent possible, the population at large?
You'd have to link to some other material, because the Fox bit you provided doesn't really provide enough info. It appears to have gotten one thing wrong, stating that his father raised him as Muslim until he was 10. As I understand it, his biological father was an atheist (but raised a Muslim?), and that it was his stepfather who he spent time in Indonesia with. A brief search seems to indicate that news stories around Jan of 2007 get these facts right, whereas the Fox anchors erred slightly by labeling his stepfather as his "father." The Fox clip also shows them speculating that Wahabism was part of the curriculum. I wouldn't be suprised if that was wrong, but then again I wouldn't be suprised if that was right. What particulars are wrong? I remember that a lot of people claimed this story was totally false, I also remember looking into it and finding it on balance correct, minus a couple particulars.

edit: I found the old CNN "debunking" of the story on youtube. It's obvious that the term "Madrassa" was inapproriate insofar as the school doesn't resemble the sort of radical Wahabi schools to which the West associates the term. From what I can tell, Obama was registered as a Muslim at the school (so he learned about the Koran each week), and occasionally attended Islamic religious activities. So I'd have to say that the gist of the story is correct--Obama was raised a Muslim for at least part of his life before the age of 10, but a lot of the speculation around the initial story--that he attended the sort of radical school we typically think of as "Madrassa" is quite wrong.

Last edited by hans gruber; 12-20-2007 at 10:32 AM..
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  #32  
Old 12-20-2007, 07:04 AM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Re: Muslim background a positive?

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Hoo-boy. I haven't heard about this one. Care to fill me in on the nefarious Reverend Wright? Complete with examples of his influence over Mr. Obama?
His title to his most recent book, The Audacity of Hope, was taken from one of his sermons. He was the head of the church Obama attended (and still attends) in Chicago. Here's an article on their relationship and its problems for Obama:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us...s/06obama.html
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  #33  
Old 12-20-2007, 08:10 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Spreading It Around

Baltimoron:

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..perhaps they should update their credentials every segment. And, preface every argument with their angle. Like "I'm a leftist, so..." Or, "Now, because you're a knuckle-dragger, I have to disagree...!"
Nice.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:54 AM
jmcnulty jmcnulty is offline
 
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Default Re: Spreading It Around

Note to Bjkeefe:

Look, neither I nor the "right wing" have said anything about Obama being a Muslim, although I think his Muslim roots should not be off-limits to RATIONAL inquiry. I think you would find that conservatives, rightly or wrongly, are more positively disposed to Obama than to Hillary, which perhaps explains the current coonservative schadenfreude over her current plight. Perhaps this is an example of being better disposed to the Devil you do not know that the Devil you do know. I disagree with this, because I think that Hillary is more likely to be a "cast-iron bitch" on foreign policy (the iron fist in the velvet glove) than the feckless Obama. So far, the only responsible person who has raised this Obama/Muslim issue, even mentioning a "Manchurian Candidate" senario, which ordinarily would be dismissed with the Bildeburger conspiracy theorists, is (guess who?) former Sen. Bob Kerrey, who, the last time I checked, was still a Democrat and a Hillary supporter. By the way, Obama is an apostate Muslim (and thus deserving of death) under all varieties of Muslim law. I doubt that this would be completely overlooked if he bacame head of the American infidel regime. Would a devout Muslim even shake his hand? The fact that he is named Obama and is black would be considered less important that that he is not only an enemy of Islam like Bush, but an apostate of Islam and thus a traitor to the faith of Allah. Some people take religion more seriously that it is taken in the Bob Wright world of Bloggingheads.tv.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:11 AM
ohcomeon ohcomeon is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

While everyone is discussing words that irritate them, I want to say that the word "tits" in reference to Senator Clinton's breasts is offensive and unecessary.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:15 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

ohc:

I agree. Who has said that? Besides Ann Althouse, I mean.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:23 AM
garbagecowboy garbagecowboy is offline
 
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Default Re: Grassroots Republicans Rebuild Party

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidneystones
Let's say that Obama wins. What happens? Obama's race (and HRC's tits, for that matter) are a novelty only in America. Pakistan, India, Israel and the UK have all had female leaders. Chile and Germany are both currently governed by women. The world's reaction to announcements that HRC is a woman will be met with: 'so what'? Ditto Obama. The world can see he's black. And his skin tone isn't going to mean a damn thing to anyone. And his name? You're surely not going to argue that anyone's name carries valency of any kind, are you?
In my previous life I was a snitch.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:43 AM
hans gruber hans gruber is offline
 
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Default Re: Spreading It Around

"Look, neither I nor the "right wing" have said anything about Obama being a Muslim, although I think his Muslim roots should not be off-limits to RATIONAL inquiry. I think you would find that conservatives, rightly or wrongly, are more positively disposed to Obama than to Hillary, which perhaps explains the current coonservative schadenfreude over her current plight. Perhaps this is an example of being better disposed to the Devil you do not know that the Devil you do know. I disagree with this, because I think that Hillary is more likely to be a "cast-iron bitch" on foreign policy (the iron fist in the velvet glove) than the feckless Obama."

I like and even respect Obama as a person (though he isn't charming, nor is he a very good speaker*). Yet I would rather have Hillary as president for the reasons you have cited, even though I dislike her and think she lacks integrity (much like her hubby).

*The praise of Obama puzzles me. I do think he is quite intelligent and capable, but neither his speaking skills nor his peronal charm impress me. In fact, I'd rate him below the average politician on both scores. Every time I hear him speak I think to myself: Why do so many describe him as an exceptional speaker when he's so dry and uninspiring?
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:06 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Spreading It Around

jmcnulty:

First off, I wish you would reply to the appropriate post, rather than just clicking "post a comment" from the video page, or however it is that you're doing. Or at least quote something from my post to which you're replying.

Moving on, you said:

Quote:
Look, neither I nor the "right wing" have said anything about Obama being a Muslim, although I think his Muslim roots should not be off-limits to RATIONAL inquiry.
Oh, please. Maybe you haven't, but the yappers on Fox and AM radio rarely fail to work this in. Moreover, it's often done by sly insinuation. And what is this "RATIONAL inquiry" of which you speak? He went to a Muslim school for a while when he was a kid. End of story. Don't tell me that you have Manchurian Candidate paranoia.

As for Muslims considering Obama to be an apostate, I've replied to this idea elsewhere, but to repeat: I'm sure there are some extremists who would take this view, but I am inclined to believe the mainstream will find him easier to take than GWB. By far.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:12 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: I said 'tits'.

kidneystones:

Thanks for 'fessing up. I must have read right over it. Evidently, I'm inured to the term.

I'll defend to the death your right to say "tits," but since another frequent commenter has stated that she finds the term offensive, at least in that context, if it were I who had written what you did, I would avoid using it in the future. Doesn't seem like too much to ask.
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