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  #41  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:59 AM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

Apple: Those poor 'Palestinians'. Before 1967, they were part of Jordan and Egypt, and no one was even aware of their 'plight' - not even the 'Palestinians' themselves.

It would be hard to imagine concocting a bigger lie regarding the conflict over Israel-Palestine.
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  #42  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
Apple: Those poor 'Palestinians'. Before 1967, they were part of Jordan and Egypt, and no one was even aware of their 'plight' - not even the 'Palestinians' themselves.

It would be hard to imagine concocting a bigger lie regarding the conflict over Israel-Palestine.
I dunno, it seems like this isn't actually a lie. After all, the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank weren't even aware of their plight because it didn't exist before 1967; they weren't living under a foreign military occupation. Of course, Apple continues to pretend not to understand this point so he can push this "Palestinian nationalism doesn't exist" as if one only has a right not to be forcibly expelled from your home or a right to self-determination if you're part of a group that Apple considers deserving of a nation-state.
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  #43  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default One state

Quote:
Ah, so you're an anti-Zionist.
I'm better described as a non-Zionist or a post-Zionist. I was a supporter of a two-state resolution of the conflict until about 2000, when it became apparent that Israel and Palestinians would never agree on the parameters of a new state.

I support the upcoming Palestinian independence vote at the UN however, which I expect will pass overwhelmingly this fall, when virtually every country on the planet, except the US and Israel, sign on to a '67 borders outcome.

Freedom for Palestinians has enormous international support, even including the USA in theory (and in Obama and Bush speeches), but I don't believe it's doable on the ground.

That's why I wholeheartedly wish, pray and work for a bi-national, democratic, secular one-state that encompasses Gaza, the WB, J-lem and all of present-day Israel. This state, however, must be achieved through nonviolent means. It's coming, be patient.
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  #44  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:07 PM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
Apple's desperation to piggy-back a weak argument and useless "analogies"* on fear-mongering over anti-semitism and assertions of bad faith is showing.
I don't see an argument. Was there supposed to be one here?

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
(*BTW, New Mexico, California, and other states won during the Mexican War are "illegal settlements".)
And acquired in a war of aggression. On the other hand, the war of 1967 was unquestionably legitimate. So when are people in California going to abandon their illegal settlement and return the land to its rightful owner?
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  #45  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:09 PM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
I dunno, it seems like this isn't actually a lie. After all, the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank weren't even aware of their plight because it didn't exist before 1967; they weren't living under a foreign military occupation.
Well, if 'Palestinians' are a people, then they *were* under foreign military occupation before 1967, namely that of the Egyptians and Jordanians. But apparently, the 'Palestinians' are not very different from Egyptians and Jordanians, and that's my argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Of course, Apple continues to pretend not to understand this point so he can push this "Palestinian nationalism doesn't exist" as if one only has a right not to be forcibly expelled from your home or a right to self-determination if you're part of a group that Apple considers deserving of a nation-state.
Who is talking about being expelled from your home?

As for self-determination, should Texas have a right to self-determination? Why should it be forcibly occupied by Yankees?
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  #46  
Old 07-18-2011, 04:11 PM
apple
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
I'm better described as a non-Zionist or a post-Zionist. I was a supporter of a two-state resolution of the conflict until about 2000, when it became apparent that Israel and Palestinians would never agree on the parameters of a new state.
If these two peoples can't agree on the parameters of a new state (mostly because the 'Palestinians' reject generous Israeli offers), what makes you think that throwing them together in one country will work out well? Because it worked out so well in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and Belgium? Multiculturalism is a failure everywhere. Also, Islam is incompatible with democracy, and with a secular state.

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
This state, however, must be achieved through nonviolent means. It's coming, be patient.
Ever the liberal idealist, eh?
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  #47  
Old 07-18-2011, 06:40 PM
cragger cragger is offline
 
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Default Re: Saudi spare oil production capacity

You aren't the only one questioning Saudi reserves and capacity. It seems fairly widespread in those who follow the industry to think the Saudis have been overstating things for years.
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  #48  
Old 07-18-2011, 07:11 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post

That's why I wholeheartedly wish, pray and work for a bi-national, democratic, secular one-state that encompasses Gaza, the WB, J-lem and all of present-day Israel. This state, however, must be achieved through nonviolent means. It's coming, be patient.

You have a lot of faith. I think we are going to learn in the coming years, as the 'arab spring' progresses, that democracy does not always produce secularism and human rights.
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  #49  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:11 PM
chamblee54 chamblee54 is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
You have a lot of faith. I think we are going to learn in the coming years, as the 'arab spring' progresses, that democracy does not always produce secularism and human rights.
Substitute "2012 elections" for "arab spring"
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  #50  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:20 PM
apple
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by chamblee54 View Post
Substitute "2012 elections" for "arab spring"
Chamblee54
Or the 2008 elections. See: TSA gropings.
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  #51  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:24 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

Apple - you're welcome to your stupidity, aggressive amorality and dishonesty. Have a blast. I could care less. You're not worth my time.

Last edited by brucds; 07-18-2011 at 11:27 PM..
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  #52  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:30 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

Don Zeko - just as one data point, and obviously to any sentient being not the most compelling, the PLO was founded in 1964. On my calendar that pre-dates 1967. Going back to 1949, the expelling of 700,000 people from their homelands - regardless of how you want to argue the rights or wrongs of context, and I happen to be quite sympathetic to the Israelis in that moment - wasn't a problem and no-one noticed? I'm appalled at the lack of even minimal intellectual integrity in this argument. Actually, on Apple's part...not really.
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  #53  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:32 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
Don Zeko - just as one data point, and obviously to any sentient being not the most compelling, the PLO was founded in 1964. On my calendar that pre-dates 1967. Going back to 1949, the expelling of 700,000 people from their homelands - regardless of how you want to argue the rights or wrongs of context - wasn't a problem and no-one noticed? I'm appalled at the lack of even minimal intellectual integrity in this argument. Actually, on Apple's part...not really.
Sure, I was just reading him very narrowly (almost certainly too narrowly) as just referring to the denizens of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Of course, I suspect that Apple will respond to this in the same way he's responded to everything else: by claiming that you need an established national identity to have a right not to be expelled from your home.
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  #54  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:34 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

Since anti-Semitism has been introduced - dishonestly - into these threads. I'll venture to say this: I've been a lot more open to the arguments of Zionists when they don't proudly display the sensibilities of their Jabotinsky-Kahane ultra-nationalist/fascistic wing. Unfortunately, that's the mindset that appears to have become politically dominant and even "trendy" among many Zionist apologists.
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  #55  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:42 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Sure, I was just reading him very narrowly (almost certainly too narrowly) as just referring to the denizens of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Of course, I suspect that Apple will respond to this in the same way he's responded to everything else: by claiming that you need an established national identity to have a right not to be expelled from your home.
I think you're being kind. I'd say the evidence suggests that the Palestinians' religious identity has an awful lot to do with that.
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  #56  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:57 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Unfortunately, that's the mindset that appears to have become politically dominant and even "trendy" among many Zionist apologists.
Israel has lurched sharply to the right in the 21th century, as the Apartheid regime has solidified, the siege mentality has reached hysterical proportions ("Iran wants to nuke us; we must ghettoize the West Bank with a giant Wall") and the USA has continued to enable an intransigent and relentlessly cruel anti-Palestinian policy. Israeli Jewish demographic trends suggest that things will only get worse over the next few decades. The Sharon, Olmert and Netanyahu governments -- with regard to the so-called Peace Process -- have gone from terrible to worse-than-terrible to catastrophic. Nothing on the horizon suggests change.

Obama has contributed less than zero by backing down every time Netanyahu growls at him. In Obama's defense, American politics severely punishes any leader who isn't politically aligned with the Israeli right wing, so he's in a bind. In the USA, it doesn't really matter which party is in power; both are equally pro-Likud, and both are tolerant of the most egregious Israeli atrocities.

On the Palestinian side, Hamas represents an extremely despressing and dangerous trend. Israelis like to blame everything on Hamas. That's not fair, but they do deserve plenty of blame for terrorism and religious fanaticism.
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  #57  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:33 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by chamblee54 View Post
Substitute "2012 elections" for "arab spring"
Chamblee54
Equating the solid consensus in American culture in regards to theocracy, with the consensus in Muslim countries, smacks of the nihilism. IMHO
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  #58  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:40 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Equating the solid consensus in American culture in regards to theocracy, with the consensus in Muslim countries, smacks of the nihilism. IMHO
I'm not sure what you mean there exactly. They're not exactly the same, but I doubt Hagee would be preferable to an Iranian Mullah as a head of state. The Mullahs have a strategic advantage since they already have their theocracy. I think Jeff Sharlet has shown pretty clearly that that aspiration is alive and well among American evangelicals.
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  #59  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:42 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I think you're being kind. I'd say the evidence suggests that the Palestinians' religious identity has an awful lot to do with that.
Probably right, but Apple's argument is horrible even if I'm charitable to it.
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  #60  
Old 07-19-2011, 01:08 AM
chamblee54 chamblee54 is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
On the Palestinian side, Hamas represents an extremely despressing and dangerous trend. Israelis like to blame everything on Hamas. That's not fair, but they do deserve plenty of blame for terrorism and religious fanaticism.
Israel deserves a share of the blame for Hamas. There are indications that Hamas is an Israeli creation gone awry. Even if this is not true, it should not be surprising that people are turning to radical leadership after many years of occupation/quasi occupation in Gaza. Israel did a very poor job of preparing the Gazans for Independence.
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  #61  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:45 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I'm not sure what you mean there exactly. They're not exactly the same, but I doubt Hagee would be preferable to an Iranian Mullah as a head of state. The Mullahs have a strategic advantage since they already have their theocracy. I think Jeff Sharlet has shown pretty clearly that that aspiration is alive and well among American evangelicals.
The fact that Christian theocrats exist, and they are not preferable to Muslim theocrats, is not a basis for equating the probabilities of Arab theocracies in the ME with the practical impossibility of a Christian theocracy in America. Paranoia, resulting in seeing a 'Christian theocrat' behind every prayer breakfast, notwithstanding.
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  #62  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:48 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
... Christian theocrats exist ... a Christian theocracy in America. ... a 'Christian theocrat' behind every prayer breakfast ...
Thank you.

As they say, the first step in conquering a problem is admitting that there is a problem.
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  #63  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:03 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Thank you.

As they say, the first step in conquering a problem is admitting that there is a problem.
Right. And while we're at it, don't forget those Muslim Americans who would replace the constitution with Sharia law if they could.
Oh..wait..that's not a politically correct paranoia is it?
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  #64  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:07 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Right. And while we're at it, don't forget those Muslim Americans who would replace the constitution with Sharia law if they could.
First sentence here.

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Oh..wait..that's not a politically correct paranoia is it?
Mighty sad that you think that's the worst part about what you just said.
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  #65  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:19 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
First sentence here.



Mighty sad that you think that's the worst part about what you just said.
I'm not sure if this correlates with the riddle that is your last post, but I'll take a stab at it, and I feel like saying this in any case.

I oppose paranoia all around. But if I really, really, with a gun to my head, had to choose one. You can bet it would be any of those politically incorrect ones.

Last edited by whburgess; 07-19-2011 at 03:22 AM..
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  #66  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:36 AM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Perhaps you are "American" or "Israeli."
Those signify nation states.

Quote:
The USA has not tortured, assassinated or illegally imprisoned any Mexicans. The USA has not occupied Mexico, demolished Mexican homes as collective punishment, or established Apartheid Settlements on Mexican land.
Mexico also isn't engaged in a campaign of violence almost exclusively targeting American civilians. A more apt comparison would be to say that Texans of Mexican dissent are actually "Texicans" entitled to a unique state which never existed, and justified in achieving those ends by inflicting savage violence against the civilian populace of Dallas.

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Jews live in peace virtually wherever they want Earth,
Except in Islamic nations. And European states with large Islamic populations.

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including Iran.
That is a tiny, tiny, community of Jews.

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Here in North and South America,
You're right about the North, wrong about South.

The Chavez regime's frequent anti-Israel statements, open support for terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah and collusion with radical Islamic leaders like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran are having a "spillover effect" in Venezuelan society, with anti-Israel demonstrations, anti-Jewish graffiti and other displays of anti-Semitism becoming dangerously commonplace, according to ADL.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4925_13.htm

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Jews have flourished everywhere, completely independently of Israel and Zionism.

Jews are doing splendidly in Germany, if you haven't noticed. Times change.
Yeah.....guilt works wonders.

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Israel does not speak for all Jews
That, unfortunately, seems to be true.
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  #67  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:03 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
Apple - you're welcome to your stupidity, aggressive amorality and dishonesty. Have a blast. I could care less. You're not worth my time.
Apparently, someone who does not favor the destruction of Israel and its replacement with an Islamo-fascist regime is stupid, aggressively amoral and dishonest. Do you have any more stellar arguments?
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  #68  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:07 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Don Zeko - just as one data point, and obviously to any sentient being not the most compelling, the PLO was founded in 1964.
Are you talking about the murdering terrorist organization known as the Palestinian Liberation Organization? Can you tell me why its leader, the terrorist Arafat, was born in Egypt? Can you tell me whom they were striving to 'liberate' in 1964?

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
On my calendar that pre-dates 1967.
I think your calendar is still in the 1300s.

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Originally Posted by brucds View Post
Going back to 1949, the expelling of 700,000 people from their homelands
Wrong again, no one forced them to leave. Apparently, war leads to desolation and people fleeing their homes. Who could have guessed? Apparently, not the Arab states who ganged up on the young Jewish state to finish Hitler's work and to off those who escaped Auschwitz and Dachau once and for all.

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I'm appalled at the lack of even minimal intellectual integrity in this argument. Actually, on Apple's part...not really.
You keep insulting me. Am I supposed to be impressed?
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  #69  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:09 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I think you're being kind. I'd say the evidence suggests that the Palestinians' religious identity has an awful lot to do with that.
It has more to do with the fact that the national sport of the 'Palestinians' is blowing up children, old men and pregnant women. Of course, that wouldn't be related to their 'religious identity', or is it?
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  #70  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:10 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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On the Palestinian side, Hamas represents an extremely despressing and dangerous trend.
My God! Someone inform Wonderment that his account has been hacked.
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  #71  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:16 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by apple View Post
It has more to do with the fact that the national sport of the 'Palestinians' is blowing up children, old men and pregnant women. Of course, that wouldn't be related to their 'religious identity', or is it?
As opposed to Likud's origin in the Irgun? If you want to talk about individuals' responsibility for their own acts, there's a whole litany we can agree to among the ranks of Hamas, the PA, the PLO, Irgun, and the IDF - to name just a few. But as long as you ignore the atrocities of one side, and assign collective guilt to the other, there's only one way to describe your point of view.
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  #72  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:26 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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As opposed to Likud's origin in the Irgun? If you want to talk about individuals' responsibility for their own acts, there's a whole litany we can agree to among the ranks of Hamas, the PA, the PLO, Irgun, and the IDF - to name just a few. But as long as you ignore the atrocities of one side, and assign collective guilt to the other, there's only one way to describe your point of view.
What atrocities? And what collective guilt? I did not say that every single 'Palestinian' is responsible for terrorist acts, only that 'Palestinian' culture is rather supportive of terrorist acts. Witness the fact that Hamas gets a huge number of votes. And the fact that the terrorist Arafat became a popular hero.

These are all hard facts, inconvenient truths, I'm sure, but no less true for being inconvenient for you.
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  #73  
Old 07-19-2011, 11:06 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by apple View Post
What atrocities? And what collective guilt? I did not say that every single 'Palestinian' is responsible for terrorist acts, only that 'Palestinian' culture is rather supportive of terrorist acts. Witness the fact that Hamas gets a huge number of votes. And the fact that the terrorist Arafat became a popular hero.

These are all hard facts, inconvenient truths, I'm sure, but no less true for being inconvenient for you.
You've said more than that. Do you expect people living in Gaza, of all places, to see the Israelis as anything other than monsters? Hamas' popularity derives from their history of looking a hell of a lot better than the PLO to the denizens of Palestine and from their status as the guys who stand up to the common enemy.

Are you unfamiliar with the history of the formation of Israel and the role of the Irgun in that, and with Ariel Sharon's personal history? The use by the IDF of cluster bombs in civilian areas and airstrikes on private homes?

The inconvenient fact is that in the I/P conflict there are no angels.
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  #74  
Old 07-19-2011, 11:18 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
You've said more than that. Do you expect people living in Gaza, of all places, to see the Israelis as anything other than monsters?
No, because that beautiful religion of peace and flowers teaches that the Jews are "accursed". Also, people following the beautiful religion of peace and flowers hate Israelis (and Jews), no matter where they live.

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
Hamas' popularity derives from their history of looking a hell of a lot better than the PLO to the denizens of Palestine and from their status as the guys who stand up to the common enemy.
Not to Israeli troops, that's for sure. Instead, Hamas and PLO target civilians: children, women and old men. Perhaps children old enough (6) to be the 'prophet' Muhammad's wife, but children nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
Are you unfamiliar with the history of the formation of Israel and the role of the Irgun in that, and with Ariel Sharon's personal history?
Ariel Sharon's involvement with Irgun? No, I am not familiar with anything like that.

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
The use by the IDF of cluster bombs in civilian areas and airstrikes on private homes?
You mean when Hamas-lowlifes use private homes as shields?

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
The inconvenient fact is that in the I/P conflict there are no angels.
Guess what, there are no angels, period. Is that news to you? Nonetheless, I will always side with free, democratic states over hateful, murdering, bigoted, misogynistic, homophobic religious manics. I know, I know, how dare I.
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  #75  
Old 07-19-2011, 11:25 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

You've made it depressingly easy for me to make my point. It's too bad, in other ways it seems like you're capable of something approaching rationality.
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  #76  
Old 07-19-2011, 11:38 AM
apple
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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You've made it depressingly easy for me to make my point.
And still you're incapable of making it?
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  #77  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:46 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Right. And while we're at it, don't forget those Muslim Americans who would replace the constitution with Sharia law if they could.
Oh..wait..that's not a politically correct paranoia is it?
I thought your argument about the 2012 comment was that it's silly to think the US will become a theocracy. That's true, although I don't think that was the point the 2012 comment was making. But if it's true and relevant, as I think it is, then it's also true and relevant that it's ridiculous to think there's a chance of the US becoming a Muslim theocracy or rejecting the Constitution in favor of sharia. It's so insane that I don't think that anyone in their right mind could possibly believe it will happen. Thus, the purpose of scare rhetoric about sharia law in place of the Constitution can't be genuine fear of such a thing happening. Pointing this out has nothing to do with "political correctness."
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  #78  
Old 07-19-2011, 02:55 PM
apple
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Thus, the purpose of scare rhetoric about sharia law in place of the Constitution can't be genuine fear of such a thing happening.
No? Tell that to Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gogh, and other victims of Islam.

The presence of large numbers of Muslims is clearly deleterious.
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  #79  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:18 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Playing with Dangerous Things (Joel Rubin & Josh Block)

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Ariel Sharon's involvement with Irgun? No, I am not familiar with anything like that.
He was a member of the Ha-ganah.

Later, he was in charge of the unit that committed the mass murders of civilians at Qibya in 1953 (69 Palestinians slaughtered, including children).

He was also co-conspirator in the mass murder of civilian Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila, among other atrocities.

Clearly a world-class war criminal.

Additionally, Sharon was arguably the Settlers number 1 advocate among the Israeli political elite in the 80s and 90s, which has led directly to the nightmare of Israeli West Bank Apartheid that we have today.
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  #80  
Old 07-19-2011, 03:22 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: One state

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Originally Posted by apple View Post
No? Tell that to Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gogh, and other victims of Islam.
Gosh, I didn't know that they suffered due to the replacement of the Constitution by sharia law. Indeed, it seems to me that federal judges and Supreme Court justices have continued to apply the Constitution and not sharia. Seems like someone needs to better communicate this incredible change that apparently just magically happened.

Either that or your post is a complete non-sequitur.

I realize you have a particular topic that you really want to have people argue with you about, but the topic that I was addressing was a different one.
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