Go Back   Bloggingheads Community > Diavlog comments
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Notices

Diavlog comments Post comments about particular diavlogs here.
(Users cannot create new threads.)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 08-02-2010, 11:29 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Well cocaine works wonders for sore fingers!! Seriously though, Stevie was truly special. Blues purists love to worship at the alter of Muddy, Buddy, Johnnie Lee, Robert Johnson etc., but I put SRV right up there for one of the best blues feels ever. There's a reason that his style is so often mimicked among guitar-players.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 08-02-2010, 11:33 PM
robarin robarin is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 18
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Nice. That Hendrix solo (at 3:55) is one of the most bad-ass electric guitar solos ever. That one and the studio version of Red House are the ones that really got me into Jimi.

Here's another guy who still gives me chills (especially at 1:25)
I hadn't seen that SRV clip. He is really "on" there, for sure.

The studio version of Red House is great. I'll have to give it another listen because it's been a while.
Jimi is one of the musicians who I liked at a young age but whose brilliance I was too young to really appreciate at the time.

I majored in music at uni, and "discovered" some sublime pieces of classical music in the course of my studies. Truth is, mostly they were standards that any serious listener of classical music would know! I just grew up on the other side of the tracks, so to speak.
The stuff that really touched me tended to be solo piano pieces -- such as the sonatas of Mozart and Beethoven, and this Intermezzo by Brahms. In these small scale works, I feel like I can experience the humanity of the composers in a way that I don't in their great symphonies or concertos.
________
MERCEDES-BENZ VARIO HISTORY
________
Bong

Last edited by robarin; 09-02-2011 at 10:15 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 08-03-2010, 12:11 AM
robarin robarin is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 18
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Damn! Try it with onions next time.

Nice link (huge Muddy Waters influence there in Jimi's blues playing).

My theory is that, if no music gives you goosebumps, then it's hopeless. But if you can show me one piece that gives you goosebumps (as you did), then I think enough exposure will make you love just about any good music (including Prez's spine-chilling sax obbligatos).

So, yes, it's all about the goosebumps!
It's all about the goosebumps. I like that Basie tune -- it's just that the particular moment you mentioned doesn't do it for me (yet ).

But I'm not sure any amount of exposure will make me love certain types of music that, on an intellectual level, I may still be able to appreciate as good or important or groundbreaking. It's one thing to appreciate a work, and quite another to want to listen to it! I'm thinking specifically about some 20th century classical music, not the jazz of Basie and his contemporaries.
________
Jailbroken
________
WEB SHOWS

Last edited by robarin; 09-02-2011 at 10:15 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 08-03-2010, 12:52 AM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Hey Robarin, I know what you mean. There's something about solo piano that really resonates with me. Probably because it is the instrument that allows for the greatest breadth of expression for a single player. Here's a pretty great example. Talk about chills.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 08-03-2010, 01:55 AM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by robarin View Post
It's one thing to appreciate a work, and quite another to want to listen to it!
I've been wrestling with that concept for a long time with no definitive answer. My gut tells me I only love music with which I have a physical rapport. After all, music is the most abstract of arts (it's got no self-evident meaning) but it's also the most physical. Why I need to play a 10-second piece a hundred times in a row is a mystery I can't explain. (That excerpt from Philadelphia goes to the heart of what passion for music is.)

That said, I realize my tastes have changed because of sheer exposure. I came to jazz late (having been raised on classical and, like everyone else, rock & blues) and it's become the music love of my life. But I've always wondered how much knowing the stories behind the music affected my taste. I think they did. Take tickletoe, for example. The head is not a jazz piece. In fact it's classical: a completely Mozartian chord progression. But Lester Young injects all these delicate mannerisms that are quintessentially jazzy (for example, introducing a motif at the end of a 4-beat bar, so that its introduction on the downbeat of the next bar sounds like an echo). And then you think of Lester Young's ruthless "cutting contests" with Coleman Hawkins in Kansas City and wonder how this fearless competitor can be the same guy who plays the most heartbreaking, sweetest saxophone lines you've ever heard. The stories matter. Maybe they shouldn't. Should they?

Context and exposure matter enormously, but I don't get the intellectual angle. There's nothing less intellectual than music. That's partly why I love it so much. The concept of an exciting 4-hour "atonal" opera sounds like an exercise in self-conditioning. Modern classical music has completely lost its way (though I love some Steve Reich and some John Adams). I think the Cold War killed American classical music -- and produced the likes of Milton Babbitt, who believes that music does not need an audience. (But that's another thread for another day.) Over those guys, I'll take SRV, and Jay-Z, and Trick Daddy any time!

Last edited by ohreally; 08-03-2010 at 01:59 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 08-03-2010, 02:21 AM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Seriously though, Stevie was truly special. Blues purists love to worship at the alter of Muddy, Buddy, Johnnie Lee, Robert Johnson etc., but I put SRV right up there for one of the best blues feels ever.
Absolutely. A phenomenal blues guitarist and (unlike Hendrix) a top-notch singer. SRV's biggest influence was Albert King. This matters because most guitar players today are influenced by BB King. Well, BB King wrote the modern handbook of blues, so it's impossible not to be influenced by him, but I think that influence is very dangerous because it takes you to this uptown spot very few can handle (Clapton being one exception) without being jazz. But SRV would have none of that. He tapped straight into Albert K, T-Bone and the rest (including Buddy). Wise wise choice.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 08-03-2010, 02:36 AM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 666
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Anyway, who needs Lady Gaga or Milton Babbitt when you can have Lil' Kim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vei8LFj40jw
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 08-03-2010, 02:58 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Listen to this Count Basie number 10 times. If at the 11th time Lester Young's entry at 0:42 doesn't move you to tears, then yes perhaps something's wrong with you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooUUhsBsvU8
For me, the only response to Lester Young is... more Lester Young!

But on the topic of "converting" others to the music we love, sometimes it works, sometimes it just doesn't. It's one of those mysteries; and often (as robarin has alluded to), the more one sells the music, the less likely the recipient is to be receptive. It's a fine line between catching someone else's enthusiasm about a particular piece or style of music and feeling hectored about why you should like it.

Thinking back on my own experience, the music that I've come to like that I didn't enjoy on first (or second or tenth) listening almost always came from listening repeatedly on my own, or at least without someone breathing down my neck telling me I should like it. But one of my favorite experiences of music is having that "aha" moment when something that seemed unlikable or puzzling comes together for me all of a sudden. One of my most vivid memories of that type of thing was watching one of Ornette Coleman's "harmolodic" groups play. I'd always experienced that stuff as just so much noise, but in one moment, something shifted in the way I was hearing it, and I "got" it. It was like watching an out-of-focus picture suddenly shift into focus.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:12 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 210
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I picked up Effortless Mastery at a buddie's house a couple years ago and thought it was really amazing.
Thanks, Eb and Listener. I just ordered it and I'm looking forward to working through it. BHTV is such an amazing place!
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:13 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 210
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Beautiful, thank you.
You're quite welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:15 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
I've been wrestling with that concept for a long time with no definitive answer. My gut tells me I only love music with which I have a physical rapport. After all, music is the most abstract of arts (it's got no self-evident meaning) but it's also the most physical. Why I need to play a 10-second piece a hundred times in a row is a mystery I can't explain. (That excerpt from Philadelphia goes to the heart of what passion for music is.)

That said, I realize my tastes have changed because of sheer exposure. I came to jazz late (having been raised on classical and, like everyone else, rock & blues) and it's become the music love of my life. But I've always wondered how much knowing the stories behind the music affected my taste. I think they did. Take tickletoe, for example. The head is not a jazz piece. In fact it's classical: a completely Mozartian chord progression. But Lester Young injects all these delicate mannerisms that are quintessentially jazzy (for example, introducing a motif at the end of a 4-beat bar, so that its introduction on the downbeat of the next bar sounds like an echo). And then you think of Lester Young's ruthless "cutting contests" with Coleman Hawkins in Kansas City and wonder how this fearless competitor can be the same guy who plays the most heartbreaking, sweetest saxophone lines you've ever heard. The stories matter. Maybe they shouldn't. Should they?

Context and exposure matter enormously, but I don't get the intellectual angle. There's nothing less intellectual than music. That's partly why I love it so much. The concept of an exciting 4-hour "atonal" opera sounds like an exercise in self-conditioning. Modern classical music has completely lost its way (though I love some Steve Reich and some John Adams). I think the Cold War killed American classical music -- and produced the likes of Milton Babbitt, who believes that music does not need an audience. (But that's another thread for another day.) Over those guys, I'll take SRV, and Jay-Z, and Trick Daddy any time!
Yes, I agree the relationship between appreciating and liking a piece of music is a complex one. There is much music where I can appreciate the skill and thought and even emotion that goes into it, yet I would not choose to listen to it. And yet, as you say, there has been much, much music that I did not like the first one or two or hundred times I heard it, that I have come to love through repeated exposure.

I taught a college "Music Appreciation" course, and the challenge of getting young kids to cotton to the "Classical" music tradition was well, pretty darn challenging. I used to begin the first class by writing this quote from Samuel Butler on the board [h/t Nicolas Slonimsky]: "The only things we hate are unfamiliar things." But heck, I didn't like Beethoven's music the first X number of times I heard it, how can I expect these kids who've never been exposed to it to enjoy it right away, in a classroom setting no less?

Regarding the "stories," I do think that music must stand on its own without the stories. But music does not exist in a vacuum. It is made by humans, and humans have stories, and I think those stories can enhance the experience of listening -- at least that has been the case for me.

And finally, regarding the 4-hour atonal opera comment, have you ever heard or seen Alban Berg's Wozzeck? To me, that is one of the most emotionally powerful pieces of music I have ever heard (although it doesn't last for 4 hours!).
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:48 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: okay

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonIrenicus View Post
I'll raise you the obvious and most famous song from them, and done by some random and surprisingly good cover on youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4iBZGPiM8


Great song, great melody, good enough to stand on its on across generations.
That was nice!

I just have to add Aretha Franklin's version. By the time she's done with the first verse, the tears just start to flow on this end!
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:53 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Brilliant! I haven't seen that performance before. I think it demonstrates what an amazing guitarist / musician Paul is. He's playing live, apparently in 100 degree weather, to a handful of people, for free. But he's duplicating almost note-for-note his studio performance of that rich and complex guitar part from the 60s. You made my day now, Look.
This reminds me of a story a Boston friend of mine told me about seeing Charlie Parker play at a Boston club on a bad, bad blizzardy night, and there were only a few people in the audience... but Parker and his band played for those few as though their lives depended on it. Those unpredictable magic moments that music provides for us...
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:57 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Very soulful. Thanks.

I love your dad's attitude. Maybe if we all just jumped in with faith in our fellow humans (or a devil-may-care attitude), we'd be pleasantly surprised by the results.
"American Tune" -- A moving melancholy yet resolute song about living in our culture these days. I actually linked to it in the "Jaw Jaw" thread a few weeks ago as a Fourth of July tribute.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon

Last edited by listener; 08-03-2010 at 03:59 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 08-03-2010, 04:02 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
People taking notes in books is the weirdest thing to me. I just don't get it. I read a lot, out of both personal love and professional obligation. But I have never, ever taken a note in or about a book I'm reading. Never. The very idea just seems very strange to me, but it also seems that I am very out of keeping with my book-reading peers.
I've never taken notes in the margins of books, but my daughter does. And when I read a book that she's lent me, her notes give me a small sense that I am reading it with her, seeing what it is that she responded to, and getting a sense of what moves her and what is important to her.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 08-03-2010, 04:25 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: the boy in the bubble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
I hadn't heard that before. Thanks for the pointer. That's one of Paul's most depressing later songs. But I love some of the lines, especially this one:

And the dead sand
Falling on the children
The mothers and the fathers
And the automatic earth
Yes, it's dark terrifying and thrilling. Yet through all the chaos and violence there is another perspective wound throughout : "These are the days of miracles and wonder." To me it evokes a sense of awe and miraculousness even in the face of such senseless destruction that makes me want to cry and yet fills me with hope at the same time.

There is the powerful combination of the objective, unemotional voice describing horrendous events such as "bomb in the baby carriage" with the sinister texture of the music carrying its emotional weight. It seems to highlight the difference between our human emotional responses to such events and impartial response of the "automatic earth." In fact, what comes to mind for me is this:

Quote:
Heaven and Earth are impartial;
They see the ten thousand things as straw dogs.
The wise are impartial;
they see the people as straw dogs.

The space between heaven and earth is like a bellows.
The shape changes but not the form;
The more it moves, the more it yields.
More words count less.
Hold fast to the center.
Lao Tsu
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 08-03-2010, 05:41 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 210
Default Re: the boy in the bubble

Your Lao Tsu quote is one of my favorites from the Tao Te Ching. Thanks for a very beautiful reminder. I hadn't made that connection with "The Boy in the Bubble," but I agree it's a powerful one.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 08-03-2010, 05:58 AM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,606
Default Re: Opera attendance

Quote:
Originally Posted by carson View Post
In the U.S., opera attendance (paid vs OperaAmerica's numbers on attendees including free park concerts, etc.) has been decreasing over the past ten years and the financing, even at the NYMet, has become more creative (they mortgaged fine art!). Most local opera companies (outside a few) have reduced the number of productions, the number of new productions, the number of performances, and some are dropping their own orchestras for subsets of the local symphony in response. The average age of opera attenders has risen over the past ten years, the ratio of men to women is increasing from the traditional 2 to 1, with average ages of women in the upper 60's for most productions. This is a trend that is mirrored internationally except Austria.

There is some concern that as the next generation enters their 50's the demand will be smaller still and the total appetite for opera in the U.S. will diminish enough that local companies will close up and some of the local demand will have to be met by 3D productions of the NYMet at the local IMAX (or local home theatre).

The combination of demographics and recent economic trials have put a big question mark over the future of many local opera companies, even ones that have existed for decades and that have had a heritage of high-quality productions. The same trends are true for ballet and some forms of theatre in many good-sized cities. The fine arts at the local level may be phasing out as that void is filled by either mega-concerts with Lady Gaga or Lil Wayne (or Josh Grobin or the Three Tenor-Type 'events') and coffee-house sized performances of singles, small groups, etc.
This is very descriptive.

I wonder if people see this as bad though? Sad? Yes, death is usually a sad thing. And the death of more classical venues for the arts IS sort of sad, but are we worse off?

How many singing artists make a living today compared to 30 years ago?
How many musicians (instrumental musicians) are employed today vs years ago?


People tend not to sit and just listen to THAT kind of music, but it has certainly survived in film and other areas. But has there been a net loss of jobs in music? Or is it simply the specific and more ancient art forms that have diminished? It was probably always true that there were more musicians/singers to fill positions than there were openings.

Last edited by JonIrenicus; 08-03-2010 at 06:02 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 08-03-2010, 11:15 AM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: Tom, Denzel and Maria Callas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Thank you for this wonderful clip. I'm away from home and I have no access to my opera links. You linked to one of my favorite scenes in this movie. An amazing performance by Hanks with Callas' impecable rendering in the background. I haven't watched the diavlog, but I love opera. It goes straight to the heart!
Beautiful and moving.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 08-03-2010, 01:30 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: Opera attendance

Quote:
Originally Posted by carson View Post
The fine arts at the local level may be phasing out as that void is filled by either mega-concerts with Lady Gaga or Lil Wayne (or Josh Grobin or the Three Tenor-Type 'events') and coffee-house sized performances of singles, small groups, etc.
I generally agree with your post, but just wanted to add that even with pop music I'm unsure how much there will be a market for mega-concerts in the future. The real mega-concerts now (as opposed to the various festivals, but with one artist or group) seem mostly to be groups that are rapidly aging themselves. Not sure how much the current musical environment is going to lead to replacements that will be touring to mega-audiences in 20 years. (This, and the splintering of the pop music audience -- resulting from the problems that the record companies and traditional radio are having -- is something that I usually think is generally good, but who knows how it will work itself out.)

Anyway, any thoughts on why the arts aren't generating a new generation of fans as much as in the past? Some of this may be obvious and I have some ideas, but I'm curious what others will say.
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 08-03-2010, 02:24 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by listener View Post
"American Tune" -- A moving melancholy yet resolute song about living in our culture these days. I actually linked to it in the "Jaw Jaw" thread a few weeks ago as a Fourth of July tribute.
Cool...I missed that...my very bad!
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 08-03-2010, 03:27 PM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Cool...I missed that...my very bad!
Yes... I paired it with "America," another similarly elegaic, melancholic song on the same theme. Interesting how the mood changes from the more hopeful "America" of 1968 to the more fatalistic "American Tune" of 1973.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 08-03-2010, 04:39 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 210
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by listener View Post
Yes... I paired it with "America," another similarly elegaic, melancholic song on the same theme. Interesting how the mood changes from the more hopeful "America" of 1968 to the more fatalistic "American Tune" of 1973.
Superb pairing! Both brilliant songs, IMO. I am surprised that you think the earlier "America" is more hopeful. I think it's a little more subtle, but this line is devastating to me.

I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
We've all come to look for America

I was 18 or so when this came out, and I had never encountered anything that captured the existential angst of those times like his music. It's really wonderful to share these thoughts and feelings with you and others here, listener.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 08-03-2010, 05:21 PM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Superb pairing! Both brilliant songs, IMO. I am surprised that you think the earlier "America" is more hopeful. I think it's a little more subtle, but this line is devastating to me.

I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
We've all come to look for America

I was 18 or so when this came out, and I had never encountered anything that captured the existential angst of those times like his music. It's really wonderful to share these thoughts and feelings with you and others here, listener.
Yeah, I know, "hopeful" wasn't quite the word I was looking for. Maybe something more akin to "innocent." Also, though the song's lyrics progress from initial optimism to the aching emptiness you allude to at the end, the tone of the music itself is brighter than that of "American Tune."

BTW, did you ever hear the version of "America" by Yes? I'm not a big Yes fan, but I do remember liking their arrangement. I tried to find a link to it but to no avail -- at least not to anything with decent audio quality.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 08-03-2010, 05:50 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 210
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by listener View Post
Yeah, I know, "hopeful" wasn't quite the word I was looking for. Maybe something more akin to "innocent." Also, though the song's lyrics progress from initial optimism to the aching emptiness you allude to at the end, the tone of the music itself is brighter than that of "American Tune."
Innocent is the perfect word. He was definitely sliding downhill, but we all were back then. As Vietnam rolled on, and then eventually Nixon and Kissinger happened to us, it was an awful time. But also, an awe-ful one, because we saw that we could make a difference, could end a war and bring down a scoundrel. And the last line of "American Tune", "I'm just trying to get some rest," bespeaks that world-weariness we had all started to feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by listener View Post
BTW, did you ever hear the version of "America" by Yes? I'm not a big Yes fan, but I do remember liking their arrangement. I tried to find a link to it but to no avail -- at least not to anything with decent audio quality.
I hadn't heard it before, but I found it on Rhapsody (10 bucks a month to subscribe, lots of tunes to stream, but some very annoying bugs in their software). Thanks for the pointer. I didn't know anyone (of note?) had covered it. I agree, not a great fan of Yes, but they did do some interesting stuff. And this harder, rockier version of America is worth a listen. Thanks for the tip.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 08-03-2010, 06:54 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,644
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragamuffinman View Post
Despite my growing openmindedness and many listening efforts, the highbrow realms of artistic value that where closed to me when I was younger remain closed. I don't think I'll ever be able to get into jazz, opera, and classical music.

Jazz, for instance, almost always leaves me completely unmoved. I've tried "appreciating" it for years, but it never, ever engages and excites me as much as more popular forms of music.
i was the same way until i stumbled on Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" on cassette for 25 cents at a yard sale. Can't say that i have developed a huge appreciation for jazz in general, but it was definitely mind-opening for me.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:00 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. SaŽah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by listener View Post
BTW, did you ever hear the version of "America" by Yes? I'm not a big Yes fan, but I do remember liking their arrangement. I tried to find a link to it but to no avail -- at least not to anything with decent audio quality.
Don't know if this'll meet your standards, since it's in two parts and was recorded live when they were kinda old,* but it sounds pretty good (by YouTube standards, at least) to me: part 1, part 2.

==========

* Though Steve Howe does not seem noticeably arthritic.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:07 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. SaŽah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Cool. If you've never heard it, I also recommend the Unplugged version of Graceland (recorded). I think I tried to listen to it on youtube once, but it wasn't very good sound quality.
Will keep it in mind.

Quote:
I listened to three of the 'Gaia songs, but I guess I'm not 'techno-ical' enough to fully appreciate them, but thanks for expanding my world!
I can certainly understand that reaction. I would say, however, that "No Rain" is a little less techno than many of his other songs, especially after the opening minutes.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:17 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. SaŽah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
So sad... huge loss.
Indeed. I was heartbroken for months, and I still get pangs to this day.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 08-04-2010, 02:23 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. SaŽah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chamblee54 View Post
[...]
I like that one.
__________________
Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 08-04-2010, 12:36 PM
listener listener is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amurka
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Don't know if this'll meet your standards, since it's in two parts and was recorded live when they were kinda old,* but it sounds pretty good (by YouTube standards, at least) to me: part 1, part 2.

==========

* Though Steve Howe does not seem noticeably arthritic.
Thanks! Yeah, they could still play, for a bunch of old guys.
__________________
"Nothing is always absolutely so." -- Theodore Sturgeon
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 08-04-2010, 03:40 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Indeed. I was heartbroken for months, and I still get pangs to this day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_IaC...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tngB...eature=related
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 08-05-2010, 12:32 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

I finally got around to listening to this diavlog. Interesting topic. I think I appreciated more the comment section, which in my opinion surpasses vastly the diavlog discussion.

I grew up listening to opera since my father was a great fan of that genre. My house was filled with records from Carusso, Gigli, Schipa, Björling, Kraus, Callas, Sack, and many others. Later on my all-time favorite Pavarotti came to the opera scene, and, in my opinion infused new life into the genre (and now sadly he, too, is gone). Despite all that, I know so many people who plainly dislike opera that I do realize that it's a music genre that requires exposure and appreciation of the use of powerful voices taken to an extreme of nuanced perfection. The fact that the language used in most operas isn't English also takes away from the pleasure of this form of art, since it is after all a sung drama. How can one appreciate this aria fully without understanding the words that reflect the clown's existential pain?

Lyrics:

Quote:
Vesti La Giubba - Pagliacci
by Luciano Pavarotti

Recitar! Mentre preso dal delirio
non so piů quel che dico e quel che faccio!
Eppure... č d'uopo... sforzati!
Bah, seti tu forse un uom?

Tu sei Pagliaccio!

Vesti la giubba e la faccia infarina.
La gente paga e rider vuole qua.

E se Arelcchin t'invola Colombina
ridi, Pagliaccio e ognun applaudirŕ!
Tramuta in lazzi lo spasmo ed il pianto;
in una smorfia il singhiozzo e 'l dolor...

Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto,
ridi del duol che t'avvelena il cor!

ENGLISH TRANSLATION
Go on stage, while I'm nearly delirious?
I don't know what I'm saying or what I'm doing!
And yet, chin up! I'll try harder. Bah, you think you're a man?
You're just a clown! On with the show, man,
and put on your white-face.
The people pay you and you must make them laugh.
And if Harlequin should steal your Columbine, laugh,
you're Pagliaccio, and the world will clap for you!
Turn into banter all your pain and sorrow,
and with your clowns' face hide grief and distress...
Laugh loud, Pagliaccio, forget all of your troubles,
Laugh off the pain that so empoisons your heart.
One of the most widely known arias, which brings me to tears each and every time I listen to it, has such overwhelming beauty in its music and vocals that the meaning of the words, although beautiful as well, aren't necessary to appreciate the piece.

Lyrics:

Quote:
ITALIAN;
Nessun dorma! Nessun dorma!
Tu pure, o, Principessa,
nella tua fredda stanza,
guardi le stelle
che fremono d'amore
e di speranza.

Ma il mio mistero e chiuso in me,
il nome mio nessun sapra!
No, no, sulla tua bocca lo diro
quando la luce splendera!

Ed il mio bacio sciogliera il silenzio
che ti fa mia!

(Il nome suo nessun sapra!...
e noi dovrem, ahime, morir!)

Dilegua, o notte!
Tramontate, stelle!
Tramontate, stelle!
All'alba vincero!
vincero, vincero!


ENGLISH
None must sleep! None must sleep!
And you, too, Princess,
in your cold room,
gaze at the stars
which tremble with love
and hope!

But my mystery is locked within me,
no-one shall know my name!
No, no, I shall say it as my mouth
meets yours when the dawn is breaking!

And my kiss will break the silence
which makes you mine!

(No-one shall know his name,
and we, alas, shall die!)

Vanish, o night!
Fade, stars!
At dawn I shall win
I listened to the links provided by other commenters with so many wonderful pieces from our contemporary music. I'm fortunate to be able to enjoy both the old and the new styles. How each style taps into our emotions and intellect is, after all, a personal experience, shaped by different exposure and sensibilities. These differences don't take away from the essential fact that art, in this case music, accesses our psyche in ways that go beyond our ability to articulate in words. And we should be glad for that.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 08-05-2010, 01:38 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

The craziest thing that often gets overlooked (I mean I knew it factually but never really THOUGHT about it if you know what I mean) is that Hendrix was only on the scene (at least in the public eye) for FOUR YEARS!! Talk about a shooting star burning bright. All those songs, several albums, revolutionized his instrument and then...gone!!
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 08-05-2010, 02:04 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Nice. That Hendrix solo (at 3:55) is one of the most bad-ass elecrtic guitar solos ever. That one and the studio version of Red House are the ones that really got me into Jimi.

Here's another guy who still gives me chills (especially at 1:25)
Nice! Great choices! Both Jimi and SRV have been among my very favorites for many years, as many of my friends know. This is the kind of musical style that I find I can share more spontaneously with my male friends and not so much with my female friends. Have you noticed that kind of gender specific music taste? Or is it just some kind of small sample bias?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 08-05-2010, 03:39 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Hey Ocean, yes I definitely have noticed a good amount of variance between genders on different styles of music. Hendrix, Vaughn and any number of other rock musicians seem to embody a very masculine approach in the way they perform. Now before anyone goes crazy accusing me of using sexist language, as happened when I briefly tried to raise a similar point on a Tiger Beat thread about female rockers, let me clarify that I'm not saying that women can't or don't perform the same way (ie- it's not something exclusively "male") but just that in the common use of the term, it's the swagger/attitude/mojo that is more often attributed to male performers than females. Whether the imbalance is a product of cultural inequality, restrictive norms towards female behavior etc., is anybody's guess and I have no idea where that answer lies.

But I have definitely seen a large disparity in the popularity of figures like Hendrix. Some girls love him obviously, but in my experience WAY MORE guys I know are into him than girls I have known. I would suspect that part of it is that he embodies a mixture of confidence, bravado, and masculinity that males would admire and fantasize about having ourselves. This is above and beyond his technical wizardy and soulful musicianship which would probably find more balanced appeal across gender lines.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 08-05-2010, 06:47 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Hey Ocean, yes I definitely have noticed a good amount of variance between genders on different styles of music. Hendrix, Vaughn and any number of other rock musicians seem to embody a very masculine approach in the way they perform. Now before anyone goes crazy accusing me of using sexist language, as happened when I briefly tried to raise a similar point on a Tiger Beat thread about female rockers, let me clarify that I'm not saying that women can't or don't perform the same way (ie- it's not something exclusively "male") but just that in the common use of the term, it's the swagger/attitude/mojo that is more often attributed to male performers than females. Whether the imbalance is a product of cultural inequality, restrictive norms towards female behavior etc., is anybody's guess and I have no idea where that answer lies.
I can see your defensiveness here. I don't know whether others will object to your statements, but I certainly don't (so far). I agree that in the same way that there are different voices and different musical styles that convey different messages, gender also contributes, sometimes heavily to the quality of the music.

Quote:
But I have definitely seen a large disparity in the popularity of figures like Hendrix. Some girls love him obviously, but in my experience WAY MORE guys I know are into him than girls I have known. I would suspect that part of it is that he embodies a mixture of confidence, bravado, and masculinity that males would admire and fantasize about having ourselves. This is above and beyond his technical wizardy and soulful musicianship which would probably find more balanced appeal across gender lines.
You're making a distinction between the public image of the interpreter as opposed to his music. It seems that you find the gender differences in how much an artist is liked when it applies to the artist's persona but not as much in terms of musicianship. My impression originally had to do with the music itself. Certain forms of music may appeal to one gender more than the other. It's a very general impression and I'm sure that there are many exceptions.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 08-05-2010, 08:54 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Hey Ocean, I was not meaning to sound defensive at all. Just trying to head off the kindof Tiger Beat logic that I thought might come from others (not you) based on misinterpreting the point I was trying to make.

You are correct, I answered more based on the performance style angle of Jimi and Stevie rather than the point of their music. That was my mistake. The reason I probably made that quick jump (in addition to probably just reading your post too quickly) is because for both of these guys, their performance and style is such a huge factor in their music. So much so that, to me, it's almost impossible to seperate the music from the performance entirely (and I'm not talking about the tricks and gimmicks, per se, but more the way they strike the notes, hold them, bend the strings and generally attack the instrument...albeit beautifully.)

That said, back to your original question: yes my experience has been the same as yours in that the music of Hendrix and SRV are both much more popular among my male friends than with my female friends. And that's the phenomenon that I do find interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 08-05-2010, 10:31 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
That said, back to your original question: yes my experience has been the same as yours in that the music of Hendrix and SRV are both much more popular among my male friends than with my female friends. And that's the phenomenon that I do find interesting.
Yes, I think that for some music styles gender specific predilection is puzzling.

Having settled that, here are two favorites:

Jimi

Stevie playing Jimi.

Sorry. I may have posted these before. I really love both.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 08-05-2010, 11:59 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not Real America, according to St. SaŽah
Posts: 21,798
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Great stuff. I still remember the first time I heard that song on the radio. I thought some previously-undiscovered Hendrix tapes had been unearthed.
I was thinking about this, and I think I misspoke. The first song I heard by Stevie Ray Vaughan -- the one that made me think the above -- was this.

Which seems appropriate in light of the humidity around these parts the past couple of days.
__________________
Brendan

Last edited by bjkeefe; 08-06-2010 at 12:06 AM.. Reason: better sounding version
Reply With Quote
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.