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  #1  
Old 08-01-2010, 03:55 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

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  #2  
Old 08-01-2010, 04:33 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

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  #3  
Old 08-01-2010, 04:37 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
I take it that you have posted edvard munch's scream as an editorial complaint, more than as a general signifier of the sort of higher culture that your fave Alyssa alluded to regarding Opera?
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  #4  
Old 08-01-2010, 04:38 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
I take it that you have posted edvard munch's scream as an editorial complaint, more than as a general signifier of the sort of higher culture that your fave Alyssa alluded to regarding Opera?
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2010, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

People taking notes in books is the weirdest thing to me. I just don't get it. I read a lot, out of both personal love and professional obligation. But I have never, ever taken a note in or about a book I'm reading. Never. The very idea just seems very strange to me, but it also seems that I am very out of keeping with my book-reading peers.
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2010, 06:35 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default The Dangling Conversation

I invite our guests and viewers to invest three minutes in this song, written over 40 years ago by Paul Simon and performed by Simon and Garfunkel. I'm getting old now, not in great health, could go at any time I suppose. But then I wouldn't get to see what's coming up on the USA Network, or find out if Lady Gaga is. . . . Whatever.

I liked Julia Roberts' take on La Traviata in Pretty Woman: "I almost peed my pants." Right up there with The Marx Brothers, I'd say.
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2010, 07:07 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default The Self-Reflexive Scandal

I couldn't resist this little gem.
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2010, 08:06 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
I invite our guests and viewers to invest three minutes in this song, written over 40 years ago by Paul Simon and performed by Simon and Garfunkel. I'm getting old now, not in great health, could go at any time I suppose. But then I wouldn't get to see what's coming up on the USA Network, or find out if Lady Gaga is. . . . Whatever.

I liked Julia Roberts' take on La Traviata in Pretty Woman: "I almost peed my pants." Right up there with The Marx Brothers, I'd say.
Well, all right, but now you have to listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqrKe...eature=related
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2010, 08:50 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Well, all right, but now you have to listen to this:
Not one of Paul's great songs IMO, but you do get to hear the entirely-too-unsung Ray Phiri playing his Strat. Paul was always amazing at writing up tempo hits, interspersed with deep, sensitive, poetic ruminations on his time and place. Also not sure what that song has to do with this diavlog, but again, whatever.
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Not one of Paul's great songs IMO, but you do get to hear the entirely-too-unsung Ray Phiri playing his Strat. Paul was always amazing at writing up tempo hits, interspersed with deep, sensitive, poetic ruminations on his time and place. Also not sure what that song has to do with this diavlog, but again, whatever.
I loved his Graceland/Call Me Al phase...I thought it would cheer you up a little.
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:15 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
I loved his Graceland/Call Me Al phase...I thought it would cheer you up a little.
Yeah, Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints were incredible! Thanks for thinking of my well-being, Look. I'm not particularly uncheerful, although I probably come across that way. I laugh all the time, but I'm a pessimist in my genes, I think. The Pessimistic Gene -- somebody should write that book. I'll leave that as an exercise for the interested reader....
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:17 PM
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Default okay

How about this. It's my favorite S/G song, and I love this rendition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2X64xT63R8
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Yeah, Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints were incredible! Thanks for thinking of my well-being, Look. I'm not particularly uncheerful, although I probably come across that way. I laugh all the time, but I'm a pessimist in my genes, I think. The Pessimistic Gene -- somebody should write that book. I'll leave that as an exercise for the interested reader....
Glad to hear it. I suffer from that myself to a large extent. For example, if a trip or outing or plan is proposed, I immediately calculate what can go wrong. It's amazing that their are people out there who just jump in with both feet, with nary a care.
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:30 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
How about this. It's my favorite S/G song, and I love this rendition.
Brilliant! I haven't seen that performance before. I think it demonstrates what an amazing guitarist / musician Paul is. He's playing live, apparently in 100 degree weather, to a handful of people, for free. But he's duplicating almost note-for-note his studio performance of that rich and complex guitar part from the 60s. You made my day now, Look.

Since we've got a Paul Simon linkfest going, check out this one from the same period. As great as "The Boxer," IMO.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:34 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: call me al

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
It's amazing that their are people out there who just jump in with both feet, with nary a care.
I've always been boggled by that, too. My dad was a salesman, door-to-door sometimes. I once asked him how he dealt with the constant rejection. He thought a minute and said, "I just assume that everyone wants to meet me." I was absolutely bowled over by that. The idea would never have occurred to me in a million years. Folks are just wired up differently, I guess.
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  #16  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:02 PM
ragamuffinman ragamuffinman is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

I am pretty sure I have matured as a consumer of culture, becoming open-mindedly emotivist and capable of thinking about my likes/dislikes intelligently. My days of teenage rock snobbism and overzealous review-reading are long gone. Despite my growing openmindedness and many listening efforts, the highbrow realms of artistic value that where closed to me when I was younger remain closed. I don't think I'll ever be able to get into jazz, opera, and classical music.

Jazz, for instance, almost always leaves me completely unmoved. I've tried "appreciating" it for years, but it never, ever engages and excites me as much as more popular forms of music. I've tried both the "pay painfully close attention to every note" and the "just sit back and enjoy it" strategies, but neither works, even with recordings widely considered great. Ditto for 95% of the "classical" music I've sampled. It just leaves me dead. Dead.

My lack of appreciation is not for lack of trying.

If many other people are like me, highbrow old stuff has no hope whatsoever of regaining popularity. My preference for short, attention-grabbing music is immovable and boulder-like.
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:07 PM
Bloggin' Noggin Bloggin' Noggin is offline
 
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Default Opera rah rah

Most people who are intimidated by opera are probably not people who would find Mozart too unsophisticated and behind-the-times.
Anyway, it's a little ridiculous to treat Mozart condescendingly as "safe". I defy any composer, atonal or otherwise to produce a more moving aria than this (The recitative leading up to the aria is amazing as well, I think.)

(Youtube or my computer speakers aren't quite up to reproducing it properly, so if you don't like it, the sound quality may be the reason.)

If there's anything wrong with art being accessible, it's just that modern artists have to be afraid of being accessible, because the great artists of the past already used up a lot of the more immediately accessible ideas. Ideally, art should be as accessible as possible.

Last edited by Bloggin' Noggin; 08-01-2010 at 10:13 PM..
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Brilliant! I haven't seen that performance before. I think it demonstrates what an amazing guitarist / musician Paul is. He's playing live, apparently in 100 degree weather, to a handful of people, for free. But he's duplicating almost note-for-note his studio performance of that rich and complex guitar part from the 60s. You made my day now, Look.

Since we've got a Paul Simon linkfest going, check out this one from the same period. As great as "The Boxer," IMO.
Very soulful. Thanks.

I love your dad's attitude. Maybe if we all just jumped in with faith in our fellow humans (or a devil-may-care attitude), we'd be pleasantly surprised by the results.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:44 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Maybe if we all just jumped in with faith in our fellow humans (or a devil-may-care attitude), we'd be pleasantly surprised by the results.
There's a line from National Velvet that I love. Velvet (Elizabeth Taylor) asks her trainer (Mickey Rooney) how to do the jumps. He says something like, "Throw your heart over and the rest will follow." I love the sentiment and I believe it's true, but I find it terribly difficult to do in life.

I've been playing guitar and writing and singing songs for almost 50 years, but I still find it nauseatingly awful to perform. It never gets easier, and I never enjoy it. I have absolutely no clue how to get over it and just relax.
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Opera rah rah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuYQ9KRJms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin' Noggin View Post
Most people who are intimidated by opera are probably not people who would find Mozart too unsophisticated and behind-the-times.
Anyway, it's a little ridiculous to treat Mozart condescendingly as "safe". I defy any composer, atonal or otherwise to produce a more moving aria than this (The recitative leading up to the aria is amazing as well, I think.)

(Youtube or my computer speakers aren't quite up to reproducing it properly, so if you don't like it, the sound quality may be the reason.)

If there's anything wrong with art being accessible, it's just that modern artists have to be afraid of being accessible, because the great artists of the past already used up a lot of the more immediately accessible ideas. Ideally, art should be as accessible as possible.
Hello, good sir. I'm trying to ease myself into opera by listening to CD's of popular arias. I have a double CD of famous ones by various artists, and a CD of Maria Callas. Two of my favorites are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuYQ9KRJms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9piRi...eature=related

Now I just need a little black dress and to go on an adventure to the opera house. Any suggestions as to a good beginning opera?
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  #21  
Old 08-01-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
There's a line from National Velvet that I love. Velvet (Elizabeth Taylor) asks her trainer (Mickey Rooney) how to do the jumps. He says something like, "Throw your heart over and the rest will follow." I love the sentiment and I believe it's true, but I find it terribly difficult to do in life.

I've been playing guitar and writing and singing songs for almost 50 years, but I still find it nauseatingly awful to perform. It never gets easier, and I never enjoy it. I have absolutely no clue how to get over it and just relax.
I do not want to be facile here...but you practice zazen don't you? Have you tried the concentration method? Where there's no you, just the guitar? Like Herrigel who became an expert archer, sensing when the bow would release itself.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2010, 11:06 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Opera rah rah

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuYQ9KRJms Hello, good sir. I'm trying to ease myself into opera by listening to CD's of popular arias. I have a double CD of famous ones by various artists, and a CD of Maria Callas. Two of my favorites are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuYQ9KRJms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9piRi...eature=related

Now I just need a little black dress and to go on an adventure to the opera house. Any suggestions as to a good beginning opera?
I hope BN won't mind if I but in here, but a couple of good places to start are Bizet's Carmen and Puccini's Madama Butterfly. They each have multiple gorgeously beautiful arias, and I think their relative popularity speaks to their accessibility. I'd also suggest watching rather than just listening, especially if you have a TV connected to a sound system you can use. I rather like this version of Carmen:

http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Blu-ray-...0714745&sr=1-1
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2010, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Opera rah rah

Thanks, Jeff, I'll check it out!
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2010, 11:40 PM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
I do not want to be facile here...but you practice zazen don't you? Have you tried the concentration method? Where there's no you, just the guitar? Like Herrigel who became an expert archer, sensing when the bow would release itself.
Hey, Look, that's not facile at all. It's a very good question. The problem I have with zazen is that when there's no me, there's also no guitar. I can't seem to do anything in that state of mind. I've thought of going to a zendo and getting a master, but there isn't one nearby, and I don't do too well as a student, anyway. But that's taking it to the next level, I think. Staying in the "no mind" state while living one's daily life. Maybe I should try again.
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  #25  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: American Tune

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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Hey, Look, that's not facile at all. It's a very good question. The problem I have with zazen is that when there's no me, there's also no guitar. I can't seem to do anything in that state of mind. I've thought of going to a zendo and getting a master, but there isn't one nearby, and I don't do too well as a student, anyway. But that's taking it to the next level, I think. Staying in the "no mind" state while living one's daily life. Maybe I should try again.
There's a roshi in Sedona, CA I was once interested in training under. Now, I don't think I have the right stuff (I'm lazy as sin). Can't think of his name now. Maybe walking meditation would be a good place for you to start...like walking and chewing gum at the same time

A book I have recommends starting with one day a week devoted to mindfulness. But another book warns against quietism, or meditative withdrawal for it's own sake. As you may gather, I've read a great deal about Zen without putting it to practice, which I believe is called 'to stink of Zen.'
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  #26  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:02 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

If want to access Opera start with Beethoven, Mozart, "Carmen" "The Barber of Seville" or as Jeff stated "Madame Butterfly". Listen to some CD's and if you like it -attend. BTW, one reason Europeans like Opera more is because its often written in their language. No doubt Bizet is more accessible when speak you French & the same if true of the "Barber of Seville" and Italians or Wagner in German.

And Seth lost me on Markson. Never heard of him. And after reading his article, It seems I haven't missed much. "Experimental Post-Modernist" Mmmm Okaay;

And he wrote "witty" lines like "Hey Sartre, how can someone so smart be so stupid". Genius indeed.

I got the feeling years ago that fiction has turned into a female/Gay/Left-wing Ghetto - like Broadway. Not that there's anything wrong with that. This was confirmed by a stat from PW stating women buy 90 percent of all fiction.
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  #27  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:10 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: American Tune

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Originally Posted by look View Post
There's a roshi in Sedona, CA I was once interested in training under. Now, I don't think I have the right stuff (I'm lazy as sin).... As you may gather, I've read a great deal about Zen without putting it to practice, which I believe is called 'to stink of Zen.'
Is there really a Sedona in California? I was raised in Phoenix and we spent many happy weekends in Sedona, AZ. That's kind of a new age spiritual place now.

I think a lot of us have read more than practiced Zen. There's something very pristine and beautiful about Zen as a philosophy, which makes no sense at all, really, from the standpoint of Zen Mind. My experience of actually doing Zen meditation is that it is arduous at least, extremely daunting as a way of life. One needs a path that one can make progress on. I found that I wasn't getting anywhere with Zen and moved on to other pursuits. I often fall back on zazen, though, for calmness and clarity, exactly as you suggested.
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  #28  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:36 AM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

What a wonderful change of topic, thank you BhTv!

My simplistic recollection of opera is that they were the "soaps" before TV, sure the melodies are great, but the dialog is meant to be understood by the listener, the story itself is an important part of the work of art.

My personal advice is to start with a short opera like Pagliacci , read the synopsis of the story before listening, when you decide to listen to the work, listen first to the CD/MP3 with the lyrics translation.

Another work worth anyone's time is Carmina Burana
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  #29  
Old 08-02-2010, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post
Is there really a Sedona in California? I was raised in Phoenix and we spent many happy weekends in Sedona, AZ. That's kind of a new age spiritual place now.

I think a lot of us have read more than practiced Zen. There's something very pristine and beautiful about Zen as a philosophy, which makes no sense at all, really, from the standpoint of Zen Mind. My experience of actually doing Zen meditation is that it is arduous at least, extremely daunting as a way of life. One needs a path that one can make progress on. I found that I wasn't getting anywhere with Zen and moved on to other pursuits. I often fall back on zazen, though, for calmness and clarity, exactly as you suggested.
My bad:

http://www.smzc.net/pages/home.html

I learned of this roshi from reading Zen in America, which followed the paths of five American Zen masters. Very interesting read. Of all of them, I was drawn to Jokusho Kwong-roshi.

Great talking to you. I guess we should seriously try to get our Zen acts together!

An haiku I came across:

A brushwood gate,
and for a lock, this snail.

(perhaps by Basho)

'night
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  #30  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:28 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: American Tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
An haiku I came across:

A brushwood gate,
and for a lock, this snail.

(perhaps by Basho)

'night
I love Basho, although he's no Paul Simon ;-) Thanks for that, Look. Best wishes.
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  #31  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:39 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: American Tune

Forgot to include my favorite Zen proverb, not from Basho.

Sitting quietly doing nothing
Spring comes
The grass grows by itself
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  #32  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:42 AM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

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Originally Posted by ragamuffinman View Post
Jazz, for instance, almost always leaves me completely unmoved.

Listen to this Count Basie number 10 times. If at the 11th time Lester Young's entry at 0:42 doesn't move you to tears, then yes perhaps something's wrong with you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooUUhsBsvU8
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  #33  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:50 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

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Originally Posted by graz View Post
I take it that you have posted edvard munch's scream as an editorial complaint, more than as a general signifier of the sort of higher culture that your fave Alyssa alluded to regarding Opera?
I think nikkibong was just bragging about his new coffee cup.
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  #34  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:57 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: call me al

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Originally Posted by look View Post
I loved his Graceland/Call Me Al phase...I thought it would cheer you up a little.
Totally, completely, 100% agreed. I don't care what anyone says about Art or The Deeper Meaning or Significance or anything else -- that chunk of music is plain uplifting to me. Always has been. Always will be. There aren't many things that leave me as filled with hope as that music.

In this song in particular, the punctuation by the drums at the end of key sentences in the verses: buhhhh ....... bum ... buh-bump. That's my heartbeat.

And the horns, going Dah nah-nah-nah, dah nah-nah-NAH? That is the sound of children laughing.

[Added] If you ever get the chance, check Banco de Gaia's "No Rain." For me at least, the exact same strings are tugged.

[Added2] Sometimes the whole thing shows up here.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 08-02-2010 at 02:05 AM..
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:00 AM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Paul Simon is a great songwriter. Graceland is gorgeous. American tune, ah, American tune... a lovely Bach piece. I am not sure about NB's comment though. Mozart is history's best songwriter... after Bach. In fact, I can easily name half a dozen Bach arias that are miles ahead of anything Mozart ever wrote. (And I bet Mozart would agree with me. "Ah, finally, a man I can learn something from," as he pored over Bach's motets in Leipzig's St Thomas Church.)

Rock is dead. Hip hop might be dead, too (so Nas told us) but for my money it's still by far the best music around these days.

Opera: Don't you love this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zmwRitYO3w
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  #36  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:08 AM
StillmanThomas StillmanThomas is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Listen to this Count Basie number 10 times. If at the 11th time Lester Young's entry at 0:42 doesn't move you to tears, then yes perhaps something's wrong with you.
Oh man, this thread just gets better and better.
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  #37  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:15 AM
Ken Davis Ken Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Tom, Denzel and Maria Callas

One of the greatest scenes in movies revolving around one of the greatest arias in opera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtClj...eature=related
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  #38  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:16 AM
Starwatcher162536 Starwatcher162536 is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Perhaps easing you into classic by listening to a little "classic lite" may help. I've sometimes heard music like this called "Neo-Classical Rock/Metal" or "Progressive Rock"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ezp9...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhFFBAEuKMo


...and just because; http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0460724266855#

Edit:
..More (teckno?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BwZ3obaRKU&NR=1
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Last edited by Starwatcher162536; 08-02-2010 at 02:42 AM..
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  #39  
Old 08-02-2010, 02:26 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Wilhelmenia Wiggins Fernandez - "Ebben? Ne andrò lontana" - La Wally - Catalani - From the film Diva.

Barbara Bonney - Ave Maria - Franz Schubert

Luciano Pavarotti - La Donna e Mobile from Rigoletto

Jussi Björling - O Sole Mio - di Capua

Dimitri Hvorostovsky & Renee Fleming - La ci darem la mano - Don Giovanni - WA Mozart

and a record I searched two years for when I was a teenager:

Billie Holliday - Getting Some Fun Out Of Life
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:32 AM
Starwatcher162536 Starwatcher162536 is offline
 
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Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,658
Default Re: Not Some Egghead Exclusive Thing (Alyssa Rosenberg & Seth Colter Walls)

Or maybe something like the Classic Meets Cuba stuff may work a little better for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0CKS...ext=1&index=11

...this slow stuff puts me to sleep...
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