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  #1  
Old 07-14-2010, 06:02 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Further News of Teabaggers Not At All Being Racist

Welp, we didn't think it would take very long for the YORE THE REEL RASIST!!!1! huffing to begin all over Greater Wingnuttia in reaction to news of the NAACP's planned resolution. And maybe it's time to have a separate thread to keep an eye on this aspect of the teabaggers, as separate from all of their other antics, due to there being something a little less funny about this.

Let's start with the news from Buffalo:

Quote:
So to bring us around to my point today, Allen Coniglio, a self-appointed “leader” of the Ostrowski wing of the local tea party, sent this around to his small group:

Quote:
If you do nothing else in your life, you must see this. It may be the funniest thing you ever see. Hurry. They have taken this down half a dozen times but thankfully, someone keeps putting it back up. [link removed]
Allen
I won’t embed the video, because it depicts Farina as Obama, makes jokes about Joe Lieberman and the Holocaust, and likens Nancy Pelosi to a whore (she is a powerful woman, after all).
Farina being the black kid from The Little Rascals. Before Buckwheat. So, like seventy years ago. You can imagine the portrayal, if you've never seen that show yourself. Or, you can guess from this screen grab:



(h/t: Hunger Tallest Palin and John Cole)
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2010, 02:17 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default I’d Recommend a Shitload of Scotch

I’d Recommend a Shitload of Scotch

The sad thing is that Mark Williams will win this debate: more Americans will side with the teabaggers and Williams' screed than with the NAACP. (Or so I suspect.)
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:14 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: I’d Recommend a Shitload of Scotch

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I’d Recommend a Shitload of Scotch

The sad thing is that Mark Williams will win this debate: more Americans will side with the teabaggers and Williams' screed than with the NAACP. (Or so I suspect.)
What a disgrace.

Okay, place your bets:

1. After a few days, Markkk Williams speaks in the past exonerative in a windy non-apology apology -- "if feelings were hurt because some took an attempt at humor the wrong way ..." -- and takes no more heat from anyone who is not Shrill.

-- or --

2. He steps down, and teabaggers across the land turn their persecution complexes up to 11. After laying low for a month, he resumes his "work," with a slightly different title. Meanwhile, Davids Broder and Brooks lead a brigade of chin-strokers in Very Serious Contemplations about over-sensitivity among Limousine Liberals, and conclude it's mostly Obama's fault.
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:52 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default TNC's take

Occasional B'head and perennial wise man Ta-Nehisi Coates has a long blog post up (via) about recent doings. Here's just a taste.

Quote:
The NAACP's announcement initially struck me in much the same the way. But some hours of considering this have proven to me that my initial skepticism says more about the broad American narrative of race and racism, then it does about the justness of the NAACP's charge.

I think it's worth, first, considering the record of American racism, and then the record of the Tea Party and its allies. Racism tends to attract attention when it's flagrant and filled with invective. But like all bigotry, the most potent component of racism is frame-flipping--positioning the bigot as the actual victim. So the gay do not simply want to marry, they want to convert our children into sin. The Jews do not merely want to be left in peace, they actually are plotting world take-over. And the blacks are not actually victims of American power, but beneficiaries of the war against hard-working whites. This is a respectable, more sensible, bigotry, one that does not seek to name-call, preferring instead change the subject and strawman. Thus segregation wasn't necessary to keep the ******s in line, it was necessary to protect the honor of white women.
There's much more goodness.

==========

NB: The stars above do not appear in TNC's original post, nor would I have put them in. Evidently, the Comment Nanny has enabled some mindless automatic filter. We can wag our collective finger at her for this, but really, all of us who wish to have adult discussions must ultimately be deeply grateful to Lyle.

[Added] Are we also to be denied the synonym for snicker, that rhymes with chigger? You know the word <-- that is an EX-hyperlink.

[Added2: ARGH! Not even in URLs? Here.] [Added3: Or here.]

Test: s******.

FUDGE!

What about that country in Africa, or the word for acting like a cheapskate?

Test: Niger. Niggardly.

Thank the FSM for small mercies.
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2010, 11:27 AM
listener listener is offline
 
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Default Re: TNC's take

[QUOTE=bjkeefe;170075]Occasional B'head and perennial wise man Ta-Nehisi Coates has a long blog post up (via) about recent doings. Here's just a taste.



There's much more goodness.

Thanks. I've been very favorably impressed with the depth of Coates' thinking in the few other pieces of his that I've seen, and look forward to reading this one.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2010, 06:37 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: TNC's take

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Occasional B'head and perennial wise man Ta-Nehisi Coates has a long blog post up (via) about recent doings. Here's just a taste.

[...]
Ta-Nehisi tweets (via @elonjames):

Quote:
An occasional reminder as to the precise nature of the motherfuckers you are dealing with.http://bit.ly/cdSevD
That URL leads to this:

Quote:
A Final Thought

Here is former head and current spokesperson for the Tea Party Express Mark Williams satirically responding [<-- link omitted, for reasons soon to be made obvious --bjk] to the NAACP:

Quote:
[That really stupid, racist, and unfunny thing noted by Twin earlier. Or, click through to TNC's post for a copy.]
Williams has since taken the original down and posted a half-hearted justification. Mark Williams is the same man who has denounced Barack Obama as "Indonesian Muslim" and a "welfare thug." If Mark Williams is not a racist, then there are no racists in American society--a position which many, some liberals among them, no doubt find plausible.

It's been asked in comments, a few times, what good has come of the NAACP's resolution. I would not endeavor to speak for anyone but myself when I say that I owe the NAACP a debt of gratitude. I have, in my writing, a tendency to become theoretically cute, and overly enamored with my own fair-mindedness. Such vanity has lately been manifested in the form of phrases like "it's worth saying" and "it strikes me that..." or "respectfully..."

When engaging your adversaries, that approach has its place. But it's worth saying that there are other approaches and other places. Among them--respectfully administering the occasional reminder as to the precise nature of the motherfuckers you are dealing with. It strikes me that this is a most appropriate role for the nation's oldest civil rights organization.
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:09 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: TNC's take

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Ta-Nehisi tweets (via @elonjames):

Quote:
An occasional reminder as to the precise nature of the motherfuckers you are dealing with.http://bit.ly/cdSevD
That URL leads to this:

[...]
Sorry for going out of (TNC's) sequence here, but there are more posts too good not to call attention to. Here's one in particular: "Why Black Writers Tend Not to Shout."

(Aside: note diff betw URL and title.)

Excerpt:

Quote:
In 2007 Barack Obama began campaigning for the presidency. Since that time, his reception by the American Right has included claims that he is--among other things--a covert Muslim, a welfare thug, a "racist...with a deep-seated hatred of white people or the white culture," and as a president with a policy of landing on the side that "favors the black person."

During the 2008 campaign, one GOP congressman called Obama "uppity", while another referred to him as "that boy." At the Values Voters summit, vendors showed up hawking Obama Waffles, while a California Republican group sent out fake food stamps with Obama surrounded by ribs and chicken. By the end of the campaign, Palin-McCain supporters were repeatedly showing up at rallies publicly announcing that Obama was a Muslim, mocking him as a monkey and openly flaunting the fact that they opposed him because he was black. The monkey jokes continued into Obama's presidency--with South Carolina GOP activist Rusty DePass noting that an escaped gorilla was "probably just one of Michelle Obama's ancestors."

The racial nuttiness has not been limited to Obama. His first Supreme Court nominee, was dismissed as "Miss Affirmative Action 2009." His second nominee has been dismissed for having been influenced by one of the architects of desegregation. Lindsey Graham, a supposedly sensible Republican, attacked health care because it would hurt his state, which is "31 percent African-American population." (Presumably, all those people are poor, while all the white people in South Carolina are not.) When John Lewis walked to the House to vote for health care, he was called a ****** by the mob, and then called a liar for claiming as much. After Tom Tancredo opened the Tea Party convention by calling for literacy tests and asserted that, "people who could not even spell the word 'vote', or say it in English, put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House," the conventions convener lauded Tancredo for giving "a fantastic speech."

Perhaps you could argue that some of these instances aren't about race. Certainly, you could note that many of them are about race plus several other factors. But even granting those points as caveats, what you have is disturbing pattern among the GOP that sometimes floats up to the top. Black writers working in the mainstream, and even at liberal publications, are in a constant dialouge with white audiences. It is utterly useless, and to some extend brand-damaging, to repeatedly call on conservatives to repudiate racism in their midst. What many of us chose to do instead is to try to extend some sympathy, and get into the head of the offending party, in hopes of building a bridge.

I think, for those who are skeptical of the NAACP, something of a turn-about is in order. If you were black what would you think, faced with this pattern? If you were the NAACP what would you to say to this? The downside of the Obama approach, one that I still embrace, is that it tacitly supports Chait's notion that conservative opposition to Obama has "generally lacked much in the way of racial animus." I just don't think the facts bear that conclusion out--at all.

Shouting and resolutions are not my way. I firmly believe that racists, and those who work with the machinery of racism, must ultimately answer for themselves. But without someone shouting, we tend to forget and to elide uncomfortable realities that we have deemed unspeakable. I'm haunted by the words of a black Republican, who was a member of the group that sent out the Obama foodstamps. "This is what keeps African-Americans from joining the Republican Party," she said. "I'm really hurt. I cried for 45 minutes."

The leader of the group responded by asserting her support for Alan Keyes.
==========

NB: As before, neither nor TNC nor I put those stars in. That is evidently a "feature" of this site.

For the record: I sent a note about this to Bh.tv Central at around noon yesterday. So far, no response.
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2010, 01:07 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: TNC's take

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Ta-Nehisi tweets (via @elonjames):

Quote:
An occasional reminder as to the precise nature of the motherfuckers you are dealing with.http://bit.ly/cdSevD
That URL leads to this:

Quote:
A Final Thought

Here is former head and current spokesperson for the Tea Party Express Mark Williams ...



And now for some updates:

NY Daily News reported yesterday (Sunday 18 July 2010):

Quote:
"We have expelled Tea Party Express and Mark Williams from the National Tea Party Federation because of the letter that he wrote," federation spokesman David Webb said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

[...]

In a press release, the National Tea Party Federation says it ordered the Tea Party Express to kick Williams out and say so "prominently" on their Website. They did not.

Williams' response: who's the National Tea Party Federation anyway?

"There are internal political dramas amongst the various self-anointed tea party 'leaders' and some of the minor players on the fringes see the Tea Party Express and Mark Williams as tickets to a booking on Face the Nation," he said.

"There is no tea party leadership; every tea partier is a tea party leader."
And everyone gets a trophy at the Special Olympics, which I believe is Central To His Point™.

==========

[Added] TPM has more news here and here of other teabagger groups scrambling to Distance Themselves.

Media Matters wonders why CNN is still allowing him on their channel. My response: You're asking this of a station that hired Erick Erickson?
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:48 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default "Barack Obama and Eric Holder are the real racists", part 600infinity

Also, Sheila Jackson-Lee. And just in case you thought those claims weren't wingnutty enough (even if you read the earlier ones), dig this: Mel Gibson and Obama are exactly the same!!!1!, according to Commentary mag's most bestest writer evar.

(If you haven't heard Mel's recent charming telephone manner: here, here, here, and here. Yep. Comes across just like President Cool, Calm, and Collected to me. (Of course, by being sarcastic about Jennifer Rubin, I am clearly anti-Semitic. Just ask her.))
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:46 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Further News of Teabaggers Not At All Being Racist

"Yet the accusation says more about the accusers than the accused."
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:25 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Truth in ≤ 140 chars

Quote:
Andrew Breitbart who obsesses over ACORN, Black Panthers, the NAACP and the black president doesn't believe the Tea Party is racist. Okay.
TBogg, natch.
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2010, 06:36 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default John McWhorter weighs in

You'll be unsurprised by some of it, but the beginning and the end are a bit eyebrow-raising, considering the source.

Quote:
Suck It Up, Tea Partiers— the NAACP's Right On This One

Much to my surprise, I’m with Benjamin Jealous of the NAACP on this Tea Party business this week.

Jealous has called on the Tea Partiers to officially disavow the racists, such as there are, in the movement. I am pleased to see that he has been on good behavior—no melodrama, no exaggeration, no pretending it’s 1962 (which I read as one more sign that that style of race discussion is on the ropes). Complementing his call for the Tea Partiers to be explicit, he has been explicit in saying—admitting! This really is something special, folks—that the Tea Partiers themselves are not a racist body.

If he’s going to actually admit that in public, then it’s a fair trade for the Tea Partiers to speak up about racism in their organization.

[...]

Once it was clear Obama would be elected, I knew that once the honeymoon was over, a hot new issue would be explorations as whether criticisms of Obama were “racial,” and here we are. First off was the Joe Wilson eruption ("You Lie!"), and now the Tea Partiers.

So, Tea Partiers—if you’re really so concerned about the state of the country as a whole, take a time out and help us learn a lesson. Condemn racism and its expressions in your midst. Try this: likely there will be fewer of the T-shirts and envelope-pushing aspersions, which will render your message that much more effective with the media.

In the meantime, you will contribute to the nationwide sea change in the race discussion that has the NAACP approaching this issue so temperately in the first place. This is the most constructive, untheatrical statement that has come from the NAACP in eons—it’s worthy of what they were about a hundred years ago. Let’s go with it.
(h/t: @elonjames, RTing @AdamSerwer)
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2010, 03:21 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Tea Party for Dummies

This is pretty hillarious.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:57 AM
listener listener is offline
 
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Default Who's in charge here??

Of course, by now all well-informed persons are aware of the controversy over the attempted expulsion from the Tea Party Movement of Tea Party Express spokesperson Mark Willams. So, who exactly has the authority to expel a Tea Party member? One answer (libtards only need watch this, as it involves commentators whose views do not reflect those of RealAmericans™ ) :

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908...17149#38317149

My own conclusion: Ling-Ling must be expelled from his position by the appropriate authorities.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:11 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Ross Douthat's latest column, ...

... or, as TS puts it ...

Quote:
Ross Douthat's latest column of warmed-over Steve Sailerisms ...
... is something I was going to note in the Gossip about the 'heads thread, but in case it gets a lot of heated discussion, I'll do it here instead.

Also responding to Ross is Roy Edroso:

Quote:
SHORTER ROSS DOUTHAT: It's time for white reparations.

UPDATE. Aw Jeez, Holy Rod Dreher:

Quote:
One workplace of mine was proud of its diversity, but it had, as far as I could tell, not a single Pentecostal working as a reporter or editor.
That's because it's hard to take notes when you're snake-handling.
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:38 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Ross Douthat's latest column, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
... or, as TS puts it ...



... is something I was going to note in the Gossip about the 'heads thread, but in case it gets a lot of heated discussion, I'll do it here instead.

Also responding to Ross is Roy Edroso:
Just wondering, and I promise this isn't intentionally hostile: Does everyone you read do the shorter thing? I don't see it anywhere else on the internet besides places you read...is it a left wing thing? I don't see in on the lefty blogs I read either. Just curious.

The excerpt is, obviously, taken out of context. And Ross was making a pretty decent non partisan point about the solidifcation of elites and elite culture. He wrote an entire book about this, so you may think it's bunk, but it's a subject he's thought a lot about. He wasn't pulling this out of his ass.

I enjoy the logic in the insta putz link as well. Here, I can do shorters too. Shorter insta putz: Because two people at National Review liked a bad movie, conservatives can't/won't/shouldn't enjoy the arts. Also, the bigoted remark about Pentacostals was a nice touch.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:41 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Ross Douthat's latest column, ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
Just wondering, and I promise this isn't intentionally hostile: Does everyone you read do the shorter thing? I don't see it anywhere else on the internet besides places you read...is it a left wing thing? I don't see in on the lefty blogs I read either. Just curious.
As far as I can tell, it is overwhelmingly a left-blogger thing. Doing a good Shorter requires both a sense of humor and an ability to read for context. This may have something to do with why you don't see them on wingnut blogs.

It is also true that not all lefty bloggers are interested in snark -- or reading what wingnuts have to say, for that matter -- so it's not as though you should expect to see Shorters on every blog that you might call a lefty blog.

Quote:
The excerpt is, obviously, taken out of context. And Ross was making a pretty decent non partisan point about the solidifcation of elites and elite culture. He wrote an entire book about this, so you may think it's bunk, but it's a subject he's thought a lot about. He wasn't pulling this out of his ass.
I dunno. That column did nothing for me, and I say this as someone who used to read Ross regularly when he blogged at the Atlantic. Doesn't matter to me how much time he spent thinking about it if the result was as it was.

Quote:
I enjoy the logic in the insta putz link as well.
Glad to hear it.

Quote:
Here, I can do shorters too. [...]
See paragraph 1.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:45 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default "We must preserve our racial identity"

Writes Ryan J. Murdough of Ashland, NH, who continues:

Quote:
I am running as a candidate for state representative in Grafton County District 8. I am running as a Republican, but I have been endorsed by the American Third Position. I am also the American Third Position state chairman of New Hampshire. The American Third Position is a political party that stands for the interests of white Americans.

For far too long white Americans have been told that diversity is something beneficial to their existence. Statistics prove that the opposite is true. New Hampshire residents must seek to preserve their racial identity if we want future generations to have to possibility to live in such a great state. Affirmative action, illegal and legal non-white immigration, anti-white public school systems, and an anti-white media have done much damage to the United States of America and especially New Hampshire. It is time for white people in New Hampshire and across the country to take a stand. We are only 8 percent of the world's population and we need our own homeland, just like any other non-white group of people deserve their own homeland.

What will happen to New Hampshire once it is only 60, 50 or 40 percent white? Statistics show that areas with high non-white populations have higher rates of violent crime. New Hampshire has one of the lowest rates of violent crime in the country, but that will change as the white population percentage declines and the non-white population percentage increases. I urge New Hampshire residents to go to the American Third Position website and read for yourself what it is all about.
(To save you a Google, here is the website, and here is the Wikipedia entry.)

Think Progress, who called the above to my attention (via Blue Texan), observes:

Quote:
Murdough is running as a Republican because it’s easier to get on the ballot, but the party immediately “disowned him as a candidate on their ticket,” calling him a “despicable racist” and a “fraud.”
Hurrah!

Quote:
But Murdough has no love lost for the GOP, complaining, “they’ve sold white people out.”
Quote:
It’s unclear whether Murdough is a tea partier, but in the comments section of the Monitor’s website [same place the above letter to the editor was published --bjk], where Murdough is very active, he wrote, “I think the Tea Party movement is doing great things.” His rhetoric in the comments often reflects that of the movement, and he repeatedly advises the the tea party to “embrace the fact [that] there is a racial aspect to the movement.” “White people need to stop wasting time arguing about how they are not racist,” he said in one comment, adding in another:

Quote:
The Tea Party at its core is all about race but most of the Tea Partiers do not even realize it. They downplay the race issue every chance they get because they are afraid of being perceived as racist.
He also called on them to stop the “jewish appeasing.” “If the Republicans continue to put out weak, israel first, zionist, anti white, neo cons, the tea party will be for nothing,” Murdough warned.

In an interview, Murdough denied that he is a racist ...
... and you'll just have to read the rest for yourself, because you wouldn't believe me if I quoted it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:29 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: "We must preserve our racial identity"

Sigh. Who knew Pat Buchanan had a slightly more racist doppelganger?
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:50 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: "We must preserve our racial identity"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Writes Ryan J. Murdough of Ashland, NH, who continues: [...]
Second verse, same as the first. Except a different lead singer.

Quote:
White Pride Group Urges Tea Party to Flaunt Its Bigotry

Is the Tea Party racist? The NAACP thinks so. And the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white pride group, agrees.

Of course the Tea Party is racist, crowed a blog post on the Council's website yesterday -- and it would be proud of its racism if it weren't wussy.

The post was written by James Edwards, a radio show host and author of Racism Schmacism. His website, the Political Cesspool, declares as its motto: "Conservatism is dead. Liberalism has no answers. What comes next? The rise of ethnopolitics."

After the NAACP passed a recent resolution condemning the Tea Party as a bunch of bigots, the ragtag band of would-be American revolutionaries launched into denials. That's because they're week-kneed, lily-livered racists whose instinct is to "bend over and grab their ankles", wrote Edwards, who ...
Spends too much time listening to Rush Limbaugh?

Pardon me. Please continue.

Quote:
... wrote Edwards, who suggested they connect with their inner-cackling villains:

"Instead of replying with a loud BWAHAHAHA! or a 'Yeah? What's your point?' or 'So what?' or 'Of course we're racists - we're white people. That's what "racist" means' or 'Can any of you race hustlers even spell "racist"?' The Tea Party predictably went into their usual bend over and grab their ankles mode. They protested that oh no, we're not racists at all, we don't tolerate racists at our rallies which are really huge rainbow coalitions."

Edwards is right. The Tea Party is hiding the truth about itself: Racist groups are quietly welcomed at its starchy street fairs, even right here in Florida.


Last January, a state chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) set up shop at a Tea Party rally in Invernness, Citrus County. Senate candidate and Tea-Party darling Marco Rubio headlined the event, while the CCC handed out pamphlets and swag.
Emph. added.

The Council of Conservative Citizens used to go by a different name, as Josh Marshall reminds us:

Quote:
... a neo-segregationist group called the "Council of Conservative Citizens", the successor group to the White Citizens Councils from the Civil Rights Era.
You remember hearing about them, right? See here, here, here, and here to start, if not.
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  #21  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:18 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default "Race, to the bottom."

Good post on the "rageaholic race-baiting techniques of Andrew Breitbart."
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:29 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: "Race, to the bottom."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Good post on the "rageaholic race-baiting techniques of Andrew Breitbart."
More on NotSoBreitbart and BowTiedTwerp Rage Manufacturing, LLC: two from TBogg: "John King Missing the Point" and "Tucker Carlson is not a complete douchebag failure."

[Added] No, wait. Three: "Jonah Goldberg Presents: A Teachable Moment."

Chi's Holy Trinity, in other words.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:46 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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More on NotSoBreitbart and BowTiedTwerp Rage Manufacturing, LLC: two from TBogg: "John King Missing the Point" and "Tucker Carlson is not a complete douchebag failure."

[Added] No, wait. Three: "Jonah Goldberg Presents: A Teachable Moment."

Chi's Holy Trinity, in other words.
Well, I appreciate a guy using presumptions about a person to make bad jokes as much as the next guy, but maybe you could do a bit better in your last sentence than random strawmans. I'm not going to get into much depth responding to your random assumptions, but I'm pretty indifferent to Tucker Carlson (I actually thought the jokes about his bow tie were funny, but only the first 8234 times) and I like Andrew Breitbart, but have no obsessive love for him. Don't read either of their websites. But yeah, clearly they're part of my holy trinity.

And oh, by the way, I'm sure Jonah says plenty of things to get you sweating up an incoherent mad rage, so why do you need to then use statements where he's mostly agreeing with your side in order to slander him? Save it for the good stuff, otherwise you start to look obsessive.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:47 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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But yeah, clearly they're part of my holy trinity.
See? Admitting it is the first step, and it makes you feel better, too, doesn't it?
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:53 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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See? Admitting it is the first step, and it makes you feel better, too, doesn't it?
Weren't you whining the other day about using quotes to take people out of context as agains the forum rules?
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:41 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Weren't you whining the other day about using quotes to take people out of context as agains the forum rules?
No. First of all, I never whine. I leave that to ref-working wingnuts, such as yourself.

Second, if I was remarking on anything to do with quotes, it was probably in response to Whatfur once again putting words that were not actually said by someone in a linked-blockquote labeled with that person's username. This, as every employee of Bh.tv and member of the community knows, is explicitly frowned upon by this site's Comment guidelines for the Bloggingheads Community.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:45 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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No. First of all, I never whine. I leave that to ref-working wingnuts, such as yourself.

Second, if I was remarking on anything to do with quotes, it was probably in response to Whatfur once again putting words that were not actually said by someone in a linked-blockquote labeled with that person's username. This, as every employee of Bh.tv and member of the community knows, is explicitly frowned upon by this site's Comment guidelines for the Bloggingheads Community.
Well, you whine constantly, but that's not the point. Any statement that involves a person saying "I never" then followed by a common human action is rarely true. And you may want to re-examine the "ref working" meme, as I'm guessing most people have no idea what the hell you're talking about it, and even if they do, it's not at all compelling. To the point, you don't think intentionally quoting out of context to make a bad joke might be frowned upon as well?
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:58 PM
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Shorter chi-guy:

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I know you are but what am I? [And then more ref-working. Of course.]
Here's five cents, kid. Go buy yourself some debating skills.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:55 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Well, I appreciate a guy using presumptions about a person to make bad jokes as much as the next guy, but maybe you could do a bit better in your last sentence than random strawmans. I'm not going to get into much depth responding to your random assumptions, but I'm pretty indifferent to Tucker Carlson (I actually thought the jokes about his bow tie were funny, but only the first 8234 times) and I like Andrew Breitbart, but have no obsessive love for him. Don't read either of their websites. But yeah, clearly they're part of my holy trinity.
What do you like about Breitbart? His intellectual dishonesty? His support for racism (see James O'Keefe)? His personal dishonesty (also see James O'Keefe, e.g.)? His explicit Republican ratfucking operation? That he's generating copycats like Carlson? You say a lot of things that make you seem like you at least want to deal in a fair-minded way. So, what about Breitbart makes you think any part of what he's about serves that laudable goal?
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:08 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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What do you like about Breitbart? His intellectual dishonesty? His support for racism (see James O'Keefe)? His personal dishonesty (also see James O'Keefe, e.g.)? His explicit Republican ratfucking operation? That he's generating copycats like Carlson? You say a lot of things that make you seem like you at least want to deal in a fair-minded way. So, what about Breitbart makes you think any part of what he's about serves that laudable goal?
I do want to deal in a fair minded way! And I have no problem with you asking questions like this. That's how it's supposed to work. I appreciate you at least asking the question instead of making a bad joke, like others.

So yeah, I generally appreciate the muckraking Andrew does. I think that exposing despicable corruption in places like ACORN is a laudable thing, and no one else is going to do it. Investigative journalism tends (emphasize on the choice of tends instead of is) to be left leaning, so if Andrew doesn't do this work, no one else will. It's the rights way of punching back.

As for O'Keefe...I don't think he knew of O'Keefe and that picture. I doubt he did deep background checks on the people he asked to do these stings. I don't remember, but I'm guessing he defend O'Keefe after the picture came out? That's not great, but I think we're all guilty at times of defending bad actions from those we consider our friends, or at least to be on our side. I don't really know what you mean by explicit Republican ratfucking operation. I don't really buy the personal dishonesty thing either.

In terms of Andrew serving the goal of dealing with things in a fair minded way: He doesn't serve that goal. He's in a dirty business, and people in dirty businesses get their hands dirty. He's not elevating the discourse, and I'm sure he would admit as much. But he's punching back. And we needed someone like that. It's not pretty, and not always laudable. But also keep in mind Breitbart is...kind of a rodeo clown. That's certainly true, and that has all the negatives associated with that line of business. So I dunno. I'll try and punctuate my thoughts about Breitbart while promoting The Hold Steady at the same time: "Some nights, it's just entertainment and some other nights it's work"
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:19 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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I do want to deal in a fair minded way! And I have no problem with you asking questions like this. That's how it's supposed to work. I appreciate you at least asking the question instead of making a bad joke, like others.

So yeah, I generally appreciate the muckraking Andrew does. I think that exposing despicable corruption in places like ACORN is a laudable thing, and no one else is going to do it. Investigative journalism tends (emphasize on the choice of tends instead of is) to be left leaning, so if Andrew doesn't do this work, no one else will. It's the rights way of punching back.

As for O'Keefe...I don't think he knew of O'Keefe and that picture. I doubt he did deep background checks on the people he asked to do these stings. I don't remember, but I'm guessing he defend O'Keefe after the picture came out? That's not great, but I think we're all guilty at times of defending bad actions from those we consider our friends, or at least to be on our side. I don't really know what you mean by explicit Republican ratfucking operation. I don't really buy the personal dishonesty thing either.

In terms of Andrew serving the goal of dealing with things in a fair minded way: He doesn't serve that goal. He's in a dirty business, and people in dirty businesses get their hands dirty. He's not elevating the discourse, and I'm sure he would admit as much. But he's punching back. And we needed someone like that. It's not pretty, and not always laudable. But also keep in mind Breitbart is...kind of a rodeo clown. That's certainly true, and that has all the negatives associated with that line of business. So I dunno. I'll try and punctuate my thoughts about Breitbart while promoting The Hold Steady at the same time: "Some nights, it's just entertainment and some other nights it's work"
Defending O'Keefe in edited videos that don't show how entire conversations transpired is simply, inarguably dishonest. I see no defense at all. Defending O'Keefe in a pimp suit(!) putting on a ridiculous show while haranguing black people is at best ignoring the appearance of racism. Twice now going after black organizations with dishonestly edited records and making lying claims about the people those videos purport to expose is a pattern that suggests either racism or the intent to use racism to further political ends - which I take to be morally indistinguishable from actual racism.

This is not just "entertainment." People lives are ruined by Breitbart's antics.

And please show evidence of "despicable corruption in places like ACORN." Street level contractors scamming ACORN on voter registrations doesn't seem to apply here. Either you have an argument for why it should, or you need another claim, in my opinion.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:33 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Defending O'Keefe in edited videos that don't show how entire conversations transpired is simply, inarguably dishonest. I see no defense at all. Defending O'Keefe in a pimp suit(!) putting on a ridiculous show while haranguing black people is at best ignoring the appearance of racism. Twice now going after black organizations with dishonestly edited records and making lying claims about the people those videos purport to expose is a pattern that suggests either racism or the intent to use racism to further political ends - which I take to be morally indistinguishable from actual racism.

This is not just "entertainment." People lives are ruined by Breitbart's antics.

And please show evidence of "despicable corruption in places like ACORN." Street level contractors scamming ACORN on voter registrations doesn't seem to apply here. Either you have an argument for why it should, or you need another claim, in my opinion.
I think you get more mileage out of the dishonesty claim. For the record, neither one of will ever acquire dispositive evidence about the video editing, as Breitbart claims he simply posted the video that he received without cutting it. I'm sure you don't believe him, but it's certainly within the realm of possiblitiy that he's telling the truth (I'm not saying I necessarily believe him, I'm kind of agnostic on it). The sentence about O'Keefe "haranguing" black people strikes me as odd. Why does it have to be about their race? He could have just been haranguing people running a pretty awful operation, regardless of their race. And when you're in the business that Breitbar is in, I'm not sure you get picky about race. I think he's looking for low hanging fruit, things that he knows will make a splash. I realize making a splash isn't mutually exclusive with racially tinged intentions, but I'm pretty sure he's just looking to make some noise and knock some heads around.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:25 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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I think you get more mileage out of the dishonesty claim. For the record, neither one of will ever acquire dispositive evidence about the video editing, as Breitbart claims he simply posted the video that he received without cutting it. I'm sure you don't believe him, but it's certainly within the realm of possiblitiy that he's telling the truth (I'm not saying I necessarily believe him, I'm kind of agnostic on it). The sentence about O'Keefe "haranguing" black people strikes me as odd. Why does it have to be about their race? He could have just been haranguing people running a pretty awful operation, regardless of their race. And when you're in the business that Breitbar is in, I'm not sure you get picky about race. I think he's looking for low hanging fruit, things that he knows will make a splash. I realize making a splash isn't mutually exclusive with racially tinged intentions, but I'm pretty sure he's just looking to make some noise and knock some heads around.
I think O'Keefe has already made it about race, himself. Blumenthal seems to have him dead to rights:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...e_nationalists
http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/02/oke...macist-confab/

And dressing up in an ugly, stereotypical pimp outfit and talking like a character out of Baretta in order to pull a trick on black folks (and what about conservative problems with ACORN seems isn't about people being black and having a loyalty to the Democratic party?) doesn't betray to me a sense of proportion or understanding in regard to racial issues.

One problem with Breitbart, (and Rush, and Beck, and ad nauseaum,) is the explicit use of racial resentment to fire people up. It's clear that that's what they're doing, and it's clear that it works. (Which is why Hillary Clinton's campaign stooped to it during the last round of Presidential primaries. It isn't just Republicans.)

And we still haven't established the "awfulness" of ACORN - the purpose of which was to mitigate the disenfranchisement of people of color in this country. There have been no good arguments put on the table for why ACORN itself represents a problem, except insofar as it's successful at getting blacks to vote - and blacks often vote for Democrats.

Breitbart's claims about editing are undermined by his failure to produce complete source video during the O'Keefe debacle despite clearly having it to offer.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:54 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: "Race, to the bottom."

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I think O'Keefe has already made it about race, himself. Blumenthal seems to have him dead to rights:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...e_nationalists
http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/02/oke...macist-confab/

And dressing up in an ugly, stereotypical pimp outfit and talking like a character out of Baretta in order to pull a trick on black folks (and what about conservative problems with ACORN seems isn't about people being black and having a loyalty to the Democratic party?) doesn't betray to me a sense of proportion or understanding in regard to racial issues.

[...]

Breitbart's claims about editing are undermined by his failure to produce complete source video during the O'Keefe debacle despite clearly having it to offer.
It should be emphasized, since all too many people are unaware of it, that James O'Keefe's costume was never worn into any meetings with ACORN people when he was doing his so-called "stings." The videotape was edited to make it look like he did, but once the raw stuff was pried out of his and Breitbart's grubby little paws by subpoena, the truth finally came out. (Pretty sure the same goes for Hannah Giles, although it's less clear what it might mean for her to "dress like a prostitute," compared to JO'K's Wal-Mart Vanilla Ice get-up.)

Too late, of course, for millions of poor people who were getting some useful help from ACORN. But hey, "if Andrew doesn't do this work, no one else will. [...] And we needed someone like that."

"We," of course, being conservatives who like nothing finer than having their fears of Teh Blaxx "validated," no matter how dishonestly it's done.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:07 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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It should be emphasized, since all too many people are unaware of it, that James O'Keefe's costume was never worn into any meetings with ACORN people when he was doing his so-called "stings." The videotape was edited to make it look like he did, but once the raw stuff was pried out of his and Breitbart's grubby little paws by subpoena, the truth finally came out. (Pretty sure the same goes for Hannah Giles, although it's less clear what it might mean for her to "dress like a prostitute," compared to JO'K's Wal-Mart Vanilla Ice get-up.)

Too late, of course, for millions of poor people who were getting some useful help from ACORN. But hey, "if Andrew doesn't do this work, no one else will. [...] And we needed someone like that."

"We," of course, being conservatives who like nothing finer than having their fears of Teh Blaxx "validated," no matter how dishonestly it's done.
Well, I'll try and avoid the pedantic punditry about liberal epistemic closure in Jeff not realizing that the outfit was never worn. Just keep in mind that smart people like Jeff get things like this mixed up, and it's not necessarily an indicment of media cocoons when it happens on either side. So, let's just keep that in mind.

For the record, despite your moaning about an evil man destroying a good organization like ACORN, large chunks of the organization were already going bankrupt, independent of Andrew Breitbart. There are also accusations of fraud and embezzlement that started well before the videos. Also, it wasn't just one video; these were in multiple cities with different people. Try and also keep in mind that the resolution Congress passed to kill federal funding for ACORN was later overturned. At the end of the day, ACORN may have been helping people. But I don't think that means that you shouldn't release this kind of information if you have it, and it wasn't Breitbart alone that sunk this ship.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:25 PM
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Well, I'll try and avoid ...
Use try to. You're introducing an infinitive.

The rest of your wingnut regurgitation has been ignored, due to its staleness.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:44 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Well, I'll try and avoid the pedantic punditry about liberal epistemic closure in Jeff not realizing that the outfit was never worn. Just keep in mind that smart people like Jeff get things like this mixed up, and it's not necessarily an indicment of media cocoons when it happens on either side. So, let's just keep that in mind.

For the record, despite your moaning about an evil man destroying a good organization like ACORN, large chunks of the organization were already going bankrupt, independent of Andrew Breitbart. There are also accusations of fraud and embezzlement that started well before the videos. Also, it wasn't just one video; these were in multiple cities with different people. Try and also keep in mind that the resolution Congress passed to kill federal funding for ACORN was later overturned. At the end of the day, ACORN may have been helping people. But I don't think that means that you shouldn't release this kind of information if you have it, and it wasn't Breitbart alone that sunk this ship.
Let's be clear, O'keefe did wear the pimp outfit. Brendan was right to point out that he didn't use it when he in the midst of the videoed confrontations - but that doesn't detract from the apparent racism charge. I doubt that the state of my knowledge about that particular fact is a strong indication of "epistemic closure" on my part, or on the part of left more generally. (For the record: I'd forgotten and I should have looked it up before I posted. Mea culpa.)

I'm still arguing that your assertions about ACORN are just tendentious. There are no charges of fraud or embezzlement, that I can find, that both implicate the organization and have a basis in fact - there's been plenty of buzz in the right-o-sphere on those points, but that's evidence of what, exactly?
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:21 PM
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Default "Breitbart Posts Another Partial Clip with Another Race-Baiting Title"

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Meanwhile, even after everyone has seen the full video and knows that Andrew Breitbart’s out of context clip was promoting a lie, Breitbart is still trying to destroy Shirley Sherrod’s reputation. Last night he posted another out of context clip at Breitbart TV, with the lurid title: Shirley Sherrod Laments Land Being Sold to White Man.

As I predicted, these cretins won’t back down — they’re redoubling their efforts to smear Sherrod.
(source | via (rt via))
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:17 PM
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Default An interesting wrinkle in the further unfolding of the Breitbart smear campaign against Sherrod

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It's also important to understand that Andrew Breitbart's timing of the release of the grossly distorted video of Sherrod, which he admits having had for weeks, may not be entirely random. Congress will soon vote on whether to fund part of a settlement between the USDA and African-American farmers who faced acknowledged discrimination -- farmers like Sherrod and her husband used to be. It's a tiny piece of the upcoming war supplemental bill.

The USDA settlements with African-American farmers are a longtime bête noire of the right, which they deem a giveaway to a core Democratic constituency. It's not clear whether Brietbart's release of the video was specifically intended to hurt the chances of other African-America farmers to receive recompense from decades of discrimination that caused them to lose their farms, but conservatives immediately used the video to attack the settlement. The discrimination claims, known globally as the Pigford settlement, is the elephant in the room, so here's the background.
The rest.

And a follow-up here.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:15 PM
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Default Further Commentary on Teabaggers Not At All Being Racist

Two excerpts ...

Quote:
On the Tea Party side, I’ve decided it isn’t even necessary to have the debate over whether or not the Tea Partiers are racists. It’s enough to point out that the Tea Party and its sympathizers contain too many people like Andrew Breitbart (the idiot blogger from the Big Government website who originally posted the Sherrod video), Bill O’Reilly, and Glenn Beck, all of whom popped huge public woodies the moment the Sherrod video surfaced.

It’s just not necessary to say whether or not these people are racists. All that needs to be pointed out is that when they get a chance to gape at a video purporting to show a black Obama official confessing to having mistreated a white farmer (it turned out to be the opposite of that, of course), or a tape of Black Panther King Shamir talking about “killing cracker babies,” the word that best describes the emotions they display at these times is glee.

They enjoy these morbid stories about offenses to white dignity way too much.
Quote:
At every Tea Party event I’ve gone to, the scene always devolves in one of two directions: either everybody trades stories about the corruption of Charlie Rangel or ACORN or Jeremiah Wright or some other notable nonwhite villain, or else a group therapy session breaks out in which everybody shares their harrowing experiences of being unjustly accused of racism. Once they reach one of those two destinations, they camp out there, conversationally, not just for minutes but hours.
... from here.
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