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  #1  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:30 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

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  #2  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:00 AM
KingFish KingFish is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

I'll miss my favorite Flirtingheads (outside of Bob and Mickey, of course!) when they go the way of all electrons.....
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:28 AM
David Edenden David Edenden is offline
 
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Default Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

The way that the Socialist Republic of the Great White North handles the issues below can serve as a model for the Republican Party in the US.

(Yeah ... you read it right the first time!)


(Pitch CNN ... Canada is EXCEPTIONAL!)

No "Death Tax"

Illegal Immigration - no problem (people land in Canada only to be smuggled into the US.)

Federal Department of Education (none in Canada)

Bank Regulations, Bailouts, Housing Collapse, etc ... what we did right!

Debt, Deficit and economic growth ... Canada better!

Energy ... Canada has Tar Sands and developed them, US has oil shale but did nothing ... American are wimps!

Note - Heath insurance is too complicate*d and has been done to death (pun intended) ... but you could interview or survey Canadian "Snowbirds*" in Florida to see what they say. They are generally upper middle class and have experience with both systems.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:50 AM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
The way that the Socialist Republic of the Great White North handles the issues below can serve as a model for the Republican Party in the US.

Energy ... Canada has Tar Sands and developed them, US has oil shale but did nothing ... American are wimps!.
Canada seems to be exiting their girly-man position on Kyoto as well (even our dem senators had more testosterone), avoiding almost $7 bil in shakedown payments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Edenden View Post
Heath insurance is too complicate*d and has been done to death (pun intended) ... but you could interview or survey Canadian "Snowbirds*" in Florida to see what they say. They are generally upper middle class and have experience with both systems.
Not only the "Snowbirds", but also those who come south for superior care and/or to avoid waiting months/years/posthumously ("done to death" - pun intended) for treatment.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:43 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by harkin View Post
Not only the "Snowbirds", but also those who come south for superior care and/or to avoid waiting months/years/posthumously ("done to death" - pun intended) for treatment.
I grew up a couple miles from Canada, so I've known Canadians my whole life. I've worked for 18 years at a Michigan-based international corporation where we hire hundreds of Canadians. I haven't talked about health care with all of them, of course, but I have talked to a lot of them about it -- and have yet to talk to single one would trade the Canadian health care system for the disaster we have in the United States.

We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2011, 12:25 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I grew up a couple miles from Canada, so I've known Canadians my whole life. I've worked for 18 years at a Michigan-based international corporation where we hire hundreds of Canadians. I haven't talked about health care with all of them, of course, but I have talked to a lot of them about it -- and have yet to talk to single one would trade the Canadian health care system for the disaster we have in the United States.

We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
Most Americans will go to their (relatively early) graves thinking they have the best health care system in the world, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including rates of longevity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:19 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Most Americans will go to their (relatively early) graves thinking they have the best health care system in the world, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including rates of longevity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
There are plenty of reasons for the difference in longevity, not necessarily related to the quality of health care.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
There are plenty of reasons for the difference in longevity, not necessarily related to the quality of health care.
True, but longevity, or life expectancy, is related to overall care. Doctors in France, in my experience, place more emphasis on preventive medicine and healthy lifestyles. There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2011, 03:43 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
True, but longevity, or life expectancy, is related to overall care. Doctors in France, in my experience, place more emphasis on preventive medicine and healthy lifestyles.
The highlighted portion is the most relevant factor, IMO, and it is separate from health care. It is a matter of personal choice. The problem of obesity in the United States is a cultural problem, and so not really tied to any kind of health care deficiency. And that is just one huge example of the difference.

Quote:
There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world.
I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France.
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:04 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France.
That depends on what you mean by "racially" diverse. There are real ethnic/religious/racial minorities in metropolitan France and its overseas "départements" (la Martinique, Guadaloupe, Guyane, La Réunion) but there are not, as far as I know, significant differences in infant mortality rates (I may be wrong). There are, as you say, significant differences in the US.

Last edited by Florian; 12-04-2011 at 04:06 PM..
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:57 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
That depends on what you mean by "racially" diverse. There are real ethnic/religious/racial minorities in metropolitan France and its overseas "départements" (la Martinique, Guadaloupe, Guyane, La Réunion) but there are not, as far as I know, significant differences in infant mortality rates (I may be wrong). There are, as you say, significant differences in the US.
In fact, you are wrong.

Martinique: 6.95 per 1,000 births
French Guiana: 11.76 per 1,000 births
France: 3.4 per 1,000 births

Where France is racially diverse, it has a higher mortality rates. It may disturb some people here, but some races are prone to certain genetic diseases which kill infants more than others. Sorry (ohreally), that disease can be racist.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:28 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
In fact, you are wrong.

Martinique: 6.95 per 1,000 births
French Guiana: 11.76 per 1,000 births
France: 3.4 per 1,000 births

Where France is racially diverse, it has a higher mortality rates. It may disturb some people here, but some races are prone to certain genetic diseases which kill infants more than others. Sorry (ohreally), that disease can be racist.
Isn't the fact that infant mortality is correlated to low income at the individual level or gdp at the country level a more likely explanation than innate genetic predisposition of certain racial groups?
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Isn't the fact that infant mortality is correlated to low income at the individual level or gdp at the country level a more likely explanation than innate genetic predisposition of certain racial groups?
Of course, but as your graph notes, there is a substantial drop off between what is actually low income, globally, and what we're talking about "low income" in the West. Thus, the genetic factors have a higher impact in wealthier nations for these measurements. In any case, why is this a controversial observation? Sickle Cell anemia, for example, has a higher incidence among certain racial and ethnic groups; sickle cell anemia killed as many as 100,000 infants in Nigeria.

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=79916

It stands to reason that the more diverse your population, the more things like this skew the figures. I've read that black Americans actually suffer from SIDS at twice the rate as whites.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:12 PM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
It stands to reason that the more diverse your population, the more things like this skew the figures.
In fact, no. There's is zero evidence that African-American infant deaths have a genetic factor that's more than noise. If you count only white America, the rate is 5.6, which puts the US in position 24 out of 30 in the OECD ranking (tiny improvement from 28).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...mortality.html

Too bad we can't blame it on the shitty genes of nonwhites, that most American of excuses.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
In fact, no. There's is zero evidence that African-American infant deaths have a genetic factor that's more than noise. If you count only white America, the rate is 5.6, which puts the US in position 24 out of 30 in the OECD ranking (tiny improvement from 28).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...mortality.html

Too bad we can't blame it on the shitty genes of nonwhites, that most American of excuses.
That chart seems to reinforce my view, rather than yours. I think genetic illness is a serious problem that needs to be addressed by scientists; not some politically incorrect factor that needs to be swept under the rug.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:45 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Indeed, if we look at this chart:



We see how this breaks down. Now, if this was simply a matter of some leftist economic grievance, it seems to me that Mexicans would be suffering at the same level as blacks, or Puerto Ricans. Mexicans have even better infant mortality rates than whites.

Theories?
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2011, 09:54 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
...blacks...
It never fails to amaze (and disgust) me how conservatives can find a way to blame blacks (or gays, or Muslims, or other minority groups) for whatever the social ill of the day happens to be.

Do you suppose that having 40 or 50 millions uninsured citizens might be a factor in some of our health woes?
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:26 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

Quote:
Quoting TwinSwords: It never fails to amaze (and disgust) me how conservatives can find a way to blame blacks (or gays, or Muslims, or other minority groups) for whatever the social ill of the day happens to be.
Funny, it never fails to amaze me how people like you can find a way to blame conservatives for whatever the social ill of the day happens to be.

Quote:
Do you suppose that having 40 or 50 millions uninsured citizens might be a factor in some of our health woes?


When you hear “46 million uninsured,” or “1 in 6 Americans don’t have health insurance,” remember that this is technically correct but misleading. The more important question is, “How many uninsured people need additional help from taxpayers?”
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-04-2011 at 10:52 PM..
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:36 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Funny, it never fails to amaze me how people like you can find a way to blame conservatives for whatever the social ill of the day happens to be.
I assume Twinswords deleted his slander.
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:39 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex and the Eurozone (Daniel Drezner & Megan McArdle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I assume Twinswords deleted his slander.
but I caught the little bugger!

and now, miraculously, it has been re-instated. Clever these Chinese!
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Last edited by badhatharry; 12-04-2011 at 11:13 PM..
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2011, 11:16 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
It never fails to amaze (and disgust) me how conservatives can find a way to blame blacks (or gays, or Muslims, or other minority groups) for whatever the social ill of the day happens to be.

Do you suppose that having 40 or 50 millions uninsured citizens might be a factor in some of our health woes?
I think badhat dealt with your "40 or 50 million" uninsured quite nicely.

As to "blaming" people, who knows what you're talking about? Hysterical, perhaps? I'm not "blaming" anyone. Infant mortality is what it is; I have no great personal investment in it. I'm simply explaining why a multi-ethnic society has different realities than a homogenous one.

Wrap your brain around that one. Cause and effect, trippy man.
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2011, 06:11 AM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
We see how this breaks down. Now, if this was simply a matter of some leftist economic grievance, it seems to me that Mexicans would be suffering at the same level as blacks, or Puerto Ricans. Mexicans have even better infant mortality rates than whites.

Theories?
Do you have thoughts about the dramatic genetic differences between Cubans and Puerto Ricans that must underly the chart?
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:52 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Do you have thoughts about the dramatic genetic differences between Cubans and Puerto Ricans that must underly the chart?
I wouldn't want to speculate. I imagine there are a large number of factors. Some of which certainly are genetic, since island living seems to accentuate some of these issues. For example, in Trinidad and Tobago, there is a VERY elevated risk of prostate cancer among the male population there. It is even higher than the risk for black Americans, here:

Prostate cancer is a very serious personal and public health problem affecting African Americans more frequently than Caucasians. On the basis of 1990–1997 data from the U.S. SEER4 of the National Cancer Institute (1) , age-adjusted incidence of prostate cancer is 225 of 100,000 among African Americans compared with 149 of 100,000 among white non-Hispanics. The mortality rate from prostate cancer was >2-fold higher among persons of African descent (54 of 100,000) compared with white non-Hispanics (23 of 100,000). Incidence of prostate cancer in the United States increased dramatically in both groups between the late 1980s and 1993, reflecting the earlier diagnosis that occurred with the increasing use of serum PSA screening (1) .

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/8/726.long

Prostate cancer is the leading cause of cancer related death in Tobago. Now, why is that? It seems plausible to me that if people of African decent have a higher susceptibility to it, and a place like Tobago is settled with people with an above average set of markers for it, then after enough time, the population will skew.

Of course, I think environmental factors also play a role. Islands are strange tide pools for genetic drift.

So what do you think is the reason for the disparity between infant mortality between blacks and Mexicans? You wouldn't argue poverty in that case, would you?
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2011, 04:55 PM
ohreally ohreally is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Florian says: "There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world."

STD replies: "I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France."

The US ranks 28 out of 30 in the OECD infant mortality rate ranking. But I bet if we gave white infants extra weight in the counting, we'd come off much better. Are you suggesting, STD, counting black kids as, I don't know, say, three-fifth? I bet no one has ever thought of that!
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:59 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Florian says: "There is also universal pre-natal and post-natal care, the absence of which in the US affects overall life expectancy rates. Infant mortality rates in the US are among the highest in the developed world."

STD replies: "I don't think that is necessarily true. As I understand it, there are significant differences in infant mortality by race; and we have a much more racially diverse nation than France."

The US ranks 28 out of 30 in the OECD infant mortality rate ranking. But I bet if we gave white infants extra weight in the counting, we'd come off much better. Are you suggesting, STD, counting black kids as, I don't know, say, three-fifth? I bet no one has ever thought of that!
Are you suggesting that there aren't differentials in susceptibility of genetic disease between races? Are you anti-science?
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:54 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Are you suggesting that there aren't differentials in susceptibility of genetic disease between races? Are you anti-science?
In fact, among the known susceptibilities to disease, it comes out to a wash in terms of mortality. The usualy understanding of the racial differences in mortality in the US is differences in access to, or use of, medical services.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
In fact, among the known susceptibilities to disease, it comes out to a wash in terms of mortality.
What did you have in mind as an example for a counterweight? Cystic fibrosis? As I understand it, they've managed to make pretty heavy advances in combating newborn deaths from CB.

Quote:
The usualy understanding of the racial differences in mortality in the US is differences in access to, or use of, medical services.
And there is the matter I'm raising.
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:11 PM
Romanized Romanized is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
The US ranks 28 out of 30 in the OECD infant mortality rate ranking. But I bet if we gave white infants extra weight in the counting, we'd come off much better. Are you suggesting, STD, counting black kids as, I don't know, say, three-fifth? I bet no one has ever thought of that!
It's not an apples to apples comparison. The US counts infant moralities differently. Not to mention teen pregnancies weigh heavily in this number.
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

It's true that there are many different variables in play, such that looking simply at mortality rates is a poor way of measuring the effectiveness of the provision of health care in a given country. That's why it's nice that smart people out there have worked very hard to quantify the rate of deaths that are amenable to health care in a given country. And look, here's what they found:



It turns out that the US has higher amenable mortality rates than all but a handful of european countries, all of whom spend far less money on health care than we do in the United States.

P.S.: for Florian's benefit, I suppose I should point out just how awesome France is when it comes to health care. They appear to really have this stuff figured out over there. The Canadians on the board can find something to be proud of in this data as well.

Last edited by Don Zeko; 12-04-2011 at 08:02 PM..
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  #30  
Old 12-04-2011, 06:00 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
It's true that there are many different variables in play, such that looking simply at mortality rates is a poor way of measuring the effectiveness of the provision of health care in a given country. That's why it's nice that smart people out there have worked very hard to quantify the rate of deaths that are amenable to health care in a given country. And look, here's what they found:
Before I can respond, I would have to know how they distinguish deaths due to lack of health care. Obesity is an example which muddies the water as I mentioned earlier. Diets are regional and cultural, not due to a lack of health care access.
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  #31  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Before I can respond, I would have to know how they distinguish deaths due to lack of health care. Obesity is an example which muddies the water as I mentioned earlier. Diets are regional and cultural, not due to a lack of health care access.
Then read the PDF. This is complicated stuff, and I'm sure there's something in there to quibble with, but they've shown their work. Don't just speculate about what you feel might be wrong with their data when they've done the work and you haven't.
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  #32  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:52 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Then read the PDF. This is complicated stuff, and I'm sure there's something in there to quibble with, but they've shown their work. Don't just speculate about what you feel might be wrong with their data when they've done the work and you haven't.
When I follow your first link, this is what I get:

Authentication Error

Sorry, your authentication has timed out. Please try requesting the document again here.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2011, 07:53 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

crap, me too. I'll try and find a working link....

EDIT: ok, I think the link is fixed.

Last edited by Don Zeko; 12-04-2011 at 08:02 PM..
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:35 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Then read the PDF. This is complicated stuff, and I'm sure there's something in there to quibble with, but they've shown their work. Don't just speculate about what you feel might be wrong with their data when they've done the work and you haven't.
Have you reviewed this data? It seems that the primary way to "narrow the gap" is through lifestyle changes. Specifically obesity, alcohol consumption, tobacco usage, and the types of foods eaten. These seem to me to be cultural matters, not a systematic problem in a health care system.
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2011, 06:13 AM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Have you reviewed this data? It seems that the primary way to "narrow the gap" is through lifestyle changes. Specifically obesity, alcohol consumption, tobacco usage, and the types of foods eaten. These seem to me to be cultural matters, not a systematic problem in a health care system.
Cultural matters also aren't genetic matters.
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2011, 01:31 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
There are many things I like about the US but several things I miss about Canada.

Poutine, the health care system, and the much more rational immigration system are three advantages Canada has.

I've had to work pretty hard for 15 years and be quite successful in my career to finally have access to health care that rivals what I was getting in Canada as a poor white trash kid in a family of 4 with an income under 15K a year.

I have no doubt that there are upper middle and above Canadians who come to the US for specific procedures. This doesn't say anything about what health care is like for the vast majority of Canadians vs. the
vast majority of Americans.
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  #37  
Old 12-04-2011, 02:48 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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I've had to work pretty hard for 15 years and be quite successful in my career to finally have access to health care that rivals what I was getting in Canada as a poor white trash kid in a family of 4 with an income under 15K a year.
Indeed. And you raise a good point: Health care in the US can be excellent if you have the money to pay for it. The basic American model is you can have what you can pay for. If you're a criminal defendant, you can obtain justice as long as you can afford a lawyer. If you're sick, you can be healed as long as you can afford a doctor.

Republicans would like to extend this model to education, by replacing socialized public education with a private system that would only be available to those who could afford it. Then school would be like health care: great for everyone except the 40 or 50 million who can't afford it.

And as we have discussed before, they want to do the same with the postal service, replacing the public model that serves all of the people with a private system that serves those who can afford it, and from whom private mail carriers can extract profit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
I have no doubt that there are upper middle and above Canadians who come to the US for specific procedures. This doesn't say anything about what health care is like for the vast majority of Canadians vs. the vast majority of Americans.
One common concern I hear from Canadian when we talk about our health care systems is that many good Canadian doctors and researchers are drawn to the US because they can make so much more money here than up north. And still the Canadian system outperforms the US system.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
sapeye sapeye is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
We have at least three Canadians in the forum: basman, miceelf, and Diane1976. I wonder what they think.
At least four... I have dual citizenship and have lived extensively in both countries. In my view, the snowbird argument is bullshit and almost all the critiques of the Canadian healthcare system are bullshit, too. Either that or sponsored lies. Sure the Canadian system has some problems, especially when compared to some of the European systems, but it's a shining light when compared to the US system.

To pretend that the US system is superlative is to deny reality.
It can be useful to set aside ferociously held opinions and consider the facts.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:13 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Originally Posted by sapeye View Post
At least four... I have dual citizenship and have lived extensively in both countries. In my view, the snowbird argument is bullshit and almost all the critiques of the Canadian healthcare system are bullshit, too. Either that or sponsored lies. Sure the Canadian system has some problems, especially when compared to some of the European systems, but it's a shining light when compared to the US system.

To pretend that the US system is superlative is to deny reality.
It can be useful to set aside ferociously held opinions and consider the facts.
Ah! Thanks for weighing in. And sorry for having overlooked your Canadianness! :-)
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:04 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Republicans Candidates Should Ask ... What Would A Canadian Do?

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Canada seems to be exiting their girly-man position on Kyoto as well (even our dem senators had more testosterone), avoiding almost $7 bil in shakedown payments.
It's amazing how the thing has collapsed. I am thinking it is all due to the over-reach of people like Al Gore and Jim Hansen calling climate change settled science. People just don't cotton to stuff like that, for good reason.

Climategate 2.0:

Quote:
but the lesson of the Climategate saga is that scientists who become advocates, or allow themselves to become adjuncts to an advocacy campaign, damage science and policy-making alike. They end up being neither effective nor honest. One of the poignant revelations of the new emails is that some of the scientists seem to grasp this. Tommy Wils, a British climate researcher at the University of Swansea, wrote in a 2007 note to a large list of recipients: “Politicians like Al Gore are abusing the fear of global warming to get into power (while having a huge carbon footprint himself).”
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