Go Back   Bloggingheads Community > General comments on Bloggingheads.tv
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Notices

General comments on Bloggingheads.tv Post comments about our website here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 01-11-2012, 01:27 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-11-2012, 06:42 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
golly, i wish i knew what this meant.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-11-2012, 07:18 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default It means:

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
golly, i wish i knew what this meant.
shhhhh... I have no idea either, but Badhat has indicated she will no longer read my posts, 'cause I'm a "crazy man" who never makes "sense". Too bad we can't see through the internets and get a sense of the decision processes that are about to take place. Does anyone remember "Scanners"?

But seriously folks, I'm just really wondering when the "guest count" is going to stop hovering around 140 to 150. Is there really that many lurkers out there or were those numbers padded all along? Surely this is going to drop off at some point.
Especially after they, if they are real, get a load of this particular subthread.
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell

Last edited by handle; 01-11-2012 at 07:41 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-11-2012, 07:41 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,750
Default Re: It means:

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
shhhhh... I have no idea either, but Badhat has indicated she will no longer read my posts, 'cause I'm a "crazy man" who never makes "sense". Too bad we can't see through the internets and get a sense of the decision process that is about to take place. Does anyone remember "Scanners"?

But seriously folks, I'm just really wondering when the "guest count" is going to stop hovering around 140 to 150. Is there really that many lurkers out there or were those numbers padded all along? Surely this is going to drop off at some point.
Especially after they, if they are real, get a load of this particular subthread.
That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.
__________________
-A. E. M. Jeff (Eponym)
Magnets - We know how they work!
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-11-2012, 07:43 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Re: It means:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.
Ah ha. So I guess they won't be joining the discussion? AI anyone?
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell

Last edited by handle; 01-11-2012 at 07:45 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-11-2012, 07:43 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: It means:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.
You mean...we're not fascinating?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-11-2012, 07:47 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Trolling all bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
ah ha. So i guess they won't be joining the discussion? Ai anyone?
011001100111010101100011011010110010000001100001
011011000110110000100000011110010110111101110101
001000000110001001101111011101000111001100100001
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell

Last edited by handle; 01-11-2012 at 07:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:16 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Re: Trolling all bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
011001100111010101100011011010110010000001100001
011011000110110000100000011110010110111101110101
001000000110001001101111011101000111001100100001
Guess it's a few years off yet, sure google is on it, though.
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell

Last edited by handle; 01-12-2012 at 08:23 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:00 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: France, Earth
Posts: 1,165
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that their discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.
__________________
ledocs

Last edited by ledocs; 01-12-2012 at 11:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:14 PM
graz graz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,162
Default Thumbs up to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.
I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Bob is not "really" listening. He has moved on. Whether we follow suit matters little in the new scheme attached to Disqus. The commenting "community", while Bob continues to flatter it as if it is integral, has been relegated to an auxiliary role at best. It is neither a driver nor a critical component of the sites relative success. I don't think it ever was critical to funding or measurable traffic. Well, except for the most interested participants and attendant observers. And it clearly will be less necessary to monitor or maintain under the Disqus regime. Our time has passed. Except of course for the fact that we're still posting in vBulletin. The clock is ticking.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.
Perhaps Bob isn't too interested in having a commenting community. We are interested, but that doesn't mean that anyone else is.

Bob may want to have comments showing under the videos to show something about what kind of people are interested in those discussions. But beyond that, I don't think that the community part of the deal has much profitability for Bob.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:37 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Perhaps Bob isn't too interested in having a commenting community. We are interested, but that doesn't mean that anyone else is.

Bob may want to have comments showing under the videos to show something about what kind of people are interested in those discussions. But beyond that, I don't think that the community part of the deal has much profitability for Bob.
He said he wanted intelligent, cerebral commentary. Which is why I tended to stay away from the main diavlog section. Then I saw the writing on the wall 6 months ago and bailed. When the inevitable took place, I unbanned myself.
I think he wants the commentary to reflect, and more importantly, display a highbrow and ideologically diverse viewership, and this format encourages us riffraff to riff here. Present company not included, of course.
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell

Last edited by handle; 01-13-2012 at 04:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:37 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.
I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.
I think it's elegant within the restraints of the system. As I told Stephanie, I don't have to click between forums, scrolling up and down. All replies come to my mailbox. They can then be deleted as they are read. If any need a reply, I don't delete till answered, which helps me keep track of making sure I answer posts addressed to me.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:44 PM
look look is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: Thumbs up to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Bob is not "really" listening. He has moved on. Whether we follow suit matters little in the new scheme attached to Disqus. The commenting "community", while Bob continues to flatter it as if it is integral, has been relegated to an auxiliary role at best. It is neither a driver nor a critical component of the sites relative success. I don't think it ever was critical to funding or measurable traffic. Well, except for the most interested participants and attendant observers. And it clearly will be less necessary to monitor or maintain under the Disqus regime. Our time has passed. Except of course for the fact that we're still posting in vBulletin. The clock is ticking.
I get what you mean that Bob has moved on. But what I don't think you get is that he does care about us. I think he is appreciative of our appreciation, hence all the Commenter Klatches with Aryeh and others, even post-changeover. He's a hella busy guy, and it should count as something that he takes the time.

When I think about it, it's like the new commenters at Disqus are puppies who don't have preconceptions about 'how things should be.' We're like loyal old dogs, and Bob cares, but he can't do much more than leave this site open.

Honestly, I think Bob should probably just let us post as much as we want about current diavlogs (without linking from there to here), and little by little, we'll probably be drawn into Disqus.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:33 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,694
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.
Agree. It's disempowering for commenters. There's no way to put lipstick on that pig.

Quote:
Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.
I don't see how it's a business error. It's a decision to the detriment of the existing commenting community, but that doesn't make it bad business. "Creative destruction," as Mitt Romney would put it.

Bheads was failing as a business. It was unsustainable, and now Bob and the new non-profit are trying something new.

I don't really get how a non-profit disentangles itself from Bob's job at the Atlantic, but that's really off-topic.

If I were marketing Blogginheads 2.0, I'd say something clever about synergies, but I'm not, so I won't.
__________________
Seek Peace and Pursue it
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Busca la paz y síguela
--Psalm 34:15
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 01-13-2012, 07:10 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,118
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.
But remember in the dialectic of master and slave, there is a victor: le bourgeois, the synthesis of master and slave.

So perhaps an intermediate term is possible. We can still use this forum, as long as it exists, to talk about topics tangentially related to the diavlogs, as well as all the other unrelated topics that were of no interest in any case to anyone but the regular commenters.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:39 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
So perhaps an intermediate term is possible. We can still use this forum, as long as it exists, to talk about topics tangentially related to the diavlogs, as well as all the other unrelated topics that were of no interest in any case to anyone but the regular commenters.
For the time-being, at least. It's not a long-term solution and I think Wonderment is right that the forum was an extra thing and not part of the current financial model, so we can't expect things to change to become more like what we liked/are looking for, but no reason to stop using the forum while it still exists.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:37 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: France, Earth
Posts: 1,165
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

It's not a business error, ipso facto. But Bob's presumption is that intelligent comments directly below the video window will draw additional viewers. So I just question whether this is true. If there were some well-known commenter who was not using a pseudonym and who rushed to comment as soon as a diavlog was posted, OK, I can see that that is an attraction. I don't see how the comments of unknown posters, comments which may or may not be intelligent, are going to draw additional viewers. On the other hand, the existence of a dedicated commenting community assuredly leads to some marginal "buzz." I know that I have mentioned bhtv to anyone I thought might conceivably be interested. And I did link to bhtv on occasion in my limited travels on the Web.

I'm not expecting bhtv to spend money on a user forum that does not pay for itself. I do question the business logic of the "below the video window" fixation. The vbulletin forum just looks considerably more serious and obviously allows for more serious commentary than does Disqus. I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.
__________________
ledocs
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:56 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.
Something about a legend in his own mind occurs to me.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:33 PM
graz graz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,162
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Something about a legend in his own mind occurs to me.
One thing is clear, should you be miraculously blessed with newfound reading comprehension skills, you'd find that ledocs may hold himself in high regard -- but deservedly so. He's looking for a solution to a real problem. Conversely, you and your identical cousin seem quite content with dumbed down Disqus. Which does stand to reason.
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:11 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
One thing is clear, should you be miraculously blessed with newfound reading comprehension skills, you'd find that ledocs may hold himself in high regard -- but deservedly so.
Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:14 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

You guys should have a lot of fun when ledocs gets his new forum (which is a solution to a real problem) set up. He can write essays ( you know the ones he just can't bring himself to post in Disqus because of their incredible depth and breadth) and you guys can comment on them.

A good time will be had by all.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,694
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
The vbulletin forum just looks considerably more serious and obviously allows for more serious commentary than does Disqus. I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.
Yes, VBulletin definitely provides for greater length, breadth and depth of commenting.
__________________
Seek Peace and Pursue it
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Busca la paz y síguela
--Psalm 34:15
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:44 PM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,606
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Easy method to keep track of Disqus threads:

If you scroll down to 'edit profile' you can select for all posts, in threads that you've made at least one post in, to be sent to your email. I just leave a windows tab open with my my email logged in, and the count changes as the emails build up. Then you can link directly from any emailed post back to the forum to reply.

Last edited by JonIrenicus; 01-14-2012 at 11:49 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:53 PM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
You guys should have a lot of fun when ledocs gets his new forum (which is a solution to a real problem) set up. He can write essays ( you know the ones he just can't bring himself to post in Disqus because of their incredible depth and breadth) and you guys can comment on them.

A good time will be had by all.
Why are you so dismissive of the people who will not transition to disqus?

If vBulletin was free, the way say Wordpress blogs are, I could see some of us setting up a blog about bhtv where we could continue in our old ways.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 01-15-2012, 09:02 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
It's not a business error, ipso facto. But Bob's presumption is that intelligent comments directly below the video window will draw additional viewers. So I just question whether this is true. If there were some well-known commenter who was not using a pseudonym and who rushed to comment as soon as a diavlog was posted, OK, I can see that that is an attraction. I don't see how the comments of unknown posters, comments which may or may not be intelligent, are going to draw additional viewers. On the other hand, the existence of a dedicated commenting community assuredly leads to some marginal "buzz." I know that I have mentioned bhtv to anyone I thought might conceivably be interested. And I did link to bhtv on occasion in my limited travels on the Web.
I agree with all this, I'm just skeptical that anyone within TPTB is even reading it, let alone caring. They are set in their ideas of what matters. Sure, I see the comments section becoming more like that that follows online newpaper and magazine articles (this is not a positive), but it's not like that's going to hurt their business model and they never really figured out a way to make the forum help, even if Bob liked the idea of it in theory.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 01-15-2012, 09:29 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit View Post
Why are you so dismissive of the people who will not transition to disqus?

If vBulletin was free, the way say Wordpress blogs are, I could see some of us setting up a blog about bhtv where we could continue in our old ways.
I'm not. I'm dismissive of people who are pompous asses.

However, as you can see by the current traffic, the idea of a blog about bhtv being anything like bhtv was is grasping at straws.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 01-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
I agree with all this, I'm just skeptical that anyone within TPTB is even reading it, let alone caring. They are set in their ideas of what matters. Sure, I see the comments section becoming more like that that follows online newpaper and magazine articles (this is not a positive), but it's not like that's going to hurt their business model and they never really figured out a way to make the forum help, even if Bob liked the idea of it in theory.
Well, good luck to Bob and his enterprise.

I find myself hesitating to write anything over there. It's plainly tiring to have so many limitations and know in advance that an interesting conversation is unlikely to follow. So it takes three times as much work to put a post together, especially if you want to include links. And the anticipation of the experience being rewarding is pretty much minimal or gone. For every ten posts that come up to my mind writing, I may write one.

But, as you said, as long as that first page under the video is filled with something, it may be sufficient for whatever purposes Bob has.

And where are the hundreds of new commenters writing their comments? I haven't seen but a couple of new names, which may very well be known comemnters from here with a different handle.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 01-15-2012, 04:53 PM
handle handle is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,986
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

You mean he has low self esteem, and is deploying self help positive affirmation techniques to reverse this affliction?

You have seen the SNL bits, right? Or are you just running with Bill O'reilly's mean spirited caricature of the senator from Minnesota?
__________________
"God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." J. Campbell
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 01-15-2012, 08:27 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,694
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Well, good luck to Bob and his enterprise.
Enterprises. The Atlantic gig and the foundation founding. The key to understanding what's going on here is to study the interaction between the two. "Synergies" between the for-profit world of corporate journalism and the non-profit world of foundations and think tanks.

Quote:
I find myself hesitating to write anything over there. It's plainly tiring to have so many limitations and know in advance that an interesting conversation is unlikely to follow. So it takes three times as much work to put a post together, especially if you want to include links. And the anticipation of the experience being rewarding is pretty much minimal or gone. For every ten posts that come up to my mind writing, I may write one.
Yes, that is my experience as well.

Quote:
And where are the hundreds of new commenters writing their comments? I haven't seen but a couple of new names, which may very well be known comemnters from here with a different handle.
It's not about comments; it's about hits. As long as the front page looks "articulate and bright and clean," it's all good.
__________________
Seek Peace and Pursue it
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Busca la paz y síguela
--Psalm 34:15
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 01-15-2012, 10:00 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: US Northeast
Posts: 6,784
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.

Disq sucks. Disqusting. Discuss disqus. Me disqusta.

Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 01-16-2012, 12:11 AM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.

Disq sucks. Disqusting. Discuss disqus. Me disqusta.

If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 01-16-2012, 12:38 AM
graz graz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,162
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit View Post
If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.
I doubt there was any malice aforethought. But the impression and result are rather suspect, You might consider asking for a refund. It was an amateurish display of misinfo and partial truths. Here's a little cover, or maybe damage control. From the recent bhtv video of the Bob and Jim show:

http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/8679#comment-407535643

Quote:
policy_wank 5 days ago
How much money did you raise from viewers in the week that followed the plea to give?


graziz 5 days ago in reply to policy_wank
It wasn't really a plea. It was more of a halfhearted stalling mechanism for what was already in the works. Apparently, the answer to your question is not public information. There is no expectation of accountability. Are you a stockholder? Is there a public shareholders board now that the foundation is non profit? Perhaps some commenters will be on the board? Good question though. The finances have always been alluded to but not made explicit. That is Bob's prerogative after all. He also can spin it any way he likes.

Jim Morrison (JimM47) 5 days ago in reply to graziz
I think it is supposed to public info, since Bob stated a number on the ill-fated diavlog that my computer ate. It was roughly a thousand dollars, if I recall correctly. About a quarter of what would be needed on a continuing basis.
Robert Wright liked this

Robert Wright 5 days ago in reply to Jim Morrison (JimM47)
Yes, it was around $1,000, but I'm afraid that's much less than a quarter of what would be needed on an ongoing basis (unless it came in once a week or so). Thanks to everyone who contributed. The money came at a crucial time.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:01 AM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
I doubt there was any malice aforethought. But the impression and result are rather suspect, You might consider asking for a refund. It was an amateurish display of misinfo and partial truths. Here's a little cover, or maybe damage control. From the recent bhtv video of the Bob and Jim show:

http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/8679#comment-407535643
It just sort of adds to the disappointment.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:18 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
Posts: 5,413
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit View Post
It just sort of adds to the disappointment.
If I were you I'd certainly ask for a refund. The plea was poorly made and there seemed to be some sort of promises which weren't kept.
__________________
"By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it." Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:56 AM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: France, Earth
Posts: 1,165
Unhappy Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

badhat said:

Quote:
I'm not. I'm dismissive of people who are pompous asses.
http://brainwaveweb.com/forum/showpo...70&postcount=1

I don't think so highly of myself, but I do hold badhat in very low esteem.
__________________
ledocs
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:04 AM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heartland Conservative
Posts: 4,933
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Yes, VBulletin definitely provides for greater length, breadth and depth of commenting.
And weight!

;-)
__________________
"All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind." -- Adam Smith
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:22 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.
Agreed, but like Wonderment said, they don't care about that. They care that there are immediate comments and it looks intelligent (or at least like people are listening and not just trolling, intelligent is not really necessary but flattery).

The format is such that ongoing conversations about past diavlogs won't happen. The most recent one will get some feedback until the next one comes (or soon thereafter). With fewer diavlogs and the desire that all get comments, I strongly believe this is a benefit in the eyes of those who run the site. It also makes meaningful discussion unlikely to occur.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit View Post
If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.
Oh, I thought there was full disclosure both that the comments/forum were switching to disqus and that the coming bhTV might not be what we've liked so much. In fact, Bob made it sound like there might be even fewer diavlogs and I wsan't sure there'd still be this forum at all. It was hardly a real plea for donations, let alone one filled with promises. I donated based on past enjoyment/loyalties and without any expectations going forward. Hope, sure, but nothing more. I really don't think claiming that Bob was misleading is fair. He was quite negative, really.

As far as this forum and our satisfaction going forward, I think it's worth talking about what -- given the comments on the diavlog being what many of us consider unsatisfactory -- could make it better.

I think I'd still enjoy this forum if we could use it for the kinds of real discussions that were sparked by the diavlogs but not directly responding to them, plus the misc topics that have always been here. It might be nice if diavlogs could be talked about here after a week or two, also, as the current set up means there's no point in commenting after several days, no one will read or respond.

(This is my sense of how all comments on blog posts and news articles, etc., work, and that's what our comments on the site now are.)

In addition to this, we'd need some way to let people on the main site know about this one.

I know I may be being too optimistic here, but other ideas of what might allow this part of the forum to remain somewhat vital?
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 01-16-2012, 11:23 AM
Unit Unit is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,713
Default Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Oh, I thought there was full disclosure both that the comments/forum were switching to disqus and that the coming bhTV might not be what we've liked so much. In fact, Bob made it sound like there might be even fewer diavlogs and I wsan't sure there'd still be this forum at all. It was hardly a real plea for donations, let alone one filled with promises. I donated based on past enjoyment/loyalties and without any expectations going forward. Hope, sure, but nothing more. I really don't think claiming that Bob was misleading is fair. He was quite negative, really.

As far as this forum and our satisfaction going forward, I think it's worth talking about what -- given the comments on the diavlog being what many of us consider unsatisfactory -- could make it better.

I think I'd still enjoy this forum if we could use it for the kinds of real discussions that were sparked by the diavlogs but not directly responding to them, plus the misc topics that have always been here. It might be nice if diavlogs could be talked about here after a week or two, also, as the current set up means there's no point in commenting after several days, no one will read or respond.

(This is my sense of how all comments on blog posts and news articles, etc., work, and that's what our comments on the site now are.)

In addition to this, we'd need some way to let people on the main site know about this one.

I know I may be being too optimistic here, but other ideas of what might allow this part of the forum to remain somewhat vital?
I had gotten the impression that there would be less diavlogs and yes a new comment section and a redesign, but I didn't expect the forum to be shut down. I'm ok with Disqus for the main page and the comments below the videos. I have nothing against that, but why should it affect the forum? That was not made clear. In fact, what we got is pretty much just as many diavlogs (if not more).
Reply With Quote
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.