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  #81  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:14 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

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Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
We'd be remiss to let a Sci Sat go by without mentioning natural selection. In Darwinian "philosophy" (such as it is), all values are instrumental. Bach composed his Passions to have more sex. Einstein's E=MC^2? Great pickup line at the local Zurich club. Love your kids? Just kin selection: more sex for the tribe. Joyce's Ulysses? An obvious ploy to get Joyce's female companion to fall asleep while reading it and then... well, let's keep this blog family-friendly.
That's cute. I have read that Joyce's wife didn't think much of his writing.
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  #82  
Old 04-03-2011, 10:18 PM
sapeye sapeye is offline
 
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Default The Comparative Question

I've only listened to part so far, but this seems like a key question that calls into question Brian's whole approach.

I must admit, though, that the more items Robin reads from his list, the more I'm thinking Brian might be onto something...
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  #83  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:15 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

Just wanted to make an observation. It's interesting that there is a difference in classification between intrinsic value and instrumental value. But I think it's been shown that those classifications are vague at best. It would be good to know for an exam but I don't see the practical use, yet.

always the pragmatist.
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  #84  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:00 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Well, knowledge itself can be broken down. For instance, I mentioned earlier that I am reading Ulysses. There is absolutely no other reason I could be reading this book besides a desire for knowledge because it is a hell of a slog.
This is interesting, or at least reflects a way of thinking that is different than mine (so interesting to me). I never think of reading literature as about a desire for knowledge. I mean, it's about a desire to have experienced that particular book, I suppose, to have learned from reading it, but I wouldn't describe that as about "a desire for knowledge." Perhaps we are just using different language for different things.

Anyway, the reason to read Ulysses is because it's funny and a great reading experience and it makes subsequent attendance at Bloomsday events even more fun.
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  #85  
Old 04-05-2011, 05:16 AM
R. Richards R. Richards is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

Thanks for this very interesting discussion. Of possible interest is Tim Hwang's new discussion of a recent, apparently successful Turing test on Twitter, involving bots: http://tinyurl.com/3btsuwt

"Geeks competed this past winter in Socialbots 2011 to create robots capable of forming relationships on Twitter in a competition organized by Tim Hwang and the Web Ecology Project. The winning bot was the one who could gain the most followers and have the most 140 character conversations with other human beings without intervention.

"And the bots actually WORKED."
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  #86  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:38 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Richards View Post
Thanks for this very interesting discussion. Of possible interest is Tim Hwang's new discussion of a recent, apparently successful Turing test on Twitter, involving bots: http://tinyurl.com/3btsuwt

"Geeks competed this past winter in Socialbots 2011 to create robots capable of forming relationships on Twitter in a competition organized by Tim Hwang and the Web Ecology Project. The winning bot was the one who could gain the most followers and have the most 140 character conversations with other human beings without intervention.

"And the bots actually WORKED."
I would be willing to have a conversation or two with those robots. Even a cup of tea.
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  #87  
Old 04-10-2011, 03:17 PM
hamandcheese hamandcheese is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

My dinner with an artificially intelligent Andre.
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  #88  
Old 04-10-2011, 03:30 PM
hamandcheese hamandcheese is offline
 
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Default Re: Science Saturday: Of All the Souls I Have Encountered (Robin Hanson & Brian Christian)

A quarter of the dialog is Hanson reiterating the fact/value distinction and naturalistic fallacy, with it being completely missed by Christian. There's nothing intrinsically bad about computers or mechanics that lets you pass judgment on the preferences of other people. You're just being an aesthetic snob.
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