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  #41  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:25 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
What exactly is it that you don't like about them?
I view them as acts of intimidation, usually on behalf of a special interest or another minority faction. We have ample means of political participation that don't involve actually trying to bring the operation of the state to a standstill, which is what this is essentially an attempt to do. I also think they breed instability: if going out into the streets is seen as the way to get things done, then more people will do it. Business will be hurt, and government won't be able to get things done. Rhetoric at protests also sometimes gets out of hand--check, for example, the Hitler signs at the Wisconsin protests.
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  #42  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:27 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Shorter Wisconsin Republicans: Hey, those are some nice collective bargaining rights you've got there. It'd be a shame if anything were to happen to them. Say, have you considered giving money to Republican political organizations?
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  #43  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:04 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
I view them as acts of intimidation, usually on behalf of a special interest or another minority faction. We have ample means of political participation that don't involve actually trying to bring the operation of the state to a standstill, which is what this is essentially an attempt to do. I also think they breed instability: if going out into the streets is seen as the way to get things done, then more people will do it. Business will be hurt, and government won't be able to get things done. Rhetoric at protests also sometimes gets out of hand--check, for example, the Hitler signs at the Wisconsin protests.
This'd be a little more credible (in the sense that on a scale of 1000, 1 is better than 0) if you had ever made a comment about the countless Obama=Hitler signs at the teabagger rallies and Beck lardfests and scooter rallies that we've seen since about five minutes after Obama was inaugurated.

And by a comment, I mean something other than an admission that has to be dragged out of you, with pliers, after you've spent half a dozen posts sputtering and spinning.

On another note, I'm fascinated that you have no concern for the threats thousands of average people are facing, and instead worry only about "business" and "government" (now that it's your side running the government, we'll also note) being unruffled. On this matter, Substance McGravitas would like to have a word with you.

It's a pity the Pantload ruined that word, because the old meaning fits you to a tee.
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  #44  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:33 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
This'd be a little more credible (in the sense that on a scale of 1000, 1 is better than 0) if you had ever made a comment about the countless Obama=Hitler signs at the teabagger rallies and Beck lardfests and scooter rallies that we've seen since about five minutes after Obama was inaugurated.
I likely have commented on them (you have a way of inventing things that you think I've said and forgetting things that I actually have said); Obama=Hitler signs are not countless, and are stupid.

Quote:
On another note, I'm fascinated that you have no concern for the threats thousands of average people are facing, and instead worry only about "business" and "government" (now that it's your side running the government, we'll also note) being unruffled. On this matter, Substance McGravitas would like to have a word with you.
"average" people. I guess you mean "working" people, eh? It's time to have, as Obama has said, an adult conversation about state and federal budgets and deficits. Cuts need to be made. And that means that the public sector unions aren't going to be running the show anymore.

I'm all for California seceding from the union and attempting to make a go of it. Then, in a few years, when it's an economic failed state with social unrest rivaling the Greek riots, CA can come begging for a bailout.
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  #45  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:52 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
And it includes exempted voters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXHqjOCxPxM
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  #46  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:57 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post

I'm all for California seceding from the union and attempting to make a go of it. Then, in a few years, when it's an economic failed state with social unrest rivaling the Greek riots, CA can come begging for a bailout.
How patriotic of you. China beckons, no? Maybe your buddy can teach you the finer points of the language: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...speaks-chinese

Last edited by graz; 02-18-2011 at 07:02 PM..
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
I likely have commented on them ...
Emph. added.

But no so likely that you can find any examples, I guess.

Quote:
... Obama=Hitler signs are not countless ...
Oh, really? How many of them are there, then?

And let's not indulge your tween-age literalism; by "Obama=Hitler signs" I also mean, for example, pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache, signs with swastikas, etc. This will give you some sense.

Quote:
... and are stupid.
Glad to hear you admit it, finally. However, that you had to be pinned into the corner of your own hypocrisy before you'd say it diminishes my belief in your sincerity.

Quote:
"average" people. I guess you mean "working" people, eh?
I understand that you think public school teachers don't work, and that the only people who you think are worthwhile are Republican lobbyists, trust fund kiddies, and church elders living large on tithes, but yes, I'd say the two terms are equivalent in this context.

Quote:
It's time to have, as Obama has said, ...
Delighted to hear you referring to Obama as an authority. Of course, I think it's about as sincere as your just-this-moment disparaging of teabagger signage.

Quote:
... an adult conversation about state and federal budgets and deficits.
I'll be ready to have that conversation when you Republicans bring something to the table besides tax cuts ber alles, shitting on the working class and the poor, and hysteria at the Very Idea of trimming the Pentagon's budget. (And while you're at it, you might call upon your House Majority Leader to practice what he preaches.)

I'll also remind you that it was your other hero who manufactured the supposed crisis in Wisconsin.

The long and short of it is this: you Republican operatives never said boo when Reagan turned the US from the world's largest creditor nation into the world's largest debtor nation. You never said boo when George W. Bush brushed aside his Democratic predecessor's work to bring the budget back into balance and racked up his own record deficits. It's only now, at the stupidest time possible, that you're getting all pious about fiscal responsibility. And further, your approach is a barely-disguised attempt to fuck over any group that votes Democratic, while further feathering the nests of your cronies.

Quote:
I'm all for California seceding from the union ...
Tell it to your friend DenvilleSteve.
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  #48  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:28 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I understand that you think public school teachers don't work, and that the only people who you think are worthwhile are Republican lobbyists, trust fund kiddies, and church elders living large on tithes, but yes, I'd say the two terms are equivalent in this context.
No, what I mean is that the idiotic segregation of (very well-paid) teachers etc. into the "working people" category, against accountants, engineers etc. who, by the way, work 12 months a year, is ridiculous and condescending. Some teachers are very hard working. Some simply are not. Thanks to unions, schools can't pay good teachers more than bad teachers, and can't fire bad teachers. But you have no problem with that.



Quote:
I'll be ready to have that conversation when you Republicans
"you Republicans" heh.

But hey since you're interested here's my set of proposals to get the budget in line:
1) 10% cut across the board of all government programs.
2) Massive entitlement reform leading to the privatizing of social security and medicare and pensions that teachers actually pay for themselves.
3) Scaling back the DEA and decriminalizing marijuana and a few other narcotics.
4) Shifting from locking up non-violent criminals to punishing them through more severe financial penalties (that way they pay us instead of us paying for them)
5) Eliminating the National Endowment of the Arts, the FCC, and all funding for NPR.
6) Cutting the corporate tax rate in half to spur new competition and wealth creation.
7) Eliminating earmarks, permanently.
8) Finding a way to stop pork kings like John Kerry from demanding the military buy wasteful products it doesn't want from campaign contributors like GE.
9) Following Rand Paul's set of recommendations at the federal level.
10) Shifting all states to a unicameral legislature. There is utterly no need for a bicameral system; it only wastes money.
11) Eliminate unions for public sector workers. Start merit pay. Have a longer school day and a 12 month school year.

That'll go a long way toward making America sustainable, prosperous, and competitive.

Quote:
I'll also remind you that it was your hero who manufactured the supposed crisis in Wisconsin.
BJ in lefty talking points mode.
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  #49  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:49 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
But hey since you're interested ...
I'm not.
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  #50  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:04 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Another good report from Brian Beutler at TPM:

Quote:
Dems Closed Much Larger Budget Shortfall In Wisconsin Without Destroying Worker Rights

We know that Wisconsin's Republican Gov. Scott Walker is framing his bid to roll back public sector worker rights as a necessary measure of fiscal austerity. And we know that's basically bogus. But how bogus? And how accurate are the dire warnings of fiscal crisis? And how standard are the tools Walker's using to address it?

The answers in order: very, overblown, and unconventional.

"Unconventional or nuclear, depending on your point of view," said Pat Kreitlow, a former Democratic senator in Wisconsin, who helped pass the state's current budget.

There's been a lot of confusion about what Walker's doing -- but he's definitely not passing a budget. He's pushing optional legislation in a vehicle that's meant to tweak the budget in the event of a budget emergency. To the extent that there is an emergency, Walker essentially created it, giving him the chance to pass a bill that would permanently deny public workers collective bargaining rights, while he's still riding the wave of his own post-election popularity.

Here's how it came down.

In Wisconsin, budget season is two years long. The current budget window was opened on July 1, 2009, and will close on June 30 of this year. If for unexpected reason, the state finds itself faced with a severe deficit within a biennial window, the legislature must pass what's known a "budget repair bill" -- to close the gap with spending cuts or other emergency measures.

The state has not crossed that threshold.

The previous governor, Democrat Jim Doyle, passed a budget that left the state poised for a surplus this year. When Walker took office in January he chipped away at that surplus with three conservative tax expenditure bills, but not severely enough to trigger a budget repair bill. The current, small shortfall was "manufactured by Governor Walker's own insistence on making the deficit worse with the bills he passed in January," Kreitlow said. But Walker cited that shortfall to introduce a "budget repair bill" anyhow -- a fully elective move that includes his plan to end collective bargaining rights for state employees.

"The trigger had not been reached prior to Governor Walker adding to the previous year's deficit by passing bills that didn't create a single job," Kreitlow said.

Walker will soon have to introduce an actual budget, which will outline spending and revenue policy for the two years between July 1, 2011 and June 30, 2013. And the state's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- the official scorekeeper -- does project that he'll face a $3 billion shortfall. But Democrats faced a shortfall twice as large ahead of the previous budget cycle and managed to close the gap.

"The $3 billion is a projection based on requests and forecasts, but it's the governor who has to do the hard work of putting together a plan," Kreitow explained. "it is just practically half of the projected deficit that we closed in the last budget bill, which we did by making serious cuts and some very deliberate choices. That's what we expect leaders to do." In 2009, Wisconsin Dems did get just over a billion in help from the stimulus bill, but they made up the rest by giving state agencies less money than they asked for, and through furloughs and other real austerity measures.

"We know it could be closed again by making tough choices," Kreitow said. "But not included in those tough choices would be stripping away labor rights that have allowed there to be labor peace in Wisconsin for over 50 years."
Regarding that line I bolded: Sounds like Scott Walker went to the Republican School of Fiscal Responsibimility started by George WALKER Bush, doesn't it?
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  #51  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:05 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
I'm not.
It's abundantly clear that coherent thinking is beyond your aptitude. That's why there's always talking points and bile, eh BJ?
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:10 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post

But hey since you're interested here's my set of proposals to get the budget in line:
We already know:
Lather, rinse , repeat.
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:29 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Just for the record, ways in which Governor Walker may or may not increase the deficit down the road are not directly germane to this discussion. I'll let Ezra explain it because he's smarter than me and you'll listen to him. It's the update at the bottom of the post: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...wisc.html#more

Good for Ezra for acknowledging this. As for Kevin Drum/Brian Beutler and the rest of the obligatory liberal backlash brigade, epistemic closure, etc.
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  #54  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:53 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
Just for the record, ways in which Governor Walker may or may not increase the deficit down the road are not directly germane to this discussion.
And what is the discussion? How when your mommy and daddy paid for your college they had enough left over for your trust fund, or that you might have to negotiate for benefits yourself someday? Likely the former.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
... I have nothing substantive to add ...
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  #55  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:59 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
And what is the discussion? How when your mommy and daddy paid for your college they had enough left over for your trust fund, or that you might have to negotiate for benefits yourself someday? Likely the former.
I don't know why it put my post as a response to BJ, I was responding a post Don made. Anyway, I don't really know what to say graz! You so easily switch between having a sense of humor to completely humorless personal aspersions that are completely wrong, and that you don't have any idea about either way. But thanks for substantively addressing my point by discussing my fictitious trust fund in a mean spirited way! Incredibly relevant to the topic at hand.
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  #56  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:26 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
I don't know why it put my post as a response to BJ, I was responding a post Don made. Anyway, I don't really know what to say graz! You so easily switch between having a sense of humor to completely humorless personal aspersions that are completely wrong, and that you don't have any idea about either way. But thanks for substantively addressing my point by discussing my fictitious trust fund in a mean spirited way! Incredibly relevant to the topic at hand.
Sorry, but it had a nice ring to it. Of course I don't know any of your personal details. I secretly suspect that you are a fine fellow -- shhh, don't tell anyone I said so. As for being a meanie ... I agree ... incorrigibly so.

What is there to address other than counter your cheap shot at liberal epistemia (coined)? Did I miss it? Is Ezra's update the last word on the matter?
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  #57  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
Just for the record, ways in which Governor Walker may or may not increase the deficit down the road are not directly germane to this discussion. I'll let Ezra explain it because he's smarter than me and you'll listen to him. It's the update at the bottom of the post: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...wisc.html#more

Good for Ezra for acknowledging this. As for Kevin Drum/Brian Beutler and the rest of the obligatory liberal backlash brigade, epistemic closure, etc.
Fair enough. I had not read that before, so I'll retract part of my post. Wisconsin's present budget problems aren't Walker's creation. But given that Wisconsin's future budget problems will be his creation, that he's exempted unions that are more favorably inclined towards Republicans, and that gutting collective bargaining rights going forward doesn't have any effect on Wisconsin's current shortfall, I'm still of the opinion that much of this bill is a partisan hatchet job against an interest group that Walker doesn't like.
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  #58  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:58 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
Just for the record, ways in which Governor Walker may or may not increase the deficit down the road are not directly germane to this discussion. I'll let Ezra explain it because he's smarter than me and you'll listen to him. It's the update at the bottom of the post: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...wisc.html#more

Good for Ezra for acknowledging this.
Y'know, if you're going to try to play the EVENTHELIBERALEZRAKLEIN card, you might wait until you have something better than a deuce. Not sure how this bit from "the bottom of the post" helps you defend your hero, Chris Walker Bush:

Quote:
Update: I've been persuaded that the surplus-to-deficit picture is more complicated that I initially understood. The budget report is working with two time periods simultaneously: 2010-2011, and then 2011-13. The $130 million deficit now projected for 2011 isn't the fault of the tax breaks passed during Walker's special session, though his special session created about $120 million in deficit spending between 2011 and 2013 -- and perhaps more than that, if his policies are extended. That is to say, the deficit spending he created in his special session is about equal to the deficit Wisconsin faces this year, but it's not technically correct to say that Walker created 2011's deficit. Rather, he added $120 million to the 2011-2013 deficits, and perhaps more in the years after that.
Emph. added.

The technicalities of how he created the deficit problem aside, the facts remain that (1) he created the deficit problem, (2) he is now trying to use to hype the budget problems, including the looming deficit he created, as an excuse to club certain unions and only certain unions, and (3) knowing he was going to face a tough budget, he still pushed through three tax cuts favoring conservatives.

Quote:
As for Kevin Drum/Brian Beutler and the rest of the obligatory liberal backlash brigade, epistemic closure, etc.
Yeah, sure. When you can't make an argument, resort to tribalism and throw around a buzzword you don't even understand. Typical junior operative.

Remember this moment the next time you're tempted to whine about not being taken seriously.
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  #59  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:09 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Y'know, if you're going to try to play the EVENTHELIBERALEZRAKLEIN card, you might wait until you have something better than a deuce. Not sure how this bit from "the bottom of the post" helps you defend your hero, Chris Walker Bush:



Emph. added.

The technicalities of how he created the deficit problem aside, the facts remain that (1) he created the deficit problem, (2) he is now trying to use to hype the budget problems, including the looming deficit he created, as an excuse to club certain unions and only certain unions, and (3) knowing he was going to face a tough budget, he still pushed through three tax cuts favoring conservatives.



Yeah, sure. When you can't make an argument, resort to tribalism and throw around a buzzword you don't even understand. Typical junior operative.

Remember this moment the next time you're tempted to whine about not being taken seriously.
epistemic closure is two words. I also like how he's my hero. You're a useful person, you can fill in all sorts of details in peoples lives that they don't even know about!

the juxtaposition of Don and Bj's posts here is telling. why don't you go back to endless back and forth threads with operative arguing about nothing? I don't think we've had enough of that yet.
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:21 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
You're a useful person, you can fill in all sorts of details in peoples lives that they don't even know about!
You're welcome.

And here's your next learning opportunity: Possessives take apostrophes, even when they're plural. Therefore: people's lives, not "peoples lives."

When you get your thumb out of your mouth, you might make a note of it.
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  #61  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:24 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
the juxtaposition of Don and Bj's posts here is telling.
The only thing telling about it is that you've managed to comprehend Don's post no better than you understood Ezra's update.

As far as I can tell, you come to this board looking only for things you can take umbrage at.

When you're not saying stupid shit you later try to claim was "only joking," I mean.
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  #62  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:28 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Never mind the rookies. Check out the veteran.

Try as they might, the operative and the junior operative still have a long way to go before they catch up to annalthouse.
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  #63  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:13 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
The only thing telling about it is that you've managed to comprehend Don's post no better than you understood Ezra's update.

As far as I can tell, you come to this board looking only for things you can take umbrage at.

When you're not saying stupid shit you later try to claim was "only joking," I mean.
I've always been curious: is the junior operative supposed to be an age joke? That'd be classless even for you. Now instead of scolding for grammar mistakes in a post where I clearly didn't care much about it (not capitalizing sentences, for example) maybe you can get back to the debates with operative we all enjoy so much.
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  #64  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:17 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
I've always been curious: is the junior operative supposed to be an age joke?
No.
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  #65  
Old 02-19-2011, 12:24 AM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
The only thing telling about it is that you've managed to comprehend Don's post no better than you understood Ezra's update.

As far as I can tell, you come to this board looking only for things you can take umbrage at.

When you're not saying stupid shit you later try to claim was "only joking," I mean.
BJ, your posts explore new levels of pathetic. I still think that you're actually a conservative performance artist trying to embody every negative quality often seen in lefty commentators.
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  #66  
Old 02-19-2011, 12:30 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
BJ, your posts explore new levels of pathetic.
Charming to see you stick up for your trainee.

However, it's not going to work when ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
I still think ...
... your lies are so easy to spot.
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  #67  
Old 02-19-2011, 12:55 AM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Charming to see you stick up for your trainee.

However, it's not going to work when ...



... your lies are so easy to spot.
I still don't get how I'm the trainee! I was here first...
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  #68  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:38 AM
johnmarzan johnmarzan is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

frances fox piven may get her wish

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardferna...pt-in-america/
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  #69  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:38 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Hello [strike]Wisconsin[/strike] Koch Bros!

Ah, things suddenly become a lot more clear.

Lee Fang reports: more conservative Grassroots action!

Quote:
Koch Industries Slashed WI Jobs, Helped Elect Scott Walker, Now Orchestrating Pro-Walker Protest

Wisconsins newly elected Republican Gov. Scott Walker is facing a growing backlash over his attempt to cut pay and eliminate collective bargaining rights for public employees in his state. Although Walker is claiming his power grab is an attempt to close a budget gap, the budget crisis was engineered by Walker as soon as he got into office. As Brian Beutler reported, half of the budget shortfall comes from Walkers own tax cuts for businesses and other business giveaways enacted in January.

A number of the big business interests standing with Walker are beneficiaries of his administrations tax giveaways. But the greatest ally to Walker is the dirty energy company Koch Industries. In response to the growing protests in Madison, Koch fronts are busing in Tea Party protesters to support Walker and his union-busting campaign. Last night, MSNBCs Ed Schultz reported on the involvement of Club for Growth and the Koch-financed Americans for Prosperity in the pro-Walker protest scheduled tomorrow. Watch it:

[video at source]

Koch Industries is a major player in Wisconsin: Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

[...]

Koch Industries was one of the biggest contributors to Walkers gubernatorial campaign, funneling $43,000 over the course of last year. In return, Koch front groups are closely guiding the Walker agenda. The American Legislative Exchange Council, another Koch-funded group, advised Walker and the GOP legislature on its anti-labor legislation and its first corporate tax cuts.

According to the EPA, Koch businesses are huge polluters, emitting thousands of pounds of toxic pollutants. As soon as he got into office Walker started cutting environmental regulations and appointed a Republican known for her disregard for environmental regulations to lead the Department of Natural Resources. In addition, Walker has stated his opposition to clean energy jobs policies that might draw workers away from Koch-owned interests.

Moreover, other organizers for the pro-Walker protest are from groups associated with corporate and Koch interests. American Majority, a Virginia-based front group founded by organizers funded by millionaire investor Howie Rich, is on the ground contacting Wisconsin Tea Parties to support Walker in Madison. Austin James, an American Majority official who was caught teaching Tea Party members to spam Amazon.com profiles of liberal books with negative comments, is the contact for the Facebook page organizing the pro-Walker protest. Eric OKeefe, a longtime conservative operative who helps lead American Majority, attends Koch strategy meetings.

Update Koch's Americans for Prosperity group has launched a new website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The new site attacks all collective bargaining, not just for public sector unions. Koch's front group also declares: "In fact, every state should adopt Governor Scott Walker's common sense reforms."
(h/t: StrangeAppar8us/Rumproast)

==========

[Added] Heh. Right after I posted the above, the following Google ad appeared at the top of the page:

Quote:
Moore to Shut Shown WI
Michael Moore wants to "Shut Down" WI. Help the GOP fight back now!
Guess they didn't have space to mention that he's fat.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 02-19-2011 at 01:43 AM..
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  #70  
Old 02-19-2011, 10:42 AM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
I still don't get how I'm the trainee! I was here first...
Facts aren't friends of BJ.
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  #71  
Old 02-19-2011, 04:22 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
That's why there's always talking points and bile, eh BJ?
You should know. Let's debunk some term-twisting from your arsenal of talking-bile-point-shit:
Quote:
thug (thg)
n.
1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.
2. also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.
[Hindi hag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthaga, a cheat, from sthagati, sthagayati, he conceals; see (s)teg- in Indo-European roots.]
thugger暄 n.
thuggish adj.
The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
thug [θʌg]
n
1. a tough and violent man, esp a criminal
2. (Historical Terms) (sometimes capital) (formerly) a member of an organization of robbers and assassins in India who typically strangled their victims
[from Hindi thag thief, from Sanskrit sthaga scoundrel, from sthagati to conceal]
thuggery n
thuggish adj
Collins English Dictionary Complete and Unabridged HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
This is and age old talking point used by power hungry, bonus driven managers and administrators to smear the people in the trenches, and keep more company or taxpayer money for themselves. You do understand that the overpaid public sector administrators, bureaucrats and managers are not in the union, right?

Talking points need to at least sound plausible. Your "thugs and morons" will invariably backfire, not just because it sounds mean spirited and desperate, but because it does not contain even a grain of factuality.

The new car czar didn't fire the auto workers, or bust the unions, he canned the incompetent fat cat CEO who was really running GM into the ground, and saved the company... so your propaganda machine's knee jerk support of management over workers can prove to be disastrously counterproductive.
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Last edited by handle; 02-19-2011 at 04:27 PM..
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  #72  
Old 02-19-2011, 06:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by operative View Post
It's abundantly clear that coherent thinking is beyond your aptitude. That's why there's always talking points and bile, eh BJ?
Not at all. And I fail to see how you could be capable of judging that in me or anyone else. Being able to fit everything you encounter into a zealous creed, which is so far all you have ever displayed on this site, is not anything close to coherent thinking. In fact, it's not much better than what a lesser parrot can do.
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:10 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Hello Wisconsin! Here comes the stupid!

The average IQ of Wisconsin is expected to plummet shortly: Andrew Breitbart, "Joe" the "Plumber," and Hateway Pundit have all announced plans to travel to Madison to "stand with Walker."
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:32 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello [strike]Wisconsin[/strike] Koch Bros!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Ah, things suddenly become a lot more clear.

Lee Fang reports: more conservative Grassroots action!
More news of the Koch Bros and their stealth purchase of the Wisconsin state government:

Quote:
[...]

According to Wisconsin campaign finance filings, Walker's gubernatorial campaign received $43,000 from the Koch Industries PAC during the 2010 election. That donation was his campaign's second-highest, behind $43,125 in contributions from housing and realtor groups in Wisconsin. The Koch's PAC also helped Walker via a familiar and much-used politicial maneuver designed to allow donors to skirt campaign finance limits. The PAC gave $1 million to the Republican Governors Association, which in turn spent $65,000 on independent expenditures to support Walker. The RGA also spent a whopping $3.4 million on TV ads and mailers attacking Walker's opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker ended up beating Barrett by 5 points. The Koch money, no doubt, helped greatly.

The Kochs also assisted Walker's current GOP allies in the fight against the public-sector unions. Last year, Republicans took control of the both houses of the Wisconsin state legislature, which has made Walker's assault on these unions possible. And according to data from the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, the Koch Industries PAC spent $6,500 in support of 16 Wisconsin Republican state legislative candidates, who each won his or her election.

Walker's plan to eviscerate collective bargaining rights for public employees is right out of the Koch brothers' playbook. Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited (PDF) Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado; Mix said in a recent interview that he supports Governor Walker's collective-bargaining bill. In Wisconsin, this conservative, anti-union view is being placed into action by lawmakers in sync with the deep-pocketed donors who helped them obtain power. (Walker also opposes the state's Clean Energy Job Act, which would compel the state to increase its use of alternative energy.) At this momenteven with the Wisconsin uprising unresolvedthe Koch brothers' investment in Walker appears to be paying off.
(h/t: TBogg, whose post must be visited for the graphics work alone. Also, because the post title will give the operative wood. Or make him faint. One of those two.)
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:40 PM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
I know, I know. But come on, I'm from North Carolina. It's all cold up there and the people all say "bag" wrong. I can't be expected to make fine distinctions between Midwesterners when it would prevent me from making such a fun movie reference. And if any Midwesterns are at all bothered by this, I invite you to compare my intelligence unfavorably with a sack of hammers.
You mean "bag," don't you? (Pronounced "bayg" in the Upper Midwest style...)

On a side note, I'm wondering, Zeke, what you think of the Democratic legislators in Wisconsin resorting to fleeing the state to avoid a losing vote on the public union bill. Is that not similar to the abuse of procedure that you see in the U.S. Senate minority's frequent resort to the filibuster? Just asking.
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Last edited by rfrobison; 02-19-2011 at 08:48 PM.. Reason: punctuation
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  #76  
Old 02-19-2011, 08:47 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
On a side note, I'm wondering, Zeke, what you think of the Democratic legislators in Wisconsin resorting to fleeing the state to avoid a losing vote on the public union bill. Is that not similar to the abuse of procedure that you see in the U.S. Senate minority's frequent resort to the filibuster? Just asking.
I for one am wondering why you're equating once with "frequent."
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
You mean "bag" don't you? (Pronounced "bayg" in the Upper Midwest style...)

On a side note, I'm wondering, Zeke, what you think of the Democratic legislators in Wisconsin resorting to fleeing the state to avoid a losing vote on the public union bill. Is that not similar to the abuse of procedure that you see in the U.S. Senate minority's frequent resort to the filibuster? Just asking.
How many times have the Democratic legislators done that?
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:52 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
How many times have the Democratic legislators done that?
Jinx!
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
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Old 02-19-2011, 08:53 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hello Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
Good for Ezra for acknowledging this.
Silly Ezra.
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