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  #1  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

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  #2  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:51 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Link to diavlog ...

... is here.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:04 PM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Some of my Buddhist links:

Western Philosophy "Integration"
(click on Buddhism to get to the four noble truths)

http://www.thebigview.com/contents.html

Speaking of Faith

http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.o...s/2009/ricard/
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.o...thichnhathanh/

Medical

http://www.umassmed.edu/content.aspx?id=41252
http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/mbsr/locate_action.cfm
http://www.uvamindfulnesscenter.org/home.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/113735.php
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/302/12/1284
http://www.rachelremen.com/
http://www.ahrq.gov/downloads/pub/ev...tion/medit.pdf
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/113735.php
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004998.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/Meditation/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/whatisca...y/mindbody.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus
http://www.umassmed.edu/Content.aspx?id=41254
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1...heart-attacks/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/he....html?_r=1&hpw
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1...d-mindfulness/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...654964#7650123

Science, Universities

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4770779
http://marc.ucla.edu/
http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22&oTopID=22
http://www.albany.edu/~me888931/home.html
http://www.bethanykok.com/

TED lectures

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/m...happiness.html
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/b...e_buddhas.html
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/w...nd_ritual.html

Buddhism
http://www.buddhanet.net/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4979052
http://www.glennwallis.com/yahoo_sit...s.21171305.pdf
http://www.spiritrock.org/display.asp?catid=3&pageid=13
http://www.unc.edu/peplab/publicatio...openhearts.pdf
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/index-english.html
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/
http://www.sgi-usa.org/
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?
http://home.att.net/~meditation/MeditationHandbook.html
http://how-to-meditate.org/
http://www.tenzenseconds.com/welcome.html
http://www.ayurveda-berkeley.com/tib...background.htm
http://www.spiritualcrisisnetwork.org.uk/index.htm
http://www.freebuddhistaudio.com/
http://www.audiodharma.org/timer/timer.html
https://ssl.wowpages.com/onsiterecor...conference=137
http://www.mindfulnessdc.org/mindfulclock.html
http://happydays.blogs.nytimes.com/2...tor-is-within/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/lotus/index.htm
http://www.tipitaka.org/
http://www.suttareadings.net/audio/index.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html
http://sites.google.com/site/marcell...ness-resources
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma10/bbodhi10.html
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/bodhi/index.php
http://www.vipassana.com/index.php
http://www.baus.org/baus/index.html
http://www.bdcublessings.net.au/chanting.html
http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/resour...da_chants.html
http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/
http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/centers.php%20
http://www.ysdharma.org/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...meditate_N.htm
http://happydays.blogs.nytimes.com/2...lf-meditating/
http://www.wildmind.org/
http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/
http://www.bluedomers.com/
http://www.qalias.com/view_profile/Nikko/Hansen/853/0/
http://www.geocities.com/chris_holte...ism/index.html
http://reluctant-messenger.com/buddha.htm
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks-guidedmeditation.html
http://www.dalailama.com/
http://humaninsightsgroup.org/FoodFo...t/FFT-20b.html
http://themiddleway.net/2006/12/28/f...n-chimestimer/
http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~schmitzr/bgz.htm
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/B...Time_and_Space
http://www.dharma.org/ij/archives/20...kkhu_bodhi.htm
http://www.dharma.org/index.html
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/mindf...in_english.pdf
http://www.mindfulness.com/
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.ph...k=view&id=2990
http://www.bestinmh.org.uk/answers/p...MHAnswer82.pdf
http://ftworthbuddhas.tripod.com/sit...erfiles/gongyo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arahant_(Buddhism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Buddhism
http://www.garrisoninstitute.org/home.php
http://www.cnvc.org/
http://www.deerparkmonastery.org/com...ness-trainings

For Skeptics:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...el-hita-torres

Last edited by SkepticDoc; 11-24-2009 at 06:37 AM.. Reason: sorting URLs to make more manageable
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:04 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Do you have any more links so that I can check them all before watching this diavlog?


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  #5  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:39 PM
Alworth Alworth is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

We said we'd link to the four noble truths--and probably they're in SkepticDoc's list!

A comment or two on this diavlog. As Apollo-ites, we were aiming for a 20-minute cap, which makes treating the subject of Buddhism a mite tough. We tried to keep it to the question of mindfulness, but ...

I am gorgeous. Too bad they use this filter.

I had hoped not to talk too much, and until just seeing it now, thought I had accomplished that. But I see I rattled on a lot longer than I thought. Sorry!
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alworth View Post
We said we'd link to the four noble truths--and probably they're in SkepticDoc's list!

A comment or two on this diavlog. As Apollo-ites, we were aiming for a 20-minute cap, which makes treating the subject of Buddhism a mite tough. We tried to keep it to the question of mindfulness, but ...
I expressed the same in my other post.

Quote:
I am gorgeous. Too bad they use this filter.
Don't worry about the filter. Anybody can tell you're gorgeous.

Quote:
I had hoped not to talk too much, and until just seeing it now, thought I had accomplished that. But I see I rattled on a lot longer than I thought. Sorry!
Meh. You're just fishing for more compliments.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:55 PM
Alworth Alworth is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Not biting?
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:42 AM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

I organized the URLs, to make the list more manageable...
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2009, 09:16 PM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Another link:

Center for Buddhist Studies at Columbia

The podcasts are worth exploring.

And:

http://www.urbandharma.org/kusala/dad.html

Last edited by SkepticDoc; 12-01-2009 at 11:54 PM..
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:08 PM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default More links, Peer-reviewed publications

Mindfulness Research Update 2008
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2010, 07:15 PM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: More links...

If you are in a hurry:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chadem..._b_479060.html

More about Meng:

http://www.chademeng.com/
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:04 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

I guess the bhTV staff just wants bloggers effectively to disseminate these Apollo diavlogs!
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:23 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
I guess the bhTV staff just wants bloggers effectively to disseminate these Apollo diavlogs!
Sorry?
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:36 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

There's no link to Apollo diavlogs on the bhTV diavlogs pages, individual or main, and the forum link is busted. I guess Apollo is just a way to distract commenters and massage our egos.
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:14 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

ahhhh you may be right. I think there IS a little thought into making sure in some subtle ways that Apollo actually never quite gets into space....maybe so as to not somehow disturb the professional astronutts. (Now a couple have been pretty good...but in general they have nothing to fear...ouch)

...now I have seen some pretty visible bugs exist on large systems for an unseemly amount of time but making the "View Diavlog" work almost seems easier than...say...disabling it. ;o)
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  #16  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:26 AM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Link to diavlog ...

Surely that was an over-sight, but it was a pain. Uh...an over-sight that hasn't been fixed yet...

I still think it's fun. It's a way for the average person to 'play diavlog.' It's a way to challenge yourself, expand your experience, receive feed-back, make the community more integrated, whatever that means, etc.
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  #17  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:33 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

OK. I changed my mind and decided to watch this diavlog before checking the links.

Great job! Congrats to both!

But, once again, too short. The diavloggers introduced a number of related topics, each of which would easily fill a full hour. Perhaps there will be a follow up.

We should call this project "Apollo Headlines."
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Interesting...

A couple things...the bird, the submarine, or the bird piloting the submarine needs to be in another room next time.

I am not sure if you two started with much of an outline but there was a little lack of choreography that caused...well...a little suffering at times. Once you got wound up and things started to flow a little better it seemed like you were running out of time. I have an interest in "mindfulness" that started with a Buddist connection so I WAS sitting on the edge of my seat trying to absorb your offering.

*side note....The masking has to go.

A Fur Story...and speaking of choreography...

The first time I was sent to China I had the good fortune of working for a company out of Singapore that outsourced to America to purchase someone with my skill set. Working with Singaporeans in China has its advantages as most not only speak fluent Mandarin and English (so I had built in interpreters) but they also were almost more wary of what we were eating than I was. ;o)

I was there for a couple months but on the first Friday evening the upper mgmt of the plant where I was working took the 3 Singaporeans and I to a 5 star hotel that had an amazing eatery that rivaled any place I had ever dined at (complete with food I recognized ;o) ). After dinner it was decided we would walk through a large park across the street that was loaded with people, and hucksters selling things (kites, trinkets etc.) and beggers. Music was being piped in and hundreds were doing that choreographed/martial artsy dance they do.

Now the town I was in (Fuzhou) is not a big tourist destination and actually I only saw 4 other white people in 2 months time. Now I am a bit over 6 ft tall and 220 lbs. (of twisted steel and sex appeal), a trimmed but full beard, and at the time hair to the middle of my back. Needless to say, I stood out a little and there were times when the beggers would see me blocks away and liturally come running. One of the only bits of advice anyone ever gave me before the trip was to say no to the beggers...which was difficult at times. Well... as we walked through this park I was approached by beggers a number of times and my Chinese hosts would quickly get in-between and scold whomever it was doing the begging and all would reluctantly and somewhat angrily go away. I felt bad for both the host, as he seemed embarrassed to have to do it, and for the beggers also...although most there were able bodied.

Near the end of the walk and as we once again were passing by the large group of choreographed dancers, an older woman (60+) snuck in behind our group and pulled on my shirt. I turned around and she smiled showing all of her 4 teeth, said something and held out her hand. Again my Chinese host turned and started yelling at the woman...who started yelling right back. After about 20 seconds of back and forth between the two, as we tried to continue to walk and she continued to follow and yell at him and smile at me, I stopped. Put my hand up in the universal "stop-sign", turned to the woman and asked her if she danced. She did not understand. I asked one of the Singaporeans to ask her if she would dance with me. He did. She looked puzzled. I held out my hand and she slowly grabbed it...and then my other and I proceeded to dance/led her (stiffly)around making use of some of the steps my wife has forced me to learn. You should have seen her smile and the crowd around us point and laugh at the hugh white dog-faced monster dancing with the little old lady. Thankfully, the music stopped after about a minute. I let go of her, bowed to her like Obama did recently in Japan while at the same time I grabbed a couple loose bills from my pocket. I reached out my empty hand again and this time she grabbed it without hesitation. I cupped it with my other shaking hers and discretely pressing the bills in her palm I said thank you, XieXie (shayshay), thank you. She nodded, almost stunned and we all proceeded to walk out of the park.

Ok the point, one of the Singaporeans was a "True" Buddhist and the next day he could not get over what transpired the day before and told me that I was a "natural". Now, I then discovered that Buddhists can be quite "evangelical" as every evening I would go out on the sidewalk to people watch (and be watched) and smoke a cigar. My Singaporean co-worker/friend made it a habit to join me and tell me stories of Nichiren (The true Buddha). The whole trip was a rather surreal experience, but those evenings on a bench near downtown Fuzhou smiling at the gawkers and listening to fanciful stories (or fantasy full stories) were amazing.

In any case, it might be interesting if this topic is broached again to explain where all these Buddha's came from and why and how and the differences and the simularities.

SkepticDoc..I too am an agnostic and I apologize for the suffering I have caused you. There may be a path to cessation. ;o)

Last edited by Whatfur; 11-24-2009 at 07:21 AM..
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  #19  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:35 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

tl;dr
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  #20  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
tl;dr
Sorry?
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:21 PM
look look is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatfur View Post
Sorry?
Too long didn't read...j/k
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2009, 02:46 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by look View Post
Too long didn't read...j/k
it;af....I tried and failed. The Black Knight's new strategy of punishing the reader with an agonizing yawnfest just might prove effective at abating those who would counter his bullshit. Well played Sir Knight!

Ever consider using a ghost writer? They are at least good for editing out pointless verbiage and anecdotes. And might even help tone down your delusion of self importance.

But all criticism aside, I must reiterate my admiration. A couple more like that, and you can finally declare victory in earnest.

Last edited by handle; 11-24-2009 at 03:07 PM..
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:57 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
it;af....I tried and failed. ....
handle...find a quiet place...sit erect on the edge of a chair...examine your breath...(you might want to chew a Certs first)...pretend Fur does not exist...pretend BHtv does not exist...pretend that is not the same thing...pretend people don't find it strange that you only exist to follow Fur around...pretend you have something to offer...now hold your breath...hold...hold...keep holding...bye handle this is the last response you will ever get from me...peace friend
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:20 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatfur View Post
...bye handle this is the last response you will ever get from me...
Noted for the record.
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  #25  
Old 11-25-2009, 03:35 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

It's obvious he fancies himself a writer, so I suspected my negative (not undeserved, mind you) review would push him right over the edge.
I am now free to refute his posts without having to suffer his inane defensiveness, and persecution complex. Merry Christmas to me!

I only hope he doesn't take it out on his family over the holidays.

And speaking of Christmas, is the Fox news "liberal war on Christmas" on again this year? Or has it been eclipsed by the Black Knight's "war on the American dream"?
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  #26  
Old 11-25-2009, 04:27 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatfur View Post
you have something to offer...now hold your breath...hold...hold...keep holding...bye handle this is the last response you will ever get from me...peace friend
How many ways do I have to put this: the sum total of what you and I bring to this site is less than non-zero.
The difference between us is my keen sense of the obvious.

I understand you needing to save your energy to battle the fierce Sir Keef.
Don't look now, but your arm's off!

Godspeed, Sir Knight!
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2009, 12:16 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
How many ways do I have to put this: the sum total of what you and I bring to this site is less than non-zero.
The difference between us is my keen sense of the obvious.

I understand you needing to save your energy to battle the fierce Sir Keef.
Don't look now, but your arm's off!

Godspeed, Sir Knight!
Sorry, I must correct my math here. In my haste to deploy a Bob-ism, I made a glaring error... my point is correctly expressed as:

the sum total of what you and I bring to this site isn't non-zero.
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  #28  
Old 12-17-2009, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Good story. Non-Chinese do stick out in China. People love to stare, sell you stuff, or just interact with you.
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  #29  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:33 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Do you have links to any well-constructed studies that show meditation is beneficial? I'm skeptical meditation is a useful cure or helps doctors any more than improving the delivery of health care would provide. The NYT article looks like the record of a dodge: we can't really do much to improve services in our hospital, but we can make our doctors beleive they like their job more.

As my non-practicing Buddhist wife says: it's all fine and dandy until money's involved!
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  #30  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:45 PM
Alworth Alworth is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Baltimoron, there's a group called the Mind and Life Institute that has done scientific studies into the effects of meditation. Richard Davidson, a neuroscientist at UW-Madison has led a number of studies there. (One example.) For a fuller treatment, I'd recommend Daniel Goleman's "Destructive Emotions," which surveys a number of different studies. The link to the Mind and Life Center, which is connected to Davidson's work, is next to our heads in the diavlog.
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  #31  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:18 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Thanks!
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  #32  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:03 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Is this anything more than the placebo effect or confirmation bias?
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  #33  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:13 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
Do you have links to any well-constructed studies that show meditation is beneficial? I'm skeptical meditation is a useful cure or helps doctors any more than improving the delivery of health care would provide. The NYT article looks like the record of a dodge: we can't really do much to improve services in our hospital, but we can make our doctors beleive they like their job more.

As my non-practicing Buddhist wife says: it's all fine and dandy until money's involved!
Similar, there was a number of people heavily into bio-feedback 30 odd years ago...even where I remember reading a story of someone supposedly curing their cancer by attacking it with meditation and carrot juice. I think most all of it has been debunked.

A stress reducer, pain deflecter...sure.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:38 PM
spandrel spandrel is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
Do you have links to any well-constructed studies that show meditation is beneficial? I'm skeptical meditation is a useful cure or helps doctors any more than improving the delivery of health care would provide. The NYT article looks like the record of a dodge: we can't really do much to improve services in our hospital, but we can make our doctors beleive they like their job more.

As my non-practicing Buddhist wife says: it's all fine and dandy until money's involved!
As soon as I started listening I was reminded of an article I had read in Scientific American and I believe it is probably the same, or related, to the study Alworth mentions. From a summary I found:

The unexpected result of this experiment was that the EEG of long-term meditators exhibited much more gamma-synchrony than that of naive meditators. Moreover, normally human brains produce only short bursts of gamma-synchrony. What was most remarkable about this study was that long-term meditators were able to produce sustained gamma-activity in a manner that had never previously been observed in any other human.

So we can definitely conclude that meditation is good for boosting your gamma-synchrony.

The summary was from this paper in case you want the details. At a minimum, it does certainly suggest long-term benefits for increasing one's attention and concentration.
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  #35  
Old 01-01-2010, 01:14 PM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Money

We all worry about it, how to get it, how to spend it, how to save it...

I have not had a lot of exposure to requests for donations for Buddhist organizations (probably prohibited by the Sangha rules?), Baltimoron could you elaborate on your wife's comment?

Quote:
As my non-practicing Buddhist wife says: it's all fine and dandy until money's involved!
After "surviving" the end-of-the-year requests for donations (ACLU, Wikipedia) and the regular requests for donations from almost every "organization" (JREF, CFI, the first secular groups that come to mind!), I ponder what is the best approach to balance the dilemma.

Do we follow Carnegie's example, make as much as possible even at the expense of the lives of workers (Homestead) and then give it away through foundations?
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  #36  
Old 01-01-2010, 02:03 PM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default Re: Money

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Originally Posted by SkepticDoc View Post
We all worry about it, how to get it, how to spend it, how to save it...

I have not had a lot of exposure to requests for donations for Buddhist organizations (probably prohibited by the Sangha rules?), Baltimoron could you elaborate on your wife's comment?



After "surviving" the end-of-the-year requests for donations (ACLU, Wikipedia) and the regular requests for donations from almost every "organization" (JREF, CFI, the first secular groups that come to mind!), I ponder what is the best approach to balance the dilemma.

Do we follow Carnegie's example, make as much as possible even at the expense of the lives of workers (Homestead) and then give it away through foundations?
A friend of mine donates to CARE because they never ask him for more money.

I use bill payer for everything and never open my mail. That system works pretty good until somebody sends you a check!
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  #37  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:12 AM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

Nice job, guys!

The most interesting part for me was SkepticDoc's observation about the difficulty of measuring suffering (as opposed to pain) in his patients. Doctors now routinely ask patients to rate their pain on a scale of 1 to 10 with written examples of how the pain manifests that correspond to the numbers. But the quantification of subjective suffering does seem out of reach of science.

I would have liked to learn more from Alworth about Buddhist counseling for the sick and dying. (How does a Buddhist hospice differ from a Christian one?)

I also found it interesting that SD used the Christian Serenity Prayer as a point of departure. The Serenity Prayer is most widely known as the ritual opening and closing of 12-step programs like AA.

Such programs, as I've mentioned before to Ocean, seem very Buddhistic to me, especially in their emphasis on detachment.

AA, the mother of all 12-step programs, began among Christians influenced by the Oxford Group (of reborn sinners) but soon morphed into a more universal spiritual program that many atheists and agnostics also rely on, Higher Power rhetoric notwithstanding.
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Seek Peace and Pursue it
בקש שלום ורדפהו
Busca la paz y síguela
--Psalm 34:15
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  #38  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:30 AM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

I am not aware of any Buddhist Hospice programs, Hospice care "should" be free of any dogma, except for the commitment to provide comfort in the last days of awareness.

This JAMA link may help (OMG, one more link!)

We did not not cover our atheist foundations...

Last Sunday "60 Minutes" had a good piece on "the last days" and the expenses associated with them:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minu...rue&vs=Default

There are additional extras:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minu...=true&vs=Clips

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/60_minu...=true&vs=Clips

From CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayof...ter/index.html

Last edited by SkepticDoc; 11-24-2009 at 07:35 AM.. Reason: added another link
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  #39  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:03 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

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Originally Posted by SkepticDoc View Post
I am not aware of any Buddhist Hospice programs, Hospice care "should" be free of any dogma, except for the commitment to provide comfort in the last days of awareness.

....
I disagree and find it amazing that as a physician and someone who wants to dabble with easing the physical with the mental that you would deny a patient the possible extra solace they might find with their God.

Yes, it should be free of dogma for those who wish for it to be free of dogma.


p.s. seeing something on 60 minutes does not make it true.
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  #40  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:22 AM
SkepticDoc SkepticDoc is offline
 
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Default Re: Mindfulness in Medicine (Alworth & SkepticDoc)

I try to ignore your posts, but this one merits clarification.

Some patients want religious comfort and others don't, Hospice has to adapt to the individual patient's needs.

Some will want an evangelical preacher exorcising, others will want silence.

If you really care, look up Hal Bidlack's (a theist with the JREF) video on the last days of his atheist wife.
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