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  #1  
Old 03-19-2008, 07:58 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Pastors and Hookers Edition

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  #2  
Old 03-19-2008, 08:54 PM
jaoneal jaoneal is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Bob seems even crankier than usual. I think he's way too close to Obamania to analyze the speech in anything like an objective way. He really seemed p*ssed at Mickey for criticizing the speech--not Bob's best.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:02 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I didn't analyze Obama's speech line for line like Mickey did. The material about welfare, affirmative action, his grandmother, and the history of slavery didn't interest me. I wanted to see how he handled Pastor Wright. Well, he didn't do himself any favors in that department. I guess we are suppose to understand why Wright is the way he is and why Obama keeps attending the church. From what I see Wright is a bigot and I'll never understand why Obama attends such an incendiary congregation.
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  #4  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:17 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Why no dingalink

I supplied no digalink as I generally just download the wmv files and listen to them in the standalone player, because of the numerous technical glitches associated with the Flash Player versions. So while I am quite aware of how to construct them by hand it is not really worth the effort. In this particular Diavlog I don't think that anyone who listened to it could have actually missed it.
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:19 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I didn't view the entire diavlog due to technical problems. However, from what I saw Bob was cranky today.
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:20 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Mickey is loony if he thinks that even 1% of voters are going to choose a candidate based on welfare.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:22 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I found this hooker exchange priceless:

http://www.bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs...4&out=00:33:25
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:07 PM
dankingbooks dankingbooks is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I thought Mickey'x comments on why Spitzer hired prostitutes were plausible. For a fun, fictional, unflattering look at how and why men become sex tourists, you might enjoy Naked in Haiti: A sexy morality tale about tourists, prostitutes & politicians.
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Bob M Bob M is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/9562?in=00:16:47

I agree Iraq and immigration are the biggest cleavages among Republican voters, but weren't Iraq, Social Security, and Katrina the biggest blunders for the voters on the median?
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:09 PM
Bob M Bob M is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Maybe this has been addressed elsewhere, but what is the cost-benefit for Obama of this free publicity that he is a worshipping Christian versus the association with the seemingly extreme views of his pastor?
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:21 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: The point

I'm glad that Bob brought up a point that has been unremarked upon in the MSM. The whole message and point of Obama's speech was to explain to white America that the sentiment that was shown in the Jeremiah Wright videos happens all the time in black churches and within the black community and is really not something to be alarmed about. And then he (Obama) went on to explain why many black Americans feel that way, and tried to show a parallel in the white community. I really don't see how the speech was in any way offensive. I don't understand Mickey's reaction at all. From a political perspective maybe, but I found it to be an incredibly well-written speech that was honest and pulled no punches in a very complex subject. Mickey thinks that everyone is as upset about welfare as he is, and everyone hates unions, and everyone is scared of a Mexican takeover. Unfortunately, his thumb is noticeably removed from the pulse of most Americans. Those are issues for SOME, but not on such an obsessive level as he sees them.

Looking forward to hearing Louwry/McWhorter discuss the speech.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:41 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: The point

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
... The whole message and point of Obama's speech was to explain to white America that the sentiment that was shown in the Jeremiah Wright videos happens all the time in black churches and within the black community and is really not something to be alarmed about. ...
So Senator Obama's jobs was to tell white Americans that Blacks promoting bigotry and hatred in the church pews is quite acceptable and then convince us that we shouldn't be alarmed by this or the effect that it has on the next generation of Blacks.

Yea makes sense to me!

Last edited by piscivorous; 03-19-2008 at 11:44 PM..
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:11 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaoneal View Post
Bob seems even crankier than usual. I think he's way too close to Obamania to analyze the speech in anything like an objective way. He really seemed p*ssed at Mickey for criticizing the speech--not Bob's best.
I see it as the opposite, Bob's illness allowed him to temper - as in set aside - his usual patience for Mickey's contradictory and as Bob points out, self-serving so-called contrarian take.
Mickey states: Only he, unlike all MSM elites thought the speech a disaster. And then Bob calls him disingenuous for claiming to despair for Obama's missed chance to win over certain white voters. Bob suggests that Mickey's Clinton support makes his claim hypocritical. Mickey twistedly replies that if only the speech had worked... Obama could win Pennsylvania decisively and save the Democratic party. Which Mickey so obviously loves. Right.
And Mickey also claims that everyone - and this must be a different everyone than those that loved the speech - is offended by the presumption of Obama speaking about white resentment, well at least at the "The Corner" (NRO) - he thinks (obviously, don't quote him), and also is taken aback by Bob's cranky pursuit of holding him accountable.

I still love the pairing but, Mickey is continually exasperating. You know, just like that crazy Uncle... I mean Grandmother that has racist sentiments, that you still love. Alright, maybe I will throw him under the bus. Not.

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 03:10 PM..
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:16 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: Gramma

I completely took the grandmother line a different way. I thought it was to tell white people it's ok if young black guys passing you on the street at night make you nervous. It doesn't mean you're racist, and anyone would have to denounce you if your real thoughts were known. Because even a woman with a black grandson thinks that.

It never occurred to me he was calling his grandmother a racist. ??? Really? "Throwing grandmother under the bus"? That has to be a willfully ignorant reading. Do that many people really take that away from it?
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:26 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Gramma

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
I completely took the grandmother line a different way. I thought it was to tell white people it's ok if young black guys passing you on the street at night make you nervous. It doesn't mean you're racist, and anyone would have to denounce you if your real thoughts were known. Because even a woman with a black grandson thinks that.

It never occurred to me he was calling his grandmother a racist. ??? Really? "throwing grandmother under the bus"? That has to be a willfully ignorant reading. Do that many people really take that away from it?
Yes, Obama was calling His Grandmother a racist, or at least acknowledging that she expressed, held, maintained and or was guilty of what many could construe as racism.
But, telling that story(truth) is not akin to throwing Her under the bus.

I do not think anyone other than a "spinner" can make the case. My Grandparents were the same, I had always felt comfortable calling them on it, or expressing it to others about them. Sadly, they took that sentiment with them to the grave.

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 12:29 AM..
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:34 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Why no dingalink

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
I supplied no digalink as I generally just download the wmv files and listen to them in the standalone player, because of the numerous technical glitches associated with the Flash Player versions. So while I am quite aware of how to construct them by hand it is not really worth the effort. In this particular Diavlog I don't think that anyone who listened to it could have actually missed it.
Since Bob and Mickey singled you out for not Dingalinking, I offer a second complaint that reiterates that the flash-player sucks!, I have not been able to view an episodes for weeks, without downloading it as WMV or mp3. So, Until "they" fix the bug(s), they should lay off the fish.

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 12:36 AM..
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:36 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

this one made me really happy.

http://www.bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs...8&out=00:39:42

heh. i feel ya, mickey.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:45 AM
beve83 beve83 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I'm sorry, Mickey Kaus, but just because a young black man is following you does not mean you are going to get mugged!!!

geeeze!

My cousins, brothers, friends, classmates are "young black men" who occasionally walk home late at night, and I assure you they would not mug you, you have my word.. So I'm sorry its not a "duh" moment. It's a racist moment to AUTOMATICALLY equate being followed by a young black man is = dangerous. That is the textbook example of racism, being pre-judged by the color of your skin, and I'm surprised that even white liberals who I'm sure took ethnic studies, and perhaps the odd Af-Am / Chincano Studies course, would even suggest such a thing.

This "great race debate" is over before it even began with such fundamental disagreements.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:54 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: Gramma

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Yes, Obama was calling His Grandmother a racist, or at least acknowledging that she expressed, held, maintained and or was guilty of what many could construe as racism.
yeah, i'm down with the "many could construe" part. but i took his point to be that neither his grandmother nor wright is a "racist," even though a moment might make it seem that way.

i'm reading into it, but i think the word "racist" implies a consistency. a racist is a racist at all times. and "my grandmother" implies a good person, therefore they can't equate.

horseshit or not, you decide........
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:55 AM
scotchex scotchex is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Wow, Bob seemed beyond cranky ... much harsher words come to mind. He came pretty close to calling Mickey a racist. Geez.

I thought the speech made Obama's situation worse. He didn't explain why he stayed in a racist, anti-American church for 20 years. Instead he defended his racist pastor, lectured white people and took a couple cheap shots at his elderly grandmother who raised him.

It was a mean and classless speech ... and it didn't address the issue. Either Obama actually is a closet racist, anti-American -- or just pretended to be one to get elected in south-side Chicago. Neither reflects well on the man's character or decency.
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  #21  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:00 AM
beve83 beve83 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

http://www.brainwaveweb.com/diavlogs/9562?in=00:04:02

Oh and I forgot to add, that this is why Black people (i.e. Wright) are mad: because statements like Kaus' continue to equate us with criminal behavior.

Dang, can't I just walk home at night without you thinking I might rob you???? You don't even know where I'm coming from. Most of the young black men I know would actually HELP YOU if you got robbed.

I'm sorry if my year round tan = run for cover, that's how I came out the womb. Nothing I can do about it other than apply skin bleach and that didn't work out to well for Michael Jackson.

Ok I'm done.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:02 AM
beve83 beve83 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

http://www.brainwaveweb.com/diavlogs/9562?in=00:04:37

Robert = correct
Kaus = woefully wrong.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:12 AM
beve83 beve83 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Ok, I'm back.

I just can't stay away from this. First, upon further viewing, I must commend Robert Wright for saying what I was angrily (yes angrily) saying at my laptop. Its so annoying and sometimes, hurtful to hear statements along the lines of "yes Obama did a great speech on racial divisions, but too bad he missed pandering to the holy grail of voters: white under-educated males" I guess it was......."a disaster"??? Really??

Its like, EVEN in a debate on race, it doesn't matter if Black people are being included or even are the subject----you gotta make sure the white guys understand and are not offended! Please! Don't alienate white working class men from the upper mid-west! Anything but that!

I guess, we're all equal, but some are much more equal than others.
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:25 AM
beve83 beve83 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

I like how Kaus keeps saying "actively alienate whites"

Let me ask you all something, have white people ever been alienated by the American government?
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:27 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Gramma

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
yeah, i'm down with the "many could construe" part. but i took his point to be that neither his grandmother nor wright is a "racist," even though a moment might make it seem that way.

i'm reading into it, but i think the word "racist" implies a consistency. a racist is a racist at all times. and "my grandmother" implies a good person, therefore they can't equate.

horseshit or not, you decide........
I take your point, but I guess I was personalizing it as well. My Grandparents were good peeps, but it became obvious to me over time that they were "racists" in the sense that they expressed similar things that Obama attributed to his Loving Grandmother. Obama did not offer any details that might suggest that those sentiments or expression were a one-off or exception.
Not trying to split hairs, but who amongst us doesn't harbor prejudice that if scrutinized might qualify as "consistent." And if that prejudice is race related, it wouldn't be a stretch to impute "racism."

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 01:34 AM..
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:32 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by beve83 View Post
I like how Kaus keeps saying "actively alienate whites"

Let me ask you all something, have white people ever been alienated by the American government?
It is irritating how The"mickey" poses as a spokesman for all the alienated whites. Chutzpah and conceit come to mind, but not to excuse or rationalize...thats Mickey. He blusters, overstates and sometimes offers speculation that is not fully supported by facts. Nice work if you can get it.
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:42 AM
whwood75 whwood75 is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Mickey is correct to say that Obama did not make personal political gain the primary goal of his recent speech on race. Sometime Bloggingheads contributor Andrew Sullivan got closer to the essence of Obama's message when he wrote as follows:

Alas, I cannot give a more considered response right now as I have to get on the road. But I do want to say that this searing, nuanced, gut-wrenching, loyal, and deeply, deeply Christian speech is the most honest speech on race in America in my adult lifetime. It is a speech we have all been waiting for for a generation. Its ability to embrace both the legitimate fears and resentments of whites and the understandable anger and dashed hopes of many blacks was, in my view, unique in recent American history.

And it was a reflection of faith - deep, hopeful, transcending faith in the promises of the Gospels. And it was about America - its unique promise, its historic purpose, and our duty to take up the burden to perfect this union - today, in our time, in our way.

I have never felt more convinced that this man's candidacy - not this man, his candidacy - and what he can bring us to achieve - is an historic opportunity. This was a testing; and he did not merely pass it by uttering safe bromides. He addressed the intimate, painful love he has for an imperfect and sometimes embittered man. And how that love enables him to see that man's faults and pain as well as his promise. This is what my faith is about. It is what the Gospels are about. This is a candidate who does not merely speak as a Christian. He acts like a Christian.

Bill Clinton once said that everything bad in America can be rectified by what is good in America. He was right - and Obama takes that to a new level. And does it with the deepest darkest wound in this country's history.

I love this country. I don't remember loving it or hoping more from it than today.

(from http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...he-speech.html )
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:00 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Yes. Sullivan takes the high road in his assesment. So many other Bloggers, pundits and Mickey offer knee-jerk political interpretations if not outright spin. Thats OK. But it would be nice if context were applied with the conjecture.
The speech, the candidate and the man do matter.
I have been reading Sullivan again lately. I am ashamed to say that I lost interest sometime ago when he seemed to focus predominantly on torture. Torture, I get it - bad. I simply lost my sense of compassion and overload set in. And this highlights the problem of complacency we now have to contend with. Five years in Iraq and the reportage is at an all time low. McCain is allowed to equate Al Qaeda with Iran without much fall-out. Bush gets to conflate War (in Iraq) with Terrorism? 9/11. So it goes.

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 02:13 AM..
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:05 AM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Quote:
Wow, Bob seemed beyond cranky ... much harsher words come to mind. He came pretty close to calling Mickey a racist. Geez.
Geez and Geezus! Not Mickey! Not the guy who has made a sleazy career of being a political gossip columnist monomaniacally devoted to bashing Mexican immigrant families?

Quote:
I thought the speech made Obama's situation worse. He didn't explain why he stayed in a racist, anti-American church for 20 years.
The church is neither racist nor anti-American, and Rev. Wright is an inspiring leader. The only thing he's guilty of, as far as I can tell, is one crazy statement about AIDS.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:13 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Note to Mickey

Mickey:

I have some reason to believe that you might not come across this, but in the audacity of hope, here goes.

I wouldn't have thought it possible for you to sink any lower with your usual concern trolling and incoherent thinking than you did during the first half of this diavlog, but you have convinced me: no matter how deep in the hole you get, you'll ignore ten ladders and keep looking for the shovel.

Your tone throughout the discussion of the Obama speech pained me. Here are some specific gripes.

o I don't know how you can start by saying that Obama should take "a strong position, however crazy, and stick with it," and then repeatedly insist shortly thereafter that he needs to run more like a Clinton. What, he should simultaneously be firm in his principles and resolve, and also say things that he doesn't believe in, pander shamelessly, and shift like the wind based on whatever is dominating this day's news cycle?

o I don't know why you endlessly babble about a black person's "victim mentality" when that is the dominant mindset of all white people who obsess about welfare and affirmative action.

o I'm not sure whether you count it as an upgrade that you have moved from relying on The National Enquirer to trusting everything you read on NewsMax. Didn't you used to be a journalist? Don't you remember anything about the integrity of sources? And I'm not sure if you truly believe that The Corner is in any way representative of what "everybody" is saying; this howler is either myopic to the Magoo level or downright dishonest.

o I wish you taken away a little something more from a thirty-seven minute speech than one line about his grandmother and the fact that Obama refused to go Sistah Souljah on Jeremiah Wright. The way you zoomed in on these two points made me wonder whether you're looking to fill one of those empty slots I've heard about.

Okay, so the speech didn't do it for you. No problem. There's no pleasing everybody, and I'm glad Obama didn't try. Given your ever-shifting litany of complaints, he definitely had no hope with you. I myself thought the speech was moving, intelligent, and amazing in its honesty, but I won't spend half an hour trying to convert you to my way of thinking. I wish you had made the same decision.

There comes a point where you have to say, "Okay, I know the only thing I know how to do is to adopt the kneejerk contrarian pose to everything that comes across my radar," and just admit that you have nothing useful to say about some subjects. (To your credit, you later acknowledged this.) What black people worry about, how they should think, and how a black candidate should address them may well be numbers 1, 2, and 3 on this list.

I'm sorry that I do not believe your protestations that you're just looking to save the Democrats from themselves. Instead, I believe you're being disingenuous, and are bent on keeping inane anti-Obama memes alive. At this point, hearing about how only Ann Coulter can save us from the evil immigrants who help John Edwards cover up his extramarital affairs with diseased-carrying members of the teachers' unions would seem like a breath of fresh air.

P.S. Although I might have said "out" instead, there is at least one point on which we agree.
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  #31  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:22 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

beve83:

All of your comments have been spot-on, and

Quote:
Its so annoying and sometimes, hurtful to hear statements along the lines of "yes Obama did a great speech on racial divisions, but too bad he missed pandering to the holy grail of voters: white under-educated males" I guess it was......."a disaster"??? Really??
that was especially well said.
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:28 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: The point

Quote:
Originally Posted by piscivorous View Post
So Senator Obama's jobs was to tell white Americans that Blacks promoting bigotry and hatred in the church pews is quite acceptable and then convince us that we shouldn't be alarmed by this or the effect that it has on the next generation of Blacks.

Yea makes sense to me!
Pisc:

If that's all you're able to hear, then there won't be any changing your mind. That is not at all what Obama said. You should listen to the speech. Don't just skim the transcript looking for pull quotes that support your preconceived notions. Have the decency and respect to listen to the whole thing.
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:30 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Note to Mickey

Brendan:

As we know, when Bob offered you a shout-out, Mickey stated He doesn't know you or read the forum. Therefore, he will not have the chance to stick his head between his "moose-tail" and offer a constructive reply.
So maybe you offered it rhetorically anyway. Either way, right-on. Upon viewing the diavlog, I considered it an entertaining distraction. Upon reflection, your distillation captures my subsequent yucky feelings. Hopefully Bob will increase his attacks and shame Mickey into repentance.

Last edited by graz; 03-20-2008 at 02:37 AM..
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  #34  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:37 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Gramma

osmium:

Quote:
"Throwing grandmother under the bus"? That has to be a willfully ignorant reading. Do that many people really take that away from it?
That's the talking point the Obama detractors have agreed upon. Never underestimate the focusing power of narrow-mindedness.

I would say, sadly, yes, many do take it that way. Sample the wingnut web sites (or better, see sites like alicublog and Sadly, No! for choice specimens).

However, many more do not. I, like you and graz, heard Obama talking about how none of us is free from fault, that all of us harbor some poisonous thoughts, and that he was comparing his grandmother to his preacher to make the point that just because people aren't perfect, it is precisely the case that you do not "throw them under the bus."

Man, I'm so sick of that expression.
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  #35  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:44 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Note to Mickey

graz:

Thanks.

Yes, I am aware that there is little hope of Mickey seeing my note to him. (I did note this in the first sentence.) Maybe Bob will call it to his attention. Or not. I don't pretend to have hope of getting Mickey to change his attitudes.

I wanted to express my irritation, and hoped that doing so would make people think of Mickey as a little less of a lovable buffoon and a little more of a counterproductive blowhard. I just found it helpful in organizing my thoughts to address him personally.
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  #36  
Old 03-20-2008, 02:51 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

whwood75:

I'm with graz -- nice find on the Sully post, and thanks for sharing it.

There are quite a few others out there who have expressed equal admiration, if perhaps not all as eloquently. The speech never had a hope of pleasing everybody, much less people who went into it with their minds made up, people who couldn't be bothered to listen to the whole thing, and people who are looking for any outlet they can find to give vent to their racist leanings. I think the speech gave his supporters a shot in the arm, helped sway some of the fence sitters, and as for the rest, we'll just have to hope that time wounds all heels.
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  #37  
Old 03-20-2008, 05:35 AM
a Duoist a Duoist is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

The emotion between the two men over Senator Obama's speech illustrates just how disastrous this speech was: it will be masticated by our body politic for the next five months, and will generate just as much emotion in August as it does now--not exactly the goal of the speech.

But come November, Reverend Wright and Senator Obama's speech will be an extremely effective 'talking point' for Republicans--again, not exactly the goal of the speech. For a bright man, what a disastrous speech.
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  #38  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:03 AM
BlueberrySky BlueberrySky is offline
 
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Default Re:Gramma

Obama's point was much more nuanced and sophisticated than simply exposing his grandmother as a racist. Our P.C. culture of the last 30 or so years, while necessary, has essentially created a very stark definition of what it means to be tolerant in public settings. The reality, however, is that there are a hell of a lot of people who harbor some prejudices, but are not actually hateful people. The public discussion on race has traditionally centered around ostracizing people who "cross the line". Obama is asking us to stop equating all statements of prejudice with Adolph Hitler and the KKK, because some of these sentiments, while unhealthy and destructive are more complex and merited than simple blind rage. Just like his red and blue state argument, he is attempting to tear down an unhealthy dichotomy. In this case its the concept of tolerance and intolerance.
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  #39  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:34 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Pastors and Hookers Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by a Duoist View Post
The emotion between the two men over Senator Obama's speech illustrates just how disastrous this speech was: it will be masticated by our body politic for the next five months, and will generate just as much emotion in August as it does now--not exactly the goal of the speech.
That's one prediction. Here's another.

The furor will last for the rest of this week, max, by which point, the only people still chirping about Pastor Wright will be Fox News, the rest of the Right Wing Noise Machine, and a bunch of lames who never were going to vote for a black man in the first place. Those few out-of-context clips of Wright are already getting stale, and there isn't going to be any more fresh meat coming from that direction. The Wright pendulum is already starting to swing in the other direction. (Here's a nice example.) The MSM has mostly called it already, labeling the speech anywhere from a good save and a boost to Obama's base, to a net gain for the candidate and the country. They're already looking for the next shiny object to hold up in front of the cameras.

Also, we'll see a dissipation of the hurt feelings coming from all those white people who were so shocked to find out that, yes, we still do have a race problem here in the US and not a few black and brown folk are still kinda pissed off about it, and some of them (better sit down for this one) are even so uppity that they presume the right to give voice to their anger. (Imagine that!)

Some of these white people, I grant, will not be able to move past this, and will vote accordingly. So be it. Most, I suspect, will go back to considering the more substantive issues. Some might even be the better for this whole experience.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 03-20-2008 at 06:36 AM..
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  #40  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:36 AM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Default Re: The point

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Pisc:

If that's all you're able to hear, then there won't be any changing your mind. That is not at all what Obama said. You should listen to the speech. Don't just skim the transcript looking for pull quotes that support your preconceived notions. Have the decency and respect to listen to the whole thing.
Actually I didn't read it in the speech I read it in the comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
I'm glad that Bob brought up a point that has been unremarked upon in the MSM. The whole message and point of Obama's speech was to explain to white America that the sentiment that was shown in the Jeremiah Wright videos happens all the time in black churches and within the black community and is really not something to be alarmed about. And then he (Obama) went on to explain why many black Americans feel that way, and tried to show a parallel in the white community. I really don't see how the speech was in any way offensive. I don't understand Mickey's reaction at all. From a political perspective maybe, but I found it to be an incredibly well-written speech that was honest and pulled no punches in a very complex subject. Mickey thinks that everyone is as upset about welfare as he is, and everyone hates unions, and everyone is scared of a Mexican takeover. Unfortunately, his thumb is noticeably removed from the pulse of most Americans. Those are issues for SOME, but not on such an obsessive level as he sees them.

Looking forward to hearing Louwry/McWhorter discuss the speech.
as uncle ebeneezer's opinion of what Senator Obama need to accomplish in the speech. And yes I do happen to believe that the perpetuation of and the exhortation to anger and hate, by the leading authority figure of any community organization, is a problem for both the adult members of that organization and particularly troublesome in it's ability to influence and distort the attitudes and development of the children that are repeatedly subjected to this style of rhetoric in the presence of adults that not only don't object but in fact applaud it.

I almost never listen to political speeches anymore as I find that reading them, not skimming them as must be your practice as it is your want to attribute this to me, allows me to pay attention to what the politician actually says instead of being caught up by the emotional appeal and rapture of the moment and the delivery.
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