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  #1  
Old 11-01-2010, 12:43 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)



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  #2  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:22 AM
claymisher claymisher is offline
 
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Default congrats

Congrats to Bob and company for hanging in there.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:54 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: congrats

I'd like to add congrats as well. And thanks. I love Bloggingheads.tv
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:37 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: congrats

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
I'd like to add congrats as well. And thanks. I love Bloggingheads.tv
Same here. And thanks also to all of the contributors -- diavloggers and commenters -- who help make it what it is.

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  #5  
Old 11-01-2010, 04:39 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
 
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Default Re: congrats

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I'd like to add congrats as well. And thanks. I love Bloggingheads.tv
Congratulations! Charming! Humorous! Erudite!
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:21 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: congrats

Congratulations!
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: congrats

I second...or third...or I guess forth that.....Seriously, great job.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:59 AM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Ok..i'm about 10 minutes in and Yusef Islam's presence at the Rally for Sanity was glossed over. The man did call for the death of Salman Rushdie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Ste...Salman_Rushdie and although he tries to back track now, he STILL says he is perfectly comfortable with the state killing someone for blasphemy--its on his web site at this moment: http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18

I think it is quite significant that this man was celebrated and celebrating on the stage at the "Rally for Sanity."
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:56 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Ok..i'm about 10 minutes in and Yusef Islam's presence at the Rally for Sanity was glossed over. The man did call for the death of Salman Rushdie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Ste...Salman_Rushdie and although he tries to back track now, he STILL says he is perfectly comfortable with the state killing someone for blasphemy--its on his web site at this moment: http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18

I think it is quite significant that this man was celebrated and celebrating on the stage at the "Rally for Sanity."
I must admit that I'm a bit torn.

On one hand, I think Yusef Islam's stated position on fatwa killings is nakedly evil.

On the other hand, "Tea For The Tillerman" and "Catch Bull At Four" are two of my all-time favorite albums. That monster was once responsible for bringing a lot of happiness into my life.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:01 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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I must admit that I'm a bit torn.

On one hand, I think Yusef Islam's stated position on fatwa killings is nakedly evil.

On the other hand, "Tea For The Tillerman" and "Catch Bull At Four" are two of my all-time favorite albums. That monster was once responsible for bringing a lot of happiness into my life.
Hey, baby, it's a wild world.
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:46 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Hey, baby, it's a wild world.
Nice.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:25 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

I hate it when Mickey says things like this. It's hard to keep track of how many unproven assertions are in that sentence. Is "the middle" alienated by Obama? Would they have responded better to a different message? Was support for immigration reform actually the heart of Obama's appeal to the base? Who knows? Who cares? The important thing to remember is that pre-1960's-style liberalism was good and post-1960's-style liberalism is bad. Mickey is falling into Lambchop mode here, I think.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:29 AM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Can't say that I agree with Mickey that card check is a "hot button" issue in this election cycle...
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:41 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Oh ... no he didn't...

... He just wants you to concede that expressing fears about Muslims (you know ... that white garb and that head-wear worn by students in New Jersey) is warranted. Your intransigence is PC crap... as far as he is concerned.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:45 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

More pet vlogging! The CPBP is pleased, and Frasier and Milo are adorable.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:54 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Darn. I liked the hoodie. Perhaps because it might be first frost tonight (and so I am wearing my hoodie (in a rather stunning shade of eggplant, if I do say so myself)), I saw it as Bob channeling President Carter, and a hoodie beats a cardigan any day of the week.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:06 AM
Tara Davis Tara Davis is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

mc chris concurs, for what it's worth.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Darn. I liked the hoodie. Perhaps because it might be first frost tonight (and so I am wearing my hoodie (in a rather stunning shade of eggplant, if I do say so myself)), I saw it as Bob channeling President Carter, and a hoodie beats a cardigan any day of the week.
But Bob looked uncomfortable. He is not the hoodie type. That's just what I would have guessed about him. Some people don't like hoodies. I think they look silly, though I suppose eggplant is a classy choice of color.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
But Bob looked uncomfortable. He is not the hoodie type. That's just what I would have guessed about him. Some people don't like hoodies. I think they look silly, though I suppose eggplant is a classy choice of color.
only when referred to as aubergine.
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  #20  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:20 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Disagree ...

... with Bob here.

While I will not hold "the media" solely responsible, I think they (I will pretend we can refer to them as a single entity from now on, for shorthand) deserve a lot more blame than he does. Yes, there is something to Bob's claim that "they respond to market forces." But one of the ways those forces work is obsessing over ratings numbers from last week, which among other things tends to mean that the people in charge of teevee shows, radio shows, op-ed pages, and even blogs see that X worked, so this week, to gain an edge over our competition, let's go with X+1. This often has the effect of making what was just barely acceptable a short while ago into the new meh, and so things just keep getting ramped up.

Sorry, but people, as assembled into herds, tend to consume more candy and circuses than is good for them. Especially if you don't make any effort to offer them anything else that's good for them and tastes good. And the younger people increasingly don't get any chance to know that there is even, theoretically, any alternative -- they think THE way to behave on teevee is to be a blowhard, and that's how you make it big.

Further, at some point, you can't just wave your Magic Market Forces Get Out Of Jail Free card. With power, with a big megaphone, and with access to and control over the nation's airwaves (and cabling infrastructure, etc.), you carry more responsibility. You can't just keep ducking this with bromides about Teh Stockholders, or mealy-mouthing like "hey, they'd just buy it somewhere else." There is such a thing as the public trust, however hard it might be to define.

Or enforce. And I got no good ideas about that. So all I can do is appeal to people's better angels, and if the people in charge of programming don't have any better angels, then I appeal to the rest of us to find some who do. We got a bunch of advertisers to stop running ads on Beck's show, so I know the principle exists.
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  #21  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:49 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Doughmick

Oh lord. Now Mickey is parroting Jonah Goldberg.

(h/t: brucds and Mark Kleiman)

==========

[Added] And then a few minutes afterward, it's non-stop praise for tax cuts. After bashing the stimulus. Which by the way was 1/3 tax cuts. And no, it wasn't a "trillion dollars." Maybe if your Republican heroes had let it be, we might have a bit better jobs situation by now. (And sorry, $213 billion is not acceptable as a rounding error, if that's what you think. And what would your fiscal responsibimility teabagger friends say to that?)

Add to this Zeke's dingalink.

If I hadn't already completely written the new Mickey off, I sure would now. It is one sad thing about this anniversary -- I remember when I used to think a lot more of him.

[Added2] I guess we can give a few points for honesty. Better late than never!

[Added3] Does it get worse? Yes, it gets worse, around 48:30. Your cryptoracism is leaking out, Mickey. You loved Bob when he talked about race as it made Obama look bad, and you call foul when Bob talked about race as is makes your friends D'Souza and Gingrich look bad.

And seriously? You're claiming race-tinged attacks on Obama only started recently, due to high unemployment? And that people only recently started calling him a Muslin, because they're pissed about the economy?

And around 60:00, you're saying it's okay to be scared of Muslin garb, even though you admit you don't know what it is?

And three more questions: Are you still lobbying on behalf of Ann Coulter to make your card-check hysteria seem fresh? And was it your conscious intent to ruin any good feeling associated with the Bhtv anniversary? And when are you moving your blog from Newsweek to Clownhall?
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2010, 05:06 AM
otto otto is offline
 
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The Eduardo / Mickey comparison actually occurred to me after watching the movie. Which shows I follow bh.tv a bit too much.
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  #23  
Old 11-01-2010, 05:59 AM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Thanks for the hours of conversation. The wealth of books and articles I've read, the links I accessed, and the discussions I've read and participated in prove the value of this resource. And then, there's just Frazier.
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  #24  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:44 AM
Bloggin' Noggin Bloggin' Noggin is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Happy Birthday, Blogging Heads! Hard to believe it's been 5 years already!

Mickey - two quick points:

1. Even pork is stimulus. You get stimulus just by paying people to dig holes and fill them back in, or by tossing money out of helicopters. Obama wanted to get some things we collectively needed anyway out of the stimulus. When the Republicans charge "pork", they are usually criticizing this attempt to spend on collective projects rather than just sending the money back to voters (especially the rich) in tax cuts. Of course there's room to criticize this or that project, but a) I've yet to hear any evidence that the stimulus mostly went to "pork" and b) pork is still stimulus -- the criticism is directed not at the stimulus qua stimulus, but qua independently valuable project.

2. Have you forgotten all the people who thought Clinton was a socialist (not to mention a murderer) last time around? The right-wing fringe freaks out every time we have a democrat in the White House. Same thing happened with Franklin Roosevelt, for that matter -- enough people were on his side though (mainly due to circumstances) that he could safely play the populist card and welcome the hatred of the right (who hadn't yet learned how to hide their money behind a bunch of nutty senior citizens in powdered wigs).
The teaparty is probably more visible and more of an obvious mass phenomenon, but the Clinton era was at the very beginning of the internet age -- we're much further along now. Also Clinton's economy did start off sluggish, but it was nowhere near 9.6 percent unemployment.

Mickey tells us that Obama could have signalled that he wasn't a socialist etc. if he were more experienced (less of an affirmative action baby), but look at Clinton's record. How well did he signal? He started from a smaller majority and yet still lost a similar number of seats.
Having a senior moment there, Mickey?
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:01 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by Bloggin' Noggin View Post
Have you forgotten all the people who thought Clinton was a socialist (not to mention a murderer) last time around? ...The teaparty is probably more visible and more of an obvious mass phenomenon, but the Clinton era was at the very beginning of the internet age -- we're much further along now. Also Clinton's economy did start off sluggish, but it was nowhere near 9.6 percent unemployment.
The Clinton era was also coincidental with Limbaugh going national with his radio program.

Bob doesn't understand what drives the anger on the right but that is because he is on the left. For the record, those who are on the right don't buy that Obama inherited the problems he has because he continually blames the republicans for them. "The result of eight years fo failed policy...They drove the car into the ditch and now they want the keys..." He never mentions the darlings of the housing collapse, for instance, those who were overseeing Fannie and Freddie and all of the federal regulators. I think if he had accepted at least some of the blame on behalf of the members of his party, reasonable people on the right would be more willing to say he is not to blame for unemployment, etc.

On illegal immigration...how about if we just stop the benefits? education and health care.

I agree that this election about stopping the democrats.

As for sending Clintonian signals. Clinton has proven it is possible to simultaneously attend the rally of a democrat candidate and negotiate for his demise. That's talent!

Mickey stipulates that Obama's problem is not that he's black, but that he's green. Bob just can't give up the meme that the right criticizes Obama because he is black. Bob bases his opinion about the right on a study he did which included one guy who lives a mile from his house.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:37 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
...For the record, those who are on the right don't buy that Obama inherited the problems he has because he continually blames the republicans for them...
The economy collapsed in 2007. Job losses continued until mid/late 2009. Bush was president, and there had been Democrats running Congress for a year and a half (out of the prior thirteen years), when that collapse occurred. It took Obama a mere nine months to stop the bleeding in regard to jobs.

So what's the argument that Obama didn't inherit the problems, again? I'm just not so clear on that claim.

It's a neat trick, though - running things into the toilet, and then blaming the people stuck cleaning up after you for not getting the job done fast enough.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:08 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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The economy collapsed in 2007. Job losses continued until mid/late 2009. Bush was president, and there had been Democrats running Congress for a year and a half (out of the prior thirteen years), when that collapse occurred. It took Obama a mere nine months to stop the bleeding in regard to jobs.

So what's the argument that Obama didn't inherit the problems, again? I'm just not so clear on that claim.

It's a neat trick, though - running things into the toilet, and then blaming the people stuck cleaning up after you for not getting the job done fast enough.
I didn't say he didn't inherit problems it's that he never fails to blame only the republicans, which is inaccurate. Further, I can see that you are not clear on that claim and never will be for that matter. Further still, it's nice that you added variety with the toilet metaphor. I was getting sick of the car in the ditch.
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2010, 11:18 AM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I didn't say he didn't inherit problems it's that he never fails to blame only the republicans, which is inaccurate. Further, I can see that you are not clear on that claim and never will be for that matter. Further still, it's nice that you added variety with the toilet metaphor. I was getting sick of the car in the ditch.
Blame only the Republicans? This is politics, and they were in charge. Look at the difference between 2001 (during the handoff from Clinton to Bush) and 2009 (Bush to Obama.) What happened in the meantime? The better part of a trillion spent on a strategically idiotic war. Enormous tax cuts ballooning the deficit further. The federal regulatory apparatus corrupted. The banking system allowed to run without adult supervision. And then the financial collapse.

Who ya gonna blame?
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:04 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
The economy collapsed in 2007. Job losses continued until mid/late 2009. Bush was president, and there had been Democrats running Congress for a year and a half (out of the prior thirteen years), when that collapse occurred. It took Obama a mere nine months to stop the bleeding in regard to jobs.

So what's the argument that Obama didn't inherit the problems, again? I'm just not so clear on that claim.

It's a neat trick, though - running things into the toilet, and then blaming the people stuck cleaning up after you for not getting the job done fast enough.
I don't think anyone is blaming Obama for the economic collapse. Even those nasty tea partiers. No one is blaming him that the car is in the ditch, they just think he doesn't know how to get it out and is making the situation worse.

Its like he can't figure out what to do, so he just keeps saying "Hey, I didn't put the car in the ditch". If there were ANYONE who was actually blaming him for the car being in the ditch, it might make sense to keep telling the story. However, since everyone knows he didn't do it and only expects him to get it out rather then make it worse, every time he says "But I didn't put it in that ditch" he just sounds like a whiner.

I think he seems incompetent, because he not only whines about how hard and unfair his job (he asked for) is, but he focused all of last year putting incredible effort into passing a health care plan most people don't understand or want, while the car languished in the ditch.

Now, having said that, I have to say that, while I disagree strongly with the health care debacle, I personally think he's done as well as any president could be expected to do regarding the economy. The TARP thing, which Bush initiated and Obama followed through on, worked out great. The government is actually making money on that. The GM bailout was a good move. I'd probably lean toward believing the stimulus didn't do much, but I understand he had to do something, politically speaking; democrats would be getting killed even worse tomorrow if he had done absolutely nothing and unemployment was as high as it is.

I think Presidents get too much blame and credit for the economy. They don't have nearly the control that most people think they do. Obama's advisors should have told him that one president can never make himself look better by pointing out how big of a screw up his predecessor was. Bad strategy.

Last edited by whburgess; 11-01-2010 at 01:10 PM..
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2010, 02:49 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
I don't think anyone is blaming Obama for the economic collapse. Even those nasty tea partiers. No one is blaming him that the car is in the ditch, they just think he doesn't know how to get it out and is making the situation worse.

Its like he can't figure out what to do, so he just keeps saying "Hey, I didn't put the car in the ditch". If there were ANYONE who was actually blaming him for the car being in the ditch, it might make sense to keep telling the story. However, since everyone knows he didn't do it and only expects him to get it out rather then make it worse, every time he says "But I didn't put it in that ditch" he just sounds like a whiner.

I think he seems incompetent, because he not only whines about how hard and unfair his job (he asked for) is, but he focused all of last year putting incredible effort into passing a health care plan most people don't understand or want, while the car languished in the ditch.

Now, having said that, I have to say that, while I disagree strongly with the health care debacle, I personally think he's done as well as any president could be expected to do regarding the economy. The TARP thing, which Bush initiated and Obama followed through on, worked out great. The government is actually making money on that. The GM bailout was a good move. I'd probably lean toward believing the stimulus didn't do much, but I understand he had to do something, politically speaking; democrats would be getting killed even worse tomorrow if he had done absolutely nothing and unemployment was as high as it is.

I think Presidents get too much blame and credit for the economy. They don't have nearly the control that most people think they do. Obama's advisors should have told him that one president can never make himself look better by pointing out how big of a screw up his predecessor was. Bad strategy.
I hear a lot people asserting that Obama is incompetent. What I don't see is much support for those assertions. I've seen some political screw-ups - but that's no distinction from any previous administration. On the policy front, there is no evidence at all.

It's certainly true that Presidents get too much blame and too much credtit for the state of the economy at a given time. But it's also true that the policies of a single party (for the most part) had been dominant for a long time at the inception of the current economic collapse. It's definitely fair to point directly to Republican policy makers in this context. And it's certainly true that Obama is being directly blamed for the state of the economy

John Boehner:
Quote:
Where are the jobs? It's the question Americans are still asking more than 20 months after President Obama signed the "stimulus" amid promises it would create jobs "immediately" and keep unemployment below 8%. Instead, millions more have lost their jobs, and unemployment has topped 9.5% for 14 months in a row, the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.
That's quite an argument, considering Boehner's prominent position in the policy team that presided over the collapse that killed those jobs.

Boehner goes on:
Quote:
Now, after adding more than $3 trillion to our national debt often in the name of job creation that has failed to materialize, President Obama and Democrats in Washington want to raise taxes on families and small businesses. Between burdensome mandates, permanent bailouts and government takeovers, hasn't Washington already done enough to make it harder for employers and entrepreneurs to create jobs?
This sort of dishonesty is exactly what I'm talking about. Both parties signed onto TARP, which was a substantial part of that $3T. And the "failed" job creation? The jobs were still bleeding away when the Democrats took the White house. The data clearly shows that the rate of job losses changed substantially under Obama. The closest approach to truth in Boehner's assertions is that Obama didn't accurately predict the numerical end resukt of his policies. It's perfectly clear that the change in the slope of the rate of job loss is exactly correlated with Democratic policies.

(source)


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  #31  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:10 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I hear a lot people asserting that Obama is incompetent. What I don't see is much support for those assertions. I've seen some political screw-ups - but that's no distinction from any previous administration. On the policy front, there is no evidence at all.
I agree with this. Thats why I said he 'seems incompetent' to a lot of people, rather then asserting that as my personal view. Being POTUS is an incredibly difficult job. I don't why anyone would want to do it. So I'm sure that there are plenty of mistakes anyone could point out that he's done--but relative to other presidents...I wouldn't call him incompetent. I disagree with a lot of his policies--but thats not the same as incompetence.
Quote:

It's certainly true that Presidents get too much blame and too much credtit for the state of the economy at a given time. But it's also true that the policies of a single party (for the most part) had been dominant for a long time at the inception of the current economic collapse.
debatable--the policies that caused the financial crises have been in place for a few decades. both parties are to blame.

Quote:
It's definitely fair to point directly to Republican policy makers in this context. And it's certainly true that Obama is being directly blamed for the state of the economy

John Boehner:


That's quite an argument, considering Boehner's prominent position in the policy team that presided over the collapse that killed those jobs.




This sort of dishonesty is exactly what I'm talking about. Both parties signed onto TARP, which was a substantial part of that $3T. And the "failed" job creation? The jobs were still bleeding away when the Democrats took the White house.
The debt Boehner is blaming Obama for is the stimulus bill. TARP is paying for itself and then some---thats not what Boehner is talking about.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:11 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
The debt Boehner is blaming Obama for is the stimulus bill. TARP is paying for itself and then some---thats not what Boehner is talking about.
If he is bandying about the number $3 trillion, he is at minimum trying to have it both ways.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Exactly. The dirty little secret of Republican rhetoric is that the Democrats are far more fiscally responsible than they are, and that the budget deficit is almost entirely not Obama's fault.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:49 PM
piscivorous piscivorous is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Really! Which states are furthest along the road towards bankruptcy and which party is in control in those states? Last time I looked of the top 15 debtor states the Dems controlled 13 of them. Fiscal responsibility may backside!
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2010, 01:00 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Really! Which states are furthest along the road towards bankruptcy and which party is in control in those states? Last time I looked of the top 15 debtor states the Dems controlled 13 of them. Fiscal responsibility may backside!
Being in the majority does not equate to being in control in all cases. For example, in California, it takes a 2/3 supermajority to pass a budget and most tax increases. Thus, the Republicans, though clearly in the minority because the majority of the citizens of that state do not want them in charge, have been in effective control, in a negative sense, and have in that way contributed greatly to that state's fiscal problems.

I don't know about the others you have in mind, but I strongly suspect there are other cases where it is not as easy as saying "Dems in charge, therefore it's all the Dems fault."

Additionally, when we have national economic problems, there is a limit to what states can do, especially when a Republican minority at the national level (Congress) is trying its level best to impede what the national-level Dems would like to do, to help. Remember when Republican Party boss Rush Limbaugh said "I hope he fails" about nine seconds after President Obama was inaugurated? Those words have been the de facto marching orders for the Party of No since then.

And before that? Two terms of a Republican President, including six years with Republican control of the Congress, who turned a budget surplus into record deficits, put a couple of wars on the nation's credit card, and supported cronyism to an appalling degree. It's an exaggeration to say Bush crashed the economy, but not much of one, especially if you take Bush as the culmination of Republican fiscal policy views that have dominated that party since at least the presidency of Ronald Reagan.

You should read "How Obama Saved Capitalism and Lost The Midterms" for more on the national level aspects of this.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:17 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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I agree with this. Thats why I said he 'seems incompetent' to a lot of people, rather then asserting that as my personal view. Being POTUS is an incredibly difficult job. I don't why anyone would want to do it. So I'm sure that there are plenty of mistakes anyone could point out that he's done--but relative to other presidents...I wouldn't call him incompetent. I disagree with a lot of his policies--but thats not the same as incompetence.

debatable--the policies that caused the financial crises have been in place for a few decades. both parties are to blame.


The debt Boehner is blaming Obama for is the stimulus bill. TARP is paying for itself and then some---thats not what Boehner is talking about.
He used the $3T figure. You don't get there without adding in TARP.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:22 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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He used the $3T figure. You don't get there without adding in TARP.
A politician is fudging for political gain. I'm shocked! Shocked!

He's only playing into an impression thats already there---not creating anything new.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:31 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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A politician is fudging for political gain. I'm shocked! Shocked!

He's only playing into an impression thats already there---not creating anything new.
But the point is that your factual claim was false.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:55 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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But the point is that your factual claim was false.
Point taken
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2010, 04:02 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Quinquennial Edition (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Point taken
I'm not trying to be a jerk. We're having an argument over the facts, and how to interpret events and political rhetoric. If we can't agree about the significance of what we're talking about, then what are we doing here?
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