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  #1  
Old 04-25-2011, 12:50 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

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  #2  
Old 04-25-2011, 03:15 PM
chamblee54 chamblee54 is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

It's a lot cheaper too.

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  #3  
Old 04-25-2011, 05:15 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

regarding ritalin and other concentration agents, I can see that the urban dwellers are pumping out a lot of content, making a lot of money. But I see very few in the public sphere asking challenging questions, advancing innovative solutions. ( Everyone is punting on the GWOT, now Libya, immigration, the economy, the budget deficit and the crap on TV. ) Possibly these brain pills increase the tendency of people to conform.
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2011, 06:58 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default more dead in Afg

at what point does the establishment change its policy in Afg? Actually, I don't think that is even the question. At what point do they get the guts to address the subject?

Someone named Michele Flournoy, a WH administration policy maker, was on Charlie Rose saying it was vital the US stay involved in Pakistan.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11633
admittedly I did not watch the entire interview, but Rose never pressed Flournoy on what is to be accomplished in Pak/Afg and at what cost.

If the troops are being withdraw come July so Obama can avoid a democrat primary challenger, what is it that all of these people have been dying for?


The following Marines died April 23 while conducting combat operations in Helmand province, Afghanistan:

Sgt. Sean T. Callahan, 23, of Warrenton, Va.

Lance Cpl. Dominic J. Ciaramitaro, 19, of South Lyon, Mich.

Sgt. 1st Class Benjamin F. Bitner, 37, of Greencastle, Pa., died April 23 in Kandahar province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when insurgents attacked his unit using an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.

Chief Warrant Officer, Terry L. Varnadore II, 29, of Hendersonville, N.C. died April 23 in Kapisa province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when his helicopter went down due to an undetermined cause. This accident is under investigation. He was assigned to the 1st Attack Reconnaissance Battalion, 10th Combat Aviation Brigade, 10th Mountain Division, Fort Drum, N.Y.

but there are still plenty of recruits:
Recruiting - Year to Date. All four active services met or exceeded their numerical accession goals for fiscal-year-to-date 2011, through March.
Army – 34,264 accessions, with a goal of 33,600; 102 percent
Navy – 16,011 accessions, with a goal of 16,011; 100 percent
Marine Corps – 11,497 accessions, with a goal of 11,468; 100 percent
Air Force – 14,279 accessions, with a goal of 14,279; 100 percent
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2011, 06:59 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
regarding ritalin and other concentration agents, I can see that the urban dwellers are pumping out a lot of content, making a lot of money. But I see very few in the public sphere asking challenging questions, advancing innovative solutions. ( Everyone is punting on the GWOT, now Libya, immigration, the economy, the budget deficit and the crap on TV. ) Possibly these brain pills increase the tendency of people to conform.
What do you think of fluoride in the water?
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2011, 07:20 PM
Mari Dupont Mari Dupont is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

Re Bankers vs. Paralegals: Unless you have an awful boss, being a paralegal is a relatively low-stress job with comparatively little responsibility. If a paralegal screws up, he may get fired, but the lawyer who hired him will ultimately pay a much higher-- and very public-- price. It's a decent paying, dead-end job with little glory that attracts people who want a quiet but secure life. Not type A personalities.

Finance has a lot more drama and a lot more stress; you work crazy hours, the burnout rate is high; thus a lot of $$$ incentive is needed to keep people motivated.

If you placed your average paralegal--no matter how smart--in one of these positions, they'd last about 5 minutes.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2011, 07:38 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
What do you think of fluoride in the water?
why do you think the establishment is so critical of people who ask to see a simple birth certificate?
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2011, 07:49 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
why do you think the establishment is so critical of people who ask to see a simple birth certificate?
Quote:
(Pro Tip: by now, if you're still in any way a "birther," you're not complex. You just believe some really stupid stuff and should lay off the short-wave radio for a spell.)
http://www.boston.com/sports/columni...war_games.html

Last edited by graz; 04-27-2011 at 02:23 PM..
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:01 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
I don't understand.
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:04 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
why do you think the establishment is so critical of people who ask to see a simple birth certificate?
Because they were shown the birth certificate, and all they did was declare that it wasn't a birth certificate and demand that he produce something else.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:06 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Are you saying they only want to mock people? I don't think all the establishment is like that. But then they are seemingly universally indifferent to death and suffering being inflicted on our soldiers in Afg. Also the "collateral damage" the US bombings in Libya are causing.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:12 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
Because they were shown the birth certificate, and all they did was declare that it wasn't a birth certificate and demand that he produce something else.
people just want to see the original. There is more info on the original than the summary that has been released. This goes around and around in circles. Why is the establishment so willing to deny people basic info and facts?
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:35 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
people just want to see the original. There is more info on the original than the summary that has been released. This goes around and around in circles. Why is the establishment so willing to deny people basic info and facts?
"The original" doesn't exist. Hawaiian birth records are digital. And when you request a birth certificate from the state, you get the document Obama has produced.

You know all this, Steve. And you also know that if Obama provided you with additional information, it would do nothing to sate GOP demands.

The other day you said that you think white people, in order to protect their historic position of privilege, should shun non-white people and make them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, in hopes that doing so will cause them leave the country. Is this what you are hoping the Republican Party can accomplish by questioning Obama's citizenship?
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:45 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
I don't understand.
shocking
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:45 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

Quote:
If the troops are being withdraw come July so Obama can avoid a democrat primary challenger, what is it that all of these people have been dying for?
I don't think that's the case. Setting aside your paranoid delusions about a nefarious alien presidency, it's unlikely that a Dem. primary challenger would get much traction even if Obama stays put in Af-Pak till 2016.

Opposition to the Libya, Iraq and Af-Pak wars from the Dem. base is weak because everyone knows how much more hawkish the Repubs. are (Ron Paul types excepted).

If the Tea Party were serious about deficit reduction and meant by that ending wars and useless military spending rather than just sticking it to the elderly, disabled and the teachers, then you'd get a lot more support from the peace and human rights community.

I think Ron Paul is by far preferable to Barack Obama on foreign affairs, but Barack Obama is still by far preferable to 99% of the Republican establishment.

You Repubs. are missing an important historical opportunity to get real.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2011, 09:14 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

If you don't want me to think Gary Johnson is a kook, don't provide a link that confirms that he's a kook. "(Nullification) is a formula for righting all of our wrongs."

Tell me why I shouldn't just vote for Denville Steve, if I'm headed off of this wingnut cliff...

Gary Johnson is a great guest for Bill Maher. That's about where it begins and ends with this guy. His views on child labor weren't the main point of that post, incidentally. Supporting a totally loonytoons view of states' rights to nullification of any federal law they don't like was the key to understanding what a marginal character Johnson happens to be. I thought Conor Friedersdorf was smarter than this. Too bad.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2011, 11:16 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
Someone named Michele Flournoy, a WH administration policy maker, was on Charlie Rose saying it was vital the US stay involved in Pakistan.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11633
admittedly I did not watch the entire interview, but Rose never pressed Flournoy on what is to be accomplished in Pak/Afg and at what cost.
We are all so fucking confused. We need a leader and talking heads should be banned from the airwaves.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:29 AM
Otto Kerner Otto Kerner is offline
 
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Default kookiness

I think Ron Paul makes a lot of sense on most of the issues he talks about. On the other hand, I agree with Conor Friedersdorf that mainstream Republicans like Romney or Pawlenty often don't make any sense when they talk about the issues. Now, other people will agree or disagree with either or both of those points. But Noah Millman wants to avoid discussing the specifics by going straight to "kooky". Oh, for sure, why bother listening at all to someone who is kooky?
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2011, 04:08 AM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
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Default Guaranteed minimum income

This brief mention was interesting to me because of an old interview I heard with Murray talking about some form of the idea.

http://www.amazon.com/Our-Hands-Repl.../dp/0844742236



I have no idea if this idea has any merit and would be effective, but it was very interesting. Instead of the current system, he proposed simply giving EVERYONE older than about 18 around 10,000 dollars a year. About 3,000 of that would have to be reserved for a health care account to be spent solely on healthcare.

The idea there being if the money is set aside and forced to be put toward healthcare, the increased numbers of young people on health care would subsidize the old.


In a way, this IS a government mandate for healthcare for all people above the age of 18, it funnels money into young peoples hands for healthcare when most consume very little, and when they do they will have paid enough collectively into the system to make it solvent with the money given on average.


Credible? who knows, but an interesting idea.


The rest would be straight cash payments like social security, except for everyone above 18. This would have to be tied to elimination of all other welfare payments and subsidies. All people are supposed to get the benefit, but wealthier people would get only half after a certain income level.


would this kind of straight cash payment system to people at every income level be superior to the current systems?

No idea, but an interesting idea. It would be the mother of all redistribution efforts.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2011, 07:56 AM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
"The original" doesn't exist. Hawaiian birth records are digital. And when you request a birth certificate from the state, you get the document Obama has produced.
there are statements from government officials saying they have seen the LFBC. Then there were reports 3 months ago that Gov. Abercrombie had searched high and low and could not find it.

People just want to be told the truth. They have a right to see the evidence. Obama is undermining people's faith in government and the establishment. Look how little we are being told regarding foreign policy of the US and its discussions with foreign powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
The other day you said that you think white people, in order to protect their historic position of privilege, should shun non-white people and make them feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, in hopes that doing so will cause them leave the country. Is this what you are hoping the Republican Party can accomplish by questioning Obama's citizenship?
I never express politics in terms of white and non white. It makes no sense and I think reflects the liberal's distorted view of the world. ( Look how they isolate themselves in college towns and urban enclaves. ) Now I do think the country is going to break apart. This recent decision by the Obama people in the NLRB to deny those living in South Carolina the opportunity to build Boeing airplanes because of a labor dispute in a democrat state is a step in the direction of secession.
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:15 AM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
I don't think that's the case. Setting aside your paranoid delusions about a nefarious alien presidency, it's unlikely that a Dem. primary challenger would get much traction even if Obama stays put in Af-Pak till 2016.
I am guessing on Obama's thinking because Obama only talks to the establishment and the establishment never asks him about Afg/Pak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Opposition to the Libya, Iraq and Af-Pak wars from the Dem. base is weak because everyone knows how much more hawkish the Repubs. are (Ron Paul types excepted).
I know republicans are a foreign people to democrats. Let me assure you they are not all powerful and monolithic. Granted their inclination is to blow things up and otherwise help people throw off their shackles. But democrats have to concede the facts. Bush/Cheney had a more low key approach to Afg than Obama. It was the Clinton admin who bombed the Serbs. And it was much less likely Bush/Cheney would have intervened in Libya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
If the Tea Party were serious about deficit reduction and meant by that ending wars and useless military spending rather than just sticking it to the elderly, disabled and the teachers, then you'd get a lot more support from the peace and human rights community.
By the same token, if the democrats are so concerned about the economic well being of the working class they should support tariffs on chinese imports, call for a lot less immigration and open up the opportunity for goverment jobs to those in the private sector.
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:44 AM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

The republican candidates for president continue to be uninspiring. Do any of them have the fire-in-the-belly resolve to run? Are any of them adept at fund raising? Can they lay out a vision that will capture the hearts and minds of 50.1% of the electorate? The answers to these three questions are no, no, and no.

I'm sure there are more questions that could be raised for potential high office holders but these 3 are off the top of my head. How about no one running for president under the republican banner and giving third party candidates a chance? If the field remains to be this farcical I'd be for it.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:55 AM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

Dems being concerned about the working class? I think they are but for a variety of reasons are unable to do much about their plight. There have been several books in recent years that highlight these problems. The list of authors are endless but I'll name a few: Kevin Phillips, Clyde Prestowitz, and Robert Reich. Any one of these authors will more than acquaint one with the rich/poor gap, weakening of the middle class, the failure of a post industrial society to create meaningful employment for it's citizens, and the like.

Last edited by bkjazfan; 04-26-2011 at 09:10 AM..
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2011, 10:55 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjazfan View Post
I'm sure there are more questions that could be raised for potential high office holders but these 3 are off the top of my head. How about no one running for president under the republican banner and giving third party candidates a chance? If the field remains to be this farcical I'd be for it.
It looks like Ron Paul may be in. He'll surely have a lot of interesting things to say.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2011, 11:36 AM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
It looks like Ron Paul may be in. He'll surely have a lot of interesting things to say.
I think Paul has had his chance to make his case. Libertarians have never made a good case for how they would govern. I think working class people are too medicated as it is. Legalizing drugs would hurt them a great deal. And the one time I remember hearing Paul question the federal reserve chairman at a congressional hearing, his questions sounded lame to me.

I assume libertarians want open borders and no trade tariffs.
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  #26  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:06 PM
Peter Twieg Peter Twieg is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

The words that Conor was missing in the discussion over whether roads constitute middle-class redistribution were "public goods" and "market failure." The rule of "don't redistribute to the middle-class" obviously isn't meant to be an exhaustive principle upon which all government should be constructed, and usually people will concede that redistribution is okay if it's the byproduct of providing a public good.

Now, of course, this opens the door for people to make disingenuous arguments about how their pet redistributive programs really solve a market failure / create a public good, but some of these arguments are more transparently ad hoc than others. For example, people largely agree that military protection and roads constitute important public goods, but things like agricultural subsidies and mortgage-interest deductions... yeah, the evidence tends to weigh against those.
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  #27  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:09 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: kookiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Kerner View Post
I think Ron Paul makes a lot of sense on most of the issues he talks about.
I think Ron Paul is a kook who is most often in the news for talking about the things (foreign policy) on which he seems least kooky to me. Oddly enough, it's this particular aspect of his views that means that he's definitely not getting the Republican nomination, not the kooky stuff. (I also think that opposing the drug war is a good thing, but am not convinced that Paul's particular approach to that, if based too much on libertarian ideology, is one I would agree with. But I'd have to explore what Paul's said about that before having a sense of how much I would agree or disagree with him.)

Quote:
On the other hand, I agree with Conor Friedersdorf that mainstream Republicans like Romney or Pawlenty often don't make any sense when they talk about the issues.
True, though there's a difference between seeming like a kook (which I think certain mainstream Republican candidates sometimes do too, as demonstrated by the '08 primaries and Pawlenty's recent efforts to appeal to the base) and saying things that don't make sense (which almost all candidates do sometimes, and for me is inherent in some of the Republican talking points).

Quote:
But Noah Millman wants to avoid discussing the specifics by going straight to "kooky". Oh, for sure, why bother listening at all to someone who is kooky?
I don't think this is what Noah was doing. I think he was addressing why certain candidates aren't taken as seriously as Conor thinks they should be. For Paul, the kook factor is certainly part of it, and, yes, being overly consistent with one's libertarian beliefs to the point of child labor laws being problematic would be another. But then I think (and think the country as a whole thinks) that libertarianism, taken seriously, is kooky, and it is directly related to outcomes such as being against child labor laws. Presumably, as a sort of libertarian, Conor is less likely to agree about this. But a real libertarian won't win a Republican primary, however much certain types of libertarian-sounding rhetoric might be useful to Republican candidates.
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  #28  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:29 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

I think Noah may have broken the illustrious "how many times can one person inappropriately say the word right during a diavlog" record. Mark Schmitt, Megan McCardle, and Ross Douthat had all been tussling for the top spot for a while, and then all of the sudden Millman comes out of nowhere and blows them all out of the water!
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  #29  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:18 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
I think Paul has had his chance to make his case. Libertarians have never made a good case for how they would govern. I think working class people are too medicated as it is. Legalizing drugs would hurt them a great deal. And the one time I remember hearing Paul question the federal reserve chairman at a congressional hearing, his questions sounded lame to me.

I assume libertarians want open borders and no trade tariffs.
Always looking for the silver lining, I would say that Ron Paul will stir things up and get issues on the table that more traditional candidates would like to ignore.

For instance when Romney was asked about whether the congress should be involved in the decision to invade Iran.
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  #30  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:31 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniels

Woops, this was the link I meant to provide (scroll down)on the wisdom of Daniel's handling of IN's economy:

Quote:
And look, it would be nice if at some point someone--Democrat, or sane person--gets to point out that Daniels hasn't balanced Indiana's budget, which is $2 billion in the hole to the Feds, and only $2 billion thanks to the $1.67 billion in Federal stimulus money which "balanced" the books in 2009 and 2010. The same stimulus Mitch Daniels has been criticizing. While asking for more.

Yes, let's return to a country-mile's distance from 2001. And for god's sakes let's keep the goddam economy out of the hands of Mitch Daniels; it ain't like we don't know better by now.
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  #31  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:45 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
What do you think of fluoride in the water?
Heh.

With regard to the diavlog, though, I think it was Noah who was downplaying the significance (I was listening only), and if so I'm with him.

In any case, the claim (by Conor?) that lawfirms and consulting firms are encouraging employees to take ritalin seems to me untrue. I don't know about consulting firms, really, but I was an associate at a large Chicago firm (not NYC, granted, but I have friends from law school there), and there was no expectation at all that people take drugs for performance (other than caffeine, of course), let alone ritalin. There was expectation that one work lots and lots of hours when the job called for it, of course, and definite association of working a lot with merit, but it would have been, if anything, looked down on to admit that you relied on a drug for performance.

While I suppose this might have changed in the last 5 years or so, I rather doubt it, as the impression that I recall up through the crash was that associates were less willing to work than before and more entitled and so on, which may well be an "in my day" thing, even from those immediately above them, but I'd really question any claim that hours had gone up or expectations in general during that period (the period in which more young lawyers were likely to have been prescribed ritalin and the like in school).
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  #32  
Old 04-26-2011, 01:59 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: The Aorta of Darkness (Conor Friedersdorf & Noah Millman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjazfan View Post
The republican candidates for president continue to be uninspiring.
Depends on what you are looking for, I suppose. Some seem to find certain of them inspiring.[/quote]

Quote:
Do any of them have the fire-in-the-belly resolve to run?
A number of them, I expect. I think Pawlenty and Romney meet this requirement, for example, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to think of others.

Quote:
Are any of them adept at fund raising?
Again, I think several of them (including the two above) would be fine at this aspect.

Quote:
Can they lay out a vision that will capture the hearts and minds of 50.1% of the electorate?
This is the bigger question (and I'm not especially convinced by either of my two boring choices, nor any of the kooks, nor any of the undecided candidates various folks are putting their hopes in). It seems to me you problem here is that there's a huge disparity in what will capture the hearts and minds of the various important subgroups (independents vs. establishment Republicans vs. the Tea Party (which may well be the usual base). However, it frequently seems like this will be a problem and it's usually not, so I'm not convinced that they won't come up with someone who can capture the hearts and minds of at least 49% of the electorate.

I don't see the third party option as all that appealling -- wouldn't it just be taking to a more official level the split that's currently the problem within the Republicans? I mean, who are your third party candidates likely to be? Paul or Bachmann or Trump?
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  #33  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:01 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

Quote:
Bush/Cheney had a more low key approach to Afg than Obama. It was the Clinton admin who bombed the Serbs. And it was much less likely Bush/Cheney would have intervened in Libya.
That's between misleading and false. Bush was only more low key in AfPaq because he started a worse and stupider war in Iraq that got him distracted. If Cheney and his fellow neo-cons had their way, we'd have gone to war with Syria and Iran to boot.

As to the idea that Bush wouldn't have intervened in Libya, you need only look at the worst Libyan hawk in government right now -- your 2008 presidential candidate Bomb-bomb-bomb Iran/ We-are-all-Georgians-Now McCain.
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  #34  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:02 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniels

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
Woops, this was the link I meant to provide (scroll down)on the wisdom of Daniel's handling of IN's economy:

"...Indiana's budget, which is $2 billion in the hole to the Feds, and only $2 billion thanks to the $1.67 billion in Federal stimulus money which "balanced" the books in 2009 and 2010. The same stimulus Mitch Daniels has been criticizing. While asking for more. ..."
to be fair, the midwest states don't have the national and international based businesses headquartered in their part of the country. Governments require a lot of rich people within their jurisdiction to raise the taxes needed to meet the needs of the population. Midwest states don't have enough rich people. The elite colleges in the country get huge amounts of money from the feds in the form of student loans that enable students to pay their very high tuitions. The feds give the big banks another large pile of money every year. Those banks are in a few states, there are numerous millionaires in their orbit, all paying taxes in those states. Look how the feds are now pressuring Boeing, an international business, to not build the dreamliner assembly plant in South Carolina.
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  #35  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:40 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
to be fair, the midwest states don't have the national and international based businesses headquartered in their part of the country.
Hmm. Funny, I can think of some.

Aren't you from NJ?
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  #36  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:49 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Maybe the brain pills damper creativity

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Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
I never express politics in terms of white and non white. It makes no sense and I think reflects the liberal's distorted view of the world. ( Look how they isolate themselves in college towns and urban enclaves. ) Now I do think the country is going to break apart. This recent decision by the Obama people in the NLRB to deny those living in South Carolina the opportunity to build Boeing airplanes because of a labor dispute in a democrat state is a step in the direction of secession.
Yea, he expresses politics in terms of "natives" and everyone else, so since I assume he is in CA, then he's probably Hopi?.

Washington ain't exactly a Dem state, skinheadsteve. But the idea of "hiding" in a large city... you da man!
In OR, we have two "college towns", one is fairly left leaning the other leans to the right, but we don't have a secessionist one yet.
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  #37  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:52 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
Hmm. Funny, I can think of some.

Aren't you from NJ?
I am a computer programmer in Northern NJ. Most of the programmer jobs are in NYC.
http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/ser...er&WHERE=07834
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  #38  
Old 04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
Look how the feds are now pressuring Boeing, an international business, to not build the dreamliner assembly plant in South Carolina.
Why, it's as if those who run Boeing don't want the people who do the actual work in those plants have a voice in the company.
Damn government, sticking up for the commie workers and their stinking legal contracts!
You get 'em skinheadsteve!
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  #39  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:06 PM
DenvilleSteve DenvilleSteve is offline
 
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Default Re: more dead in Afg

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That's between misleading and false. Bush was only more low key in AfPaq because he started a worse and stupider war in Iraq that got him distracted.
Mission was accomplished in Iraq long before the end of Bush's term. If he thought a surge would have worked in Afg you would think it would have been started by B/C.

And, you don't show any integrity by faulting the Iraq war w/o acknowledging the advantageous affect the Saddam takedown had on the Iran nuclear weapons program. And consider what stage the developing Sunni/Shia civil war would be at with the minority Sunnis still dominating the majority Shia in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
As to the idea that Bush wouldn't have intervened in Libya, you need only look at the worst Libyan hawk in government right now -- your 2008 presidential candidate Bomb-bomb-bomb Iran/ We-are-all-Georgians-Now McCain.
McCain, Graham are wrong. I don't think it is a coincidence that those two have little support from the tea party.

But again. It is democrats who are pressing this war in Afg. Our people are being killed. What is it that they expect to accomplish? How can they be so seemingly indifferent to the cost in human life?

Sgt. David P. Day, 26, of Gaylord, Mich., died April 24 while conducting combat operations in Badghis province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to 2nd Marine Special Operations Battalion, Marine Special Operations Regiment, U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Capt. Joshua M. McClimans, 30, of Akron, Ohio, died April 22 at Forward Operating Base Salerno, Khost province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when insurgents attacked his unit with indirect fire. He was assigned to the 848th Forward Surgical Team, U.S. Army Reserve, Twinsburg, Ohio.

Last edited by DenvilleSteve; 04-26-2011 at 03:24 PM..
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  #40  
Old 04-26-2011, 04:29 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Daniels

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Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
I am a computer programmer in Northern NJ.
I expect that explains your great insight into the American midwest.
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