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Old 01-14-2011, 01:26 PM
Mannish Boy Mannish Boy is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 73
Default Re: Islam, Terrorism, and Justin Bieber (Matt Duss & Daveed Gartenstein-Ross)

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
I am not arguing that the atomic bomb was not the decisive factor. I am saying you don't know.
Of course I don't know, it's history. History can't prove anything. We can't prove that Alexander was a Macedonian Greek, but all the evidence we have leads us to believe that he was.

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Your arguments are not conclusive. Japanese cities had been incinerated already (more than 70 of them) and the atomic bomb didn't change the basic math.
The atomic bomb can't be compared to the earlier strategic bombing of Japan. The most sustained air attack on Japanese cities was the firebombing of Tokyo in '45, that killed around 100 thousand in a city of 3.5 million. The atomic bombing killed more than 80 thousand in a city of 350 thousand. So a single bomb was 10 times more deadly than the thousands that were dropped on Tokyo. This is without mentioning the deaths due to injuries and radiation sickness. It's clear that the bombing was unprecedented, which was the view of the Japanese government.

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
You imply that if the emperor said something it had to be true. That's naive. The emperor had good reasons to appeal to the bombing of cities rather than the Soviet landing in the Kurils.
Which were?

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
There are simply too many unknowns for you to draw such an inference. You also say that surrender happened only because of the atomic bomb: but that's not an argument, that's a conclusion.
Of course it's a conclusion. I've already explained my arguments to support that conclusion.

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
I agree but that doesn't respond to my argument that, with hindsight, we now know dropping the bomb would be a moral stain on the US and would taint its victory. I am not arguing whether Truman entertained the idea.
I wasn't arguing whether Truman entertained the idea or not. I just don't think the moral stain is very important or even there for most people.

Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
(i) Japan was already defeated, (ii) Japan by then didn't care that much about the Pacific, and (iii) Japan cared greatly about Soviet ambitions on its territory.
(i) It wasn't or else it would have already surrendered
(ii) I don't know what this means
(iii) Sure, but they cared less about Soviets in Manchuria than Americans killing millions of Japanese on the Home Islands
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