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Old 01-13-2011, 02:32 PM
Mannish Boy Mannish Boy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 73
Default Re: Islam, Terrorism, and Justin Bieber (Matt Duss & Daveed Gartenstein-Ross)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
That doesn't prove anything. By your same logic, I could argue that it's the last incendiary bombing of Tokyo the day before the surrender (and 5 days after Nagasaki) that did the trick. Look, the Japanese had suffered carpet bombings killing more of their citizens than H&N combined, so why another bombing would clinch it is open to question.
The atomic bomb was a completely development for the Japanese. A single bomber carrying a single bomb had just killed tens of thousands of people, which was unprecedented. They didn't know how many bombs the Americans had, and to them it seemed quite possible that Japan could be incinerated within weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
On the other hand, Soviet landing on Shikotan and the collapse of Manchuria were entirely new developments for the Japanese. The thing is, no one knows for sure, so for you to claim that H&N saved countless lives is simply groundless.
Not entirely new developments, because Japan had been suffering defeat after defeat against the Americans for the past 3 years.

If it was the Soviet invasion of Manchuria that shocked the Japanese into surrender, why did the Emperor not mention it in his radio broadcast to the Japanese people? Why did he instead say: "the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives", and why did he tell the Foreign Minister Togo that they could no longer continue the war "now that a weapon of this devastating power was used against us"? I don't think the Soviet invasion across the ocean had nearly as much impact on the destruction of cities right on the Home Island.

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Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
Of course, the argument that a land invasion would be far worse because the Japanese would never surrender (like the Germans) is BS, since we know that surrendering was indeed a possibility (because in fact it happened).
...it happened because of the atomic bomb, is what I'm saying. Surrender was a possibility, but only one which would allow the Japanese leadership to remain in place, similar to German peace feelers that Himmler sent through Sweden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
You also seem to forget that H&N earned the US the opprobrium of the world as the only country on earth to have dropped the big one. The fact that the diavloggers mention Hiroshima but not Tokyo (which was just as bad) is telling about that residual feeling of guilt and of tainted victory.
Not in 1945, because the world saw the Japanese (rightly or wrongly) as an evil nation of fanatical racists. And by the time people were able to view the bombings dispassionately, it was too long past for it to seriously colour anyone's views of the US, not anyone important at least.
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