Well, this is the first time I've listened to de Waal and not been irritated by him. The discussion about the "selfish" origins of empathy being separate from the manner in which humans choose to leverage (or not) that capacity was much needed and is rarely explicitly stated in these discussions. I am quite certain that some people are empathically challenged to an astounding degree.
Am just now reading Harris's The Moral Landscape
and am struck by what seems to me to be a lot of common ground between Harris and Bob regarding the moral future and potential of humanity. Harris even talks about non-zerosumness, though in a more incidental manner than Bob does. Their debate should be interesting. Here is the link to their debate in LA: http://www.secularhumanism.org/laconference/live.html