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  #1  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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  #2  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:26 AM
lamoose lamoose is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Obama to not announce a specific plan for closing Gitmo on day-one for a few very obvious reasons (so obvious that I think Althouse may be overdoing it in her incredulity):

1. As he was President-elect during the transition and not President, he and his team presumably did not have complete access to all of the classified intelligence and information on the detainees in Gitmo. Therefore, giving his team a full review, with a complete understanding of what we have on these guys, what was corrupted by torture, etc. seems understandable.

2. Closing Guantanamo will likely require some diplomatic heavy lifting as we try to cajole some of our allies to take custody of these prisoners.

3. If the "enemy combatants" are to be housed within the U.S., it is possible that we will need to construct a new facility. (I believe that Geneva does not allow foreign captives to be held alongside domestic prisoners... not sure if that will apply.)

Of course, then it becomes apparent that Althouse doesn't really want them moved at all, and finds the idea of moving them dangerous. It seems pretty clear that Althouse would have preferred Obama to act swiftly and recklessly on the issue so as to make it easier to demagogue.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:51 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by lamoose View Post
Of course, then it becomes apparent that Althouse doesn't really want them moved at all, and finds the idea of moving them dangerous. It seems pretty clear that Althouse would have preferred Obama to act swiftly and recklessly on the issue so as to make it easier to demagogue.
Smart point.

It seemed evident from this part of the diavlog that Ann cared only about getting two talking points across: (1) Repeat the Fox News mantra of fear of the super-villain terrorists with magic evil powers, and (2) Defend her BFF, poor Rush Limbaugh, from Obama and his cohort of nasty liberals, so that he can continue to spray whatever obnoxious crap oozes out of his butt without having to suffer any consequences. Not this time.

Ann's charade of being a moderate is laughably transparent. She's a card-carrying member of the rightwing noise machine, with nary an original observation to make about the political scene, and nothing more. She doesn't have "concerns." She's a concern troll.

(To the inevitable Ann fans: I know, I know, she claims to have voted for Obama, and now she's just being her "fierce independent skeptical" self. Spare me. Just because she has you snowed doesn't mean I can't hear the truth.)

It's a shame Emily can't be paired with someone else. Waste of a good diavlogger.
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:07 PM
Uhurusasa Uhurusasa is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Smart point.


(To the inevitable Ann fans: I know, I know, she claims to have voted for Obama, and now she's just being her "fierce independent skeptical" self. Spare me. Just because she has you snowed doesn't mean I can't hear the truth.)
Ann is to me, the gadfly. i like that! she challenges her debater to hit her oddly moving targets. she is an exercise in thinking, not conformity. it is uncomfortable to have to discard our handy templates, and chase this crazy lady round and about. the fact that she is not "nailed" enough, doesn't mean that she can't be!

i don't look to her for truth. she challenges me to focus my attention enough to clarify my position on a given subject. sometimes i agree, and sometimes i don't agree with her. sometimes, i can't figure out what her point is! but, i enjoy the process,more times than not! she makes me uncomfortable in a pleasant sort of way. hmmmm!!?

i like her, but i don't consider myself a fan!!! i wouldn't walk a mile for a camel or an althouse!!
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:22 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by Uhurusasa View Post
Ann is to me, the gadfly.
There's something to that. I suppose I'd be able to tolerate that act if she weren't also so thin-skinned (or, always looking to pick a blogfight for attention-getting reasons, which manifests equivalently). Seems to me the good kind of gadfly, which, say, Mickey Kaus can do from time to time, both gives you a hint at some point that this was just for the purpose of seeing where some random thought would lead, and doesn't make a big deal in response to the reactions provoked.

Plus, even if I stipulate to your hypothesis, I wonder why it always has to be in the same direction; i.e., seems to me that a worthwhile gadfly could potentially come at an issue from any and all directions. Ann, by contrast, always comes from the same one -- she habitually defends the worst of the right and scolds or complains (or expresses "concern") about everything else.
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2009, 11:24 PM
Uhurusasa Uhurusasa is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Seems to me the good kind of gadfly, which, say, Mickey Kaus can do from time to time, both gives you a hint at some point that this was just for the purpose of seeing where some random thought would lead, and doesn't make a big deal in response to the reactions provoked.

Plus, even if I stipulate to your hypothesis, I wonder why it always has to be in the same direction; i.e., seems to me that a worthwhile gadfly could potentially come at an issue from any and all directions. Ann, by contrast, always comes from the same one -- she habitually defends the worst of the right and scolds or complains (or expresses "concern") about everything else.
i am not sure about good/bad gadflies, i doubt if Ann is THE perfect gadfly. the gadfly is biased, yet provocative! even making you question her bias is good. the high-swat risk of the gadfly is the price of the ride. and she seems to love the ride, yet cry "why doesn't anyone love me". generally, gadflies are more tolerated, and appreciated, than loved. they so seldom hit their marks, yet stir up a lot of activity, and draw a lot of attention!

i am not sure(i love the wiggle-room of uncertainty) if your logical criticism is valid, but i am sure that she rubs you the wrong way. is your judgement(i an kidding) being clouded by your emotions? the fact that so many people are irritated by Ann, yet just don't ignore her is curious!

i only know her in the context of bhtv,so i can't speak to her other writings.

remember the name is Althouse, not Outhouse!

Ann, i love you baby, but i don't count!! that's how it goes!!
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2009, 11:46 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by Uhurusasa View Post
the fact that so many people are irritated by Ann, yet just don't ignore her is curious!
I don't know about others, but I watched this one only to hear what Emily had to say. I usually skip Ann's diavlogs.
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2009, 07:45 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by Uhurusasa View Post
Ann is to me, the gadfly. i like that! she challenges her debater to hit her oddly moving targets. she is an exercise in thinking, not conformity. it is uncomfortable to have to discard our handy templates, and chase this crazy lady round and about. the fact that she is not "nailed" enough, doesn't mean that she can't be!

i don't look to her for truth. she challenges me to focus my attention enough to clarify my position on a given subject. sometimes i agree, and sometimes i don't agree with her. sometimes, i can't figure out what her point is! but, i enjoy the process,more times than not! she makes me uncomfortable in a pleasant sort of way. hmmmm!!?

i like her, but i don't consider myself a fan!!! i wouldn't walk a mile for a camel or an althouse!!
I think that describes Althouse at her best. The problem is that by discarding handy templates she takes a chance on making really boneheaded statements that would have died in any internal partisan debates before reaching a wider audience. You could have the biggest hackiest anti-Obama pundit - we'll refer to this hypothetical pundit as "B. Kristol" henceforth - and even he would have second thoughts about claiming that Obama is the first president to distance himself from prior presidents and it's just so awful. Does anyone really think that, for instance, Reagan gave no indication his foreign policy would differ from Carter's? Does anyone think that would actually be a GOOD thing for him to do?
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:43 PM
Uhurusasa Uhurusasa is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by pampl View Post
I think that describes Althouse at her best. The problem is that by discarding handy templates she takes a chance on making really boneheaded statements that would have died in any internal partisan debates before reaching a wider audience. You could have the biggest hackiest anti-Obama pundit - we'll refer to this hypothetical pundit as "B. Kristol" henceforth - and even he would have second thoughts about claiming that Obama is the first president to distance himself from prior presidents and it's just so awful. Does anyone really think that, for instance, Reagan gave no indication his foreign policy would differ from Carter's? Does anyone think that would actually be a GOOD thing for him to do?
i agree, but i think that a certain kind of debater could exploit the many openings that she leaves in her arguments, and produce very interesting and useful debate! if you hold her feet to the fire a little bit, i'd bet that she could really dance beyond her usual shuffle!! she is as good as you make her be! she is odd, but potentially quite dynamic.

i hope that she is well. she seemed a bit more restless than usual. it makes me wonder what's in that cup that she is usually sipping from?

Last edited by Uhurusasa; 01-28-2009 at 11:56 PM..
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

I applaud Ann for her clear statement that Obama's Mideast policy is shaping up to be a change of atmospherics, but not of substance.
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:09 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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I applaud Ann for her clear statement that Obama's Mideast policy is shaping up to be a change of atmospherics, but not of substance.
I'd ask you the same question I'd ask her: How can you possibly say what "Obama's Mideast policy is shaping up to be" after one week in office?

Please. You both sound like the worst sort of MSM conventional-wisdom-babbling talking heads when you say stuff like this.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Car Talk policy

Quote:
How can you possibly say what "Obama's Mideast policy is shaping up to be" after one week in office?
Let me clarify. Obama does have a stated position that is different by definition: doing more listening and less dictating. Presumably, he is making a comparison to the Bush administration. I should say I'm not opposed to this; it's a change I believe in.

Whether this will have a measurable effect "on the ground", different from the Bush policy is not clear to me.

I see both Bush and Obama as part of the same, slow, continuous process of disengagement from the Arab-Isaeli conflict. Sorry about that, Tom Friedman.

I call it the "Car Talk" Mideast policy. You see, on the NPR radio program "Car Talk", the hosts discuss ways of dealing with an intractable automotive problem: a "check engine" light that comes on for no understandable reason. The solution? Place a piece of black electrical tape over the light so it does not distract you.

Similarly, we are not going to meddle very much in the Arab-Isaeli conflict until the parties involved find their own way to peace, or until there is a really huge crisis. And playing the role of the electrical tape? George Mitchell.

Last edited by Simon Willard; 01-28-2009 at 12:49 PM..
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:26 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Let me clarify. [...]
Essentially, I'd give the same answer as before. Seems to me you're not doing anything but projecting worries. You don't yet have enough data to say anything meaningful about Obama's dealings with the Middle East.
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:22 PM
grits-n-gravy grits-n-gravy is offline
 
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Default Re: Car Talk policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjkeefe;102318 to Simon
Essentially, I'd give the same answer as before. Seems to me you're not doing anything but projecting worries. You don't yet have enough data to say anything meaningful about Obama's dealings with the Middle East.
We may not have enough data to draw any firm conclusions but his interview with Al-Arabiya doesn't signal any change other than tactical and stylistics. I hope I'm wrong. What would signal a fundamental and meaningful shift in mid-east policy to me is when Obama abandons rhetoric like "Israel's security is paramount". He did quite the opposite in his interview.

Last edited by grits-n-gravy; 01-30-2009 at 07:24 PM..
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:26 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Originally Posted by grits-n-gravy View Post
We may not have enough data to draw any firm conclusions but his interview with Al-Arabiya doesn't signal any change other than tactical and stylistics. I hope I'm wrong. What would signal a fundamental and meaningful shift in mid-east policy to me is when Obama abandons rhetoric like "Israel's security is paramount". He did quite the opposite in his interview.
Reasonable points. Still, I'd say let's wait and see. Let's also keep in mind the constraints (from the dominant viewpoints among the American punditocracy, political class, and population at large) that he'll be operating under -- it is not feasible to foist a sudden dramatic change, even if he wanted to. It's going to have to be slow and steady progress.

As far as actual events go, one encouraging development has been al-Qaeda's recent ramping up of their efforts to disparage Obama. That says to me that to the extent that his signaling means anything, it means to them that they have to worry that he's going to improve relationships with moderates in the Arab and Muslim worlds.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:34 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Car Talk policy

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
I see both Bush and Obama as part of the same, slow, continuous process of disengagement from the Mideast.
This is the first time I've heard someone describe Bush foreign policy as a "process of disengagement from the Mideast."
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:47 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Car Talk policy

Right. I should have specified "Arab-Israeli conflict".
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
I applaud Ann for her clear statement that Obama's Mideast policy is shaping up to be a change of atmospherics, but not of substance.
For anyone who is looking for substance instead of atmospherics I recommend the following selections from the London Review of Books. These are people who actually know something.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/web/15/01/2009/mult04_.html

As well as the article by Henry Siegman:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n02/sieg01_.html

Last edited by Francoamerican; 01-28-2009 at 01:31 PM..
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Are there any othe examples of a sitting president criticizing a media figure? I don't keep track of these things.
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Old 01-28-2009, 11:59 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Are there any othe examples of a sitting president criticizing a media figure? I don't keep track of these things.
I can think of at least two.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Tyrrell McAllister Tyrrell McAllister is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Are there any othe examples of a sitting president criticizing a media figure? I don't keep track of these things.
He was a vice-president rather than a president, but Dan Quayle's criticisms of Candice Bergen come to mind.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:23 AM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Let me guess before I don't bother to watch this - Ann is the one who bets Obama won't close Gitmo.

I'm a f'ing genius. Okay, on to the New York Times. Some shit must have happened that I actually give one about.
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:29 AM
Salt Salt is offline
 
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Quoting bj: . . . Defend her BFF, poor Rush Limbaugh, from Obama and his cohort of nasty liberals, so that he can continue to spray whatever obnoxious crap oozes out of his butt without having to suffer any consequences. Not this time.

Are you even an adult? They don't even have this potty-mouth stuff on MSNBC. Try to keep your ramblings within the bounds of propriety.
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:36 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Try to keep your ramblings within the bounds of propriety.
You mean like this?

Sorry to offend your prim sensibilities, Salt, but sometimes a little plain speaking is in order. You want to clean up the discourse, start on your own side of the aisle.
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  #25  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:46 AM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

If Althouse is so offended by a President dissing prior presidents and trying to distance themselves from their predecessor then it's a good thing she's been living under a rock for all her life until this week.
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  #26  
Old 01-28-2009, 11:48 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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If Althouse is so offended by a President dissing prior presidents and trying to distance themselves from their predecessor then it's a good thing she's been living under a rock for all her life until this week.
Are you suggesting the Bush Administration ever cast aspersions on Bill Clinton?

(*faints*)
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:12 PM
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Hearing someone who attempts to portray herself as an objective and serious intellectual rather than a reflexive partisan hack discuss listening to Rush and defend his poor beleagured self, and subsequently explain that part of the reason she refused to see a movie was to escape subjecting herself to her assumption of the director's "liberal agenda" seems to exemplify something to my poor and sluggish mind. Is it irony? Perhaps farce?
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

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Hearing someone who attempts to portray herself as an objective and serious intellectual rather than a reflexive partisan hack discuss listening to Rush and defend his poor beleagured self, and subsequently explain that part of the reason she refused to see a movie was to escape subjecting herself to her assumption of the director's "liberal agenda" seems to exemplify something to my poor and sluggish mind. Is it irony? Perhaps farce?
Farce. Unfortunately, it's not quite Wodehouse.
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  #29  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:14 PM
nkirby nkirby is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Ann Althouse pretends to be a rationalist and posits more conspiracy theories than a 9/11 Truther on meth. It's hilarious.
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  #30  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quoting bj: so that he [Limbaugh] can continue to spray whatever obnoxious crap oozes out of his butt without having to suffer any consequences. . . . Sorry to offend your prim sensibilities, Salt, but sometimes a little plain speaking is in order.

Plain speaking? Your comments are not plain speaking, just crass. If you want to put yourself in the same style category as Limbaugh, go right ahead, but you don't see me dragging every vulgar comment I disagree with in here.

Quoting bj: You want to clean up the discourse, start on your own side of the aisle.

Forbearance has nothing to do with ideology. Is this a forum for issues, or not? BTW, your little comment about "suffer[ing] the consequences" is very telling about your self-righteous, totalitarian leanings and, more broadly, reflects a broader environment of intolerance that includes liberal objectives like "Fairness Doctrine". This is the road to Hell.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:39 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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*** It's time for another round of Spot The Irony! ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Try to keep your ramblings within the bounds of propriety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Is this a forum for issues, or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
BTW, your little comment about "suffer[ing] the consequences" is very telling about your self-righteous, totalitarian leanings ...
So, you complain about my words, and you want to tell me what I may and may not say, but I'm the self-righteous totalitarian?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
... and, more broadly, reflects a broader environment of intolerance that includes liberal objectives like "Fairness Doctrine". This is the road to Hell.
I would like to play along and pretend that this is actually a serious "liberal objective," just to watch you continue to wet your pants, but I can't keep a straight face. You should spend less time listening to your own side's fear-mongering. Believe me, the Fairness Doctrine is never coming back.

And please don't scurry off to find some one-liner from Chuck Schumer and pretend it represents anything serious. He's just messing with your head. Good for a laugh, and possibly useful as a distraction for making those of you who flip out in response appear further out on the fringe, but that's all there is to it.

The truth is, the purported return of the Fairness Doctrine is a drumbeat being hammered by GOP politicians who can't think of anything else to use to rally their base.

(cf., particularly the last blockquote.)
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  #32  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Salt Salt is offline
 
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Quoting bj: I would like to play along and pretend that this is actually a serious "liberal objective," just to watch you continue to wet your pants, but I can't keep a straight face. You should spend less time listening to your own side's fear-mongering. Believe me, the Fairness Doctrine is never coming back.

I only go by what I read, see and hear and I saw a recent video of Nancy Pelosi asked about whether she wanted to bring back Fairness Doctrine and she said she had always believed in the Fairness Doctrine. Crystal clear.
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:08 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Quoting bj: I would like to play along and pretend that this is actually a serious "liberal objective," just to watch you continue to wet your pants, but I can't keep a straight face. You should spend less time listening to your own side's fear-mongering. Believe me, the Fairness Doctrine is never coming back.

I only go by what I read, see and hear and I saw a recent video of Nancy Pelosi asked about whether she wanted to bring back Fairness Doctrine and she said she had always believed in the Fairness Doctrine. Crystal clear.
I knew I should have thrown Pelosi in there with Schumer. Same thing -- she was just yanking the collective wingnut chain. (Did you even read the "cf." link?)

But hey, if you'd rather believe it, fine by me. The longer your side stays focused on fairy tales, the longer you'll be in the wilderness, and that's all the better for the country.
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2009, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Amen, Salt. Good post.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quoting bj: Quoting Salt: Are there any othe examples of a sitting president criticizing a media figure? I don't keep track of these things.
I can think of at least two.

For a second there, I thought you were serious. Okay, you went back 35 years to Nixon. Touche, but it almost proves my point. Memo to White House, setting yourself up for parallels with Nixon is not a good thing. The second piece you referenced just accused Bush of more nefarious media manipulation, but it didn't seem to include any attacks by the president on a specific media figure. I'm sure some other blogger will give some better examples.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Quoting bj: Quoting Salt: Are there any othe examples of a sitting president criticizing a media figure? I don't keep track of these things.
I can think of at least two.

For a second there, I thought you were serious. Okay, you went back 35 years to Nixon. Touche, but it almost proves my point. Memo to White House, setting yourself up for parallels with Nixon is not a good thing. The second piece you referenced just accused Bush of more nefarious media manipulation, but it didn't seem to include any attacks by the president on a specific media figure. I'm sure some other blogger will give some better examples.
Clinton also attacked Rush Limbaugh while he was president. As for other examples, I'm not sure anyone would remember, because there's nothing particularly memorable about a president criticizing members of the press. Ho hum.

Are you really offended that a president would call out a particular media figure by name? I think your real issue must be who was called out by whom, not the fact of the calling out.

Last edited by TwinSwords; 01-28-2009 at 12:39 PM..
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2009, 08:56 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Rush Limbaugh so readily distorts, misrepresents and flat-out lies about Democrats, that I see no reason why Obama shouldn't call him out on it or explain why Rush has his facts mistaken or is on the wrong side of an issue. I don't see a tremendous difference between this and answering a ridiculous claim/question at a news conference. Obama has every right to set the record straight when he feels his position is being misrepresented. Lord knows when the wingnuts raise some point and repeat it ad nauseum with no response, an unavaoidable "well why won't he answer these charges/questions etc." always accompanies it. It's truly sad that so many millions of Americans listen to Limbaugh and give his intellectualy dishonest and over-simplified/stereotype talking points any real consideration, but the reality is that they do. But I admire the fact that Obama is willing to speak directly to speak to the sheep regardless of the likelihood of them actually listening.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:24 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

I can't believe any serious person would pay any mind to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Michael Savage. They are overpaid jerks.

As far as the movies are concerned I haven't seen any of those nominated. I will say "Revolutionary Road" is a dynamite novel and it's author Richard Yates is underrated.

I did rent this one recently with Joaquin Phoenix and Claire Danes called "It's All About Love." I couldn't believe how bad it was. Just terrible!

John

Last edited by bkjazfan; 01-28-2009 at 09:53 PM..
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  #39  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:42 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

John, I agree. Just read Rev Road a couple months ago and was AMAZED at how awesome it was. I didn't see the movie yet but I heard it was a pretty good adaptation from a friend who also loved the book.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:59 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: What Do Women Diavloggers Want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
John, I agree. Just read Rev Road a couple months ago and was AMAZED at how awesome it was. I didn't see the movie yet but I heard it was a pretty good adaptation from a friend who also loved the book.
From what I gather the movie comes off as being too depressing. Let's face it, Yates wrotes about depressing things. However, when I read "RR" around 12 or so years ago I felt I had consumed a modern masterpiece. His short stories are worthwhile, too.

John

Last edited by bkjazfan; 01-28-2009 at 10:47 PM..
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