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  #1  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:35 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

The Amplifier clip-sharing contest continues in July, so keep on submitting to win an item from our Cafe Press store.

Last edited by Aryeh; 07-16-2011 at 01:18 AM..
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:57 PM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Possible Cultural guests -with Blogs

01) James Bowman
02) Vox Day
03) Roger Kimball
04) Taki
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  #3  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:05 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Monologues? OK by Me

I think it'd be nice change. But you really need someone who can talk and be interesting. A rare combination - Kaus and Althouse might be good. Sadly, many Econ and Poli Sci professors love to talk - but lack the "interesting" quality.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:06 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Add a new "technical difficulty" to the list. The woodpecker effect.
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:14 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=1813

http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showth...508#post216508

Rather than hope that random viewers happen upon this fractured dv, why not solicit the suggestions on an official bhtv thread? Generated by you, to complement the above links and the hundreds of requests already in the forum.
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Starwatcher162536 Starwatcher162536 is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

More suggestions for future diavlog subjects can be found in the Requested topics thread. Personally I think the best thing you can do to improve the "Science Saturday" diavlogs is beg forgiveness from Carl Zimmer & Sean Carroll Bob.
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Last edited by Starwatcher162536; 07-15-2011 at 12:24 AM..
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  #7  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:22 AM
propagandhi propagandhi is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

One thing I can say about the sharing aspect of bhtv is this. I don't have a tone of Facebook friends, and the crowd I hang out with generally isn't as involved with or interested in current events/politics and so my ability to really "amplify" any of the stuff I see on bloggingheads is rather limited. I honestly wouldn't mind at all paying the $25 a year I spend on my vanity fair subscription to help out the cause. I'd like to know if watching clips via the New York Times site would have a more positive effect than watching on bhtv, or elsewhere.
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  #8  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:38 AM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Monovlogs are painful.

No, we already have too many monovlogs, like the recent Greenwald/Somin episode, where there was nearly perfect agreement that drug legalization would be a good thing by every rational measure. Yet, when I reflect on this a little, it seems obvious that any substantial form of drug legalization is difficult and unlikely. So what gives? Is it possible that there are arguments against legalization? The atmosphere of unreality was so strong, I came away thinking my time had been wasted.

Bloggingheads is only interesting when people with differing views participate. This does not mean knock-down drag-out fights between Democratic and Republican partisans who are trying to score rhetorical points. But it does mean getting people who can throw light on issues from different directions.

Last edited by Simon Willard; 07-15-2011 at 12:40 AM..
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:52 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Monovlogs are painful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
No, we already have too many monovlogs, like the recent Greenwald/Somin episode, where there was nearly perfect agreement that drug legalization would be a good thing by every rational measure. Yet, when I reflect on this a little, it seems obvious that any substantial form of drug legalization is difficult and unlikely. So what gives? Is it possible that there are arguments against legalization? The atmosphere of unreality was so strong, I came away thinking my time had been wasted.
I agree to an extent. The solution? Have someone do a MV attacking this kind of Libertarian fantasy. MV's might also get some exciting DV'ers that otherwise wouldn't have the time or the inclination to do a DV.

And frankly, a lot BHTV DVs *should be* monovlogs. Many times the two people don't really disagree with each other and it'd better if we just cut out the "weak sister" and let the more interesting one do a monovlog.

Quote:
Bloggingheads is only interesting when people with differing views participate. This does not mean knock-down drag-out fights between Democratic and Republican partisans who are trying to score rhetorical points. But it does mean getting people who can throw light on issues from different directions.
I agree, but it doesn't happen as often as it should.

Last edited by rcocean; 07-15-2011 at 02:16 AM..
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:05 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Okay. How about you have a really attractive person on video reading text directly from an assortment of well trafficked blogs. You can piggyback on the popularity of the chosen blog and draw viewers with the eye appeal of the reader. No name change required. Can I have the production staff job now?

Last edited by graz; 07-15-2011 at 01:10 AM..
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:32 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Okay. How about you have a really attractive person on video reading text directly from an assortment of well trafficked blogs. You can piggyback on the popularity of the chosen blog and draw viewers with the eye appeal of the reader. No name change required. Can I have the production staff job now?
Thanks for joining us. Now we can really have a thoughtful discussion!
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:48 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
Thanks for joining us. Now we can really have a thoughtful discussion!
You're welcome.
Hey, even your "serious stuff" is sexist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post

And frankly, a lot BHTV DVs *should be* monovlogs. Many times the two people don't really disagree with each other and it'd better if we just cut out the "weak sister" and let the more interesting one do a monovlog.
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:06 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
You're welcome.
Hey, even your "serious stuff" is sexist.
Like I always say, when you want philosophy and in-depth discussion - get Graz.
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:13 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Arrow Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
Like I always say, when you want philosophy and in-depth discussion - get Graz.
Like Althouse - you got nothin' fanboy.
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  #15  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:23 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Please ignore the following suggestions after giving it some thought:

1. More days allocated to specific subjects, e.g., Science Saturday, Philosophy Friday, etc. Alliteration optional. Perhaps delegate mini-editor powers to one person who is responsible for doing diavlogs once a week. Like a boss. Having an expectable weekly show might create the Schelling point that is desired. But I have no data, so what do I know?

2. More shameless book promotion as a way to entice guests that might otherwise be difficult to attract. I've been introduced to so many books through this website, but this emphasis, if it ever existed, seems to have tapered off over the past few months. I believe Tyler Cowen said he'd find a huge value add in a site dedicated to book synopsis/curation and I'd agree.

3. More policy people with good data.

4. More content, period. The angry mob demands more stuff.
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Last edited by sugarkang; 07-15-2011 at 04:28 AM..
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  #16  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:44 AM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Monologues? OK by Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
I think it'd be nice change. But you really need someone who can talk and be interesting. A rare combination - Kaus and Althouse might be good. Sadly, many Econ and Poli Sci professors love to talk - but lack the "interesting" quality.
There are plenty of those in audio format. They're called podcasts.
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:52 AM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default The Medium Is the Message

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Bloggingheads is only interesting when people with differing views participate. This does not mean knock-down drag-out fights between Democratic and Republican partisans who are trying to score rhetorical points. But it does mean getting people who can throw light on issues from different directions.
Thank you! It bears repeating, because Bob Wright doesn't seem to understand it, that the medium is the message. I won't speak for others here, but I like bh.tv because people who disagree used to do diavlogs where they debated "things" politely and could talk intelligibly without talking over and through and against the other guy in the other box. It was a cage match for geeks.

I would say we like Science Saturday so much and Wright/Kaus because these guys can debate so well. McWhorter/Loury is another. PinkerCorn - where are they? - were the absolute tops, and much more topical than The Week in Blog. As a matter of fact, PinkerCorn alone once a week might even lead me to consider - dare I speak it lest I give staffers an orgasm? - paying for a diavlog.

Someone needs to educate Bob quickly.
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:02 AM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

First of all, epic fail on piercing the opacity issue. I expected to hear, "On Mondays we get drunk in the office and throw darts at a board until we get 10 bulls-eye's for a particular pairing!" Or, "We take (or give) bribes until 3 pm on Friday!". Or, "It's Aryeh's fault!" I don't remember what was said, because it definitely was not a response to that query.

Secondly, apoplexy alert! I have asked you Holy Land-deluded, woolly-minded, klatching freaks for East Asia-related content for YEARS!

Thirdly, don't cut the cord! Please, one diavlog a week tops on philosophy is enough!

Fourthly, if you haven't noticed -oh, you did! - the country is balkanized. The country needs bhtv to demonstrate a non-crony, partisan, polite, and productive medium presenting solutions and perspectives that citizens can use, to make decisions! Alright, no more of the last shreds of my small-r republicanism!

Did I mention I was disappointed and angry?!! No irony.

Last edited by Hume's Bastard; 07-15-2011 at 08:50 AM..
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:45 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: The Medium Is the Message

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hume's Bastard View Post
PinkerCorn - where are they? - were the absolute tops, and much more topical than The Week in Blog. As a matter of fact, PinkerCorn alone once a week might even lead me to consider - dare I speak it lest I give staffers an orgasm? - paying for a diavlog.
Agreed. And I would also like to see McWhorter/Loury do non-black things.
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:41 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Moved from alternate thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hume's Bastard View Post
Welcome to bhtv! Please do a diavlog - or a monovlog, now that Bob is lowering the standards. Watch out - there's a Koch-funded lecture coming your way. You'll be dreaming of the days when you would be lucky if there were a sycophant in the second box who still wouldn't challenge or question, but who would at least break up the monotony.

You forgot to mention the panoply of podcasts around, too. I'm beginning to think good people won't do diavlogs because it's like running a gauntlet of shills, exactly the human detritus many academics and journalists want to avoid becoming or knowing. Either that, they're just cowards who don't want to leave any unfiltered, unedited, and permitted verbiage on record. And, Bob, podcasters have audiences! And, blogs! And, jobs! The more I think about that abortion of a Commenter Klatsch, I just want to kiss Bob on the lips, to awaken whatever is left of his conscience. R.I.P, bhtv!

A kind word for Wilkinson, though. He does good work for The Economist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Passionate as always, Joseph. They might just succeed in spite of themselves -- stay tuned for tech-heads. Remaining in the "A's", I'll add abomination to your assessment of the "klatch". I know that your hyperbole wasn't intended to suggest actually striking Bob (a banning might ensue). But it was a slap in our collective listening (watching) faces for them to act so clueless and present such a poorly produced "show". Maybe that's their design after all -- bhtv: propaganda, poor production and foundation welfare. They must have decided to forego sustained effort at booking some time ago. Also, nice tell on their part to act as if it was the first time any thoughts or suggestions for improvement were offered in the forum.

Hey, I wouldn't blame them if they ignored us generally, except for the part where they continue to solicit us to spread the product like meme. The other option is to actually offer a great product. Genius, I know.

Last edited by graz; 07-15-2011 at 09:01 AM..
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  #21  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:44 AM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Thanks for moving that! That damn diavlog is taking over my brain now.
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  #22  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:46 AM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hume's Bastard View Post
Thanks for moving that! That damn diavlog is taking over my brain now.
They asked for feedback-- they got it!
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  #23  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:11 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

I'd like to see Andrew Revkin
with a moderate climate skeptic. I have a good list, if anyone's interested but one person who comes to mind is Judith Curry. I think it's really important to dispell the climate skeptics are insane meme. I think this event would get picked up on lots of climate focussed blogs, if that's the kind of linking you're interested in.

A friend of mine is going to run me through the Facebook process today, primarily to generate more hits for my business website. If it seems feasible and appropriate, I'll definitely link to BHtv.
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Last edited by badhatharry; 07-15-2011 at 09:21 AM..
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  #24  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:26 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Monologues? OK by Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hume's Bastard View Post
There are plenty of those in audio format. They're called podcasts.
Like this.
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:09 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Moved from alternate thread.
What a jerk. If this site is so beneath your standards why do you spend so much time here? Go elsewhere and take the bastard with you.
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:11 AM
eeeeeeeli eeeeeeeli is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I'd like to see Andrew Revkin
with a moderate climate skeptic. I have a good list, if anyone's interested but one person who comes to mind is Judith Curry. I think it's really important to dispell the climate skeptics are insane meme. I think this event would get picked up on lots of climate focussed blogs, if that's the kind of linking you're interested in.
I think that's a great idea. In general, I'd really like to see more specificity in expertise/interest paired up across aisles. Too often it seems we get interesting discussions by generalist pundits who sort of do a "lay of the land" thing, yet only occasionally engage on substance.
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  #27  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:00 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Monologues? OK by Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
I think it'd be nice change.
I totally disagree. I don't like really any talky format that includes only one person talking. It's a very rare person who can make it interesting, and even then it's a very different thing than a two person conversation, and not something I'm interested in.

Of course, if we changed Althouse's appearances to monologues, I would never have to feel sadness at missing an appearance by her diavlog partner.
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  #28  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:09 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I'd like to see Andrew Revkin
with a moderate climate skeptic. I have a good list, if anyone's interested but one person who comes to mind is Judith Curry. I think it's really important to dispell the climate skeptics are insane meme. I think this event would get picked up on lots of climate focussed blogs, if that's the kind of linking you're interested in.
I agree!
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:28 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
What a jerk. If this site is so beneath your standards why do you spend so much time here? Go elsewhere and take the bastard with you.
It's not beneath my standards ... It's more that they seem to have given up. I really wish they would focus on improving the product. Maybe now that they've given up on commenter court a refocus is in order. They seem rather clueless sad to say.

Thanks for your continued support.
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:51 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Thanks for responding to my question. I've mentioned a few bloggers in the past who I think might work for cultural diavlogs, but will put a post together naming some here, for greater convenience. I know other people have had ideas, so I hope they do the same.
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  #31  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:59 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Monovlogs are painful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
Bloggingheads is only interesting when people with differing views participate. This does not mean knock-down drag-out fights between Democratic and Republican partisans who are trying to score rhetorical points. But it does mean getting people who can throw light on issues from different directions.
I agree somewhat, although as I've said before, I don't think this means every debate should be along traditional political lines, like some Crossfire thing. Indeed, if those are the measuring ground, the Ilya/Glenn diavlog may have seemed diverse, although even on paper when I looked at the list of topics it seemed obvious it would not be. But also I don't think every diavlog has to involve disagreement -- there are topics that tend themselves to other formats, as with the Science Saturday ones, sometimes.

I found it interesting that Bob indicated that there was some difficulty in finding guests who would debate with those with whom they deeply disagree. I guess this shouldn't be surprising -- I've speculated it might be part of the reason we get far more libertarians than traditional Republicans or social cons -- but it is a little anyway. I know the difficulty as I once was involved in planning a symposium where that dynamic was a nightmare, but for some reason it seems like there's enough cross talk on blogs of the sort bhTV seems to largely draw from that it wouldn't be such an issue. It's a shame.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:13 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Willard View Post
I agree!
You know, it seems to me the best reason for doing this would be to demonstrate that the reasonable "skeptics" (who generally aren't skeptics in the sense that term is used in the political realm -- those who insist that there's no problem at all and all concern about it is a liberal made up thing for other nefarious reasons that make no sense) aren't remotely supporting the kinds of positions that the political consensus on the right try to use them for.

For example, those who want to debate in a reasonable fashion how bad the problem is, whether it's likely to be as bad as many of the most concerned scientists and environmentalists claim, seem to think that this is relevant to a discussion over, say, cap & trade. Like that the pro carbon tax or cap & trade position is somehow dependent on their being an imminent crisis.* But if that were so, the government would be acting much differently than debating over whether to take mild measures or do nothing at all. Those who think there's an imminent crisis should be pissed at all sides here. Those who think it's potentially a problem and there's some reason for concern ought to generally support the kinds of mild measures some want to take (like a carbon tax and support for alternative energy and international efforts and, heck, all those frequently mocked efforts like cutting down on plastic bottles and recycling and talking about the problems with our food policies and so on) and still think people like John Shimkus are pretty much insane on the issue.

So sure, why not.

*To be clear, I'm not remotely suggesting that the government's action is evidence that there is no imminent crisis. I'm saying that the pretend debate, which is over whether it's really as bad as some claim, has nothing to do with our policy, since the policy measures which get fought to the death and derided as extreme leftwing blah, blah are hardly what hardcore environmentalists and those most worried about climate change think would be sufficient. They are more along the lines of "there's obviously a negative externality and it seems there are at least some bad effects, so let's try and deal with that negative externality in the ordinary way."

Last edited by stephanie; 07-15-2011 at 01:17 PM..
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  #33  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:46 PM
chamblee54 chamblee54 is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

The lighting on Bob's video seems to be improved. This has been a problem. The audio is a bit distorted, which is a key concern to multi-taskers. ( spell check suggestions: mulch ,mufti , takers, tankers, tasters, talkers, tackers)
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  #34  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:41 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I'd like to see Andrew Revkin
with a moderate climate skeptic. I have a good list, if anyone's interested ...
You've been asked to produce this alleged list several times already. Starting at least as far back as four months ago.

Not that there's actually anything meaningful to the term "moderate climate skeptic."

[Added] Just ask a philosopher.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Condolences to Mickey on the death of his mother.
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:27 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

If BhTV wants to go ahead and try monovlogs I suggest doing 30-40 minute trials first. A monovlog can be interesting, without being a novel means of communication. It ends up being a "talk" by an expert. Audiovisuals are good for learning purposes.

Yes, I know there are all kinds of those in excellent websites (google talks, TED, etc), but still not everything has to be original. It would be one more option for this audience. I wouldn't discourage trying new things. If it doesn't work, it wouldn't be difficult to backpedal.
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:28 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graz View Post
Okay. How about you have a really attractive person on video reading text directly from an assortment of well trafficked blogs. You can piggyback on the popularity of the chosen blog and draw viewers with the eye appeal of the reader. No name change required. Can I have the production staff job now?
I thought you were volunteering as the attractive reader.
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  #38  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:32 PM
Simon Willard Simon Willard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
You know, it seems to me the best reason for doing this would be to demonstrate that the reasonable "skeptics" ... aren't remotely supporting the kinds of positions that the political consensus on the right try to use them for.
The AGW debate is extremely complicated and multi-faceted. There are a dozen ways to define the "skepticism". For example, I'm a skeptic who believes in AGW. But I won't elaborate today.

Various facets of the issue include:
* the certainty of our understanding of climate science,
* the difficulty of extrapolating to future effects that are hard to measure today,
* researcher motives and society's confidence in the scientific establishment,
* the value of computer simulation,
* technological developments of the future,
* moral issues connected to population growth,
* the connection between energy consumption and the advance of liberal civilization,
* how much leverage can legislation and treaties apply to the problem.

Gosh, that's material for 8 AGW diavlogs right there.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:42 PM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

I agree that all those are worthy topics and each could take quite some time to discuss. In order to address those you need two AGW supporters who are knowledgeable.

Climate Change deniers (or AGW deniers) are a waste of time. That discussion (whether there is or there isn't climate change) isn't productive and leads nowhere. The departing point should be that there is climate change, and then discuss how bad, what to do, etc.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:42 PM
Hume's Bastard Hume's Bastard is offline
 
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Default Re: Commenter Klatch (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
What a jerk. If this site is so beneath your standards why do you spend so much time here? Go elsewhere and take the bastard with you.
Maybe you could debate here with yourself, and the Koch Brothers might fund you both of your avatars? Again, lowering the standards to allow monovlogs would be perfect for narcissists like you. Anytime you want to make a decent comment on the subject, and not try to be all censorious and adolescent - are you going to hold your breath now? - I'm waiting and have been waiting for a long time.
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