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  #1  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:25 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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  #2  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:49 PM
otto otto is offline
 
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Default Mickey is back

Cincinnatus returns to his plough.
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  #3  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:27 PM
themightypuck themightypuck is offline
 
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Default Re: Mickey is back

hi5
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  #4  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:09 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

In Bizarro world... Mickey was the winner, the Brown hordes were vanquished and teachers agree to work through their summer vacations and disband their union.

Last edited by graz; 06-16-2010 at 01:11 PM..
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:21 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

A telling slip... that tells it all.
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:55 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by graz View Post
LOL! I just dingalinked the same thing. Indeed: Freudian slip of the week.
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:56 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
LOL! I just dingalinked the same thing. Indeed: Freudian slip of the week.
[Added] Equally telling: it sailed right past Bob.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:34 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default CENSORSHIP!!!1!


(click to embiggen)
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:37 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: CENSORSHIP!!!1!

Or ... the new Bh.tv tagline?
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:36 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Subconscious motive.

Goat obsession.
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  #11  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:10 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Subconscious motive.

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op. cit.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:06 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Tripartite

No.

Like this:



If you want to continue your goal of delivering shockers to the voters, I mean.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:10 PM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

ADVICE FOR MICKEY'S FUTURE:

Move to South Carolina and run for the Democratic Senate nomination there.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:13 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by Markos View Post
ADVICE FOR MICKEY'S FUTURE:

Move to South Carolina and run for the Democratic Senate nomination there.
Looks like this idea is gaining momentum!
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:21 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Why does Mickey Kaus hate transparency?

For the record, search here for midlife crisis.

And see also, paying special attention to the "in reply to" link.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:29 PM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

Faced with what he's faced with, Obama will probably need to do quite a bit of triangulating. If Liberal Left Democrats want him to get beyond triangulation, they will probably need to pull off a miracle in the mid-term election and then give him a 60+ Liberal Left majority in the Senate and something similar in the House in 2012.
Liberal Left Democrats ought not make the Imagined Ideal the enemy of the Best Possible Reality.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Taking credit for prediction (duh!)

June 8, 11:46 p.m. On Mickey declaring victory.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:07 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Taking credit for prediction (duh!)

Another correct prediction, maybe, this time by Roger Ailes (scenario (d)).
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Taking credit for prediction (duh!)

Hmmm, what would appropriately honor our history as a symbol of Mickeyism analogously to how the Tea Party honors the Founding Fathers?

"Remember the Alamo" Or "Wake up America?"
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:59 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Taking credit for prediction (duh!)

$40,000 is a particularly unimpressive amount of money to have raised in a California Senate race, especially for someone who talks a fair amount about the Hollywood parties he gets invited to and attends.

I'm slightly shocked that Bob has never heard of Dave van Ronk, while Mickey has. It must be those Hollywood parties. But they're about the same age. Bob, you're such a square. Of course, I can no longer remember the name of the band they mentioned that tours to various cities and plays to 2,000 people in each, Reptilian Ectoplasm or something.

I saw Christina Aguilara for the first time while watching a replay of Lakers-Celtics today. She sang the national anthem. My main reaction was that she looked ghoulish, really unattractive.
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  #21  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:01 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Taking credit for prediction (duh!)

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
My main reaction was that she looked ghoulish, really unattractive.
almost as bad as the celtics, eh?

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  #22  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:42 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

I think the serious rifts and fissures that are continuing to grow between Obama and the left will be fascinating to observe with an outsiders perspective. Just for the sake of argument, please stipulate that these rifts exist; I realize not everyone is unhappy with Obama, and these stories may be overplayed, but I think it will be interesting as a window into the sociology of the liberal left in this country. What seems to be happening for the most part is that they're lashing out at Obama and laying most of the blame at his feet. This is very frustrating for those of us who had been saying for, oh, I don't know, 18 months that Barack Obama was essentially a snake oil salesman, and that he was selling people a bill of goods that, even if you agreed with much of the platform, would be impossible to deliver. So it would be nice to see a little self reflection on the left in the midst of this vitriol directed at Obama. I'm not holding my breath though.
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:58 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
[...] This is very frustrating for those of us who had been saying for, oh, I don't know, 18 months that Barack Obama was essentially a snake oil salesman, and that he was selling people a bill of goods that, even if you agreed with much of the platform, would be impossible to deliver. So it would be nice to see a little self reflection on the left in the midst of this vitriol directed at Obama. I'm not holding my breath though.
And well you should not. There is a difference between a president being a little too {centrist | cautious | incrementalist | hawkish | consensus-building | call it what you will} for one's taste and being a "snake oil salesman." That difference is pretty close to night and day, matter of fact. You're entitled to call him what you like, but that doesn't mean others, especially on the left, think there's anything to this characterization beyond the usual wingnut hyperbole.

It is also true that some of us, at least, who remain in the "approval" column have never thought a president got handed a magic wand on Inauguration Day. Some of us were and continue to be realistic about the checks and balances, to coin a phrase, that exist in our system. Some of us are more inclined to be pissed at the Congress and/or certain Dems and "Independents" in the Congress than we are at the President when it comes to passing legislation.

And finally, some of us understood his campaign rhetoric to be a mixture of goals and ideals, on top of some achievable objectives, and are not going to turn away from him merely because we're not yet all riding sparkle ponies and singing "Kumbaya."

So, breathe, I guess is the point.

[Added] And see Markos's post for more along these lines.

[Added2] I should have said above that another thing at least some of us on Teh Left are more realistic about than you might grasp is in understanding what a mess Obama was faced with when he came into office. Due in large part to his predecessor, although not exclusively -- there are any number of structural and ongoing problems with both our political and economic systems, and a lot of these became more apparent only once the first crisis flared up, two months before Election Day.

So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:40 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
And well you should not. There is a difference between a president being a little too {centrist | cautious | incrementalist | hawkish | consensus-building | call it what you will} for one's taste and being a "snake oil salesman." That difference is pretty close to night and day, matter of fact. You're entitled to call him what you like, but that doesn't mean others, especially on the left, think there's anything to this characterization beyond the usual wingnut hyperbole.

It is also true that some of us, at least, who remain in the "approval" column have never thought a president got handed a magic wand on Inauguration Day. Some of us were and continue to be realistic about the checks and balances, to coin a phrase, that exist in our system. Some of us are more inclined to be pissed at the Congress and/or certain Dems and "Independents" in the Congress than we are at the President when it comes to passing legislation.

And finally, some of us understood his campaign rhetoric to be a mixture of goals and ideals, on top of some achievable objectives, and are not going to turn away from him merely because we're not yet all riding sparkle ponies and singing "Kumbaya."

So, breathe, I guess is the point.

[Added] And see Markos's post for more along these lines.

[Added2] I should have said above that another thing at least some of us on Teh Left are more realistic about than you might grasp is in understanding what a mess Obama was faced with when he came into office. Due in large part to his predecessor, although not exclusively -- there are any number of structural and ongoing problems with both our political and economic systems, and a lot of these became more apparent only once the first crisis flared up, two months before Election Day.

So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
This is all well and good, and if you're going to latch onto the snake oil salesman phrase, then I'll just say I didn't put a lot of thought into that phrase. If you think that's overheated, then fine, I agree that there is a difference between Obama and the typical understanding of a snake oil salesman. I guess it boils down to whether or not you think Obama truly believed all his campaign rhetoric; the more you think he was just trying to elected, the more "snake oily" you probably think he is.

And of course you still think he's better than McCain/Palin, I'm guessing an overhwhelming majority of the people who voted for him agree with that statement. I wouldn't expect otherwise. But, it seems like in some cases, the rhetoric from the left directed at Obama doesn't square with that you're saying. They aren't simply calling him a centrist, there seems to be something deeper rooted in genuine anger. The disagreement would then become how prevalent you think this attitude is. I don't claim to know the answer, for the record.

And for those of you in the approval column who remain there out of a hardened realism regarding our political structures, well that's peachy keen. I don't really care about this group, to be honest, and that's not where the complaint was coming from. The annoyance comes from the feeling that the campaign was littered with people who were, to put it gently, pollyannish about Obama and his agenda/vision/capacity/etc...and now seemed to be shocked that we aren't riding ponies and singing kumbaya, or whatever it is you said. There seemed to be a certain savage satisfaction the left writ large took in pointing out every chance they got that they were vindicated in calling George Bush a moron/heartless bastard/incompetent person/warmonger/souless devourer of the children and the homeless and minorities...so I guess the right would simply like to enjoy some of that vindication now.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
There seemed to be a certain savage satisfaction the left writ large took in pointing out every chance they got that they were vindicated in calling George Bush a moron/heartless bastard/incompetent person/warmonger/souless devourer of the children and the homeless and minorities...so I guess the right would simply like to enjoy some of that vindication now.
You are vindicated in saying, along with the "left writ large," that Obama has failed to live up to his promise. But nothing will ever vindicate people like you for thinking that Bush was a successful president--- unless you absorb a large dose of snake oil.
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:37 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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You are vindicated in saying, along with the "left writ large," that Obama has failed to live up to his promise. But nothing will ever vindicate people like you for thinking that Bush was a successful president--- unless you absorb a large dose of snake oil.
I'm not sure what "people like you" is supposed to mean, I had just turned 12 when George W. Bush was elected for the first time.
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  #27  
Old 06-16-2010, 05:50 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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I'm not sure what "people like you" is supposed to mean, I had just turned 12 when George W. Bush was elected for the first time.
you mean in '04?
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2010, 06:03 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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you mean in '04?
Not sure if this is veiled sarcasm or a serious question but...no, I meant in 00.
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2010, 06:36 AM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Not sure if this is veiled sarcasm or a serious question but...no, I meant in 00.
Pretty sure Bong Bong's sarcasm was directed at the SCOTUS and not at a young fan of sub-.500 baseball teams.

Last edited by Whatfur; 06-17-2010 at 07:01 AM..
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2010, 09:40 AM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Pretty sure Bong Bong's sarcasm was directed at the SCOTUS and not at a young fan of sub-.500 baseball teams.
Well then I would recommend neither one of you quit your day jobs and pursue a career in comedy. I get the SCOTUS thing now (haha!) but if you're trying to get a rise out of me by pointing out that a team I support is bad this year, and that I was young during the 2000 election, then maybe you ought to try a bit harder, or hire someone else to write your zingers.
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  #31  
Old 06-17-2010, 10:04 AM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Well then I would recommend neither one of you quit your day jobs and pursue a career in comedy. I get the SCOTUS thing now (haha!) but if you're trying to get a rise out of me by pointing out that a team I support is bad this year, and that I was young during the 2000 election, then maybe you ought to try a bit harder, or hire someone else to write your zingers.
dude, you're still not getting it. the joke was at bush's expense, not yours. it had NOTHING to do with your age. (jeez, i'm only a little bit older than you)
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Well then I would recommend neither one of you quit your day jobs and pursue a career in comedy. I get the SCOTUS thing now (haha!) but if you're trying to get a rise out of me by pointing out that a team I support is bad this year, and that I was young during the 2000 election, then maybe you ought to try a bit harder, or hire someone else to write your zingers.
Bong Bong's post actually was pretty funny. Mine was merely an attempt to clarify it for you while giving you a little light-hearted ribbing. Like many Chicagoans you seem to want to take yourself a bit too seriously. Have you met "kez"? But yeah, will keep my day job...thanks.
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  #33  
Old 06-17-2010, 04:44 AM
Florian Florian is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
I'm not sure what "people like you" is supposed to mean, I had just turned 12 when George W. Bush was elected for the first time.
The "age of reason" (殟e de raison) in France is 7 years old....
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  #34  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:18 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
This is all well and good, and if you're going to latch onto the snake oil salesman phrase, then I'll just say I didn't put a lot of thought into that phrase. If you think that's overheated, then fine, I agree that there is a difference between Obama and the typical understanding of a snake oil salesman.
Okay.

Quote:
I guess it boils down to whether or not you think Obama truly believed all his campaign rhetoric; the more you think he was just trying to elected, the more "snake oily" you probably think he is.
As I said earlier, I think he believed his rhetoric was composed of goals and ideals in addition to promises he realistically thought he could keep. But, sure, as a smart politician, I have no doubt he was also always conscious of the need to do what it takes to get elected. You can't govern if you don't win, after all. Where this crosses the line is for everyone to evaluate individually, I suppose, once he or she stipulates that it is not possible to be 100% straightforward or consistent and win a national election in the US.

Quote:
And of course you still think he's better than McCain/Palin, I'm guessing an overhwhelming majority of the people who voted for him agree with that statement. I wouldn't expect otherwise. But, it seems like in some cases, the rhetoric from the left directed at Obama doesn't square with that you're saying. They aren't simply calling him a centrist, there seems to be something deeper rooted in genuine anger.
Sure, that's true. The idealist left has a long history of forming circular firing squads, and of refusing to acknowledge that their (and my, mostly) policy views are not only not always shared by the majority, but can easily be driven, through FUD, and during a recession especially, into a dishearteningly small minority position.

And of course, our media environment being what it is, we tend to see and hear those most willing to scream the loudest. It's not much of a news story to report on someone like me -- kinda phlegmatic, reasonably satisfied, willing to give him four years before passing final judgment -- as it is to report on someone howling that he is JUST LIKE BUSH!!!1! No, worse!!!1!

On the other hand, we (who would like to think of ourselves as pragmatic) always need some push from the idealists, as does the president, so I am not entirely unhappy with them, especially once we get past the banal sound bites. Many of the good aspects about our society started as ideas from "the radical left."

Quote:
The disagreement would then become how prevalent you think this attitude is. I don't claim to know the answer, for the record.
I don't know for sure, either. I would say that it's not trivial, but it's not especially huge, either. I base the latter on two things: Obama's obvious judgment that pandering to his lefty base doesn't have to be high on his priority list right now, and the steadiness of his approval ratings among Democrats; e.g.:


(Above: second image from here)


Quote:
And for those of you in the approval column who remain there out of a hardened realism regarding our political structures, well that's peachy keen. I don't really care about this group, to be honest, and that's not where the complaint was coming from. The annoyance comes from the feeling that the campaign was littered with people who were, to put it gently, pollyannish about Obama and his agenda/vision/capacity/etc...and now seemed to be shocked that we aren't riding ponies and singing kumbaya, or whatever it is you said.
Well, sure. Two things to remember, though. First, every new president attracts some of these people; i.e., those who think this time, the savior has arrived. And second, Obama (the candidate) got an unusually large number of people interested in politics and out to vote for the first time in their lives. So, you're bound to see some expressions of disappointment. Be a miracle if you didn't.

Quote:
There seemed to be a certain savage satisfaction the left writ large took in pointing out every chance they got that they were vindicated in calling George Bush a moron/heartless bastard/incompetent person/warmonger/souless devourer of the children and the homeless and minorities...so I guess the right would simply like to enjoy some of that vindication now.
Well, as I have said many times before, putting "just like" between two things does not close the case that they are in fact identical. I grant that Bush provoked a lot of vitriol; on the other hand, I continue to be as sure as I am of anything that he deserved just about all of it. Guy was a terrible president, a lazy mofo, and a phony, and he screwed up royally in a number of significant areas. He was an embarrassment to me, as an American. Your views may differ, on whether Bush was all that bad, or whether Obama is not all that bad even if you disagree with his policy positions, but I can't even come close to accepting either of those positions as intellectually responsible.
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  #35  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:44 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
And well you should not. There is a difference between a president being a little too {centrist | cautious | incrementalist | hawkish | consensus-building | call it what you will} for one's taste and being a "snake oil salesman." That difference is pretty close to night and day, matter of fact. You're entitled to call him what you like, but that doesn't mean others, especially on the left, think there's anything to this characterization beyond the usual wingnut hyperbole.
on civil liberties it is completely accurate, otherwise i agree with you.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...-my-authoritah


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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
damn it all, i agree with that too.
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  #36  
Old 06-16-2010, 05:00 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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on civil liberties it is completely accurate, otherwise i agree with you.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...-my-authoritah
I won't say Obama hasn't disappointed me in some of these areas, but it is reasonable to ask, at least in some of the particulars, how you would have had him do differently. For example, on closing Gitmo: not only did the GOP immediately go into full fearmongering mode at the thought of the detainees being moved to American prisons, but far worse, the Dems in Congress almost unanimously caved to that as well. As far as I can tell, the only way to get around the spinelessness of the Congressional Dems here would have been to issue an executive order. Now, maybe you can say, "Exactly! That's what he should have done!," but I would remind you that another of his campaign promises, as far as doing things differently from Bush, was to work within the system, and not to go all unitary president.

I'm less willing to make a case in Obama's defense on some of the other particulars, except to say that another of the sad realities of our system is that the president, despite being Commander-in-Chief, cannot make our entire military/intelligence apparatus immediately carry out his every wish. Therefore, I could imagine (would like to think that) Obama has made some of these decisions I don't care for out of a sense that he's got to give some to get some, that he's got to pick battles, that he can't afford to alienate the military completely if he hopes to get anything else accomplished, etc.

But, in the end, I agree with you: this is one of the more disappointing areas of his presidency for me, so far, too.

Quote:
Quote:
So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
damn it all, i agree with that too.
Yep. It does kind of suck, in some ways, doesn't it?
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2010, 07:14 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
I've been very critical of Obama and the Dem. pseudo-majority Congress.

A big problem for thinking people on the left, however, is how to express displeasure, dissent and disapproval, knowing you will be arm-twisted into voting for Obama himself in 2012 and supporting a slew of Dem. candidates far worse (less liberal) in Congressional races in 2010 and 2012.

I am not a Dem. zombie, however. I am completely open to voting for pro-peace and human rights Republicans, if I could find any. I see nothing inherent to Republican philosophy that requires its candidates to be pro-war. But look at their ticket. McCain was almost as crazy as Cheney (Ba-ba-bam Iran) and Palin is surely way worse than either of them.

Show me the national Republican candidate in 2012 who shares Minnesota Republican Anna Janek's view, and I'll consider voting against Obama:

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Only Congress can declare wars. Congress has no authority to delegate this responsibility. We must end all undeclared wars of aggression and resolve to never again intervene in the internal affairs of foreign countries. We must not appoint ourselves as policemen of the world nor engage in nation building. Its time to bring all our troops home and close our 800 military bases in over 130 foreign countries, thus saving our taxpayers over $1 trillion a year. We should, with humility and respect, encourage commerce and cultural exchange with other nations, but refrain from entangling alliances. Aid of any sort to foreign countries can only come from individuals or non-governmental organizations, never to be a function of government, no matter how benevolent the cause. Government has no charitable responsibility.
Obama started off for me as a peace candidate with a grade of 80% (Dennis Kucinich got a perfect 100%). Since the escalation in Afghanistan and the rest of his hawkery I've dropped Obama to a D- 60%. However, I know of no serious Republican (except Ron Paul) whose grade is above 40%.
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  #38  
Old 06-17-2010, 01:12 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
It is also true that some of us, at least, who remain in the "approval" column have never thought a president got handed a magic wand on Inauguration Day. Some of us were and continue to be realistic about the checks and balances, to coin a phrase, that exist in our system. Some of us are more inclined to be pissed at the Congress and/or certain Dems and "Independents" in the Congress than we are at the President when it comes to passing legislation.
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And of course, our media environment being what it is, we tend to see and hear those most willing to scream the loudest. It's not much of a news story to report on someone like me -- kinda phlegmatic, reasonably satisfied, willing to give him four years before passing final judgment -- as it is to report on someone howling that he is JUST LIKE BUSH!!!1! No, worse!!!1!
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So, at the end of the day, I still consider him far better than the thought of McCain/Palin, and I still can't imagine voting against him in 2012, given any even remotely plausible options.
damn it all, i agree with that too.
Yep. It does kind of suck, in some ways, doesn't it?
Tying the above, and more, together, Newell get serious for a while, and as is usually the case in these situations, his post deserves to be [strike]stolen[/strike] reposted in full.

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C'mon, Give Barack Obama Some Credit For Making BP Pay

The weak, spineless worst president ever, whose abysmal speech yesterday eliminated any hope for American prosperity for countless generations, is such an evil corporatist that he's... found a way to make BP pay claims. Will he ever "show leadership"?

The reaction to Barack Obama's mediocre speech last night revealed one of the more annoying trends in parts of the Left: you're less vulnerable bashing the shit out of him at all times than trying to defend him, or even consider his motives.

It was disappointing that he didn't acknowledge the environmental need or the economic merits of pricing carbon in the wishy-washy second half of his speech, absolutely. The public has, sadly, grown more skeptical if not outright dismissive of the need to address climate change and the transition to an advanced, high-tech, clean energy economy something only achievable through carbon pricing, be it a cap-and-trade system or a carbon tax. This is understandable most people are too busy worrying about unemployment right now but the president can't let our carbon problem disappear entirely from the public arena. A line or two would've been nice!

But there are not and will not be enough votes in the Senate this year to pass an energy bill with a strong carbon pricing mechanism, and that's why he didn't bring it up or "set markers." This was the takeaway from his speech. You can ask him to "lead" more, but the votes will not show up in the Senate. They're not there. He cannot twist enough arms. It would go down in flames and ultimately be a major misread of the public mood, in an election year. The same people would be calling him "weak." This is the situation.

So if Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, Howard Fineman and pretty much every other liberal pundit who freaked the fuck out over the quality or modesty of the president's 20-minute television speech last night would like to help the situation, they should direct more ire at the Senate. That is where people write laws. And they don't have the collective will or numbers right now to write a good law pricing carbon.

But what of today's White House agreement with BP for it to set up a $20 billion, independent escrow fund to pay claims, cancel its dividends for at least the rest of 2010, and set up another fund compensating oil workers for lost wages? (And that $20 billion is not a cap, either it can, and probably will, go up.) Those seem like pretty strong results and displays of leadership! BP probably wouldn't have conceded its hand like this, either, if it thought the White House wouldn't try more aggressive legal ways of getting them to pay up were they to refuse.

This fund is going to help many, many people along the Gulf Coast, immediately. That doesn't change the fact that Barack Obama doesn't "act angrily," like a clown, for the personal amusement of pundits, but it's something.

And look at how crazy Minnesota GOP Rep. Michele Bachmann is reacting!

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The president just called for creating a fund that would be administered by outsiders, which would be more of a redistribution-of-wealth fund. And now it appears like we'll be looking at one more gateway for more government control, more money to government
Thanks for the confirmation, Michele. Now we're making progress.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:26 AM
listener listener is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Tying the above, and more, together, Newell get serious for a while, and as is usually the case in these situations, his post deserves to be [strike]stolen[/strike] reposted in full.
Thanks for that useful bit of perspective.
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  #40  
Old 06-17-2010, 02:04 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Hold Your Head High (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)

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Originally Posted by listener View Post
Thanks for that useful bit of perspective.
y/w. Glad you found it so.
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