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  #1  
Old 09-03-2008, 12:36 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Palinpalooza

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  #2  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:03 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Palinpalooza

Smoke em if ya got um
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:51 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Palinpalooza

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Originally Posted by graz View Post
And don't forget to field strip it when you finish.

John
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  #4  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:10 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Palinpalooza

Eli coins a phrase
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:15 PM
PaulL PaulL is offline
 
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Default Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
Quote:
The chairwoman of an Alaskan political party that advocates a vote on the state's secession from the union said Tuesday that she had been mistaken when she said Gov. Sarah Palin was a member of the group.

A front-page story in The New York Times on Tuesday and articles in other news media reported that Ms. Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party for two years in the 1990's.
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:24 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by PaulL View Post
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
Her husband was a member, she created a video in support of the organization. She may support the principle of succession. We will get the chance to find out. Oh wait... locked down media control is in effect.
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by PaulL View Post
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
Ha Ha! how does it feel to get a dose of smmmeeeeaaar!
Did you watch her taped address to the AIP convention? Can you say super friendly? Why in hell would she take the time to make that video, and give those fringies the time of day? This is not over, any more than the creepy Obama smears are..
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:56 PM
PaulL PaulL is offline
 
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

Great job trying to move the goalposts.
The Heather/progressives denounce Palin as a member of an extremist party and when it turns out they were wrong. They scream But she has ties to the AIP.

As Professor Juan Cole might say: “It is one of those hoaxes that bespeaks a reality.”


Quote:
locked down media control is in effect.
Only if Bill Ayres is in charge of the AIP.
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:07 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

Are you confident that all and everything we need to know about her politics and associations is available?
Do you agree that we (citizens) have a right to examine the record?
Are you going to hold us (the peeps again) responsible for overzealous journalism?
In regard to your point. The initial reports placed her as a member. A later retraction by the AIP secretary was at fault for the overstatement. I feel your pain.

Last edited by graz; 09-03-2008 at 02:15 PM..
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by graz View Post
I feel your pain.
Me too! owww!
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2008, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by PaulL View Post
Great job trying to move the goalposts.
Thanks! But as a member of the smear party (I assume?), you probably know, damage done! And it will never go away...
I despise this crap actually, but I don't have a problem giving back some the faux sanctimony of the GOP. You guys have been hammering the Obama's, now it's your turn.
Do the thing where the "conservative" turns on a dime from aggressor to victim, or did we just witness that?
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Xelgaex Xelgaex is offline
 
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulL View Post
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
Isn't it possible that she simply hadn't seen the corrections yet? The first correction to the story I found was on Mother Jones around four o'clock the same day as the diavlog was recorded.

Maybe there's something earlier I didn't see, but I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelgaex View Post
Isn't it possible that she simply hadn't seen the corrections yet? The first correction to the story I found was on Mother Jones around four o'clock the same day as the diavlog was recorded.

Maybe there's something earlier I didn't see, but I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.
I agree. The first time I saw it corrected was last night by Olbermann, at about 11:30 ET.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:59 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin

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Originally Posted by PaulL View Post
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
You're getting waaaay ahead of yourself, Paul.

It's true that the NYT's source gave them information that the source later retracted. So a correction was necessary for information from that one source. But there are a number of other people who say that Palin was a member of the fringe secessionist party. And there is no dispute that her husband was, for years, a member of the anti-American, Christian-theocracy-advocating, far-right extremist group.

Ask yourself, Paul, how would the lunatic base (and majority) of the Republican Party and their media enablers be reacting right now if Michelle Obama took even a glance at an anti-American Party like the one embraced by the Palin family for many years?

I think we both know the answer to that: There would be a full-fledged media shit storm that would not end until the election.

Palin and the Alaska Independence Party
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:22 PM
Markos Markos is offline
 
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Default Re: Palinpalooza

I think McCain must have known about the daughter's pregnancy beforehand, because the only way he could not have known would have been if Sarah Palin would have intentionally neglected to mention it in their lengthy meeting in Arizona. Because she would have had to have known it was something McCain needed to know. And if she had concealed it from McCain until after the announcement, I think McCain - (who is known for not being good at concealing his emotions) - would have been enraged when he found out.
And we have not seen any evidence of McCain trying to conceal rage toward his running mate. We've only seen a love fest between them.
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:32 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Juno/Juneau

Eli: You employed an interesting pop culture reference, but it is off in an important way. Juno (not named after the city) has no intention of keeping the child or marrying her teen dalliance. What did conservatives support other than the fact that she didn't abort? Granted, that is no small thing... but it doesn't align with the "family values" voters.
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:43 PM
Gordonggekko Gordonggekko is offline
 
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

Actually, it does. They want people to choose life, through marriage and keeping the child, or adoption.
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2008, 01:52 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

I should have kept my focus on Eli's misuse of the Juno example. It wasn't intended to be a definitive point.
I agree with your point that adoption is in keeping with a family values agenda.

What is all to conveniently glossed over is the merits of abstinence only versus sex ed that includes actual sex.
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  #19  
Old 09-03-2008, 04:53 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

On the Bristol Palin issue/discussion, for once in my life I actually agree with Byron York:

“If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant by a tough-talking black kid, my guess is if that they all appeared onstage at a Democratic convention and the delegates were cheering wildly, a number of conservatives might be discussing the issue of dysfunctional black families.”

I'll take it a step further. "If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant"...you don't even need to finish the sentence. It would be the ONLY thing being talked about on the news 24/7. It would speak to his family values, his religion, his character, his judgement etc., etc.

Last edited by uncle ebeneezer; 09-03-2008 at 05:04 PM..
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  #20  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:20 PM
thouartgob thouartgob is offline
 
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post

I'll take it a step further. "If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant"...you don't even need to finish the sentence. It would be the ONLY thing being talked about on the news 24/7. It would speak to his family values, his religion, his character, his judgement etc., etc.
Imagine the horror of the anti-choice crowd if Michelle waited hours to go to a hospital after her "water" started to leak ( late term abortion attempt ) or Michelle in a picture with a high powered rifle ( Mrs. Ayers )
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2008, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

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Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer View Post
On the Bristol Palin issue/discussion, for once in my life I actually agree with Byron York:

“If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant by a tough-talking black kid, my guess is if that they all appeared onstage at a Democratic convention and the delegates were cheering wildly, a number of conservatives might be discussing the issue of dysfunctional black families.”

I'll take it a step further. "If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant"...you don't even need to finish the sentence. It would be the ONLY thing being talked about on the news 24/7. It would speak to his family values, his religion, his character, his judgement etc., etc.
Yes, this is what a good partisan does: he keeps telling himself, "The other side would do THIS too" and continues his devolution into mindless rancor.

Perhaps Obama should be discussing the issue of dysfunctional black (and white) families, since that gets to the heart of something our politics today ignores in favor of superficial fluff like Palin's daughter (you remember the weekend of infamy when leftists all over the Internet went berserk about this asinine subject) or Obama's lovely family.

Nope, instead let's keep it all very dumb and very kneejerk. It shows what intelligent freethinkers you all are! After all, intelligent freethinkers love to read off scripted talking points for the edification of the vast audience of nobody who is listening.
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2008, 02:07 PM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Juno/Juneau

I would hardly say that Palin's underage, unwed pregnant daughter is "superficial fluff." This is a woman who advocates abstinance-only education and opposes having children learn about birth-control and std prevention. Her daughter is an example of the risks of that sortof approach in a world where, you know, teenagers have sex. Palin takes a head-in-the-sand approach towards science, preferring instead to base her positions on her religious beliefs. The situation with her daughter is entirely relevant to those issues. As another commentor pointed out, not only did Bristol risk pregnancy by having unprotected sex, but she risked stds that can have much worse implications (increased likelihood of cervical cancer for HPV and death in the case of HIV.) These are the risks we take when we decide it's better to have our children not know (or not feel comfortable) taking a simple measure that could save their lives (putting on a condom.)

I commend Obama and Biden for both saying that the Bristol situation is "family business" and that they didn't think it appropriate to use as an attack on Palin's mothering (a classy move that no Rep has acknowledged except for maybe Huckabee) but that doesn't change the fact that the larger implications of abstinence-only policies are completely relevant. Should Palin find herself president, she wants to deny children the knowledge to avoid the situation that can be seen in her very own press box. That is something that should be talked about whether she likes it or not.

If the GOP had been happy to keep such "family business" off limits (Bill Clinton's affairs, John McCain's alleged baby etc.) I might take more seriously an argument that your side sincerely cares about keeping personal business out of bounds.
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  #23  
Old 09-04-2008, 02:55 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Child abuse

Quote:
If the GOP had been happy to keep such "family business" off limits (Bill Clinton's affairs, John McCain's alleged baby etc.) I might take more seriously an argument that your side sincerely cares about keeping personal business out of bounds.
Yes. The Republican propaganda machine is using the Palin kids to energize the goofy Santa Sarah fable.

What impact will turning those kids into an international spectacle have on their futures? The Palin family psychodrama seems destined to drive all of its members nuts.

One thing is for Obama to shlep his daughters along to the convention to ga-ga at daddy on the gigantic television screen; quite another is for Palin to pull out three child props in three days: the preggo 17-year-old, the Down Syndrome infant (Is all that screaming at a convention good for a child's nervous system?) and the 18-year-old adolescent patriot in Iraq.

The other two kids must wonder what's in store for them and how they will be expected the follow their siblings' miraculous acts.

The off-mike Noonan conversation yesterday had them nailed: this is family "narrative" politics, and the characters (quite possibly including Palin herself) will get fucked in the end.

McCain is playing the electorate for fools with the Palin gimmick -- not because she isn't qualified. She well may be qualified. But instead of having her run on her qualifications and talent, they're running and exploiting the children.
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  #24  
Old 09-04-2008, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Child abuse

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Yes. The Republican propaganda machine is using the Palin kids to energize the goofy Santa Sarah fable.

What impact will turning those kids into an international spectacle have on their futures? The Palin family psychodrama seems destined to drive all of its members nuts.

One thing is for Obama to shlep his daughters along to the convention to ga-ga at daddy on the gigantic television screen; quite another is for Palin to pull out three child props in three days: the preggo 17-year-old, the Down Syndrome infant (Is all that screaming at a convention good for a child's nervous system?) and the 18-year-old adolescent patriot in Iraq.

The other two kids must wonder what's in store for them and how they will be expected the follow their siblings' miraculous acts.

The off-mike Noonan conversation yesterday had them nailed: this is family "narrative" politics, and the characters (quite possibly including Palin herself) will get fucked in the end.

McCain is playing the electorate for fools with the Palin gimmick -- not because she isn't qualified. She well may be qualified. But instead of having her run on her qualifications and talent, they're running and exploiting the children.
Tough room. So 'cute' is in, and real-life teens need not apply. Palin's cunning genius now comes to fruition.

You might do well to show more concern for the Obama girls. Track and Bristol's characters have been largely formed; Sasha and Malia may grow up to be quite affected by being in the media spotlight from such young ages.

As far as the baby's nervous system, infants go to sleep in the presence of sensory overload.
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  #25  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:01 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Child abuse

Quote:
As far as the baby's nervous system, infants go to sleep in the presence of sensory overload.
Would you take your infant to Nascar? Would you expose your infant to a gazillion camera flashes?

Quote:
Palin's cunning genius now comes to fruition.
Also, note, I am not blaming Palin. They made her an offer that few people could refuse. I'm blaming her handlers.

She gets blame for letting her teenage join the Army to fight in Iraq. The exposure, however, is Rovian Republican myth-making and hypocrisy.
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  #26  
Old 09-04-2008, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Child abuse

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Would you take your infant to Nascar? Would you expose your infant to a gazillion camera flashes?
Nascar involves lengthy sun exposure, and I'm guessing much higher decibels than an RNC hall. As I said, and as you saw, the child slept through it.
Quote:
Also, note, I am not blaming Palin. They made her an offer that few people could refuse. I'm blaming her handlers.
Why are you infantilizing her? From what Kleiman told McArdle today, girlfriend is a playa. For all we know, she knowingly misled McCain.
Quote:
She gets blame for letting her teenage join the Army to fight in Iraq. The exposure, however, is Rovian Republican myth-making and hypocrisy.
She occupies a completely different reality than me. I have a 20 year-old son, and the level and type of faith it takes for her to be so complacent, is beyond me.
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  #27  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:25 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Re: Child abuse

Quote:
Nascar involves lengthy sun exposure, and I'm guessing much higher decibels than an RNC hall. As I said, and as you saw, the child slept through it.
You may be right. Babies are very resilient. Still, I would never have taken an infant to an event like that.

Quote:
She occupies a completely different reality than me. I have a 20 year-old son, and the level and type of faith it takes for her to be so complacent, is beyond me.
I have two daughters that age, and I've met several parents who lost children in Iraq, including Cindy Sheehan, who spoke at our junior college. My daughter's live-in boyfriend is deploying in March for a second Iraq tour (Navy). So yeah, Palin is like the Iraq Mom from outer space.

My other daughter asked me yesterday, "How come they don't have any people of color at the RNC?" I told her to keep looking. Some will turn up. She said, "They're all old creepy white guys."

I guess Sarah changed all that. Not all old or guys anymore. Still creepy though.
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  #28  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:22 PM
Wonderment Wonderment is offline
 
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Default Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

It's obvious to everyone that teenagers have sex.

I'm sure I'm the only person who posts on Bheads who has actually had unprotected sex, but hard as it is believe, it's not entirely unheard of among homo sapiens sapiens.

In other words, even the best of parents who provide the best sex education may have to deal with a pregnant teenage daughter. Sex happens.

The Palins are, needless to say, right to embrace and support their daughter and the boyfriend in their pregnancy and to celebrate the upcoming birth of their grandchild. Sure, it's not easy to have a kid at 17, but the Palins certainly seem to be the kind of people who make the best of the hand that was dealt them.

Not so good on the parenting of the other kid, however.

Track Palin was recruited out of high school and "on track" for Iraq just a few months after his 18th birthday.

Typically, when high school students sign up right after graduation, they have been seduced and propagandized at age 15, 16 or 17 by predatory recruiters on high school campuses.

In fact, they often sign DEP (delayed enlistment program) contracts as minors and are subjected to steady indoctrination and social coercion while they remain in high school. The Pentagon spends billions annually on marketing war to children.

Counseling an impressionable young boy to go to war is reprehensible. I hope Sarah P. was not complicit in this, and I hope she doesn't end up like Cindy Sheehan and so many other moms, guilt-ridden for not having done more to keep their children out of Bush's war of aggression.
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2008, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Wonderment View Post
Counseling an impressionable young boy to go to war is reprehensible. I hope Sarah P. was not complicit in this, and I hope she doesn't end up like Cindy Sheehan and so many other moms, guilt-ridden for not having done more to keep their children out of Bush's war of aggression.
As well-off as they are, I think it's more likely that Mom was whispering in his other ear about being God's little soldier in the Holy Land.
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:17 PM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

Yes, I also think it's safe to assume whatever we want about those we oppose politically. You just know it's true!
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  #31  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Exeus99 View Post
Yes, I also think it's safe to assume whatever we want about those we oppose politically. You just know it's true!
I said that I think it's more likely, not that I know. Reading through posts twice might help.
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  #32  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

Yeah, on a second read, that assumption is still there. Your conclusion doesn't state that you're CERTAIN, but neither did I say you did. The Palins are well-off and (very) Christian, and on that basis you've concluded that it's likely Mrs. Palin was "whispering in her [son's] other ear about being God's little soldier in the Holy Land."
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  #33  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

Quote:
Yes, I also think it's safe to assume whatever we want about those we oppose politically. You just know it's true!
I don't know what the problem is, but chill. You're the one who made the false accusation.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:50 PM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

Oh but I liked your imagery, a mother whispering inducements to a righteous crusade into her impressionable child's ear. It's a shame that it's not based on anything other than your assumptions about their (respective) characters based on their religious belief and wealth, but it's quite evocative.
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:52 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Exeus99 View Post
Oh but I liked your imagery, a mother whispering inducements to a righteous crusade into her impressionable child's ear. It's a shame that it's not based on anything other than your assumptions about their (respective) characters based on their religious belief and wealth, but it's quite evocative.
Do you know any Republicans?
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2008, 08:59 PM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

I do! I know religious Republicans, pro-business country-club Republicans, two atheist Republicans, one homosexual Republicans, a few minority-Republicans...oh the Republicans I know!
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  #37  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:07 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Exeus99 View Post
I do! I know religious Republicans, pro-business country-club Republicans, two atheist Republicans, one homosexual Republicans, a few minority-Republicans...oh the Republicans I know!
LOL! Good answer.
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Exeus99 View Post
Oh but I liked your imagery, a mother whispering inducements to a righteous crusade into her impressionable child's ear. It's a shame that it's not based on anything other than your assumptions about their (respective) characters based on their religious belief and wealth, but it's quite evocative.
Well, now we're getting somewhere. Try it without the snark next time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:09 PM
Exeus99 Exeus99 is offline
 
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

Listen, look, let's say arguendo that Palin's a loon-a religious war-loving loon. Based on this and the fact that her son enlisted in the armed services, your statement that this was likely due to her "whispering" in his ear is still an assumption without evidence. Maybe he's crazy too, crazy like a Palin, and thus wouldn't need any such whispered persuasion! Maybe he was tired of the snow and wanted a free ticket to some place with lots of sand--although it's my understanding that Alaska's not completely covered in snow. Is it likely he just hates the cold now? Some people don't like the cold, some of them are surely in Alaska (where it's cold), so if someone makes a commitment that will require them to leave the Alaskan cold for much warmer temps., is their assumed dislike of the cold the likely reason?

Based on the type of people they are, what assumptions can we likely make about the leading Democratic pols?
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  #40  
Old 09-04-2008, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Make love not war -- the other Palin kid

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Originally Posted by Exeus99 View Post
Listen, look, let's say arguendo that Palin's a loon-a religious war-loving loon. Based on this and the fact that her son enlisted in the armed services, your statement that this was likely due to her "whispering" in his ear is still an assumption without evidence. Maybe he's crazy too, crazy like a Palin, and thus wouldn't need any such whispered persuasion! Maybe he was tired of the snow and wanted a free ticket to some place with lots of sand--although it's my understanding that Alaska's not completely covered in snow. Is it likely he just hates the cold now? Some people don't like the cold, some of them are surely in Alaska (where it's cold), so if someone makes a commitment that will require them to leave the Alaskan cold for much warmer temps., is their assumed dislike of the cold the likely reason?
My original response was to Wonderment's concern that the boy had been seduced by the romance of the recruiter's rhetoric, whereas I said Mom might tend to stress the Just War aspect. My take was based on the vid, and my knowledge of how some evangelicals think, re Armageddon/Holy Land. You are correct, I was reading into Palin's influence, but given the video, I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

Quote:
Based on the type of people they are, what assumptions can we likely make about the leading Democratic pols?
That's what this is all about. My one piddly vote, that I'm agonizing over, is going to be based on reading, listening, judging, and assessing what the candidate will really do when in office. It's such a crap shoot.

So rest assured, I'm making just as many 'calls' about Obama and Biden. I await your critiques.

Actually, I'm a big fan of snark. Just not fond of being unfairly judged.
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