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  #41  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:06 PM
brucds brucds is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

whburgess: "I think Social Security is as radical.
Medicare is as radical.
Unemployment Benefits is as radical."

You're a fucking lunatic. And radical...
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:16 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucds View Post
whburgess: "I think Social Security is as radical.
Medicare is as radical.
Unemployment Benefits is as radical."

You're a fucking lunatic. And radical...
You're a poop faced poo poo head!!
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:23 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucds View Post
whburgess: "I think Social Security is as radical.
Medicare is as radical.
Unemployment Benefits is as radical."

You're a fucking lunatic. And radical...
You're taking him out of context. I had the same initial reaction, but then remembered that whburgess isn't usually the kind of libertarian lunatic that you'd expect to hear that out of. If you look back, he was arguing with Badhat about whether or not the ACA is radical, and he made the (correct!) point that the ACA is much more modest and structured to work within existing institutions than social security, medicare, etc. etc..
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:24 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Because children sometimes, but aren't always, capable of that subtlety of thought. I know when I was a child, if my father had told me "Son, do not drive the car, but come let me show you how to do it safely just in case you do" I would have taken it that he preferred my not driving it, but wouldn't be all that surprised or upset if I did. My chances of driving the car would have gone up significantly.
Interesting. When I was ten my father gave me a .22 and taught me how to use it. He also forbade me from ever using it without his supervision. It sat, along with a box of shells in the corner of my room, unused without his supervision, for all of my childhood. The chances of my using it without his supervision went from zero to zero.
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  #45  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:26 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple View Post
Because we say so? You and what army?

I don't care if you call me a bigot. I've long passed the point where I cared about what leftists think about me. Even many years ago, when I only denounced Islamic radicals (which I thought were radicals, as opposed to mainstream followers of Muhammad), leftists called me a bigot and an Islamophobe. So it doesn't really matter what one says, when one's opinions are inconvenient to the leftist, the leftist will call one an Islamophobe and a bigot.
Me and my army.

I don't think you're a bigot. If there were somehow a way to properly vet and clear all Muslims for threat of terrorism and extreme religious beliefs, I'd assume you'd be fine with them living here. And it's under this assumption I've defended some of your opinions. The extent to which we disagree probably lies in the types of policies you might like to see. And that's probably where other people object to your opinions, in that those policies would lead to or encourage bigoted circumstances.

I am curious as to why and how a person can be so singularly motivated against radical Islam. Do you have a blog?


Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
Interesting. When I was ten my father gave me a .22 and taught me how to use it. He also forbade me from ever using it without his supervision. It sat, along with a box of shells in the corner of my room, unused without his supervision, for all of my childhood. The chances of my using it without his supervision went from zero to zero.
So, can you guys buy guns in Chicago now?
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Last edited by sugarkang; 08-21-2011 at 11:34 PM..
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  #46  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:30 PM
eeeeeeeli eeeeeeeli is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dman View Post
Does Obama deserve to be re-elected? Civil liberties, really, that's what's most important, 2011-2012? I'm sure a third party candidate will be coming along that will suit your needs, and the other 0.0009% of voters.
This was my thought too. Very odd. Although as a libertarian, you're probably pretty used to being able to die on the hill of randomness.
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  #47  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:34 PM
eeeeeeeli eeeeeeeli is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama deserves to be reelected (but I won't be voting for him)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
I probably won't be voting for Obama for the exact reasons Adam gives as to what is most important in voting for President. A person is voting for a party when they vote for president, and should vote for the party that best represents their values. (Or, as in my case, against the party that least represents them)
This pretty much sums up how I feel too. Especially with the president, who has to try and be so many things to so many people. Remember, these people are called "representatives" for a reason.
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  #48  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:39 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
Interesting. When I was ten my father gave me a .22 and taught me how to use it. He also forbade me from ever using it without his supervision. It sat, along with a box of shells in the corner of my room, unused without his supervision, for all of my childhood. The chances of my using it without his supervision went from zero to zero.
Did he ever instruct you in how to go about using it without his supervision? You know, just in case you ever did?


Do you think some parents only allow their kids to have sex under their direct supervision, and do you think this would as likely keep kids from doing it on their own as was the case with you, your dad, and your .22?

Last edited by whburgess; 08-21-2011 at 11:42 PM..
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  #49  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:43 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucds View Post
whburgess: "I think Social Security is as radical.
Medicare is as radical.
Unemployment Benefits is as radical."

You're a fucking lunatic. And radical...
At some point within the last two months we all decided to stop posting messages like this. This is the only place in the entire internet where reasonable discussion can take place. And we thank you for your support.
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  #50  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:58 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucds View Post
whburgess: "I think Social Security is as radical.
Medicare is as radical.
Unemployment Benefits is as radical."

You're a fucking lunatic. And radical...
OH YEAH? WELL YOU'RE A GIANT DOO DOO HEAD.
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  #51  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:03 AM
Diane1976 Diane1976 is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

I haven't listened yet, but I'm looking forward to the diavlog.

On the subject of whether Obama deserves to be re-elected, of course he does. I don't think many, if any, presidents took over in worse circumstances. Yes, I wish he didn't so much perpetuate Bush's policies on the treatment of war prisoners, which I consider revolting. But, overall, he did the best that could be expected with the situation he got, and he restored the faith of much of the world in the US. That's no small thing.
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  #52  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:31 AM
uncle ebeneezer uncle ebeneezer is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Presuming that Conor was NOT a John Kerry voter in 2004 I would love to hear his reasoning for why George W Bush deserved to be president at that point. Especially given the importance Conor puts on wars, torture and the like.
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  #53  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:57 AM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple View Post
What the most wretched of men believe is of no concern to me, especially considering the fact that it is always something extremely stupid and unreasonable. I concern myself with the reasonable objections of reasonable and intelligent people.
I really do not understand this extreme objection towards civilized Western people.

Bill Maher does this type of thing where he gets red in the face about American Christians....and it seems as though he does it in order to be able to attack Islam as well, without being attacked by his fellow travellers.
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  #54  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:22 AM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
So, can you guys buy guns in Chicago now?
No. I have lived in Chicago for eight years. I grew up in rural Canada.
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  #55  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:25 AM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Did he ever instruct you in how to go about using it without his supervision? You know, just in case you ever did?

Do you think some parents only allow their kids to have sex under their direct supervision, and do you think this would as likely keep kids from doing it on their own as was the case with you, your dad, and your .22?
I am not sure I understand your first question. The use of a gun is the same regardless of whether it's supervised or not.

It wasn't being taught how to use the gun that prevented me from using it, but my dad telling me not to.
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  #56  
Old 08-22-2011, 08:42 AM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
No. I have lived in Chicago for eight years. I grew up in rural Canada.
Maybe you should pop a cap in Rahm's ass.
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  #57  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:16 AM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Ah, the old bait and switch..

Mr. Friedersdorf pulls the classic "Heads I win, tails Republicans lose" maneuver. He faults Perry for allegedly not having real convictions. But his crocodile tears for conservatives that are bound to be betrayed by a Perry presidency. If Perry hews to a conservative line he gets lambasted for being a rigid ideologue; if he shows a willingness to bend to political reality, he's a mercenary.

This I take as a sign that people on the left are really, really nervous about this guy.

I should say I have no idea who Perry is, stuck here in the Orient. Huntsman was my favorite, and before him Mitch Daniels. I.e., I'm great at picking people who are sure to lose...

Oh, I guess Friedersdorf is claiming to be a libertarian now... Well, I doubt he'll push the button for the Republican in any case.
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  #58  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:27 AM
apple
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I don't think you're a bigot. If there were somehow a way to properly vet and clear all Muslims for threat of terrorism and extreme religious beliefs, I'd assume you'd be fine with them living here.
It depends on what you mean by "Muslim". If it is just a cultural Muslim, who does not really believe in the tenets of orthodox Islam, then I have no problem with that person. I know someone who calls himself a Muslim, but who is basically a deist who doesn't consume pork or alcohol. I have no problem with him at all, and I do not consider such people to be Muslims, but I do have a problem with people (including non-Muslims) who have any regard for the pedophile prophet, the Koran, Islamic tradition, the Ummah, the hadith, Islamic theology, or any of the other vile outgrowths of Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
And it's under this assumption I've defended some of your opinions. The extent to which we disagree probably lies in the types of policies you might like to see. And that's probably where other people object to your opinions, in that those policies would lead to or encourage bigoted circumstances.
The debate almost never reaches the point, yet leftist are always at the ready to trot out their favorite words and non-words: bigot, Islamophobe. To their credit, most leftists on this board have not called me a racist (with the notable exception of ohreally, who this time decided to use the word "bigot" instead, for reasons unknown), so there's at least a sliver of rationality in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
I am curious as to why and how a person can be so singularly motivated against radical Islam. Do you have a blog?
What's a blog? Do you mean a place where people self-importantly ventilate their uninformed and mostly stupid opinions, as if anyone else is interested in them? No, I definitely don't have one of those.

As for me being singularly motivated, I don't think that's true. I direct a a lot of criticism against Christian fundies, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, moral relativists, and other groups with perverted ideologies.

Islam is an existential threat, and an ideology of pure evil, and that's why I despise Islam more than anything else.
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  #59  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:50 AM
apple
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
So fundies see no difference between children having sex and adults having sex. Ok.
Do fundies oppose adults having premarital sex or not? There's your answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
I disagree that the belief that children should not be having sex is stupid and unreasonable. Fundies aren't the only ones who believe this. I also disagree that their position on HPV vaccinations for 6th graders is stupid and unreasonable.
First of all, I was talking about the people themselves, they are stupid and unreasonable. So I don't really care that they believe that premarital sex will lead to people roasting in hell forever, as they are stupid and unreasonable. So stop saying "they believe" this, "they believe" that - I DON'T CARE. Come up with arguments, facts and evidence (if you have any), not with the beliefs of unworthy people.

You offer zero arguments in support of your latter position, so it's hereby dismissed. As for the first point, someone must have made it in the imagination, as you'll definitely not find it on this board. Try to maintain an imagination-reality dualism, if at all possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Ok. I'm glad that's your cross to bear.
Not at all, I enjoy having scorn and contempt for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
They don't believe any such thing. They believe young folks damage themselves and others with premarital sex. Some of them believe it because this is the way they interpret their own experiences with premarital sex. Others because they believe the Bible is against it. Others believe for other reasons.
I don't have a problem with it and don't understand why you do.
What Stephen Colbert said about Jesse Jackson applies very much to you. "It's interesting, you can ask him anything, but he's going to say what he wants, the way he wants." The same thing is happening here. I see another attempt by you to divert attention from the real issue at hand, because it could prove to be damaging to fundies.

The issue at hand is not premarital sex, as much as you would like to discourse about it. The issue at hand is whether it is legitimate for fundies to want people who have premarital sex to have a chance of cancer, to deter premarital sex. Stick to that, will you? I want to hear you say that it's legitimate to want people to have a chance of getting cancer for having premarital sex, because "THEY BELIEVE" premarital is a very, very bad thing!

You almost argued that it's legitimate for environmentalists to want people to be blown up by terrorists, in order to deter them from flying, because "THEY BELIEVE" flying is a very, very bad thing. Continue please.
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  #60  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:54 AM
apple
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I really do not understand this extreme objection towards civilized Western people.
Don't worry, I don't object to civilized Western people. Wanting people to get cancer for having premarital sex, in order to deter them from having premarital sex, is not civilized in any definition of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Bill Maher does this type of thing where he gets red in the face about American Christians....and it seems as though he does it in order to be able to attack Islam as well, without being attacked by his fellow travellers.
No, I think he really doesn't like Christian fundies (not "American Christians"). And who can blame him? There's not much to like about them, unless one likes uneducated, ignorant and foolish people who believe anything they're told.
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  #61  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:09 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
OH YEAH? WELL YOU'RE A GIANT DOO DOO HEAD.
and so's his mother.
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  #62  
Old 08-22-2011, 02:41 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
Mr. Friedersdorf pulls the classic "Heads I win, tails Republicans lose" maneuver. He faults Perry for allegedly not having real convictions. But his crocodile tears for conservatives that are bound to be betrayed by a Perry presidency. If Perry hews to a conservative line he gets lambasted for being a rigid ideologue; if he shows a willingness to bend to political reality, he's a mercenary.

This I take as a sign that people on the left are really, really nervous about this guy.

I should say I have no idea who Perry is, stuck here in the Orient. Huntsman was my favorite, and before him Mitch Daniels. I.e., I'm great at picking people who are sure to lose...

Oh, I guess Friedersdorf is claiming to be a libertarian now... Well, I doubt he'll push the button for the Republican in any case.
One of my favorite pundits, Andrew Ferguson over at the Weekly Standard, has a great article on Perry. He seems pretty ambivalent about Perry, (actually more negative then positive), but I feel the article gave me more insight into the guy then anything I've read. I really like Perry's ideological stance as presented by Perry himself in his writings, but he is a very political animal in practice, both in the good way and the bad.

The article confirms something I already suspected about Perry, he doesn't mind taking charge and he loves a fight. I already had this impression from clips like this where he 'sends Romney his love' and blows him a kiss and like this where he pokes a guy in the chest with his finger. I like him.

Oh, and he's been having a little feud with Romney for quite a while now, from before either one of them ever ran for president.

Last edited by whburgess; 08-22-2011 at 02:57 PM..
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  #63  
Old 08-22-2011, 03:07 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
I am not sure I understand your first question. The use of a gun is the same regardless of whether it's supervised or not.

It wasn't being taught how to use the gun that prevented me from using it, but my dad telling me not to.
Yep, the analogy sort of breaks down on several levels. In one case a child is forbidden to do something, (sex, drive the car), that children many times do anyway. In the other the child is permitted, perhaps even encouraged, but only under supervision.
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  #64  
Old 08-22-2011, 04:29 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Agree with Adam RE: Louie
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  #65  
Old 08-22-2011, 05:42 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple View Post
Don't worry, I don't object to civilized Western people. Wanting people to get cancer for having premarital sex, in order to deter them from having premarital sex, is not civilized in any definition of the word.
I wasn't aware that the voluntary immunization against HPV by adults was a hot button issue on the Christian right.

Weren't you railing against the TSA "molesting" people in another thread? That kind of Victorian puritanical attitude doesn't mesh with this beatnik stuff about Christians harshing your buzz when it comes to the relationship between sex and cervical cancer vaccines.


Quote:
No, I think he really doesn't like Christian fundies (not "American Christians"). And who can blame him?
I can blame him. He's a historical illiterate. A modern elite with more mouth than brains.

Quote:
There's not much to like about them, unless one likes uneducated, ignorant and foolish people who believe anything they're told.
You sound like you're upset that they do not genuflect for the same God as you.
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  #66  
Old 08-22-2011, 05:51 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

Quote:
Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
One of my favorite pundits, Andrew Ferguson over at the Weekly Standard, has a great article on Perry. He seems pretty ambivalent about Perry, (actually more negative then positive), but I feel the article gave me more insight into the guy then anything I've read.
Hey, that was a great piece. I thought this section summarized the hypothetical battle fairly well.
Quote:
The Texas Miracle that Perry embraces and Democrats say they loathe would make a presidential contest between the governor and President Obama more interesting than these things usually are. Voters could at last confront the tradeoff they’ve been trying to avoid since the Great Society, maybe since the New Deal. On the one hand, we might have job-generating economic growth with all its necessary disruptions and uncertainties and stark inequalities of income and living standards; on the other, free health insurance, generous labor guarantees, greater income equality, a pristinely regulated natural environment, high unemployment, and declining national wealth.

A majority of American voters may reject the first for the second, as voters have in Europe for half a century. At least in Perry vs. Obama, the choice would be clear. We can be France or we can be Texas.
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  #67  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:23 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Originally Posted by sugarkang View Post
Hey, that was a great piece. I thought this section summarized the hypothetical battle fairly well.
"we can be France or we can be Texas."

Ugh. Like those are the only two options.

And, also, you know- Obama is, if anything, making us slightly more like (say) Illinois or Minnesota than we otherwise were. We are only becoming more like France in the minds of the really insane.
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  #68  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:25 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
"we can be France or we can be Texas."

Ugh. Like those are the only two options.

And, also, you know- Obama is, if anything, making us slightly more like (say) Illinois or Minnesota than we otherwise were. We are only becoming more like France in the minds of the really insane.
Don't be so literal. Think direction rather then destination.

Minnesota is somewhere between France and Texas. From the point of view of France; not very far from Texas. But from the point of view of Texas, Minnesota is in the general direction of France.
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  #69  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:29 PM
apple
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Default Re: Awkward and Excruciating Edition (Adam Serwer & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I wasn't aware that the voluntary immunization against HPV by adults was a hot button issue on the Christian right.
First things first. No matter what diversion you attempt, the words of the fundies themselves condemn them. It upset them that these HPV-vaccines would lessen the chance that people who engage in premarital sex get cancer. Yes, such malevolent views are not reasonable, despite your and whburgess' protestations to the contrary (despite knowing better).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
Weren't you railing against the TSA "molesting" people in another thread? That kind of Victorian puritanical attitude doesn't mesh with this beatnik stuff about Christians harshing your buzz when it comes to the relationship between sex and cervical cancer vaccines.
On this very thread, in fact. And it's not "puritanical" to not want to be groped by random men at the airport (in what would be a criminal offense if anyone but TSA-employees did it), maybe we just have different tastes. It's not puritanical. My other views are also not "beatnik", nor any other appellation that you would want to attach to reasonable views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
I can blame him. He's a historical illiterate. A modern elite with more mouth than brains.
Well, the question was whether one can blame people for disliking the rabid fundies, and the answer to that is clearly 'no', even if you do think that he's a historical illiterate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator View Post
You sound like you're upset that they do not genuflect for the same God as you.
Knowledge? No, I would not wish having allies and friends like these on my worst enemies. The followers of the religious right tend to be uneducated and ignorant, so they will cast an ill light on any cause they are told to attach themselves to by their preachers.
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  #70  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:32 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Originally Posted by whburgess View Post
Don't be so literal. Think direction rather then destination.
If the two options presented were equally close in destination that would make sense. But we are comparing something moving very slightly in the direction of France (which is labeled "France") to something that is exactly all the way to Texas (which is labeled "Texas"). At best, it's a misleading lack of symmetry.

That's why I picked a state. That makes it roughly similar on both sides. But if we want to stick with "France" for Obama, then, let's use the UAE for Perry (no income tax, religiously inspired laws, punitive criminal justice system, rampant cronyism). Since, you know, we're talking about direction not destination.
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  #71  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:36 PM
Sulla the Dictator Sulla the Dictator is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
If the two options presented were equally close in destination that would make sense. But we are comparing something moving very slightly in the direction of France (which is labeled "France") to something that is exactly all the way to Texas (which is labeled "Texas"). At best, it's a misleading lack of symmetry.

That's why I picked a state. That makes it roughly similar on both sides. But if we want to stick with "France" for Obama, then, let's use the UAE for Perry (no income tax, religiously inspired laws, punitive criminal justice system, rampant cronyism). Since, you know, we're talking about direction not destination.
A more accurate state would be Maryland or Vermont.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:37 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
If the two options presented were equally close in destination that would make sense. But we are comparing something moving very slightly in the direction of France (which is labeled "France") to something that is exactly all the way to Texas (which is labeled "Texas"). At best, it's a misleading lack of symmetry.

That's why I picked a state. That makes it roughly similar on both sides. But if we want to stick with "France" for Obama, then, let's use the UAE for Perry (no income tax, religiously inspired laws, punitive criminal justice system, rampant cronyism). Since, you know, we're talking about direction not destination.
I get your point now. You didn't like using France to represent Obama. Good point.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:40 PM
apple
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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UAE for Perry (no income tax, religiously inspired laws, punitive criminal justice system, rampant cronyism).
Finally, someone who isn't awed by one visit to Dubai.
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  #74  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:41 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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"we can be France or we can be Texas."

Ugh. Like those are the only two options.
It is if we're getting to the core ideologies of the two parties. The Democrats have always had Europe envy. If we weren't providing the military for the entire world and our health care wasn't so inefficient, we'd be and actually feel a lot richer than Europeans.
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  #75  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:54 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Finally, someone who isn't awed by one visit to Dubai.
You're a fascinating fellow, apple. Your focus is a wonder to behold.
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  #76  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:57 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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I get your point now. You didn't like using France to represent Obama. Good point.
I aspire to symmetry, in my political analogies, my women, and my sandwiches.
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  #77  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:59 PM
miceelf miceelf is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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It is if we're getting to the core ideologies of the two parties. The Democrats have always had Europe envy. If we weren't providing the military for the entire world and our health care wasn't so inefficient, we'd be and actually feel a lot richer than Europeans.
Sure. And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their a$$es when they hopped.
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  #78  
Old 08-22-2011, 06:59 PM
sugarkang sugarkang is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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Originally Posted by miceelf View Post
If the two options presented were equally close in destination that would make sense. But we are comparing something moving very slightly in the direction of France (which is labeled "France") to something that is exactly all the way to Texas (which is labeled "Texas"). At best, it's a misleading lack of symmetry.

That's why I picked a state. That makes it roughly similar on both sides. But if we want to stick with "France" for Obama, then, let's use the UAE for Perry (no income tax, religiously inspired laws, punitive criminal justice system, rampant cronyism). Since, you know, we're talking about direction not destination.
That's fair. I really didn't think anything of it. I also refer to the Tea Partiers as terrorists holding the debt ceiling hostage without thinking about it too deeply, but I understand why that would be irritating. Though, ideologically, France would be more appropriate for progressives (take any bad intent inferences out). Generous welfare system, paid maternity leave, very egalitarian, low work hours, etc.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:59 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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You're a fascinating fellow, apple. Your focus is a wonder to behold.
He does have a talent for staying on topic, doesn't he?
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  #80  
Old 08-22-2011, 07:01 PM
whburgess whburgess is offline
 
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Default Re: Ah, the old bait and switch..

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I aspire to symmetry, in my political analogies, my women, and my sandwiches.

Ahh. I see. One wonders what you are trying to compensate for.
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