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  #1  
Old 04-06-2011, 10:28 AM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

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  #2  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:26 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Posts: 35
Default Some notes

1. Great to see that this diavlog is as popular as I would have thought.
2. Some of the things B.S. will never tell you about Jon Huntsman is at that link; see the earliest posts first. Neither of the earliest posts are solid gold, but they show why non-elites/non-courtiers should oppose him.
3. Ben Smith has a habit of lying. But, it's the good, elite-friendly kind of lying that won't get him into any trouble.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2011, 06:30 PM
bkjazfan bkjazfan is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

I think it would be interesting to see how Michelle Bachmann does in Iowa if she enters the race. That said the only strong republican candidate would be someone who brings in the independent and tea party voters. That person is not currently listed amongst the 12 or so possible candidates.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2011, 06:57 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkjazfan View Post
I think it would be interesting to see how Michelle Bachmann does in Iowa if she enters the race. That said the only strong republican candidate would be someone who brings in the independent and tea party voters. That person is not currently listed amongst the 12 or so possible candidates.
I think it would be entertaining, if kind of scary, but I'm skeptical that her doing well in Iowa (which wouldn't surprise me) would say much about the eventual race.

I'm also not yet convinced -- but open to argument -- that the Republicans need to do much to appeal to the Tea Party. The Republicans have generally been good at getting their extremes to vote against the Dem, and '12 seems like a race where that will be in play. Can candidates who do appeal to the TP change the dynamic the way people like Tancredo did '08 (by getting mainstream candidates to suck up to them in their claimed positions, but not by avoiding the nomination of their likely least-favored candidate) or can they go farther and actually make a difference in who is nominated?

I think how they get to the latter position is if there's actually a break between the candidates (serious candidates) on substantive issues in a way they all seemed to avoid (through a great deal of generality, among other things) in '08. So far, the main differences between the TP and mainstream Republicans just seems to me to be tone -- the TP likes to focus more on "elitists" and use harsher language -- but perhaps this budget stuff or even foreign policy (though I'm skeptical) will lead to something more. It could be interesting.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2011, 06:50 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

'Spend, spend, spend.....make a 50 $billion cut sound like the great depression. Grow government at the expense of the private sector and unionize all the new public employees. Make them slaves to their union overlords while demonizing their real bosses (taxpayers). Raise taxes and borrow what that doesn't produce and blame George Bush and the Koch brothers for runaway government's self-created problems and oh yeah promote class warfare at every chance' is not "overly-nuanced".
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:28 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harkin View Post
'Spend, spend, spend.....make a 50 $billion cut sound like the great depression. Grow government at the expense of the private sector and unionize all the new public employees. Make them slaves to their union overlords while demonizing their real bosses (taxpayers). Raise taxes and borrow what that doesn't produce and blame George Bush and the Koch brothers for runaway government's self-created problems and oh yeah promote class warfare at every chance' is not "overly-nuanced".
Blah, blah, blah.... slippery slope to totalitarian socialism. Know any new songs?

You people don't know how good you have it right now, you can't imagine the gut wrenching pain of losing the next Presidential election, and if you don't write some new material, your going down, and it's going to be hell.

But for me, it's going to be revenge for '04! Ha!
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  #7  
Old 04-06-2011, 08:38 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by handle View Post
Blah, blah, blah.... slippery slope to totalitarian socialism. Know any new songs?

You people don't know how good you have it right now, you can't imagine the gut wrenching pain of losing the next Presidential election, and if you don't write some new material, your going down, and it's going to be hell.

But for me, it's going to be revenge for '04! Ha!
I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain. The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2011, 09:03 PM
handle handle is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain.
Don't tell Denville.


Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.
Oh I don't know, I just filled out schedule A, and I'm lookin' pretty good. My thing is sustainable capitalism, not just "I got mine and to hell with everyone else". But if you want to keep throwing huge refunds my way.. jokes on you in the long run IMHO.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:09 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.
interesting point.

I suspect that by the end of Obama's second term most liberals will feel about him exactly the way many conservatives feel about GWB - that he was a complete embarrassment and has nothing to do with the ideology of his base.

unfortunately, we won't have the Koch billions to gin-up a corollary to the tea party.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:20 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorn_karate View Post
...

I suspect that by the end of Obama's second term most liberals will feel about him exactly the way many conservatives feel about GWB - that he was a complete embarrassment and has nothing to do with the ideology of his base.
...
I doubt that. Except for the empty wishful assertions of mouthbreathers at the extreme ends of the ideological spectrum, there's really not much to support that.
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  #11  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:35 PM
popcorn_karate popcorn_karate is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AemJeff View Post
I doubt that. Except for the empty wishful assertions of mouthbreathers at the extreme ends of the ideological spectrum, there's really not much to support that.
time will tell. The idea of bush being repudiated by the right in 2004 would have seemed completely far-fetched as well.

as for the insults, you know where you can shove them my fat, furry friend.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2011, 04:46 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorn_karate View Post
time will tell. The idea of bush being repudiated by the right in 2004 would have seemed completely far-fetched as well.

as for the insults, you know where you can shove them my fat, furry friend.
It wasn't aimed directly at you, but if you think the shoe fits...
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  #13  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:00 PM
operative operative is offline
 
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Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain. The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.
In general it takes a lot for incumbents to lose. But keep in mind that at this time in 1991, everyone said that George Bush was unbeatable. Well that worked out real well for him.
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  #14  
Old 04-07-2011, 01:14 AM
bjk bjk is offline
 
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Posts: 45
Default Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)

AB uses admirably few filler and nonce words. Good on him. Nothing weakens an argument as fast as "you know." If I knew why would I be listening to you?
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